To contact or not to contact - the question from the BPD viewpoint.

[Marii]

I have noticed something the longer I am on this board.

On the one hand, we have persons that post and talk about how much they miss the ex pwBPD, want to contact them, give in and do contact them etc.

Then we have others who rant if their ex tries to make contact with them.

Sometimes when I read these posts, I am left thinking, hmmmm, is this the pot calling the kettle black? Is there a little bit of BPD in some of these scorned ex's that post?

If I was a person w/BPD, I would be thinking - well, do they want me to call them or will they rant at me if I do? Kind of a mixed message for people who aren't exactly good at reading messages anyway.

[BlushAndBashful]

It sounds like the two groups are in totally different camps- usually it's either/or.

The other two combinations probably wouldn't post on this board- wanting to hear and getting contact, and not wanting any contact from the ex and getting just that.

[neil]

It's more complex than that, I think, and every situation is unique.  I'm still in love with my ex unBPD girlfriend.  I invested my whole heart in that relationship and frankly right now I feel completely crushed.  After doing something so unforgivable that we couldn't possibly go on, she's been texting me  telling me how deeply she loves me, how desperately she wants me back, how I live inside her... .

Rationally, I know how unhealthy it is for me to read these messages, yet I crave them... .Part of me is so desperate to believe that she misses me with the same hunger that I miss her.  I'm sure she knows how painful this cycle is for me... .yet she perpetuates it. 

So, in short, it's possible to hate your ex for the contact, yet desperately want it at the same time.

God, I'm a mess.

[BlushAndBashful]

I'm not arguing with you. I'm mostly in the "oh I wish he would call and miss me as much as I miss him" group. For months (years?) I begged and prayed for contact.

Now, I realize that even if I 100% wanted to make it work... .it couldn't. It just couldn't. Learning about BPD and analyzing everything that has transpired-- it's a bit like "what has been seen cannot be unseen".  There's the crap that's unforgiveable (adultery), there's the stuff that would be extremely hard to work on (forgiving for painting me black for years, lying, etc), and then there's "it is what it is"- icky FOO crap of his, emotional incest of his children, the fact that he routinely falls in bed with his female best friend, etc.

A huge part of me would love for him to contact me, so I could chew his butt for being such a jerk. I'm not even going to try to pretend that that's healthy.

I was understanding the question that the same person who longed for contact suddenly got mad because of said contact. I may have misunderstood.

[C12P21]

His initial contact with me was testing the waters to see if he could still toy with my emotions and I think there was a part of him that wanted to remain friends.

It was me that couldn't, I knew it was not healthy in the least to allow someone on friends basis after such a brutal breakup and infidelity.

I never raged at him, I asked why a lot, explained how hurt I was by what he had said, gave my point of view. It was all a mistake and only hurt me more in the long run. He never apologized and mocked me.

When I finally told him he was mistake... I made a mistake trusting him for he was an abuser, he threatened me with a restraining order. This was after we had exchanged emails. I hit a nerve calling him an abuser... so after that, no more contact.

But I did receive poems over the years, unaddressed return mail and unsigned.

I did not feel rage, just sadness for him the disorder, the whole mess, my love for him.

I blocked everything, and he wrote and said "you must really hate me"

NC

He sent another unsigned, unaddressed letter "please come find me, I need you"

NC

One year after no contact I sent an email expressing my regret for contacting him when I was so emotionally distraught, that I had been in therapy and realized our relationship was a combo of both of our dysfunction, that I had issues too and I was addressing them, thanked him for the happy times of our relationship, told him there was components of emotional abuse by him that I needed to address, but for the most part was very happy. Then I stated, this is not to undo the damage I have done, it is only to express my regret and to apologize for my behavior in seeking validation of my emotional pain. I needed to have addressed my confusion in therapy. I told him there was no need to contact me, I had no desire to initiate a friendship, just wanted to say, it took two to tango (not quite that way). Wished him a good life.

His response, "you cannot undo the what you have done, it is not an option."

Hmmm, well, I pretty much said that in the email but I realize he needed to reject me one last time as he took my email as abandoning him again.

