Help... Can't stop fantasizing about Sex with Ex

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Hi All,

So, I've been out of the relationship with my ex for about 5 months and I feel helplessly depressed. I think my ex has BPD but I'm not really sure as she never was diagnosed with it. I only learned about BPD after the break up when I went to a councillor and told her my story. She said... .sounds like you have been walking on eggshells and then suggested I read stuff about BPD. When I read the stories on-line, I was shocked. They read exactly like mine.

The main cause of any outburst or rage from her was always because of my lack of commitment. I was with her for going on 5 years and I never really wanted to move in with her or marry her. There was always this fear in the back of my mind... .

She would blow up at me at least once a week, if not more. The reason was always my lack of commitment, my lack of not moving down to be with her, my lack of taking care of her. This is even after she went to DC to do an internship for 6 months that I paid for. And the fights were never about the lack of commitment. She would yell at me for waking her up in the middle of the night when I was only rolling over. She would rage at me for petting a dog in the morning and not giving her a hug instead. She would rage at me for being late to pick her up. She would rage at me pretty much everything and anything. She once came down and And when I asked her why she was raging at me, she would always say it was because I wasn't committed to her. I would then respond that I wasn't committing to her because she was always raging at me and if we could just spend a couple of weeks together without a huge drama fight, that I would be happy to move in. That never happened.

The final straw was when I was about to move down to DC. She got a really high profile job. It was a totally last minute thing so she got a place with roommates. I was going to move down then but the house didn't allow any more people there, so I waited. When her lease was up, I made a trip down there to move in my stuff. That weekend, she managed to call me an ___hole at least three times. Once because I wouldn't sit beside her while she was having breakfast (she woke up at 2pm and I was getting antsy), once because I had to pee really badly and we were lost driving around (I have a really weak bladder... .), and once because she made me sleep on a blow up mattress because she wanted the king sized bed that we bought together (for $2500) to herself. I was sweating buckets and sticking the plastic on the mattress so I tried to slip into the bed without waking her up. I was tired. It was 3 in the morning. She woke up and started freaking out at me, calling me an ___hole. I told her to F off and that was the last time I saw her. We talked about it over the phone for months. But, it was always my fault. I wasn't committed enough. There were 'structural' issues in our relationship that couldn't be resolved without living together (she is a sociologist... .never get involved with a sociologist).

Ok. Enough back story. The only thing I really miss is the sex. The sex was insane. Right out of a porn movie. Not all the time. Sometimes she would have to 'connect' with me before having sex and she would try to stare deep into my eyes for hours, which totally freaked me out. But, when it was on, it was on. She was/is incredibly beautiful. She was the physical epitome of everything I would ever want. And sexually, she was my fantasy girl in real life. Seriously. Everything I could ever want (minus the freaky need to 'connect' and 'be in love'.

Now I'm stuck. The only thing that gets me excited sexually is thoughts of her. I see her in everything I do. I fantasize about her all the time. I can't seem to stop. And I feel terrible about it every time. I feel like I've lost the most amazing thing in the world. It completely distorts my vision and makes me incredibly depressed.

I tried to go no contact and for about 4 weeks, there wasn't any contact. I told her not to call me, not to email me, or anything for at least 60 days. She called me 4 weeks later from a blocked number and I was stupid enough to talk to her. We had a pretty good talk but then she started telling me how much she missed my body and especially a certain body part... .And then she said "is that inappropriate' and then giggled and then got off the phone. All I could do was start thinking about getting back together with her. Like she hooked me and I was back in. For the next 10 days, all I could do was think about planning to be with her. She kept emailing me saying she wished I was there and how much she missed me. And all the while, I KNOW she is in another relationship (she told me so about 6 weeks after we broke up). I called her 10 days later and asked her why she was calling me and why she was saying these things. She just told me that she missed her best friend and had no intention of ever being 'romantically' involved with me. She then told me that she called me out of loving and kindness for me. I told her to never call me again. So far, she hasn't.

Oy... .This has been a lot longer than I thought it would be. I know the hook for me with her was the sex. Has anyone else had the experience of having crazy mind-blowing sex and have gotten over it? I really, really hope that some of you out there might have some experience. This is literally making me insane. It is all I can think of. And when I do, I beat myself up for not 'committing' to her like she demanded because maybe then she wouldn't have been so crazy and I could have kept the crazy sex. I miss it so much! Blarg!

Please help!

[willy45]

Hi All,

So, I've been out of the relationship with my ex for about 5 months and I feel helplessly depressed. I think my ex has BPD but I'm not really sure as she never was diagnosed with it. I only learned about BPD after the break up when I went to a councillor and told her my story. She said... .sounds like you have been walking on eggshells and then suggested I read stuff about BPD. When I read the stories on-line, I was shocked. They read exactly like mine.

The main cause of any outburst or rage from her was always because of my lack of commitment. I was with her for going on 5 years and I never really wanted to move in with her or marry her. There was always this fear in the back of my mind... .

