Why can't I just end this

[PM720]

So long story here goes... .Married for 5 years and together for 8.  2 kids.  S5 and D3.  Our relationship has always been pretty rocky and we have never really fought fair. When everything was good it was the best I have ever felt and when they are bad I wouldn't have wished this on anyone.

About 3 months ago had a huge blowup regarding a "friend" of hers. It was a guy that she used to hookup with before we met, but he would cheat on his wife (then gf) with my wife. Again this was before we met, but the situation always made me uncomfortable, especially since his wife did not know that. We have fought over this relationship for probably over a year. She would break plans with me to hang out with him and his family. He invited us to their house and when I told her I would go, she called and canceled the plans.

What led to the fight was that she had gone out for her reunion, texted me at 2AM that she was going back to his house with some other people and didn't return till 7 in the morning.

I completely flipped out and it was one of the worst fights we have ever had. I just feel that I am constantly disrespected. We then decided we would get divorced, I filed after she accused me of physically hurting our son. We had been playing in the hall way when he fell. She screamed that I had abused him and went through the house screaming this, and locked herself in the bathroom. She then called her mom screaming that i was abusing our own kids. Her mom called the cops. When the cops came, she told him she knows that we were only playing and that it was an accident and that I would never hurt him.

I filed for divorce the next day.

Since that day we've gone back and forth arguing about what to do.  I thought I was finally over it and then recently discovered that she has been texting some guy, every day, 20-30 times a day.  When I asked her about it she was extremely defensive and angry.  So finally i tell her I found a place and am leaving at the end of the month.  The paperwork for the divorce is almost done.  Yesterday, she texts me out of the blue that she wants to call of the divorce, if I tell her I will work on things.  That we have two kids and she wants to be together.  She tells me she doesn't love me, but that the kids need us. She wants to try and work things out, but she wants me to say that I want that too.

Here is what I don't get... .why the hell can't I just end this.  Am I that co dependent that I will just allow anything.  If I try and work things out, won't I just be saying "you can treat me however you like, and I'll just take it and you can always come back?"  To me the answer is clear... .just get out.  I am almost done with all this crazy stuff, but I am so worried for my kids and care about them more than anything.  I could use some advice.  I feel like I know what I need to do, but I just need to finally do it.

[MaybeSo]

Well, when you build a life and a family with someone it's never as easy as just 'get out'. 

I was not married but I was engaged and co-partenting with my ex, we had built a life together, so it was hard to just end things.  It's hard!

People who are married have arguments and differing opinions all the time about keeping freinds of the opposite sex or hanging out with ex's etc.  Even in "norma"l relationships, this can come up as an issue.  Have you guys tried marriage counseling or individual counseling at all?

Is she acutally diagnosed with anything at this point?

The call to her mom that stimulated police involvement is a huge red flag... .has she done anything like that before or threatened it?  How is she as a mom? 

Have you spent anytime on either the Staying Board yet, or the Undecided Board?

Because you have children with her, she is a person you are going to have to contend with, married or not, in at least the capacity of co parenting and logistics re: the kids, so the Staying Board is where you learn tools to protect yourself while trying to communicate with a person who has BPD. Then there's another board specifically for divorce and legal issues.

One thing I wish I'd not done in hindsight... .I wish I'd not have spent time arguing with my now ex about his extracurricular activities with his ex's and female friends. Yes, it felt disrespectful and it bothered me for all the exact reasons it concerns you. However, I spent hours fighting over it with him. What a painful waste of time. What I learned is I have no power or control over anyone else but myself.  If I had it to over gain, I'd have said my peace, asked for what I needed 1x, maybe 2x in  terms of my boundary... .and if it made no difference and he continued, which in my case he did,   I'd assume this person will not change regarding this issue and I would have not spent one more second wasting my breath in arguing about it... .I'd spend my time instead either giving serious thought to if I can even be in this relationship like this and planning what I need to do for me, and/or  I  would spend that time doing other things that I value and enjoy that make me happier person.   

I think you need to set your boundary with her, whatever that is, and move forward.

