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Author Topic: 6.09 | Has the anger gone too far?  (Read 25828 times)
1bravegirl
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« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2011, 03:04:08 PM »

It depends on whether it is done in a controlled way or with anger and loss of self control.

I feel you need to express yourself as you feel certain things and many pwBPD and non's alike cannot do that.

For whatever reason, whether it was how they were raised or they don't want to make waves... they hold it in until it has to come out and then a little healthy venting becomes a tidal wave of destruction.

but sure if you need to get something off your chest and vent, hey bye all means, (speaking of non's of course, pwBPD can't do it very controlled... .) but do it in a well intentioned manner that shows you aren't trying to criticize or belittle someone but are expressing how something is making 'you' feel.  

so thats my take on venting.   I don't have to vent too much since I can usually speak up the moment something happens if it isn't ok with me and share whats on my mind...  sometimes that isn't a good thing but i would rather have it more that way than holding it in and then having it eat me up and then feel the need to unload...  ya no?     good thread... thanks!
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« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2011, 03:55:21 PM »

If anger is a construct of an individual mind, telling all minds "not" to do something is really... .concerning.  It's such a blanket term.  One person's anger could be the next person's frustration could be the next person's depression and so on.  Not venting/talking about feelings of frustration, angst, sadness, etc is going to do little to help someone see a different perspective.  If all someone is doing is going in a loop over and over in his or her own mind, the chances of growth seem slim... .or at least terribly slow.  There is something to be said for bouncing problems off of others.  Optimally it would be when you are open to new perspectives, change, recognition of self contribution to the problem, etc etc... .when there is some realization that work needs to be done.  But I don't personally think that has to be a requirement for expression of anger - however it's defined.  Sometimes people just need to be heard... .to get their thoughts together... .to get feedback. 

Now if venting means ranting abusively, physical actions against another person, going on and on about victimhood, etc - I guess I can see how that could create a loop unto itself.  There's an addictive quality to the rush that comes with releases like that. 
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« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2011, 04:27:57 PM »

I think there is an enormous and critical difference between acknowledging/accepting FEELINGS of anger and behaving badly as a result of those feelings. Accepting that I should FEEL angry when abused has made an enormous difference to my life and r/s. This is not connected in any way to thumping, shouting or raging. Those are behaviours. Anger is a feeling
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« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2011, 05:49:28 PM »

A lot of times there will be threads that are all about how nasty people's partners are to them. A lot of times there are threads about things people have experienced that are horrifying. Everyone needs to be heard, to share their experiences, and this is a good place to do that.

However, one of the things I've learned at this board is that I am responsible for everything I have experienced in my relationship. I am the one who stayed, I am the one who continues to stay. Taking that responsibility when you're being abused is not easy, but it's part of what we should be doing here, I believe.

The idea that *we* are as responsible as our partners because we stayed with them, is VERY difficult to get when you feel like a victim of abuse. But we are not victims, we are survivors, and part of the way that works is we have to take our power back. We gave it out of love or fear or both, but it's our power. We are responsible for our own lives, as adults, we can leave if we don't like it.

I'm sure most of us find it difficult at times to support each other in staying when we feel many of us should not stay. But we can all support each other in growing and learning new ways to deal with our situations.

This place is for improving your relationship, not complaining about it. If there is venting, something productive should go with it. IMHO. Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2011, 07:16:12 PM »

Excerpt
I agree with this; I think if you are angry, it's a signal your boundaries are being crossed.  Take better care of your boundaries, and you will spend less time feeling angry.

bingo... like peacebaby mentioned too... if my boundary gets crossed its bc i didnt do what i needed to to preserve it... and that is on me...

me personally... i dont 'vent' on here... i dont find it helpful... bc its not what my relationship is focused on... probably could if i wanted to... find something to b*tch abt every day... mostly i let it roll off... bc it aint a big deal... if it is... i got a boundary about it probably already... so it dont become a big deal... i also dont say anything here... that R is unaware how i feel abt it... if i post a issue here... i probably already talked w/him abt it... or plan to and just waiting for time.