She would blow up at me at least once a week, if not more. The reason was always my lack of commitment, my lack of not moving down to be with her, my lack of taking care of her. This is even after she went to DC to do an internship for 6 months that I paid for. And the fights were never about the lack of commitment. She would yell at me for waking her up in the middle of the night when I was only rolling over. She would rage at me for petting a dog in the morning and not giving her a hug instead. She would rage at me for being late to pick her up. She would rage at me pretty much everything and anything. She once came down and And when I asked her why she was raging at me, she would always say it was because I wasn't committed to her. I would then respond that I wasn't committing to her because she was always raging at me and if we could just spend a couple of weeks together without a huge drama fight, that I would be happy to move in. That never happened.

The final straw was when I was about to move down to DC. She got a really high profile job. It was a totally last minute thing so she got a place with roommates. I was going to move down then but the house didn't allow any more people there, so I waited. When her lease was up, I made a trip down there to move in my stuff. That weekend, she managed to call me an ___hole at least three times. Once because I wouldn't sit beside her while she was having breakfast (she woke up at 2pm and I was getting antsy), once because I had to pee really badly and we were lost driving around (I have a really weak bladder... .), and once because she made me sleep on a blow up mattress because she wanted the king sized bed that we bought together (for $2500) to herself. I was sweating buckets and sticking the plastic on the mattress so I tried to slip into the bed without waking her up. I was tired. It was 3 in the morning. She woke up and started freaking out at me, calling me an ___hole. I told her to F off and that was the last time I saw her. We talked about it over the phone for months. But, it was always my fault. I wasn't committed enough. There were 'structural' issues in our relationship that couldn't be resolved without living together (she is a sociologist... .never get involved with a sociologist).

Ok. Enough back story. The only thing I really miss is the sex. The sex was insane. Right out of a porn movie. Not all the time. Sometimes she would have to 'connect' with me before having sex and she would try to stare deep into my eyes for hours, which totally freaked me out. But, when it was on, it was on. She was/is incredibly beautiful. She was the physical epitome of everything I would ever want. And sexually, she was my fantasy girl in real life. Seriously. Everything I could ever want (minus the freaky need to 'connect' and 'be in love'.

Now I'm stuck. The only thing that gets me excited sexually is thoughts of her. I see her in everything I do. I fantasize about her all the time. I can't seem to stop. And I feel terrible about it every time. I feel like I've lost the most amazing thing in the world. It completely distorts my vision and makes me incredibly depressed.

I tried to go no contact and for about 4 weeks, there wasn't any contact. I told her not to call me, not to email me, or anything for at least 60 days. She called me 4 weeks later from a blocked number and I was stupid enough to talk to her. We had a pretty good talk but then she started telling me how much she missed my body and especially a certain body part... .And then she said "is that inappropriate' and then giggled and then got off the phone. All I could do was start thinking about getting back together with her. Like she hooked me and I was back in. For the next 10 days, all I could do was think about planning to be with her. She kept emailing me saying she wished I was there and how much she missed me. And all the while, I KNOW she is in another relationship (she told me so about 6 weeks after we broke up). I called her 10 days later and asked her why she was calling me and why she was saying these things. She just told me that she missed her best friend and had no intention of ever being 'romantically' involved with me. She then told me that she called me out of loving and kindness for me. I told her to never call me again. So far, she hasn't.

Oy... .This has been a lot longer than I thought it would be. I know the hook for me with her was the sex. Has anyone else had the experience of having crazy mind-blowing sex and have gotten over it? I really, really hope that some of you out there might have some experience. This is literally making me insane. It is all I can think of. And when I do, I beat myself up for not 'committing' to her like she demanded because maybe then she wouldn't have been so crazy and I could have kept the crazy sex. I miss it so much! Blarg!

Please help!

[barbazza]

oh buddy your story sounds very similar to mine. i have been seperate officially since june/july last year and we last had sex in febuary i think. i miss it so much and her. she also "just wants to be friends" and does the whole flirt i want you back behaviour before holding you at a distance. i think i have moved in that i accept it is over, but i have absolutely no desire to be in another relationship. ive had other woman throw themseves at me and i feel nothing to them, infact i often think if i did do anything with someone else it would feel like i cheated on her. any sexual urge i get, i have to imagine her or something we did together in order to get turned on. porn searches have to be very specific to remind me of her etc etc you get the picture

[Tausk]

I understand.  I understand.  By physical standards, I wasn't in the same league as my ex and she was incredibly passionate with me.  I wrote the next paragraph about my ex in my therapy.

I now understand my emotions are so strong and the hooks of attachment are so deep with my exBPDgf.  It’s more than just the mirroring behavior. That of course added and the highs and lows touched my insecurities on a deep level.  But there is more.  I believe that the intensity is also due to the fact that emotionally she’s just a small child in a highly reactive state, and as a result the generated emotions are pure and stark like cold water from a high mountain waterfall.  Compounding the intensity is that fact that these unadulterated feelings rush through her body and soul with the intensity of a passionate woman.  And moreover, because she doesn’t ever emotionally mature, each time she experiences emotions it’s like a new experience, like when a child tastes chocolate ice cream for the first time.   I was impossible for me with my limited understanding of what was happening, not to become swept up, overwhelmed and lost in the tidal wave of physical and emotional ecstasy.   