It didn't hurt, given what I know now.

Anyway, long story, sorry.

I think the contact is hard because there is no reasonable closure, and particularly if they have left you devastated in one form or another, be it financially, emotionally, whatever.

I think what we hope for is an adult apology where they take responsibility for their behavior, express regret for how they hurt you, and realize their actions were hurtful. But this kind of awareness and actions are the characteristics of a mentally healthy person. And that is the error of our thinking, that we are going to receive any kind of healthy response or communication from our disordered partner.

Given the intensity of the bond, and the difficulty I had working to free myself from the strings that tied me to him, I realize he cannot do this, it is too much work.

Thanks for listening.

C

[2010]

Sometimes when I read these posts, I am left thinking, hmmmm, is this the pot calling the kettle black? Is there a little bit of BPD in some of these scorned ex's that post?

Yes. Borderlines do post every now and then on the forum and naturally, they project disordered thoughts in their posts. Narcissists also post angrily about punishing their lost "object" and espouse seeking revenge. Since people with personality disorders don't know that their thinking is disordered, they may be unwilling or unable to see other people's points of view.  In some cases, feedback on this board is the closest thing to a reality check that they will get, especially concerning their fantasy revenge or game playing.

If these posts trigger you uncomfortably, that's a good thing. They are showing you a side of "splitting" that is a defense mechanism used by cluster B personalities that is a wall against and/or preventing abandonment depression. You'll meet these defensive personalities everywhere in life. People are thought (by them) to be either all good or all bad, and depending on the BPD/NPD disorder, the partner serves as an extension of the all good or all bad pathological space- but never as a separate individual.

Since this enmeshment is a disordered thought process about attachments, the result is that the partner of those with NPD/BPD always fails to meet the "all good"- and it's necessary for a cluster B person to split off the failed attachment (into all bad) in order to protect themselves (their ego) from injury. Most of us go through this in the aftermath of a failed relationship but those that cannot break free from it are pathological in their disordered thought.

For everyone else, the aftermath of a failed relationship will be one of sorrow and loss, with the reality that two people cannot become one forever and ever. We must lead independent lives. This reality must be felt as abandonment depression and then grieved. With all it's painful ache, life is a learning experience as a solo entity. We only come together briefly with others and then we must let them go if they are unhealthy in mind and action. With acceptance comes the freedom to love and to try again.

[1brokenwing]

C,

This is SO profound! Thank you.  I'm six months pristine NC and this will easily carry me another 6!

"I think what we hope for is an adult apology where they take responsibility for their behavior, express regret for how they hurt you, and realize their actions were hurtful. But this kind of awareness and actions are the characteristics of a mentally healthy person. And that is the error of our thinking, that we are going to receive any kind of healthy response or communication from our disordered partner. "

[C12P21]

For everyone else, the aftermath of a failed relationship will be one of sorrow and loss, with the reality that two people cannot become one forever and ever. We must lead independent lives. This reality must be felt as abandonment depression and then grieved. With all it's painful ache, life is a learning experience as a solo entity. We only come together briefly with others and then we must let them go if they are unhealthy in mind and action. With acceptance comes the freedom to love and to try again. Doing the right thing

Very well said, thank you.

You are welcome 1BW, my hope is others will be spared what I put myself and my disordered partner through. Grief is a part of the process when a relationship ends but the extent of the grief is compounded when there is verbal abuse, mental cruelty and well... .mind games. I had to look at me in order to let go of him, and to understand why I felt such an intense bond with him. No matter how much I tried to intellectualize the experience, I couldn't think through the pain, the only way I healed was to allow myself to grieve. For awhile I believed he was a psychopath, given my experience with him earlier in my life, and some of the things he said to me during the relationship was chilling. As I look back, I realize my deepest fears were not about him, but more due to my fathers abuse of me. My ex's behavior was very cruel but the depth of pain I experienced was not so much about him, but my relationship with my FOO.  My father was a psychopath... and up until the end of the relationship, I had not allowed myself to accept this, or understood how my fathers abuse of me left residues of toxic shame in me. When the relationship ended, boom, there I was, feeling like a three year old and howling. This experience broke down walls I had built in childhood and there was no turning back.