i guess... stuff like 'hes always emailing me!' 'he cant do anything by himself!' 'hes jealous if i do anything else!' i did choose to be in a relationship w/somebody that is mentally ill... some people didnt know what they were getting into... but me... i had a pretty good idea... i did know he was totally cracked when we got together... and a lot of what that was gonna mean for me and our relationship... so to me... ___g abt stuff that i knew i was getting into... kinda like moving to antartica and complaining abt the snow... like... 'oh... hes panicking abt some new thing... yup... that happens... '
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« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2011, 07:58:47 PM »

Good point dados,

I too knew my H was mentally off 'bigtime' but still said I do, but never did I anticipate the degree of degrading behavior and how far he would take it...  but there again, it is about 'how far I allowed him to take it' and I just didn't have 'whatever' it is that's needed to make it better for a long long time.

so im sure i vented a lot back then, but not really to other people!  mostly to him!  and its no wonder it went from bad to worse and back again. right... ?

But when I am away from him or have been away from him from the beginning, I focus on positive things and try to get my mind on other things besides HIS craziness!  And its just a healthy pattern I was able to develop and live by and basically stay happy.  Not many people could tell I was going thru some crazy stuff at home cuz when I was around other folks, it was a time to change the mindset and enjoy myself.

but i did my share of venting and basically it is a bunch of HOT air and you feel much better when you just change the thing thats bothering you and get on with life.

Especially if you have chosen to be in the situation and have not been able to change things, and you keep complaining and venting about the same things over and over and over again...  thatis so hard to keep hearing...  so it really is much better to just do what is within our power to change it so we can live with the situation and not feel so stinkin miserable...    Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)  Or find a few safe confidants that we trust and that are in a healthy place and can be that sounding board for us and just call them periodically if we feel we have to get it off our chest and we know we can't talk to our SO. 

But limit our venting or complaining so as not to burden others and put all the stress of what we're feeling on them.  I don't think thats fair either.   And give our friends a break... take turns if you have a couple that can support you... So as not to download one friend too much.

if we can let it go, i feel its a much healthier avenue.  life is just too short to vent about things too often if we've done all the steps and still feel the need to vent...   there's something missing and maybe we are mad at ourselves and not what we're complaining about.   

One Proverb says... .  "Out of the abundance of heart, the of mouth speaks."   What are we constantly talking about?  It says alot about whats in our heart...    xoxo 

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« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2011, 08:46:40 PM »

if something does really bug me... i try to talk w/R abt it... compromise or w/e... and if he can... he tries... if he cant... least i got to have my say abt it... usually that helps me a lot more than venting to somebody that dont understand why his stuff might get to me...

other part... is most of the time... i dont think our relationship... is anybodys business... if theres a issue... its a R and me issue... and not a me and whoever else will listen issue... there is stuff i talk abt on here... mostly if it might be helpful to somebody... and if i know its something R wouldnt have a problem being shared... helps there hes pretty open abt being 'crazy' and so that aint a huge issue
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« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2011, 09:13:28 PM »

I concur... .  I enjoy posting my progress or problems mostly to help me see how things are going and when I can do things differently... *since this is basically all about what we can do to control ourselves right?*... .  and to hopefully help others and be a source of encouragement or someone to learn from... either what may help or what not to do... Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

thanks...   I feel pretty much the same way dados... .bg
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« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2011, 09:23:59 PM »

For me, I think Anger is a natural human emotion, it's what you do with it afterwards (and during), that is important. Venting, not at the other person, can be helpful, either in a journal, or an open fourm, but it's what you do after the vent. Did you vent because you wanted to feed the anger, or did you vent to get it out of your system, to help figure out why you have anger?

For me these are important questions.

If you vent and do nothing about it, it's only going to eat at your soul, and if it's eating at you then you can't solve the larger problem. Venting, reviewing and finding a solution to your problem can be uplifting for the soul, for me at least, it allows me to figure out, What Now?

It has taken me a long time to realize that I have a right to my anger, but I don't have a right to use it as a weapon to hurt another person.  

I hope that makes sense.

Everyone has a different way of dealing with stressful events - It's finding that way that words for you, and only you can figure it out.
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« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2011, 09:45:58 PM »



Two issues then... .