[PM720]

She never really wanted to go to Marriage Counseling.  I had gone to individual counseling myself.  The thing is I think that her friendship with this guy bothered me bc we were having problems.  For instance one Saturday we had gone to Home Depot.  Spent $400 on paint and supplies to paint the house.  Now I didn't want to paint, but did so, so that we could do something together.  She wanted to and I told her I would.  So we spend all day getting stuff together and then later that day, he calls and invites her to Busch Gardens with the kids. She then tells me she no longer wants to do what we had plan bc she wants to go hang out with him and his family. We get into an argument.  The next day, she tells me she is taking the kids to lunch and then texts me later that she is at Busch Gardens with the same guy.  I wouldn't have pulled stuff like that.

I feel like she has BPD traits.  She did the whole love bombing stage in the beginning.  The thing with the cops, she will flat out deny that she said that I ever abused them.  I witnessed her screaming and locking the kids in the bathroom.  I was there when she told her mother I had abused them.  She will say things and then claim she never did.  Told our son once that the reason why he didn't have lunch was because I refused to buy the kids food. Meanwhile she works evenings and is home with the kids all day. Told me that my soul was bad.  That my core was bad which is why she couldn't be with me. It has been walking on eggshells for years now.  I never know what is going to happen and what she is going to do.  I am blamed for everything.  I was the reason she didn't go to Grad School, the reason she has no friends, the reason she was unhappy. No matter what happens it always leads back to me.

You are 100% right regarding boundaries. I am in IC now and that is exactly what she recommended.  I need to set boundaries and keep them. After months of asking her to counseling she has now said she would talk to someone, funny it happened after I told her I was moving at the end of the month. 

It is just this never ending cycle of not knowing who is going to show up. It is like Jekyll and Hyde.  One minute everything can be fine and the next all hell has broken loose.

She is a very very good mom and the kids love her except for when she gets stressed.  She can't handle any type of stress and will lash out at the kids.  I feel so bad for them.  It is truly so weird when she is in one of her moods.  It is completely irrational. I didn't know what it was until I read about BPD and it seemed to fit so perfect. Just wish I had learned about this earlier.

[pippobom]

Mammamia... .Today's quote at the top of this board really made me think of your situation along, of course, with your posting about it.

"Think About It... .

We estimate that by using subthreshold criteria of BPD (at least three criteria met), close to 50% of the distressed couples seeking treatment have at least one member with borderline personality traits or the full syndrome of BPD... .

~ Alan Fruzzetti, PhD, University of Nevada "Borderline Personality Disorder" "

Sounds to me that there are some serious communication impasses with you and your maybe BPD spouse. If she IS BPD, it's unlikely that she's going to be able to admit to, acknowledge any much personal responsibility regarding some of her disturbing and distressful behaviors within your relationship and that can't be easy at all to deal with. You're doing the right thing seeing a therapist and maintaining the welfare of your children in consideration.

I've found the communication techniques set forth in SET very helpful, whether or not as a significant other, we're staying or leaving the relationship. Have you checked them out yet?

[Validation78]

Hi PM720!

I know you already know this, and I am saying it in order to help you keep it in the forefront of your mind. Your primary concern should be for the health and well being of yourself and your children. You know full well that the environment that you are all living in is not a healthy one, that you and your children are being exposed to behaviors that do harm to you and them as well. If your choice is to stay, then it is essential for you to take charge of making some healthy changes in order to improve the quality of life in your home. The staying board has links to The Lessons we all need to learn in order to stay in a relationship with a pwBPD. You see, often, the pwBPD will not acknowledge that they have a problem. That doesn't mean that things can't get better. What it does mean is that we must make the changes in ourselves and our behaviors. I know from my own experience what I did, and often still do, to make a bad matter worse, and the tools we can learn here are so very helpful in the effort to improve communication and the overall relationship. It is up to you though, and you must take control of the only person over whom you have control, YOU!

