Owning whats mine

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Owning what's mine... .huh?  What does that mean.  I'm not talking about a car, house or material possessions.  Owning my part in the dysfuction.

Part of acceptance is understanding both parts.  It takes two to make a couple and to do that tango.  It's really easy to get stuck in the paralysis of analysis on BPD, but that's only half the story.  Acceptance also means accepting we have screwed up too or struggle with our own issues.

So I'm asking what is your part?  No shame or judgments here.  Getting honest with ourselves and owning our part.

One of my parts, I was horrible at validating.  Plain and simple the more I thought this is illogical the more resistant I was to validating.  I thought and said "that makes absolutely no sense".  My empathy got less and less and I knew it.  I know this fed the problem now because I'm pretty sure nobody likes to be told they are crazy... .especially if the feel like it anyways.

Another part, I let myself get to the point I was so angry I lashed out.  Instead of just leaving when I could have the first time.

So what can you own up to?

[GreenMango]

Owning what's mine... .huh?  What does that mean.  I'm not talking about a car, house or material possessions.  Owning my part in the dysfuction.

Part of acceptance is understanding both parts.  It takes two to make a couple and to do that tango.  It's really easy to get stuck in the paralysis of analysis on BPD, but that's only half the story.  Acceptance also means accepting we have screwed up too or struggle with our own issues.

So I'm asking what is your part?  No shame or judgments here.  Getting honest with ourselves and owning our part.

One of my parts, I was horrible at validating.  Plain and simple the more I thought this is illogical the more resistant I was to validating.  I thought and said "that makes absolutely no sense".  My empathy got less and less and I knew it.  I know this fed the problem now because I'm pretty sure nobody likes to be told they are crazy... .especially if the feel like it anyways.

Another part, I let myself get to the point I was so angry I lashed out.  Instead of just leaving when I could have the first time.

So what can you own up to?

[spark2]

I developed less and less empathy and never validated when it was over the top of what I was use to in even the most unsettling situations.

When I was with her I didnt know she was BPD, so when I was telling my friends and family members about some of the crazy stuff going on at home, they thought she was some kind of a grifter or a criminal plotting to steal from me. My lawyer even thought as much. This made me view her in a very odd and distant way which made me even less empathic on top of everything else.

At the time I didn't get it because if she was a grifter she was a bad one.

Now post relationship finally understanding BPD, I get everything that was a mystery for months.

Now in NC I have the most clear and effective empathy.

[spark2]

See she knows she has BPD tho. She has been diagnosed and has admitted in in past relationships. Never would admit it with me. I even asked once.

If she would have told me about it up front, I could have learned about it and really made things alot easier. I was already doing enough however.

[Nomanzland]

Hindsight is a good thing; I really had no idea of the depth of BPD while I was in the thick of it and still have a lot to learn. Maybe I could have reacted differently, but yes, I had/have issues of my own that I am really only now facing, one of them being willing to take on the FOG to keep the fragile peace.

Now no longer enabling him to control me, and he is painting me black all over. He emails with hooks, and it feels like there is a tsunami of anger just waiting to roll if I give him the go ahead.

A lifetime of being a people pleaser, and now at age 45, i'm beginning to grow up a little

[talithacumi]

Like you, GM, I couldn't validate what he was feeling if it was irrational or didn't make sense to me ... .I let myself get really angry and lash out rather than just walk away/leave pretty much every time I got frustrated with the way he responded to my demands that he MAKE more sense ... .and I very vindictively withheld as much empathy, sympathy, understanding as I could when this happened as well.

I was horribly embarassed/ashamed of the things I said/did when we argued - and tried to "fix" this problem "he" created for me by doing everything I could to avoid having an argument with him in the first place. If that didn't work, I'd end the argument by "pulling out the big guns" and tell him I wanted out of the relationship.