Before I wrote the above and worked out my feelings, for the longest time I just was doubled up in pain when physically thinking about how much I missed her.  But if you're sure that your ex has BPD, like I'm sure that mine does, then for me what has made the difference is that I now know that she's just an emotionally underdeveloped child.   Maybe four or five years old at best.  The feelings are real, raw and unfiltered from her, but having sex with her is like having sex with a child or a girl with autism or down syndrome.  I couldn't have sex with a girl with down's syndrome no matter how hot she looked and how good she was at sex. And now I see that the great sex was with my ex, was just like giving ice cream to a five year old.  A five year old in pure terror at that.   

Yeah it calmed her terror for the moment, and yes it felt good for me, but the sex was still with a child with no real memories, experiences or emotional depth to reflect the experience to me as an adult. 

Even if she came back to me today with no further history and wanted to explore her issues, I don't think that I could have sex with her knowing that she's really just mentally challenged little girl in terror. 

Another way of looking at it for me is that it's similar to men who buy 12 year old starving prostitutes in war torn countries.  No matter how good it feels, it's bad for the soul.   

[bpdspell]

Jamie,

Many of us on here can completely relate to your feelings of obsessiveness over no longer having our voids filled with empty distracting sex. It really boils down to your life vs. a most fantastic orgasm. Which is worth more to you?



We have to think of the sex as what it is: a drug and an addiction. And this addiction is worth breaking. For our ex's it was something that was used to keep us and themselves hooked into the fantasy. Do yourself a favor and step out of the fantasy and into the reality of the totality of who she is: a woman suffering with a crippling, debilitating undiagnosed mental illness.

I like you missed the sex long after the relationship ended but I now see it for what is was: a way to keep his hooks in me to keep the game of meeting his needs going. I was all to willing to sacrifice parts of my self to keep the charade going but at some point in the game we have to accept that the crazy comes with the sex. The problem is that that crazy is debilitating and unfortunately you cannot compartmentalize the two. BPD and porn star sex usually come hand in hand. Being with them only for sex only objectifies them like they objectify us.

Just think about it.  BPD comes with narcissism, entitlement, objectification, stealth abuse, and downright negativity. This disease robs relationships of ever actualizing their full potential. If there is a future (and that's a small if) in these relationships... .it'll more than likely be a bone rotten one. And let's just say a rotten future is not worth the price of the BPD porn ticket.

My ex was super handsome: a sexy jawline, six pack abs, awesome arms and let's just say that his overall physique makes him a stud. I was physical attraction like I've never experienced and I honestly allowed this superficial part of me cloud my judgement. I paid more attention to the bedroom antics than I did to his character and it was a huge learning lesson for me. I almost allowed his superficial beauty to ruin me.

So what can help with your addiction? By understanding BPD better. By understanding that as amazingly attractive as our ex's are on the surface; they are mentally ill on the inside. And the inside is what counts.

I also can add that we sometimes give them way more credit than they deserve when it comes to sex. We have to remember that good sex is a 50/50 deal and that we're a part of that too.

[willy45]

Hey Guys,

Thanks. It is good to know there are others out there that feel the same way.

I'm pretty sure my ex had BPD. It is really the only way I can understand her behavior. And the sex was crazy hot but almost too hot to be healthy... .you know what I mean? Like completely out of the hottest porn you've ever seen. I can't even watch porn anymore because it reminds me of her. The only girls I find hot are the one's that look and act exactly like her, which is most of the hot porn chicks.

I like the metaphors you wrote. That makes a lot of sense. Sometimes I would feel like I she was just acting and manipulating me. Other times she seemed so into it I couldn't believe it. Other times she would withhold sex until I could look deeply into her eyes to 'connect'. She would tease me incessantly for hours and then tell me that we couldn't have sex because she didn't feel connected to me. It would drive me crazy. We would be hanging out for days on end having fun and then before having sex she would grab my head and force me to look deeply into her eyes. I would always try to avert my eyes because whenever I looked deeply into her eyes, all I could see was crazy. It is funny that you mention that part about the 5 year old kid. After we broke up and 4 weeks later she had 'moved on' (her words), she told me not to be sad because she wasn't a fully formed adult. Every now and again throughout our relationship she would be totally lucid and blurt out these really strange things. She told me she didn't have any really close friends because she was afraid that they would reject her. Stuff like that.

Blarg. I guess you have to take the good with the bad and leave the bad with the good. Looking back, the only thing that really kept me there was the insane sex. Everything else was total chaos and drama. But... .the sex... .arg... .

Anyhow, I'm really hurting over this and I can't seem to stop. Every time I think I'm getting over it, she calls or emails me and it just starts right back up again. I thought the last time I email her and told her to never, ever, ever under any circumstances call me or email got through because she didn't contact me for 4 weeks. And then this. The phone call from unknown number and the sexy talk and then the shock that I would be confused.