* Does allowing our partners to vent on us increase their aggression?

* Does venting here increase our resentment and the helpless feeling of being stuck?

1. We don't have the power to prevent our partners to vent on us other than trying to sooth them, which works sometimes. Even if we walk out, they will vent in their mind if not out loud, and it will probably be worse. I do believe this venting increases aggression. Over the years my BPDw has increased her aggeression, I believe because the venting is like affirmations about our perceived wrongs.

 2. I believe our venting here can also act as affirmations about our BPD's bad behavior, and reinforce the perception of living in a perpetual hell with a very mentally ill, abusive person. If not resentment, I believe hopelessness is a likely feeling, and that many of the responses feed those feelings.

I personally feel that rather than venting here, if we just dispassionately present the incedents and our specific reactions at the time, and ask for advice as to how best to deal with them, we would benefit more. I am talking now about the 'trying to stay' board. Possibly the anger associated with venting can be therapeutic in the initial stages of leaving, if you are absolutely positive leaving is what you want or need to do. I believe after leaving however, you need to let go of the anger and resentment for the sake of your own mental health and those around you.

After following many of the posts here, I feel that some of the posters sound more like the BPD partner than the BPD person they are posting about. Since transference, is a symptom of BPD, I imaging a number of people posting here feel they are the non-BPD when they themselves are actually the one with BPD. I believe we should all look very carefully at our own behavior since that is the only behavior we can change.
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« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2011, 12:10:08 PM »

I think the key is to find a balance.  Express how you feel, but make sure it is your feelings, not some calculated form of revenge (which is what venting ultimately is).  The one thing I've picked up from reading about mindfulness is a beginner's mind.  Look at what you feel as if it is something new.  You might find out something worthwhile to use that you can use to progress, not repress.

I like Illuminati's point; balance is often a desirable state and I see many benefits in venting but with control. It comes from experience, my f used to loose control and rage, my ex-h would deny experiencing being angry and I consider myself an expert at turning anger at myself. Ultimately I see anger as a way to express ourselves and send a signal; it is healthy enough when the person at the receiving end takes the signal into account, and I do not mean gets scared. Which begs the question: as adults are we all able to receive an angry message?
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« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2011, 01:32:20 PM »

i guess... i look a lot at venting as... trying to find validation over some issue... theres def been times when im just frustrated or annoyed abt something... end up talking to R and he has 0 suggestions... but says 'that sounds really frustrating... id be mad too... ' and thats pretty much... all i really needed to hear... if im wanting to vent abt something abt him... i usually be a little more diplomatic... and work it into a dearman or set format... and it ends up being more discussion than vent... i know how he is... and just 'venting' about him to him... would do a lot more harm than good... but figuring out what the issue that bothers me is... and actually talking it out helps more... just means maybe a little more tactful...

Excerpt
I personally feel that rather than venting here, if we just dispassionately present the incedents and our specific reactions at the time, and ask for advice as to how best to deal with them, we would benefit more.

this makes a lot of sense to me... still get to say... what bothers... but also get some concrete suggestion what to do abt it...
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« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2011, 02:42:52 PM »

Excerpt
* Does allowing our partners to vent on us increase their aggression?

I tend to say yes when looking at venting as a solution strategy. Venting often erodes respect, oversteps boundaries and reduces emotional regulation.

Excerpt
* Does venting here increase our resentment and the helpless feeling of being stuck?

Yes, when venting is done continuously and we all jump in and vent as well like the employees against their management - not  helpful. When angry and one post after the other is venting - not healthy. Venting is no solution.


However is life as simple as those experiments and are there not additional angles to the experiments that are worth understanding? Could we not learn more by looking closer? I'm struggling with some aspects of the experiments. Do they fully capture the use of venting in real life? Isn't venting also a short term coping mechanism? I'm not sure but I could imagine that when someone is close to dysregulation that a short venting burst can help to get back on an emotional excitement level where the normal emotional regulation mechanisms like self validation can work. Venting is also a warning signal for others to treat careful. Venting would not be the only natural short term coping mechanism abused as solution by pwBPD or people who are stuck.

