To return money or not to return

[geddes]

Appreciate input from fellow members as I am at a loss.  Understand the FOG thing and could not tell the difference.  My story in a nutshell:  had a NPD boyfriend who raped me once when I was trying to break off the relationship.  A year later, he called to check in.  At that time, I became unemployed and was trying to build my business.  However, I was limited by the lack of capital and needing to hold down a very demanding part-time job.  He offered to "gift" me a large sum of money.  We got back together but strange signs started appearing.  He was very vigilant about not having us been seen by anyone.  He bragged about how he had a string of affairs when he was married to his late wife (which I did not know previously).  Since we were in the same profession, he said he wanted me to do a presentation that would help my business but when we passed by his work place where we are suppose to network, he nervously did everything in his power to prevent me from entering the building.  All these signs led me to the suspicion that he had another liaison.  I broke off with him again.  Again a year later, he called to apologize and acted like nothing happened and wanted to see me.  In fact, he wanted to see me to produce a document stating that he has invested in my company with the money he has "gifted" me after an intimate dinner and car ride to his daughter's place.  I declined to dinner and car ride.  I told him that I need to look more closely about producing a document for investors and could not do it the next day.  He insisted that he HAD to do it that day for taxation purposes and that was the ONLY day and time his tax agent could make it.  He lives on the opposite side of the continen except and does not come to my town much except to see his family.  I told him that I am uncomfortable and felt coerced which he accused me of not trusting him.  After I agreed with the truth of "yes, I don't trust you" fact- he got very angry.  I suggested that we should have the conversation in front of a T.  He declined.  Shall I return his "gift" money?  It was initially understood to be a gift for getting back with him.  In fact, a statement that this "check is a gift" for "such and such purpose" has been issued to him by my company.  His rape and bad treatment made me not want to return the gift since I earned every cent of it.  Yet, my conscience tells me it is the right thing to return.  Is my conscience right or am I operating under the mindset of FOG?  You opinions will be most invaluable.  Thank you in advance for your thoughts and time.

[GreenMango]

Geddes,

You sound scared and confused by this man's behavior... .I would be too.  I guess I would be more astonished by his audacity.  I'm sorry you had the misfortune of having contact with him.  I hope this isn't too blunt... .He sounds like a conman.  It also sounds like initially the gift of money was to help him buy forgiveness from you for the assault... .when that didn't work long term he turned the gift into a loan.  He's a sleaze.

Definition of GIFT www.merriam-webster.com

2. something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation

If when he gave you the money it wasn't stipulated as otherwise it's a gift... .you know the beauty of a gift is that it brings joy to both the giver and receiver because it's done out of the kindness of someone's heart.  It comes without strings.

Definition of LOAN www.merriam-webster.com

1 a: money lent at interest

b: something lent usually for the borrower's temporary use

2 a: the grant of temporary use

If he didn't stipulate it was a loan then it was a gift with the hidden intention of creating an obligation.  If he tries to extort you for the money tell him to pound sand... .it was a gift and I think we both know what he really paid for.  Then cut him off, block his number, block FB, etc.  If you acquiese to him and allow him investments rights in your company YOU WILL BE STUCK WITH A PERSON YOU DON'T TRUST.  This doesn't bode well at all.  And, please don't have a conversation with him with a counselor (there is plenty of advice warning against couples counseling for domestic violence or abusive relationships)... .if you feel the need to have a conversation about his gift and non-participation in your company do it with your lawyer and him.

From the very little, and you actually said plenty about him, in the post regarding the nature of your relationship you DO NOT OWE THIS MAN ANYTHING.

 Rape

 Lies repeatedly about the intent and nature of his actions with you

 Displays a huge lack of empathy when you tell him you don't trust him... .Is this guy for real?

 Uses pity as leverage against you

 Tries to exert control by changing the rules midgame.  I'm imagining the gift was sizeable enough that he knew you wouldn't easily be able to pay it back when he came calling thus rendering you almost powerless in options and allowing him to demand ownership in your company.

Geddes, it is FOG and please be careful when you around him because from the minimal contact you have had with him again it seems to come back fast.  I'm very sorry you have to deal with him.  