In retrospect, I was very controlling. What I was doing was really passive-aggressive, self-serving, abusive, and demeaning. I said/did things that made him need me more than having BPD already did because there was more security for ME in being needed for what I HAD to do for him (fix, rescue, care) than in being loved for the person I was.

Ugh!

I have SO much to work on!

[GreenMango]

Thank you all for sharing, realizing there is a problem is half the solution.  I know it's an easy path for me to think because of the BPD I did this or that.  Easy to rationalize/justify our part instead of just saying I did this or that, I have this issue or that... .it's hard not to feel victimized in this to some degree and take ownership.

Here's what I understand if when I engaged in this I was healthy, had reasonable boundaries and the requisite skills there is no way I would have even continued this relationship.  I would shut it down at 3 months. Period.

The reason I didn't wasn't because of BPD it was because of me.  Things I needed to work on way before I even met this person but hadn't had the extreme lesson of what can happen when two people with matching, compatible problems can look like.

So I ask again to others, without the referencing BPD as a cause or justification, what do you own?

[zoso80]

GreenMango,

Great topic.

I own the following things in my past poor decisions:

- Expecting rather than communicating.

- Jumping into an intimate relationship without building a foundation first

- When things aren't going well, sticking my head in the sand thinking 'It'll get better.'

- Refusing to go couples counseling. I'd given up, yet still hung on.

- Refusing to listen to my intuition, instead stubbornly staying when it obviously wasn't working

- Continuing to stay when I'd reached a threshold of near hate

- Poor self esteem, that I have to settle for someone instead of seeking a healthy match

- Losing sight of the forest for the tree, allowing myself to lose sight of the big picture

- Not listening to family and friends when told a part of me is 'dying.'

- Being reactive rather than proactive

- Ignoring the fact that I wasn't smiling anymore

- Expressing my harsh judgement when it made things worse.

- That emotional intensity and flowerly language by themselves are not reasons to jump into a r/s

- The inability to recognize fundamental incompatibility

I've spent almost 2 years working through all these. Trying to get to a healthier place. Might be dating again soon, so it's time to put all that work and introspection to good use!

So I ask again to others, without the referencing BPD as a cause or justification, what do you own?

[careman]

I'm struggling with focus. Still after 5 months, I tend to analyse her and read all about BPD, posting here and reading posts and lessons and all BPD nitty-gritties.

Driven to 'understand' what seems intrinsically incomprehensible I get stuck.

It seems to me that 'understanding' is something i want to provide too, in the r/s and people in general. This entails listening/placeting/understanding her/BPD/others, and upon that delivering what she/them wants/needs.

I don't know, feeling confused. What is there for me to own?

[Surnia]

Mine is:

I did not trust my feelings/observations. I was often so frustrated about our communication. Someting was wrong, very wrong. But it was so normal for me that SO knows what is better for me, what I should do, what I should not to do. Sometimes I felt little angry, but I took it not serious enough. Therefore I did not recognize how immense the verbal abuse was.

I was not aware how bad I felt. I get used to it. I eat over it. What I have learnt from my FOO: Be patient, be quiet, do not complain AND DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT CHANGES! WE DO NOT CHANGE.

There may be other "ownings" or the same in variations, these 2 are on the top this morning and they make me   

Surnia

[nobody]

OUCH!

This one hurts.  Hit me like a ton of bricks. I have been so keyed in on what SHE did that I barely recognized what I did. It isnt pretty.

Like Zoso, I EXPECTED her to act a certain way instead of COMMUNICATING  what my needs were.

I didnt  practice Sympathy, Empathy or Listening... .only until it was too late.

I let MY way of thinking interfere with considering the relationship.

I let my ANGER  take over. Not good. Lashed out.

I didnt refuse couples counseling.  I went and wanted to continue. I didnt read good books the counselor said to read, like " The Solo Partner" and " The High Conflict Couple". If I had, I might still be with her.

I was more REACTIVE than PROACTIVE. Focused on myself rather than  her.