SOO INTERESTING

Im stuck with my anger and resentment, all kept inside. The only times I try to let things out with my H is a few days after a crisis, when things get back to 'normal'. He then says 'you are attacking back' which hurts me because i feel he does not even allow me to vent. After reading these examples of scientific researches, I wonder how to deal with what's inside me.

Expressing your pain and processing it is a necessary part of your healing. Expressing negative emotions is healthy if you feel them - emotions are not under your direct control - and a very good way to deal with them is through self validation. The following quote may be useful in this context as it distinguishes between "talking" and "emotional writing". I would put venting into the "talking" category:

Excerpt
Prof. Richard Wiseman in his book :59 seconds (website: www.59seconds.wordpress.com/ ) wrote:

A group of participants were asked to select a negative experience [... .] One group of participants were then asked to have a long chat with a supportive experimenter (* ) about the event, while a second group were invited to chat about a far more mundane topic - a typical day. [... .] Participants who had spent time talking about their traumatic event thought the chat had been helpful. However, the various questionnaires told a very different story. In reality the chat had no significant impact at all. [... .] they might just as well have been chatting about a typical day.

In several studies, participants who have experienced a traumatic event have been encouraged to spend just a few minutes each day writing in a diary-type account of their deepest thoughts and feelings about it [12]. For example, in one study participants who had just been made redundant were asked to reflect upon their deepest thoughts and feelings about their job loss, including how it had affected both their personal and professional lives. Although these types of exercises were  both speedy and simple, the results revealed a remarkable boost in their psychological and physical well-being, including a reduction in health problems and an increase in self-esteem and happiness. The results left psychologists with something of a mystery. Why would talking about a traumatic experience have almost no effect but writing about it yield such significant benefits?

From a psychological perspective, talking and writing are very different. Talking can often be somewhat unstructured, disorganized, even chaotic. In contrast, writing encourages the creation of a story line and structure that help people make sense of what has happened and work towards a solution... .

[12] for a review of this work, see S. J. Lepore and J.M. Smyth (eds). The Writing Cure: How Expressive Writing Promotes Health and Emotional Well-Being. Washington, DC: American Psychological Association

(* ) not a T

In the original experiments given venting was done by: punching bags, verbal venting in a crowd or venting against helpless victims or objects. All situations where feedback was deliberately excluded. Does this reflect the reality of venting on the board?

Venting here on the board has some important twists. My tagline is "writing on bpdfamily is self validation squared". First writing per-se is activating different and higher regions in the brain than either talking or punching and thus promotes the processing of emotions and thus self validation. And second there is feedback from other members who point out what could be behind ones anger - disappointment, jealousy, insecurity etc... That is another layer of validation that comes back and helps.

Venting is always a sign that something is not o.k. and there are dysfunctional venting modes. I can see also some limited useful aspects of it here on the board:

- as a starting point for own emotional processing.

- as a trigger for other members to give feedback in which direction reflection on emotions may get the member unstuck.

- as an alarm sign. If a member typically doesn't vent then venting is an alarm sign that something serious is wrong.


In summary my view of venting on the board is that we all have a shared responsibility to look out for each other. To keep it an occasional coping and not a solution mechanism. And avoid jumping in and amplifying the venting. Since as a solution venting becomes quickly part of the problem.
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  Writing is self validation. Writing on bpdfamily is self validation squared!
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« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2011, 03:33:27 PM »

Hi Ned

Just read your post(below) and recognise your sentiments so much! I sometimes feels as though I'm  never allowed to say what I think or get at all angry. I can't do it when he's mad because it makes things worse and not when he's happy because then he'd get upset that I was being negative and causing trouble. So very frustrating!


SOO INTERESTING

Im stuck with my anger and resentment, all kept inside. The only times I try to let things out with my H is a few days after a crisis, when things get back to 'normal'. He then says 'you are attacking back' which hurts me because i feel he does not even allow me to vent. After reading these examples of scientific researches, I wonder how to deal with what's inside me. 

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« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2011, 06:02:44 PM »

What about allowing our partner to "vent" on us?