Sleep easy and your conscience is clear.  I hope you cut him out of your life he sounds dangerous.  I would not meet him alone anymore and refer him to my attorney from here on out... .if he doesn't get the hint then I'd refer him to the police.

-GM

PS He sounds like he's got more going on than BPD.  Be careful.

[2010]

when I was trying to break off the relationship I was raped. A year later, he called to check in.

 

At that time, I was unemployed and trying to build a business.  I was limited by the lack of capital.  He offered to "gift" me a large sum of money.

We got back together. A statement that this "check is a gift" has been issued to him by my company.  

He said he wanted me to do a presentation that would help my business but, he nervously did everything in his power to prevent it.  

I broke off with him again.  

Again a year later, he called to apologize. He wanted me to produce a document stating that he has invested in my company with the money. I told him that I need to look more closely about producing a document.  He insisted that he HAD to do it that day for taxation purposes and that was the ONLY day and time his tax agent could make it.  He lives on the opposite side of the continent and does not come to my town much.

I told him that I felt coerced.  After I agreed with the truth of "yes, I don't trust you" - he got very angry.  I suggested that we should have the conversation in front of a T.  He declined.

His rape and bad treatment made me not want to return the gift since I earned every cent of it.  

Shall I return his "gift" money?  It was initially understood to be a gift for getting back with him.

Geddes, Is it your perception that he coerced you into having sex when you didn’t want to- and you became so outraged that you ended the relationship until he coerced you to see him again with money? And he is not asking for the money back, but merely for a tax receipt as a write-off?

At that time, I was unemployed and trying to build a business.  I was limited by the lack of capital.  He offered to "gift" me a large sum of money.

Since you stated that you were limited in your lack of capital, he provided some capital to you. It appears as though he is not asking for that back- merely proof that he provided it. The money was initially needed by you-so it was accepted by you- for your business.

Just a few thoughts:

The charge of rape is a very serious allegation. A rape is an extreme violation of the mind, body and soul of a human being.

Having said that, you cannot be violated, take money as restitution and then willfully allow yourself to be violated again in the eyes of the law without becoming complicitous. The definition of complicity is an association or participation in a wrongful act- a collusion of sorts. In this case, it is your failure to protect yourself in spite of the evidence of previous harm to you in exchange for money. Taking money for future harm is not restitution, it’s something else.

His rape and bad treatment made me not want to return the gift since I earned every cent of it.

There was a court case about a woman who agreed not to report her daughter’s rape if her rapist paid her $1,000 a month for 10 years. Both the Mother and the Rapist went to jail for collusion. So let’s just say that you weren’t paid “for earning every cent of a rape and bad treatment.”  Instead, you made the “self determination” to take the money that was offered you <<to start your own business.>>

At the time that the money was offered, you were unemployed, and your boyfriend shared the same profession and thought he could help you. In spite of what eventually happened, there were many business conversations and planning sessions with him.

As you stated, he acted as though he did nothing wrong concerning the assault.  Legally, restitution requires a guilty party to pay back any expenses to the agency who sheltered, fed, clothed and cared for you after the assault. Of course, there would have been a charge filed. If there wasn't and the guilty party doesn’t think they did anything wrong- they certainly wouldn’t consider the money as restitution.

*They would however, consider the money as incentive.* That money was an investment in your business and needs to be treated as such. Do you feel coerced into allowing him to claim the money as a tax write-off because you will also need to claim the money as income?

If you feel uncomfortable by declaring capital as income, then you need to give the money back to him and call it a day.  

[ellil]

Invested in your company? Hmmm. Is there an agreement that he is a stockholder, shareholder, or partner? A gift isn't necessarily an investment.

That being said, I'd return the money in a heartbeat if I had it. This will close that open door that he can use as an excuse to enter into your life at will. And if I had extra extra money, I'd return it to him with reasonable interest--then tell him you'll issue a 1099 INT to irritate him. Kidding. I'd do NOTHING that would irritate him.

So yeah, I'd return the money for sure just so he can't use it to contact me.

(And BTW, I am a hypocrite, considering I still have a very expensive pair of my ex's shoes. I just don't know how to return them without rocking the boat. I'm afraid to return them with a note, return them without a note, throw them out, or keep them for the rest of my life! LOL.)

M