[willy45]

Hi BPDSpell,

Thank you so much for your reply. That was really thoughtful and very helpful. You are right. I do need to look at the whole package, including myself. When my ex contacted me and I was thinking about getting back together with her, it was making me sick. It made me feel ill, like I was being drawn into something like an addiction I was trying to quit. And you are right. It isn't a good relationship when the other person is just an object. At first it totally was and then I tried my best to make it a real relationship (as did she, I'm sure) but towards the end, it was just that. Sex. And that is what hooked me. All the screaming at me and calling me mean names and strange acting out and weird behaviors (I'm pretty sure she was cheating on me... .) were all overlooked. Stupid, I guess. Maybe I'm just going through withdrawal?

[bpdspell]

Maybe I'm just going through withdrawal?

Withdrawal is a great way of seeing it. Plus you aren't no contact so any communication with her will re-open old wounds. Don't answer blocked calls and close this chapter in your life's book for good. It may seem radical but taking this action is worth breaking your addiction for. Right now you're weak and there's a broken part of you that wants to use her sex as medication for your brokenness. But we both know that sex has never cured an addiction.

Have you considered speaking with a T?

I had to go completely NC with my ex. It hurt too much knowing that he was sleeping with other woman, missing him, and accepting the reality of his sickness. The reality of it all can be overwhelming. At times it was too much to bear because I really loved him and wanted to make a broken thing work. I dreamed of makeup sex with him when I didn't want to deal with my hurt. The sex we had was last string of glue that kept us together. When it snapped; I snapped and I didn't want to face the feelings behind the snap. I hope that makes sense.

Ask yourself... .what feelings are you trying to run away from and replace with porn star sex?

[willy45]

Hi BPD Spell,

That is really helpful. Thanks again. That is a really good question. What am I scared of? Why does it feel like I can't live without it? This is something I'm going to work on for sure.

I do have a T that I'm working with. I also am going to try to see another one who specializes in BPD and sex addictions. My other T is a woman and it feels a bit uncomfortable talking about this with her. The other is a guy who specializes in this stuff, so maybe that will work better.

Strange to think that one can be sexually addicted to one person.

Thanks for the great insight though. Definitely something I will work on.

[TonyK]

Hi, Jamie. Just wanted to add that, yes, the sex is indeed extraordinary with these women. And, IMHO, that is the strongest attachment ''tool'' they possess over the men they get involved with. I was simply overwhelmed by her power in that section and still missing it very much. We've broken-up six months ago and I'm NC almost three of them now. She never contacted me since day 1 of our brake-up. Despite being ''the love of her life'', ''the greatest lover she ever had'', etc. The usual story, I guess... .Anyway, try to remember that pwBPD reflect back to us what WE want to see in THEM. They have a very, very well developed instinct/talent, to actually feel what we think of as ideal in a woman (the looks, the sexual behaviour, etc) and they manage to ''incarnate'' this ideal/fantasy icon. That is, of course, during the ''idealization'' phase. That's the catch! Once they achieve this, we are their's for life... .Nice talking to you and stand your ground... .

[OnceConfused]

Jamie:

Sex is a beautiful part of a r.s. but good sex alone does not make a r.s. last.

You need to empty your cup so that new fresh tea can be poured in.

Go out, find new friends, find new activities where you can meet new people and go on dates.

[willy45]

Thanks! Yeah. I have been going out and I actually met a really great girl. Super great and well balanced. My main issue is that I just can't seem to stop fantasizing about my ex. It is not even like my ex was that much better looking than the girl I met. But the sex just doesn't compare. I feel like my ex has cast some kind of spell on me and I can't separate sex from her anymore. It sucks.

[MaybeSo]

As a sociologist,' she may have actually had some good points, structurally, the R/S was being held together by an addiction. Structurally thats a problem.

This theme is one of the most common I read on this board.

You might want to recover from your addiction before dating and involving yourself in another entanglement.

[willy45]

Yeah. I hear you. I'm a sociologist too by training... .

What she meant by that was that we couldn't sort things out because I was always putting her at a distance. I never moved in with her. Never proposed. Never really integrated her into my family. But, I kept telling her that I didn't thinking moving in and getting engaged was a good idea until we could stop fighting with each other. These were the structural problems. She just thought if I moved in and we got engaged, that everything would be magically great. I thought that they would get un-magically worse. It really worried me that she would just blame the 'structural problems' which was basically code for blaming me for her raging behavior because I 'caused' it by not moving in and getting engaged. So when she would rage at me for petting a dog instead of her, it was because of 'structural problems' (i.e. my lack of commitment). When she would rage at me picking her up 10 minutes late, it was because of 'structural problems'. When she would rage at me for rolling over in the middle of the night, it was because of 'structural problems'. My argument was that moving in together and getting engage would probably cause more of her 'structural problems' and if we couldn't figure them out when we weren't living together, then they would likely get worse.