Poor self esteem... .I didnt set boundaries until it was way too late. I didnt communicate them effectively.

Letting Fear, Obligation, and Guilt(FOG) get the best on me.

Passive-Aggressive tendencies on my part.

I realize that I need a lot of work on myself. I have some deep hurts that go way back into my past that I have always felt, but have not dealt with. These, combined with her BPD, and her also very damaged  teenaged daughter, made for a terrible combination.

nobody

[HowPredictable]

In retrospect, I was very controlling. What I was doing was really passive-aggressive, self-serving, abusive, and demeaning. I said/did things that made him need me more than having BPD already did because there was more security for ME in being needed for what I HAD to do for him (fix, rescue, care) than in being loved for the person I was.

This was me, too.  I let myself get dragged into a power-struggle, and one that was purely ego-driven on my part.  I know I have these tendencies anyway, and that they don't foster healthy relationships with others.  But what I didn't realize until AFTER solving the BPD part of the puzzle was that my particular "brand" of power struggle involved pushing all his dysfunctional buttons (e.g. threatening to leave him or date others, giving him the silent treatment for a day or so, etc).  Childish, yes.   But also uniquely suited to perpetuating the dyfunctional push-pull with a BPD.   Which it certainly did... .and for far too long.

[GreenMango]

Out of my own frustration I also got involved in the power struggle.  I didn't have healthy mature relationship skills to resolve conflict appropriately. I exhausted myself with it, by the time I could have done something I was too tired.

And I blamed.  The disorder became my scapegoat in a lot of ways.  

It has been a lot of work on myself since and still work.

I'm struggling with focus. Still after 5 months, I tend to analyse her and read all about BPD, posting here and reading posts and lessons and all BPD nitty-gritties.

Driven to 'understand' what seems intrinsically incomprehensible I get stuck.

It seems to me that 'understanding' is something i want to provide too, in the r/s and people in general. This entails listening/placeting/understanding her/BPD/others, and upon that delivering what she/them wants/needs.

I don't know, feeling confused. What is there for me to own?

Careman

It can be really hard to look back if you are still grieving and at the beginning of the detachment process.  Sometimes the pain is too strong... .its a process.  As things get clearer you will be able to see your part.  It takes some time working through your feelings.

[careman]

GreenMango !

Thank you

/Careman

[lessonslearned]

I definitely could have been a lot better at validating and empathizing. I often let my own fears of abandonment get in the way of my empathy for her.

I remember her telling me one night that she had been awake all night crying and afraid to wake me because I had set a boundary a while earlier about starting heavy conversations when we were falling asleep (something she liked to do). I assured her that if she needed to talk, we could get up out of bed so I could focus, but that we needed to sleep when it was time to sleep. Because she had been crying all night, I felt like she was one step away from dumping me (which she ended up being) and therefore I was threatened by that because of the sense that I was about to be abandoned. Because of that I booked us our first (and only) T session together, at which we both committed to working things out together. During the same session I said "I'm not sure she's the one any more, because she's always picking fights etc etc." A week later she was gone, and didn't want to work on it... .and I wonder why she felt like she'd be abandoned?

Also, when she was freaked out about marriage (she wanted it and I was merely "open to it" - a huge red flag for her - which became a non-negotiable), I kept arguing logic with her, rather than validating her experience, which seemed crazy to me. This did nothing but push her away and show her how far apart we were on the topic.

Also - we played a stupid game where we pretended to run into each other after breaking up. "Hey how are you, you look great - glad to see you're happy" etc... .God knows why we did this. We always laughed - little did I know how predictive it was. Scary, and very very painful to look at.

Also - I liked feeling like the hero she cast me as. I felt invincible and proud, a full man giving her experiences that made her happy. I was rescuing. It gave me validation. It gave me purpose. It took my focus off the issues with my direction in life, and low self esteem, and my own life path. I bought into her idealization, which was completely narcissistic of me. I was the strong response to all of the wrongs that previous men had wrought upon her. I was the Knight.