How does listening to them vent on us affect;

* us

* our partner

* the health of he relationship

Are there any positives for any of the above?
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« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2011, 06:14:28 PM »

I do not allow my partner to vent/be aggressive on me- We have a pact that the first one that raises his voice loses- a little humor but it works.

I do however feel the need to vent here- in a safe environment- to people who understand what I am experiencing.  I attempt to not just complain but to see my way out of the FOG and hear the sanity of clear thoughts and caring voices.  As it was said before-  think thru my feelings.  Venting here helps keep me grounded and sane.  I do not vent in anger, ok, sometimes i do but mostly just use the venting here as a "sounding board".  That saves me from venting to friends and family who can't understand this life we are currently choosing.

I feel it is important to not "stuff" my feelings anymore and will make my partner listen to my feelings-  That is part of our package.  I suffered from cancer 12 years ago and believe the "Feeling Stuffing" had something to do with that and will not hold things inside anymore but I will tell him about them calmly. 
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« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2011, 07:01:05 PM »

When it comes to venting and my relationship, I'd say there's healthy venting, which we do, and unhealthy venting, which we do less often but still cannot completely avoid.

Healthy venting, for us, is when one of us is pissed about something that has nothing to do with our relationship, and we vent about it a bit, and the other comisserates. Like a bad train ride home, or an irritating co-worker, stuff like that.

We try hard not to vent at each other in an unhealthy way, but sometimes we still do. Letting the pressures of life and resentments towards each other allow us to vent at each other in an angry, blaming way. That doesn't help anything. Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2011, 08:00:06 PM »

My personal take is that the concept of "venting" is just that: a concept.

It sounds silly to have to say it, but anger isn't, of course, a gas, like steam, that gets stored and increases in pressure until "vented". It's really a temporary emotional state.

Visualizing anger as a gas that has to be "vented" is just a concept. And as the original post references, it's a concept that is being shown scientifically to be not very accurate or helpful.
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« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2011, 11:37:17 PM »

My personal take is that the concept of "venting" is just that: a concept.

It sounds silly to have to say it, but anger isn't, of course, a gas, like steam, that gets stored and increases in pressure until "vented". It's really a temporary emotional state.

Visualizing anger as a gas that has to be "vented" is just a concept. And as the original post references, it's a concept that is being shown scientifically to be not very accurate or helpful.

OK, it's a temporary emotional state.  What causes it to dissapate then?  Time? Breathing?  Talking it out?  Venting?  All of the above?  Truth be told it's going to be different for everyone.  If it just goes away and we don't have to do anything about it why are our BPDs always getting angry over mostly nothing?  Why do they continue to have irrational fears for situations that happened in the past? 
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« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2011, 09:01:02 AM »

I'm going to ramble a bit... .

I've tended to focus on the negatives... .vent, ruminate, lose sleep over things, etc.  Very recently I decided to actively find and feed the positives vs. zeroing in on the negatives.

To the question of how to do this? It's a very deliberate action, takes a lot of practice and focused attention. In the beginning I used exercise, journaling, talking to someone, anything to help me get rid of the physical manifestations of the negatives so I could move through it. Today I mostly use yoga and meditation.  Eventually, it starts to become... .an ingrained behavior, just like all other behaviors. The more I practice, the better I get at it, and one day it's just... .part of how I behave. The other day a negative part of a conversation popped into my head. I asked myself: is it worth even thinking about this? The answer was no. And somehow... .I was able to just dismiss it and move on. It's as though my brain has created layers of filters. Sometimes... .things get caught in the first filter, the intellectual filter. That's when I can discard easily. Sometimes... .they get through that filter and into the emotional body. That's when it becomes more difficult, but not impossible. I am a work in progress.

* Does allowing our partners to vent on us increase their aggression?

* Does venting here increase our resentment and the helpless feeling of being stuck?


I'm going to continue my ramble as these are interesting and multi-layered questions... .

For me, venting = sharing with a 3rd party (not the person/situation I am angry with). Thus not sure if question number one actually means allowing them to rage at us? In which case I'd say yes, it would feed their aggression. (Plus big boundary violation which would require communication vs. venting.)