But, you are right. If I wasn't addicted to the crazy sex, I would never have been seduced into her life. Even when we started, everything about the situation was awful and scary. She was dating a guy that was 30 years older than her who was a raging alcoholic. I was in another relationship. I knew of at least 4 guys that she cheated on her 30 year old boyfriend with (including me) and of course all the sad, sad stories about her life and her constant drama. Still wasn't enough to keep me away. The sex was that good. Yes, indeed I have a problem. And yes, I almost got sucked in again a few weeks ago. I guess I wanted to know if anyone else has had this happen and what they did to get over it. Or am I just 'screwed' (pardon the pun)

[OnceConfused]

Jamie:

Great sex or average sex is a STATE OF MIND, my friend. If the sex was so so good and so important in any r.s , why she cann't keep any men around?


you were right in recognizing the structural problem before moving in or proposing to her. A beautiful lady with great body and great sex does not necessarily equate to a happy marriage. Did you see the wives from beverly hills. This guy married to this beautiful looking woman, only to find himself hanging from the rope because of the debt burden. She threw a $50,000 birthday party for their 10 yrs old daughter. They lived in a mansion which they cannot afford. At age 45, he finally decided to hang himself. 

I had great sex with the xBPDgf but I was always waiting for the other shoe to drop.  Was that constant "walking on eggshells" worth the great sex? NO.

As a matter of facts, after leaving the xBPDgf I met my now wife, who is what the xBPDgf was NOT. OUr sex life is beyond great, it is DIVINE because she cares how I feel and I care how she feels. The divinity comes from a trust that I won't have a knife on my back.

[MaybeSo]

Women w/BPD (and some without) can easily succomb to the idea that all their happiness and needs comes from outside of themselves, if they just look right, dress right, and provide the right kind of sex, then their Prince Charming will sweep them off their feet and make their life a fairy tail dream... .when it doens't work out that way, they get pretty unhappy and disapointed and the instinct is to blame it on THAT person who didn't live up to the fantasy.

Men (disordered or not) often succomb to the idea that if they just get themselves a gorgeous woman to have on their arm, that looks a certain way, and who meets all of their sexual fantasies and dreams, that his needs for happiness and wholeness will be met and she will make his life whole and complete.  When that doesn't work, they get pretty unhappy and disapointed and the instinct is to blame it on THAT person who didn't match up to the fantasy.

Both (men and women, disordered or not)  are laboring under the false belief that they need someone or something from outside them to fill them-up and make them 'feel' whole and happy and make their life a dream.

Have a relationship with yourself first, know yourself first,  know how to make yourself happy first, learn about relating in a healthy way and with healthy boundaries, deal with your own addictions, learn how take care of your own emotional needs first, ... .

then along the way take your time to find another like-minded person that compliments your life and your values.

All of that takes a lot of time and a lot of thought. 

And, it's not nearly as provocative, intense, or instantaneously 'sexy' as what most of us have been through, but it's what works. 

and that's the whole point, right?

[Waddams]

Both (men and women, disordered or not)  are laboring under the false belief that they need someone or something from outside them to fill them-up and make them 'feel' whole and happy and make their life a dream.

Have a relationship with yourself first, know yourself first,  know how to make yourself happy first, learn about relating in a healthy way and with healthy boundaries, deal with your own addictions, learn how take care of your own emotional needs first, ... .

then along the way take your time to find another like-minded person that compliments your life and your values.

This.

You were/are addicted to the feeling that the mindblowing sex inspires in you.  Why does it inspire such a powerful reaction in you?  Think about that and explore it in therapy. 

In my case, it worked like this.  I had (and still do to a lesser extent, just not so strong and to an unhealthy extent I believe) a very strong need to be wanted and needed.  To feel like I mattered to someone else.  BPDx had a way of working lots of ego stroking into the mindblowing sex.  Making it seem like I was so awesome and that's why she was so into it.  In the end, I think lots of guys get hooked by a BPD woman's ego stroking, and they give us a heavy dose of ego stroking during sex.

JMHO, and it's what happened to me in my case - I got hooked by the ego stroking.  The mindblowing sex was just a medium of ego stroking delivery.

So the question I had to ask myself and address was:  Why was ego stroking so effective in ensnaring me?  What was missing in me that her ego stroking was able to temporarily satisfy?  How/why does this lead to me picking the women I pick, and why do they pick me?  And once I figured that out, what did I need to do to heal that hole in myself so and make it so I didn't need another's ego stroking so bad?  I had to go through all that so I could find a way to get into a relationsihp at some point in the future w/ a healthier woman.

Working through those questions and answers in T has been the single biggest improvement I've ever made to my life.  It literally changed my behavior and what I look for in a relationship.  It changed the sort of woman I'm attracted to, and the sort of woman that is attracted to me.  My current SO is so different from the disordered women I've always gravitated to (and that gravitated to me) in the past, and it's wonderful.  But it took a lot T to figure it out.

[myself]

I've had good sex before this relationship, during it, and will hopefully have some after. Also had good meals, good walks, good talks, etc. I miss sharing that kind of closeness with someone, too, and fantasize/think about finding that again, too. It comes down to how much abuse there is, how much pain, how much you can take. How much of a role you yourself are playing. If you focus on that last part, it helps take care of the rest of it. Look closely at the patterns. So much of this great sex came with a steep price. There was a lot of manipulation going on, a lot of giving in. Which reduces a percentage of the 'greatness', in my eyes. We can forget, while losing ourselves in the push and pull, that we were a part of the good sex that was happening. It wasn't all just them. I know I was a good lover with her, that I'm attentive, sensual, giving, loving. I will be that way with someone else, as well. It's who I am. Look inside yourself. Was it all just them, or were you there too?