Best Wishes,

Val78

[PM720]

Wanted to give an update since it has been a while since I posted.  The wife has been trying to get me to work things out with her.  Using whatever tactics (mostly saying that I am abandoning my children) to convince me to stay.  When I bring up things that happened over the past 4 1/2 months she still continues to say she did nothing wrong.  She says that since she wasn't the one who called the police (her mom did) so I shouldn't be upset with her. She brushes the whole incident away.  She has bad mouthed me to other people, I have lost friends to this, as well as post stuff about me on FaceBook.  Whenever I attempt to talk to her, she will run out of the room.  Sometimes she will lock herself in the bathroom, so that we can't talk about anything. The thing that really gets to me is that she flat out denies any wrong doing.  She will say things like "that never happened" or "i never did that."  I guess my question is, do they really believe that?  Does she really have a different recollection of EVERYTHING that has happened or does she just not want to admit it.

She has told me countless times she wants to go to counseling, but in the 4 months she has scheduled one appointment and then canceled it because she was sick.  I really don't know what to do. I feel like too much has happened to try and go back to fix it.  But I don't want to hurt my children or abandon them as she claims.  I just know that the relationship, the way it is, is not healthy for anyone.  They are my #1 priority and I need to do what is best for them and myself.

I don't see how people can continue in these relationships.  Its like one minute everything can be great and if anything goes wrong, I am all of a sudden the worst person in the world.  Walking on egg shells is the perfect term.  Everything has to be perfect and if its not then forget it.  This can be days, weeks, or months that she'll hold a grudge.  I don't know I just don't see how I can go back to this.  It can't be what is best for me and the kids.

[Washisheart]

I think the most important statement was when she told you she didn't love you.

I know its hard to walk away, but please ask yourself why you would continue to putt yourself through this hell for the convenience of someone who could say that to you. And children aren't stupid. They know how rough things are. If she is so worried about you"abandoning them" tell her you will take custody then. She just wants you there are a built in babysitter & problem solver and you deserve better than that.

In my own personal experience, when my uBPDxbf told me he "didn't love me" it was because he was busy telling someone else he did love her.

If in your heart and in your mind you KNOW you are ready for it to be over, you owe it to yourself to allow yourself to heal so that you can find yourself that amazing woman who will make you truly happy til death due you part

[survivor1]

Hi PM720:

I'm sorry you are going through this horrible struggle.  I went through something similar and stayed in a bad marriage for 14 years.  No two situations are exactly the same, but in my case, staying with a wife with BPD was a mistake for me and the children. 

I believe that it would have been better for all concerned if my marriage had ended sooner.  Living apart, I was able to provide a sane, although part-time, home for my girls. They moved in with me full time a year or two after the divorce. They are now young independent adults. In addition, I was able to find love again and be loved in a way that was never possible with my ex.

[chuckstrong]

PM

hang in there... .  "why cant i just end this" is a question i ask myself every single day... .  

i have the power to not contact her and not respond when she contacts me... .  will i ever be

able to do it? thanks for your post on my thread it was spot on ... .  i emailed her back thursday night

and now wait and check my phone constantly for a response... .  this is no way to live... .  praying

for bread crumbs from her while she keeps me on the back burner... .  she even said in her last email 5 days ago " i am missing you and loving you but still strongly feel we should keep our own space for now"

Really? for now? until you decide maybe im not perfect but better than any altenative? screw that!

does that seem fair to you?... .  time for me to be the person i was 14 months ago when i met her

strong single and independent... .  hope you can do the same... .  tired of playing the jilted victim... .  

need to get my old Chuck M mojo back... .  lets start now!

Chuck

[PM720]

Hi PM720:

I'm sorry you are going through this horrible struggle.  I went through something similar and stayed in a bad marriage for 14 years.  No two situations are exactly the same, but in my case, staying with a wife with BPD was a mistake for me and the children. 

I believe that it would have been better for all concerned if my marriage had ended sooner.  Living apart, I was able to provide a sane, although part-time, home for my girls. They moved in with me full time a year or two after the divorce. They are now young independent adults. In addition, I was able to find love again and be loved in a way that was never possible with my ex.

How do the kids handle it?  That is my biggest fear.  They are so young (5&3) and I am so worried about them.  I feel like they are going to take it so bad. When I am with them now, I sit there thinking, wow they have no idea what is about to happen.  But our lives cannot continue this way. I'd like to think that everything will be OK at some point.  That it is better to see their parents happy even if they are apart. But I have been dreading the day I tell them I am leaving, since the moment we talked about divorce.