I really struggle with this, (I'm crying now) and my own B&W thinking - for example, would we still be together if I had been better at this? Should I let her know how sorry I am that I wasn't better able to hear her? This is the danger in owning - it wants us to fix it and make it right

She said at the end - "we have the same wounds." She was right.

Damn this hurts - what do we do with it? could we have saved things? could we go back now and repair them?

My sense is that if I went back with this, she would agree with all of it, and see it as my fault that it didn't work. That's HER side.

[GreenMango]

LL it is painful. Sometimes that regret when looking back can be consuming.  But please know this thread is about our part.  We can't take responsibility for the other half... .there in lies rub.  For it to have worked it would have had to be both parties working on it.  Our 50% won't make up for the 100% needed to make these relationships healthy or functional.

The real purpose of this thread is to own our stuff so the rest of our relationships benefit from us taking responsibility and so we don't make the same mistakes.

Hang in there    this person doesn't hold the key to your happiness.

[lessonslearned]

You're right - and the real clincher is this - I wanted to keep working on it, and perhaps could have learned WITH her what I've learned without her. She wanted no part in continuing to work on it, despite saying how much she loved me how committed she felt to sorting through things, and that I was her best friend the day before. There was no ownership on her part - she left saying that simply her triggers were just her discomfort with things about me not fitting with what she's looking for. See ya. Next... .

[zoso80]

GM,

I don't blame the disorder these days either. Instead, I look at it as two people that never found a healthy balance. That lack of balance caused reactions out of me weren't pretty. The BPD explains a bit, but in the end it's two people and how they interacted and brought out unpleasant things, that must be learned from.

One might propose that even possessing healthy conflict resolution skills, a relationship with a BPD will be a tough road. My thought here, is while we have a template of expectations about how intimate relationships are to function, the BPD often being a creature of mirroring and ever shifting sands won't be able to honor what in many cases might resolve conflict effectively. With an impulse driven nature and likely poor relationship skills themselves and you have a recipe for a whole bunch of unresolved issues.

In my case, I felt talking about things never yielded any improvement.  She'd agree, we'd plan forward then she'd continue doing what she wanted behind my back. When I caught on, there'd be conflict. This induced the frustration because simply put, one cannot have a future with someone who doesn't work together as a unit with.

I did make several attempts at outlining what I wanted and needed. Would it had been effective with someone who wasn't disordered? Maybe, maybe not. It's up to me to make sure this time it's either understood or it's ok for me to say, 'this person isn't what makes me feel happy, so it's best to stop dating.'

Through vigilance, understanding and awareness, it's up to me to not repeat these same variables that caused such misery. I own my V.U.N.

Out of my own frustration I also got involved in the power struggle.  I didn't have healthy mature relationship skills to resolve conflict appropriately. I exhausted myself with it, by the time I could have done something I was too tired.

[Slowlybutsurely]

I've gone over my role in the relationship many times, and I think I've arrived at a bit of clarity. For the first six months after it ended, I couldn't let go of the idea that somehow it was really mostly 'me' that caused the failure of the relx. That's what the ex said, and it was hard not to believe her. With lots of thinking and processing, I don't see things that way anymore, though I do realize more clearly what my failures actually were.

I'd say these are at the top of the list:

1. Doubting my own judgment too much. Had I not done this, I would have seen that there was a serious problem more rapidly (no clue about BPD till it was over).  I kept second guessing myself, and trying to analyze away the problems.

2. Rescuing a damsel in distress. It's hard for me not to do this, but I won't do it again.

3. Putting up with crazy dynamics, and continuing to think that things would change, no matter how many times they didn't change. I broke up with her almost 20 times. Yeah. I don't regret the breakups; I regret the almost 20 times I got back together with her. How could I have not seen this was a problem?