[willy45]

Hi All,

Thank you for all your kind replies. I went to councilling today and my councilor said something really interesting. She talked about the idea of 'intermittent reinforcement' and how that is the strongest way to affect behavior and the hardest thing to stop. Sex at first was amazing. The best sex I had ever had. And then it was the highs and lows, incredible and then horrible. And it never followed any logic. It was totally inconsistent. She told me that they did studies on rats where they would put rats in a cage and then offer the cheese. If it was either consistently there or consistently not, the rats would be healthy. They would know when to check and when to not bother. When the cheese was placed completely inconsistently without any rhythm or logic, the rats would ALWAYS check and eventually go nuts. She explained that this is probably what happened to me. The incredible sex was like the cheese but it was so variable and without any rhyme or reason that it basically created this dependency where I am always checking, always coming back, both physically before despite the abuse, and now mentally because the physical choice is no longer available.

Anyhow, interesting to think about. Does this ring true for any of you?

[Tausk]

Your T is absolutely right on with me.  Walking on egg shells, don't know if I'm going to be left that evening or given great sex.  All without any real rhyme or reason.  It's basically how the insides of a BPD's terror filled mind is programmed.  Comes from their childhood and inability to find consistent love or bond.

So it's brought on to us as a means of control and abuse.  Mourn her, miss her, hate her, pity her, it all is OK, but just don't have ANY contact with her.  It's a drug, and addiction. You don't go to the place from where you are now after some recovery, you go to where you would have been had you never left.  It's a much darker and deeper place.  So keep yourself busy, and use positive distraction of any kind to stay away. 

[TonyK]

This.

You were/are addicted to the feeling that the mindblowing sex inspires in you.  Why does it inspire such a powerful reaction in you?  Think about that and explore it in therapy. 

In my case, it worked like this.  I had (and still do to a lesser extent, just not so strong and to an unhealthy extent I believe) a very strong need to be wanted and needed.  To feel like I mattered to someone else.  BPDx had a way of working lots of ego stroking into the mindblowing sex.  Making it seem like I was so awesome and that's why she was so into it.  In the end, I think lots of guys get hooked by a BPD woman's ego stroking, and they give us a heavy dose of ego stroking during sex.

JMHO, and it's what happened to me in my case - I got hooked by the ego stroking.  The mindblowing sex was just a medium of ego stroking delivery.

So the question I had to ask myself and address was:  Why was ego stroking so effective in ensnaring me?  What was missing in me that her ego stroking was able to temporarily satisfy?  How/why does this lead to me picking the women I pick, and why do they pick me?  And once I figured that out, what did I need to do to heal that hole in myself so and make it so I didn't need another's ego stroking so bad?  I had to go through all that so I could find a way to get into a relationsihp at some point in the future w/ a healthier woman.

Working through those questions and answers in T has been the single biggest improvement I've ever made to my life.  It literally changed my behavior and what I look for in a relationship.  It changed the sort of woman I'm attracted to, and the sort of woman that is attracted to me.  My current SO is so different from the disordered women I've always gravitated to (and that gravitated to me) in the past, and it's wonderful.  But it took a lot T to figure it out.

Thank you very much, Waddams! This was on excellent point of view, I find it really helpful and up to the point. Lots to talk about with my T during this weeks session! 

[Take2]

I just found this old post now - sorry for being late on this one but I'm not sure I had yet found these boards when this was written.  But it hits home for me.  The sex between my exBPD and I was mind blowing just as everyone else here says.  The strange thing is that it didn't start out that way - we most definitely grew to understand one another and what each other really likes.  But it became explosive.  And it is every single time.  I can remember only one bad time like I don't know almost a year ago - and it was bad because I remember him seeming to be in a totally different place - as it he were having sex with some sex object - with zero connection to me.  I was just the girl in the porno in his head.  At least that is how it felt.  And while that look is often present with him, it's always mixed with intense love for me at the same time - like I'm clearly blowing HIM away every time. 

Anyway - sorry.  I'm ALWAYS pulled back in by the sex.  Trying to break the addiction of the sex, the connection to him... .  very hard... .

[willy45]

Hi Take 2,

Thanks for the response. Yes. It is still something I struggle with but less and less. The more I work through all the terrible things in the relationship and the more I realize how much of myself I was losing, the less appealing the sex seems to be. Don't get me wrong. It is still a huge pull for me. And I still can't get myself out of it completely. But, I have seen a shift for sure where I start to think of it as another tool of manipulation. The sex was always just about her. Making herself feel better. Taking from me for her own ego. It was always just a tool for her to feel good about herself and a tool of control. Like, she will do this for me and in return, I will give her my undying love.

The strangest thing about it all is that it really wasn't all good all the time. The last few years, it was mostly about negotiating with her about it. She would demand that 'we connect' first or, in the middle, she would demand that she I look deeply into her eyes. She would say that she could only have sex if she felt connected to me. I never really understood what she was talking about. And I wonder if she said the same thing to all the other dudes she was hooking up with. Who knows.