Why do I vent?  Because I am looking for validation of my feelings.  As I learn to validate my own feelings... .and identify which boundaries are being violated or if I need to enforce boundaries... .I'm finding the need to vent is becoming less and less.  I'm discovering that if I don't know what I'm feeling... .then I'll vent either on the forum or with a trusted friend.  But... .I'm actually trying to vent less and less and identify my feelings and then take care of them on my own. The more I work on becoming aware of my feelings as they come up and of my boundaries or lack thereof, the easier this becomes.

I did start to feel as though by continuous venting (on forums) I was getting stuck on the negatives. Sort of like a stuck record (for those who remember records!) they would get stuck in a groove and repeat the same thing over and over and over again. With a slight push, the song got back on track and moved forward... .but it took a deliberate act. Otherwise... .same bit ad infinitum.

I know from experience that the venting experience for my uBPDexgf was a magnification of what I've just written. Validating her feelings vs. fixing the problem was key. She eventually learned to ask for help in fixing the problem. As did I. That brought us closer together.

[If I find i'm in the stuck place... .I simply give the problem up (to a higher power be it God/dess, an online forum, a journal, etc.) rather than trying to solve it myself. That invariably will bring the solution into plain view.]

cheers.

xoxo
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« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2011, 02:18:53 PM »

Interesting to read all the posts on this thread.  Hadn't yet seen it.  I think everyone gets angry, and it is not negative, in and of itself.  As SFN (I think) said, it is a feeling.  I think it should not be just considered negative, it has a purpose too.   Expressing anger by the process of venting, can feel needed, at times, by many.  I find that my frustrations dealing w/my BPDh, can find me feeling a need to "let it out" in some fashion.  I don't really consider what I do on here venting, more like I need a reality check, or to compare notes, that kind of thing. 

I do believe it can cause us ill health, physically, as well as emotionally, spiritually, to stuff the anger, not have a release of any kind, which is when it becomes negative.  A book I found value in, called "Healing Rage" by Ruth King, M.A., gives a lot of good feedback.  One of the things she says is, it can help with that bottled up feeling, if you find a safe place to vent, to let it out.   She is not referring to venting to someone else, but rather, to finding a safe place to vent to no-one.  Many do that while driving a car (dangerous potential there), she says if you can walk somewhere no-one can hear you, or a room w/a door, or no-one home, that ocassionally, if you can find a way to harmlessly way to really let it out, that can help give that release.

One of the best books I have seen, about really knowing and understand the landscape of feelings, is called (I think), "The Language of Emotions", by Karla McLaren.  Helps us to give them proper perspective, not think of them as just "good" or "bad" feelings.
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« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2011, 04:35:13 PM »

Excerpt
I grew up not being ALLOWED to express any anger, ever.  And right now I'm getting a bit cheese-grated over some of the comments that are saying it's better to live that way.  Well, it ain't---for me, at least.  That's pretty doggone invalidating, in my opinion. 

We live in delicate balance.  Everything has a good side & bad side.  Everything can be used positively or negatively.  The same thing with emotions, one of which is anger.  Certainly it can be displayed & used inappropriately.  But the notion that I should dismiss it or "just get over it" and never express it is in my mind ridiculous. 

I just wanted to say that I couldn't have said it better myself... .I think that it is just as damaging to suggest that anger ought to be held in as it is to suggest that it's okay to expres any and all anger all the time in any which way.  Both are extremes and aren't healthy.
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« Reply #52 on: February 15, 2011, 11:37:38 AM »

Excerpt
A good relevant question is ":)oes it work for you", applied to whatever.

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) thats pretty much how i do...

wonder if you could just replace 'vent' w/ 'rant'... ranting abt behaviors that drive you nuts... probably not so helpful... ranting also doesnt have the same kind of 'gotta let it out or blow' flavor 'vent' does... its also possible to be angry abt something w/out ranting about it... and to validate somebody being angry... w/out letting them rant at you...
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« Reply #53 on: February 15, 2011, 01:16:23 PM »

I agree with dados, what I was thinking is, some here seem to be referring to venting meaning ranting - and we know how much we love to be ranted at.