4. Engaging in magical thinking that things would get better, and we'd live happily ever after, despite all evidence to the contrary. I was pretty desperate, in hindsight. I'm not going to enter into a relationship again unless I feel strong and happy in myself.

5. Looking to someone else to fill in some of the gaps in my life. The ex had qualities that I didn't at the time. I've since worked to develop them in myself rather than obsess about her and feel I've lost out because I've lost her.

Those are some of the big ones. If I had known about BPD then, it would have changed some of the ways that I behaved, but it would not have changed the outcome, so I am finally at peace with that. That was a huge hurdle in my healing to overcome. It tormented me to no end.

Best to you all.  Hi!

[truly amazed]

Ouch,

I had defective boundaries and allowed things to happen to me that never should have.

I was a doormat at times, No most of the time. I should have walked many times.

I failed to stand up and yes I didn't even raise my voice thinking love would make it better or patience , mistake. I know if I bit back it wouldn't have made the situation any better and likely worse but I would have enforced a boundary which was lacking.

I was naive to accept stories of abuse in her past which were not true.

I tried to change or help someone change in a relationship when it was not possible or even should ever be attempted. Never knew about BPD of course.

I forgave far too easily despite things that never ever should have been forgiven without change.

I desperately wanted things to work, and as such allowed the big picture of reality slip past and stayed in a relationship which was not mutual respect, patience kindness shown both sides. It was abusive and I still stayed. The pavlovian dog syndrome intermitted rewards and misplaced concept of love.

I loved being idolized as we were in the honeymoon and this new aspect of my life made it hard to detach and always wanted it to go back there and it did briefly but I was addicted to it eventually !

I am a protector by nature vs a white knight and my own upbringing made me what I am, but allowed this to get skewed by a flaw in my own makeup and presented time and time again with the damsel in distress that needed protecting did not see it was a fabrication of rubbish.


Lots of others but after that skin peel enough for the high points :}

[RUkidding]

Setting little or no boundaries especially early on escalating instead of deescalating disagreements.

[GreenMango]

I had poor boundaries too.  Learned from childhood with a mentally ill parent.  Avoidance was much safer than dealing with dangerous mood swings.

Cool thing is we can work on those and it improves our life.

Thank you all for responding I know it hurts.  The OUCH factor and all.

Keep it coming.

[paytonfan86]

1. Betraying my own judgment, over and over and over

2. Believing I could "fix" her

3. Enabling her

4. Staying far too long

5. Failing to recognize a disorder

[andywho]

I had poor boundaries too.  Learned from childhood with a mentally ill parent.  Avoidance was much safer than dealing with dangerous mood swings.

Cool thing is we can work on those and it improves our life.

Thank you all for responding I know it hurts.  The OUCH factor and all.

Keep it coming.

Awesome thread GM. Could just as well been on the staying boards.

After joining this board i have started to see that there sure is something i bring to the table too. Im just struggling to pinpoint what.

Was something you said in this post that might bring me on to something.

Avoidance was much safer than dealing with dangerous mood swings.

My father was an alcoholic and what i quote from you there was also a way for me to cope and get trough the days when they where at its worse.

He drank himself to death at an age of 47 13 years ago. Might i have some unresolved issues there.

Im gonna a take a schema test that someone on the board recommended to me. I really have to look into this.

Thanks.


Andy

[GreenMango]

Andy thanks for providing a segway here.  Part of owning our stuff is looking deeper into why we do things and our own faulty patterns or emotional immaturity.

Acknowledging it and working on it helps us to have better relationships.  This is why the L5/L6 boards are here.  To attend to ourselves and our issues.  Because not everything is about BPD.  

So I'd like to encourage anyone wrestling with their own issues who has identified some to post them on Inventory and talk about it more.

But keep it coming here too... .this is a good first pass at them.

[Thepatman]

Beleiving I could help her.

But you see that's not a fault I have. I'm just a good person and won't change that.