Anyhow, the trouble I have the most right now is just picturing her as this model of perfection when really there were so many problems. I have that problem when it comes to the sex stuff and pretty much every other aspects of the relationship. I get into a mode where I think things could have been so wonderful and great and that I ___ed it all up by leaving her. I guess this is all part of the self-blame thing and forgetting that I was part of the relationship (including the mind-blowing sex).

[Take2]

You know what... .I forgot that my ex is the one who started us on that intense watching one another during sex... .although it wasn't so he could connect with me,  it was so he could watxh my reactions.

Gotta say though, its a verrrrrry connecting move for me.

And you are SO RIGHT. You ARE equally part of the amazing sex that occurred.

It wasn't just her. And that means you CAN have amazing sex with someone else.

Obviously it won't be the same but that doesn't mean it can't be as good in its own way.

I too tend to forget my role in it,  but I  taught him a lot.  Kills me now to think of how he now knows more about what a woman likes that helped make our sex so much more amazing and could be doing those things with other women... .

Its hard no matter how you cut it.

Even knowing great sex with someone else is possible, I don't want it with someone else... .

[Tausk]

For me to stop thinking about the great sex, I think about the fact that I once was surfing and found a pedophile gallery of toddler girls and boys engaged in sexual activity.  It was so disgusting and disturbing that it still makes me angry.  

But the reasons why I still fantasize about my ex regarding sex are in many ways the same reasons that pedophiles claim that young children are great as sexual partners.  Children are compliant, spiritually submissive, the kids love to please, the child's valuations is about the the feedback of satisfaction from the partner, and the predator's say the the children are actually happier and feel loved after the exchange.  Not much different than me and my ex.  

The fact that I still miss sex with my ex gfwBPD, after knowing who she is really is based on the my sickness and shortcomings of character  But I try to have compassion for myself because I know it's an addiction.

Yes the sex was great with my ex and a pure drug.  But I suspect that many on this board like myself, I've never really had sex with a person with whom I was truly intimate with, because I've never truly been intimate with a partner.  So, the mind blowing sex was partly because I was with a body of an adult without a real adult inside.   I didn't have to worry about sexually impressing a three year old.  Especially a three year old who would climax herself to make me feel happy.  All about me and my insecurities.

At the end, after two years and then learning about BPD, I couldn't have sex with my ex anymore.  I realized that it wasn't the same.  For me I was hoping that it would be about communication, bonding and sharing.  For her it was about the valuation of her existence and control, for a disordered little girl.

It was like having sex with a very hot and physical three-year old with austism.  She was great, mirrored and was compliant and loved to provide me with satisfaction, but the truth is that the times in my alcoholic youth when I was with a prostitute were in reality more honest and truthful sexual interactions than when I was with my ex.

That's why the best and highest paid prostitutes are BPDs.  They mirror and have great orgasms and bring their partner to new heights.  The physical is real on both sides, and it's why high powered execs fall in love with certain escorts.  But it's all like a drug.  No real intimacy.

For me, I stopped having sex with my ex and asked to her to try and be my friend and partner.  I knew that our only chance at a life together was learning to be apart and in counseling separately.  

But, in the most honest statement that she ever gave to me she said with great sorrow, "I don't know how to do that.  All I know how to do is have sex with you and cook and clean for you."  It was the truth, and the thought of that statement still breaks my heart today. Not for me, but for her.  It was all she could give to me.  She never the learned the skill set of an adult, so it was only physical activites that she could contribute. Never, empathy, trust, honesty, committment, partnership, growth or compassion.  

In the end, although my stopping to have sex with her was the greatest sacrifice and gift that I could give to her, she in the end interpreted the action in the only way that she knew how, and that was as a sign of abandonment and that I didn't want her.  So she triangulated and enticed a guy who had helped her move out her stuff while we were still living together and who lives a mile away from me.  I didn't find this out of course until i saw them in his hammock together.  

It almost killed me at the time, but it's ok today.  I would always want more than sex and cooking and cleaning, and she would never have been able to give it to me.  

And when I think about bringing her back just for the sex, I think that instead I should buy a five year old Cambodian girl to cook, clean and sexually service me instead.  It would be more honest.

[Blessed0329]

Schroder's Piano, that is truly very sad that she understood she did not know how to be your friend and partner. I have come to the same conclusion about my ex. We did not have sex, because we are both married, but we came awfully close several times. He worked for me and left, in part, to prevent the affair that was inevitable. Since he left in July, as I have worked very hard to maintain a friendship, it has become more and more apparent that I am the only one making an effort. I have stopped trying, and he just does not understand why I am not still there giving 100% to him while he gives virtually nothing to me. I have, of course, "abandoned" him. I realized he could be my star employee, my ardent suitor, my potential affair partner, but he is incapable of being my friend. This has been hard for me to accept. But it is the truth. They really do lead sad lives, IMO.

[Movin-on]

For me to stop thinking about the great sex, I think about the fact that I once was surfing and found a pedophile gallery of toddler girls and boys engaged in sexual activity.  It was so disgusting and disturbing that it still makes me angry.  

But the reasons why I still fantasize about my ex regarding sex are in many ways the same reasons that pedophiles claim that young children are great as sexual partners.  Children are compliant, spiritually submissive, the kids love to please, the child's valuations is about the the feedback of satisfaction from the partner, and the predator's say the the children are actually happier and feel loved after the exchange.  Not much different than me and my ex.  