I think many are thinking just the need to have a safe place to talk about BPD behaviours, bad ones esp., is the same as venting, but it isn't.  Complaining maybe?  Which we need to do in our situation at times.  Maybe esp. those of us w/untreated BPD partners, as they are not in therapy, I see we may need to bounce things off each other more, esp. when the going is rough.
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« Reply #54 on: February 16, 2011, 03:28:23 AM »

There seems to be some conflicting views here.

* some feel it is healthy to share (vent) their frustrations here or to friends for pure validation purposes

* some feel it is healthy to share (vent) their frustrations only if they are seeking solutions

* some view it as an unfair additional burden to be expected to let things go and not express their frustrations

* some agree that there are healthier alternatives, such as radical acceptance (an internal locus of control-vs- an external locus of control)

I wonder how much feeling helpless has to do with the need to "vent"?

When you feel like you don't have a choice... .when you feel like a victim... .When you can't see an out... when you struggle for a solution... .when you feel trapped - does venting (expressing your frustrations) reinforce/perpetuate that feeling of being a helpless victim or does it empower you to find solutions?

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« Reply #55 on: February 16, 2011, 05:44:00 AM »

UFN, in fairness to the rest of the board, the way the original post was written could be easily misinterpreted.  I had to re-read the first post myself to make sure I was missing something.  What I picked up from what others are saying is that they saw the large, well-contrasted examples of how venting is BAD, mmkay, then missed the few sentences where you mentioned healthier alternatives.  As a result, a lot of people just saw the venting is BAD part and read it as you were encouraging repression. 

Of course, there are healthier alternatives to venting.  Repression and screaming matches aren't the only options.  Taking time outs are extremely important.  However, what you do with those time outs are important as well.  If you spend them stewing over how you were done wrong, that's not a good thing.  If you find some way to figure out, either alone, with friends, with research on the net, how to deal with the situation, that's a good way to deal with that energy.  Also, if you spend time just getting it all out physically with exercise or hobbies, that's great.  And lastly, it's important to have a life outside of your partner with other people, not only to have a life outside of them but to see how much of what you're going through is life and how much of it has to do with your partners issues. 

Hey, this board is composed of humans... .unfortunately.
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« Reply #56 on: February 16, 2011, 05:09:09 PM »

I agree with dados, what I was thinking is, some here seem to be referring to venting meaning ranting - and we know how much we love to be ranted at.

I think many are thinking just the need to have a safe place to talk about BPD behaviours, bad ones esp., is the same as venting, but it isn't.  Complaining maybe?  Which we need to do in our situation at times.  Maybe esp. those of us w/untreated BPD partners, as they are not in therapy, I see we may need to bounce things off each other more, esp. when the going is rough.

i dont even like to read ranting... and some stuff can take that turn... so i stay out of it... bc it aint useful for me to play 'my SO is crazier than yours'...

from my end... focusing on what somebody else is doing 'to me' esp. somebody mentally ill that aint always aware/intentionally acting like a d*ckhead... or is acting on crazy kinds of motives... is really convenient to take my focus off myself... and makes it a lot easier to ignore my side... bc 'they' are so bad... was a situation i went thru with with my brother... that i put a lot of time and energy into all the crazy stuff he was doing... and how bad it was affecting me... until i kinda pulled the plug... and it stopped affecting me and i had a lot of time to sit w/my own stuff... not too comfortable at first... but important for me to do...
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« Reply #57 on: February 16, 2011, 11:32:57 PM »

I am very clear, that I do not, at all, consider myself to be a victim.  I know perfectly well that I have chosen to stay, at least for now w/my BPD partner.  I have left other distructive relationships in the past b/c both people in the r/s were not working on it.  I know well that I cannot make the r/s work by myself.  I have no problem making sure that I do not perceive things as if I am a victim, ever. My BPDh has shown me that he wants to be w/me, that he wants me to try to work things out w/him, and that he is willing to do his part in attempting to make it work between us, otherwise, I would not be here.