What he (ex) did and how he treated me in the end was just plain awful, but what was worse was I wasn't healthy enough to accept there was something  wrong with him to have treated me this way. I kept returning to the person that abused me to seek relief from my pain... and that was not his fault that I did this, it was my responsibility to work it out on my own. The regret I had was it took so long to realize this, because the bond I felt for him was intense... .I couldn't accept he was not attached or bonded to me, I knew this intellectually, but not emotionally. My problem was I lacked the clarity and self respect to simply not reopen the wound with him, every time I contacted him or begged for closure.

I had to realize learning to love and understand myself was the bigger priority before I could let him go, and then I had to accept that for awhile I was going to feel real lousy. His last comment to me is fine, there is no going back, I cannot undo what I have done, and I accept this is what he needed to say to me. The best part of finding closure is finding forgiveness and moving on.

C

[suz124w]

CP12,

It is uncanny how much your words reflect my own experience with my ex. The bonding, the intensity, the manipulation, culminating in the final rupture peppered with verbal abuse (the words may be different but the message was the same).  Me going back to revisit the pain, trying to rationalise, intellectualising everything but never able to soothe the pain. Fortunately for me (in a way), the words were so hurtful in the end that I just COULD not go on, I knew it would damage me irreversibly and maybe lead to a complete breakdown.

I found that I could almost send your last email to your ex to mine and it would stand up!  But I have resolved NEVER to go back, NEVER to try to get closure from him, NEVER to harbour any illusions about the relationship and the state of his mental wellbeing.  Going back even as friends is not an option.  It is playing with fire and I do not need it.  I am not running away, I am protecting myself.  AT LAST!

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying this is not painful still because it is.  3 months of NC and still counting but I know there is a whole world out there and if I address all my own issues now, I will be in a much better place to enjoy my life to the full without being shackled to a person who through no fault of their own is undoubtedly disordered.  I am past bitterness and definitely edging towards acceptance but a condition of that is to stay on the straight and narrow and let go of this relationship completely.

[Hamakua]

When asked in my intro thread I knew the "ambassadors" were seeking my understanding of the different boards, what they meant, and sort of guiding me to state where I belong by asking me, essentially "what do you want?".  I interpreted this as "do you want to go to the L4 staying together board, or the L3 splitting board".

I replied, essentially, "depends which part of me you ask."

I agree with an above poster, "it's more complicated than that", and it is.  I have been through cycles a few times, and even within the cycle I have had different wants and desires.  I understand both the logical and emotional pros and cons of any combination of wanting contact, not wanting, wanting to contact, not wanting, whatever.  And that's just for me.

Girl just smiled at me at [insert location] my esteem and "hope" of being independent is bolstered and I probably don't even think of my UexBPDgf for the next few days or something.  My best bud's sister calls to ask if I am RSVPing 1 or 2 place settings at their wedding in October, cue 7 years of hindsight regret, self blame, and melancholy.  Wake in the middle of the night to a full moon breaking through my blinds and I may dial all but the last digit of her number.

I can tell you one BPD trait, thinking that answers have a black/white strict dichotomy.

[Edit]

I can tell you right now how I feel.  I know "my replacement" and her are currently on an out of state trip, (she was sure to let everyone I know, know, so I know). to the place I was planning on visiting to "get away".  Imagine that, 50 other states and within the month that she is dating someone new, and at the time I was planning the trip, she so happens to be headed to the same state I was.  My excuse is that its the motorcycling capital of the world (in a sense, N.C., tail of the dragon, aka Deals gap).  Hers?  No idea, didn't ask, don't want to know, no matter how much she wishes I would know, I suspect so she can mentally bolster herself by saying "see, I can be happy with someone that isn't you, how does that make you feel?".  Maybe just validation for herself from someone she spent 7 years with.