The fact that I still miss sex with my ex gfwBPD, after knowing who she is really is based on the my sickness and shortcomings of character  But I try to have compassion for myself because I know it's an addiction.

Yes the sex was great with my ex and a pure drug.  But I suspect that many on this board like myself, I've never really had sex with a person with whom I was truly intimate with, because I've never truly been intimate with a partner.  So, the mind blowing sex was partly because I was with a body of an adult without a real adult inside.   I didn't have to worry about sexually impressing a three year old.  Especially a three year old who would climax herself to make me feel happy.  All about me and my insecurities.

At the end, after two years and then learning about BPD, I couldn't have sex with my ex anymore.  I realized that it wasn't the same.  For me I was hoping that it would be about communication, bonding and sharing.  For her it was about the valuation of her existence and control, for a disordered little girl.

It was like having sex with a very hot and physical three-year old with austism.  She was great, mirrored and was compliant and loved to provide me with satisfaction, but the truth is that the times in my alcoholic youth when I was with a prostitute were in reality more honest and truthful sexual interactions than when I was with my ex.

That's why the best and highest paid prostitutes are BPDs.  They mirror and have great orgasms and bring their partner to new heights.  The physical is real on both sides, and it's why high powered execs fall in love with certain escorts.  But it's all like a drug.  No real intimacy.

For me, I stopped having sex with my ex and asked to her to try and be my friend and partner.  I knew that our only chance at a life together was learning to be apart and in counseling separately.  

But, in the most honest statement that she ever gave to me she said with great sorrow, "I don't know how to do that.  All I know how to do is have sex with you and cook and clean for you."  It was the truth, and the thought of that statement still breaks my heart today. Not for me, but for her.  It was all she could give to me.  She never the learned the skill set of an adult, so it was only physical activites that she could contribute. Never, empathy, trust, honesty, committment, partnership, growth or compassion.  

In the end, although my stopping to have sex with her was the greatest sacrifice and gift that I could give to her, she in the end interpreted the action in the only way that she knew how, and that was as a sign of abandonment and that I didn't want her.  So she triangulated and enticed a guy who had helped her move out her stuff while we were still living together and who lives a mile away from me.  I didn't find this out of course until i saw them in his hammock together.  

It almost killed me at the time, but it's ok today.  I would always want more than sex and cooking and cleaning, and she would never have been able to give it to me.  

And when I think about bringing her back just for the sex, I think that instead I should buy a five year old Cambodian girl to cook, clean and sexually service me instead.  It would be more honest.

[LilMe]

The sex has been a big issue for me too. We had amazing sex every day for nearly 10 years. When I finally left because of the alcoholism and physical abuse, sex was never the same again. We were in counseling and trying to work things out. I moved back and we had another baby. But I could tell he wasn't into it anymore.
Looking back, I feel awful for what my children went through because of our relationship. I thought the great sex was love. It was not. UBPD still tries to get me to have sex with him, but I now realize it is not real and only a manipulation tool for him. I still love and care for him (which is really sick of me!) and feel like I will never trust anyone else enough to have sex, but time does appear to be healing. The pain is lessening, day by day, in spite of the fact that I cannot go no contact because of our children. I suspect I would be a lot farther along in my healing if I could go NC.
The sex truly is an addiction and that is how I am dealing with it. I hope things are getting better for all of you!

[lovenature]

I beat myself up for not 'committing' to her like she demanded because maybe then she wouldn't have been so crazy and I could have kept the crazy sex. I miss it so much! Blarg!

Actually she would have likely gotten worse with the push/pull behaviour, her saying the problem was you not being committed is just an excuse to put the blame onto you, and deep down it is projection because sadly the closer you get to a PWBPD, the more they push you away.

[Movin-on]

I keep reflecting on this post more than any other... .sex with my pwBPDex was intense, we looked into each others eyes, but there was nothing crazy/unusual about it.  Looking back, she gave the impression that she was inexperienced, shy in bed, needed to be led by me, made me feel like I was showing her how wonderful sex could be.  Looking back, I think that was mirroring, really really effective mirroring.  I doubt she was as innocent and shy and inexperienced as she led me to believe,  I just wanted her to be that way, and so she was. 

[Anez]

This is so smart and so spot on.

I now understand my emotions are so strong and the hooks of attachment are so deep with my exBPDgf.  It’s more than just the mirroring behavior. That of course added and the highs and lows touched my insecurities on a deep level.  But there is more.  I believe that the intensity is also due to the fact that emotionally she’s just a small child in a highly reactive state, and as a result the generated emotions are pure and stark like cold water from a high mountain waterfall.  Compounding the intensity is that fact that these unadulterated feelings rush through her body and soul with the intensity of a passionate woman.  And moreover, because she doesn’t ever emotionally mature, each time she experiences emotions it’s like a new experience, like when a child tastes chocolate ice cream for the first time.   I was impossible for me with my limited understanding of what was happening, not to become swept up, overwhelmed and lost in the tidal wave of physical and emotional ecstasy.