Next time I'll just pull the plug faster that's all. Some people deserve a second chance and help. Not BPD people.

[MaybeSo]

I had poor boundaries too.  Learned from childhood with a mentally ill parent.  Avoidance was much safer than dealing with dangerous mood swings.

ditto. had a very crazy self absorbed NPD/BPD step mom that my dad left my mom and us to be with,   and my dad was horribly codependent to this crazy woman the whole time growing up (and still is!)  and this taught me to be a "good sport" around abusive crazy people no matter what... .ugh! And  I'm really really good at being a good sport around crazy people!   This was the only way I could make sure I could have some time and attention with my dad... .the lessons I learned about what kind of bullsh** was required to have some love in my life was a set up for utter disaster.  But I'm learning!  Slowly but surely... .

[exbpdgf]

For me there's owning what brought me into the rs and owning why I stayed.

Of course not knowing what I was dealing with was a big part of all this, but that won't ever be my truth again (now know my ma is uBPD as is my ex).

In no particular order:

1. Rescuing

I cannot save anyone or anything outside of myself, be wary of those who ask this-look for patterns. Rescuing is not love. Falling in love with potential is not love

2. Ignoring "WTH" moments (even if tiny, I need to pay attention)

The more I investigate my last relationship, the more I see the red flags I ignored from the beginning, for ex: emotional lability is not sensitivity.

3. Doubling down when things get hard

I did this time and time again, thinking if I just tried hard enough... .If things are hard in the beginning, ding ding ding.

4. I am only responsible for my part of the r/s

What is my partner owning? What is my partner changing? Anything?

If it seems like I'm being blamed for all of it ding ding ding

5. I must be present to win

If I start checking out, this is a sign that I am overwhelmed and need to step back and pay attention. Due to my past, I can easily dissociate. The only way for me to figure out what's really going on is to be present emotionally. If I can't do this, this is a sign of something I need to step back and pay attention to and re-engage when I know what I feel.

6. Reactivity: went to see our ex couples counselor about 6 months post-breakup, she told me to watch for this in the future. If I'm getting "reactive" with someone, ding ding ding. If I'm really angry, I need to take action to take care of myself-get out temporarily at least

7. Getting involved too fast

If someone is pressing for quick involvement, I need to step back. This is not flattery, this could be something not good for me. I get to go as slow as I need to and if someone can't hang with this, I will wish them well and send them on their way

8. Trying too hard, for too long, for too little

Because I thought this is as good as it gets, this is the best I can have-again

If it seems too hard, perhaps this is the truth.

9. Not knowing my boundaries

If I don't know what I want, feel and need I'm letting someone else dictate the relationship. Giving my power away like that will only lead to more suffering. If I don't know what I need, feel, want, I need to step back and figure it out

10. Actions matching words

Be sure mine match, watch for this in others

11. Modeling good behavior is not enough (aka I deserve... .)

I can be buddha and still be involved with an ax murderer and this doesn't mean they will become buddha. I can focus on my side of the street and still be entitled to ask for a modicum of respect, decency, attention and love. I deserve to be treated the way I want.

12. I need to learn the difference between being loved and being objectified

I can feel the difference sexually, now need to learn it from the get go, outside of the bedroom. Addiction happens quickly, love happens slowly, so I need to let something grow.

13. Thought I could control insanity-mine and others. In truth, this is insane on my part. This goes hand in hand with thinking if I just acted good enough, things would work (see modeling good behavior above).

[GreenMango]

It's really easy when we are hurt to think the other person is the only problem but it takes two to make a relationship.

[myself]

Taking the fall for stuff I didn't do, trying to keep the relationship together. Doubting myself. Stuff like believing her projections, and apologizing to her for them. It wasn't who I really was, in her eyes or mine, and kept me down instead of freeing me.

[ExTreme]

What myself said. Never again. Thanks for, albeit painful, the lesson.

I am now free!