Anyway, I can tell you what I would want in my current frame of mind.  I want the fortitude and courage to NC (not the state) that inevitable email that I predict will come sometime between Thanksgiving and New Years.   3 proximal holidays that mean nothing but growing as a couple for her and her new "replacement".  Which means if they grow together too well, she will get spooked and cold feet, shun and run.  They grow together too slow/poorly, she thinks about what we had and how "perfect" we were together.  It's coming, as sure as the sun will rise and the tides will dance with the moon's lead.  It's coming.

So right now I constantly think about what will I do when it comes, what are my options, -check out my L1 intro to get some back story and my perspective.

[sm15000]

Since people with personality disorders don't know that their thinking is disordered, they may be unwilling or unable to see other people's points of view.  In some cases, feedback on this board is the closest thing to a reality check that they will get, especially concerning their fantasy revenge or game playing.

Do reality checks - communicated in a supportive, non-angry but direct way - ever get through?  I have noticed that part of DBT seems to be to challenge (in a supportive way)their disordered thinking.

[FannyB]

Just stumbled across this old post and thought it may be worth resuscitating with a new audience given the amount of posts about 'contact' recently.

Fanny

[Beach_Babe]

Great idea, Fanny.  I think contact can go either way, depending on their mood. Its a crapshoot, and for the response to be positive the pwBPD has to be desperate. The new partner is not all they had hoped, or perhaps there is no one at the moment. They feel needy, bored and alone. You will be painted white, and seen as  new supply. If this can still be obtained somewhere else (i.e: things going good with new person/job, idealizing new partner ect ) then you will most likely be treated with scorn and contempt. Indifference, in this case, would be the best you can hope for.  The question for the non, then, would be: "am I healed enough to roll those dice?"  It truly is a personal decision.

[landj]

As I go through my own self inquiry, confusion and pain, I realise more and more the cumulative wisdom of this website is my greatest tool for healing. Thank you all.

[fromheeltoheal]

Borderlines are all about attachments, that fusing of psyches to make one whole person out of two, someone to 'complete' them.  So if a relationship has ended and a borderline continues to attempt contact, in order to soothe emotions, which was our role, our purpose, to begin with, doesn't matter what their current situation is, if there's an emotion that needs to be soothed we might pop up on the radar as a potential soother, regardless of how things were left or if we've talked recently.  And any emotional response from us, even if it's negative like anger, will indicate to a borderline that an attachment is still in place, which is good news, so the attempts may continue.

Now us?  Looking at that is where the growth is.  Why would I want to contact someone who was repeatedly abusive, disrespectful and unfaithful to me?  What is that drive about, when my head, sanely and soberly, is 100% sure that person needs to be out of my life for good?  Why the urge?  Family of origin issues, like feeling unloved as a child and then getting addicted to trying to get love, and mistaking that trying for love?  Feelings of inferiority, and if I just had one more chance I could prove I was good enough?  A desire for closure, because otherwise in my head I'm stuck and I can't move forward with life?  Feelings of insecurity, like yes that person treated me like crap, but I don't like me enough to believe that someone else could possibly be attracted to me, so unless I settle for someone like that I'll die alone?  There's real meat there, and one upside is when we really start digging the focus shifts away from our exes and towards us, and we get busy building that bright future.  Even a journey of a thousand miles starts with one step.

[Beach_Babe]

That has not been my personal experience.  As both the child and ex of pwBPDs,  a positive response has always been dependent on emotional state.  Its about supply and demand: if they already have someone (or something) to idealize, they would turn to that person (not you) for soothing. Its nothing personal, you simply do not serve a purpose and will be treated accordingly.  If circumstances change, however, so may their "need" for you. Sorry if it sounds harsh but its the truth. They do not think like us.

[fromheeltoheal]

Yes, we're saying pretty much the same thing Beach.  During the idealization stage everything is rosy for a borderline, a new fantasy that hasn't had a reality wake-up call yet, so we may not hear, but as soon as that wears off we might.  Or in the case of my ex, someone who's been left many, many times, the worst thing that can happen to a borderline, abandonment, she learned to always have multiple attachments going, so if one left it hurt less, and an attachment was never truly dead in her head.