[PM720]

Anyone here have kids? I'd like to hear how they took it when it ended.  Right now that is my biggest worry. I know it is going to be incredibly rough for me, but am more worried about my children (S5, D3).  I know that keeping them in this environment will only hurt them, but the fact that we go to mediation in 19 days has me incredibly scared.  I just hope that in the end I am doing the right thing.

[Randi Kreger]

So long story here goes... .  Married for 5 years and together for 8.  2 kids.  S5 and D3.  Our relationship has always been pretty rocky and we have never really fought fair. When everything was good it was the best I have ever felt and when they are bad I wouldn't have wished this on anyone. About 3 months ago had a huge blowup regarding a "friend" of hers. It was a guy that she used to hookup with before we met, but he would cheat on his wife (then gf) with my wife. Again this was before we met, but the situation always made me uncomfortable, especially since his wife did not know that. We have fought over this relationship for probably over a year. She would break plans with me to hang out with him and his family. He invited us to their house and when I told her I would go, she called and canceled the plans. What led to the fight was that she had gone out for her reunion, texted me at 2AM that she was going back to his house with some other people and didn't return till 7 in the morning.I completely flipped out and it was one of the worst fights we have ever had. I just feel that I am constantly disrespected. We then decided we would get divorced, I filed after she accused me of physically hurting our son. We had been playing in the hall way when he fell. She screamed that I had abused him and went through the house screaming this, and locked herself in the bathroom. She then called her mom screaming that i was abusing our own kids. Her mom called the cops. When the cops came, she told him she knows that we were only playing and that it was an accident and that I would never hurt him.I filed for divorce the next day.Since that day we've gone back and forth arguing about what to do.  I thought I was finally over it and then recently discovered that she has been texting some guy, every day, 20-30 times a day.  When I asked her about it she was extremely defensive and angry.  So finally i tell her I found a place and am leaving at the end of the month.  The paperwork for the divorce is almost done.  Yesterday, she texts me out of the blue that she wants to call of the divorce, if I tell her I will work on things.  That we have two kids and she wants to be together.  She tells me she doesn't love me, but that the kids need us. She wants to try and work things out, but she wants me to say that I want that too.Here is what I don't get... .  why the hell can't I just end this.  Am I that co dependent that I will just allow anything.  If I try and work things out, won't I just be saying "you can treat me however you like, and I'll just take it and you can always come back?"  To me the answer is clear... .  just get out.  I am almost done with all this crazy stuff, but I am so worried for my kids and care about them more than anything.  I could use some advice.  I feel like I know what I need to do, but I just need to finally do it.

There are many many reasons why people stay in bad relationships. I have just written a chapter on it, and one way I researched it was googling that phrase. Only you, really, can identify which reasons are really yours.

[real lady]

Anyone here have kids? I'd like to hear how they took it when it ended.  Right now that is my biggest worry. I know it is going to be incredibly rough for me, but am more worried about my children (S5, D3).  I know that keeping them in this environment will only hurt them, but the fact that we go to mediation in 19 days has me incredibly scared.  I just hope that in the end I am doing the right thing.

My son was 8 when HE came to me and asked me "what is daddy and sissy going to do when WE leave? and through probing I found out that HE realized that "daddy and sissy are mean to you"... .  he CARED about me... .  

Your children are way too young to be able to see the subtle abuse and disrespect that your BPDw is giving you. It is best NOT to involve them and it is, generally, BETTER FOR THEM to be with one healthy parent than in a situation where LIES and betrayal and constant disrespect and STRESS rules. Your children may not understand NOW what is happening but you may be saving them from years of therapy and personal grief by getting them into a HEALTHY HOME ASAP. Can you demand that your BPDw UNDERGO psychological testing for BPD to show that she may NOT be the best custodial parent so that you will have full custody of them with visitation that will NOT put them in jeopardy.

Her situation sounds like she just "takes off" whenever she wants to... .  this is NOT healthy and I would NOT trust her to take care of the kids when you separate. If she said she didn't love you; I would take that as the reason WHY she has behaved as she has with this man and toward you... .  I am sorry for your pain but you can start taking better care of YOU and your children... .  Wishing you the best. You deserve better.