Do I feel trapped though?   The answer is, yes, sometimes.  To be honest, I am more confused than ever what each individual is referring to when they use the term "venting" here.  What the heck is this whole site for, if not for us to discuss the aspects of our BPD partners?  To voice the things we wonder about, are concerned about, and sure, sometimes the things we kind of put up with.  I think that it was runnermom who voiced this when she said, "we are all kind of at different levels of learning here" - to that affect.  I mean, isn't this all about bouncing stuff off each other here?  And of course, we all chose which threads we respond to, and when, and how.  I for one appreciate hearing from other level heads when life gets that merry-go-round feeling again.  It can be painful to experience some of the heavier traumas folks here go through, but I value the opportunity to be able to participate in helping others along their way, just as I am helped when I lose my way.

I
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« Reply #58 on: February 17, 2011, 04:06:07 AM »

There's two things that most members here don't know about me... .

~ I'm an ex smoker - I smoked for 16 years but quit 13 years ago.

~ I'm overweight, meaning I'm a hefty girl - I have unhealthy eating habits, much of it after I quit smoking 

There was nothing like dragging in that lung full of smoke to soothe my nerves and relax me. It was the first thing I reached for in the morning, even before getting out of bed. It was a huge part of my life. I smoked while making dinner, after dinner, while cleaning up dinner, in the car, on the phone, you get the picture... .

If I was put in situations where I couldn't smoke for long time periods (like more than 2 hours) I would become anxious and fidgety, and my mind would start to focus on how much longer till I could go smoke, rather than the task at hand. I felt good when I smoked and made sure that I always had my supply available.

The thing that I enjoyed so much though, was slowly destroying me. I got severe pnemonia a couple of times a year. I had a chronic cough, and my teeth actually turned yellow 

Quitting smoking has changed my life. The extra weight is mild compared to what I was doing to my body by poisoning myself from the inside.

Yet for years it was considered "OK" to be a smoker. Manufacturers assured the public that smoking wasn't dangerous to your health. It was science that proved this wrong though, and it took years to change the engrained culture of acceptance surrounding smoking. 


A few years ago a scientist suggested that releasing your anger was a healthy thing, instead of bottling it up inside. That you should punch a pillow, scream when no one is around, or find someone you can verbally unload your frustrations onto - as long as you weren't hurting anyone else it was thought to be a good thing to "vent".

Study after study since then has shown that being exposed to violence actually increases it. That punching Bobo dolls or screaming at your steering wheel leads to more outward expressions of aggression. That when groups meet to discuss their frustrations, that it actually increases the negative mood and decreases the empathy they feel towards "others". That when you are invited and validated for venting, that you are more hostile regarding the source of your frustration. Resentment also goes up when people are given the OK to "vent" their frustrations.

Very few people would suggest that smoking isn't bad for your health today, except for active smokers or cigg manufacturers... .just like us, they too are in various states of understanding and acceptance.

There are tons of internet groups that allow their members to "vent", and as was mentioned previously, they are considered pretty unhealthy places to be.

So, as we learn more and more about the negative effects that being allowed to express your anger creates, doesn't it behoove us to examine what role "venting" plays in our lives?

Isn't one of our primary tasks here to examine how we can become healthier and stronger?
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« Reply #59 on: February 17, 2011, 03:55:36 PM »

So, is this site unhealthy since there are so many people that say they need to share?

And I still see where the information provided equates "venting" with "violence". 

Should we move that nobody can say anything negative anymore because it makes us all more toxic towards our own partners when we read someone else's painful, empassioned posts?

I'm not a victim.  I'm not on here everyday talking about how horrible my life is or how horrible my partner is, while ignoring the perspectives/advice of others.  I don't walk around and wallow in self-pity, pointing to how everything is so unfair.  I choose my path.  And sometimes I do NOT like what's dealt to me, but I deal with it.  Part of dealing with it is being able to SAY that I don't like it.  There are some pretty rotten people out there in the world.  I'm not their victim because I don't stand around and take it and then "vent" about it afterwards.

Getting poison out of my system by talking about it does NOT mean for me that I hit things, scream at my steering wheel, or find an object to hit in place of the person.  I do NOT feel helpless, but sometimes a problem comes up & I can't, in the moment, see past it or see a way out.  I know myself enough to know that I will ruminate if I don't talk about it.  And guess what---I can NOT talk to my friends or family about some of the very specific, embarassing, and weird problems people like us deal with.  It's just too much to share. 
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