Struggling with recovery..

[Anju]

Hi all...

I was referred to this board by Vivek  and Surnia...

I broke up with my partner of six years for the second and last time five months ago. The main reason is his actions never matched his words. He was bad at keeping promises. He has a tendency of throwing things around me, shouting at me (in private and in public), physically restraining me and calling me out with vulgar words (stupid, dumb, bhit, bloody piece of dirt, arrogant, selfish - his favourite choice of words). He blames all situations and his bad behaviour on me, and frequently said that I was the reason why he raged at me. God forbid if he received a traffic ticket, or wasted $50 on lottery tickets. He would blame those on me too, saying that I never made him wear his seat belt or stopped him from buying those tickets. He has attempted to control my expenses (controls what I order for meals) and my outings with friends (gets angry and says that I don’t spend enough time with his family). He never attempts to listen to my opinions, calls my opinions rubbish and always cuts me off mid-sentence, preferring instead to listen to his family and friends, especially his mom. He adores (?) his mom. His mom attempted to interfere in my activities quite a number of times, pouting and throwing tantrums when I don’t spend dinner or outing time with them. My ex has threatened to kill me or commit suicide many times when I attempted to break up the first few times. He cries, throws tantrums and turns violent when things don’t go his way. My achievements mean nothing to him. He always manages to make me cry on my special days (birthdays, convocations, award ceremonies – I am a top student).

I always remembered the good in him, and attributed everything to a bad day at work, his mom’s controlling ways, etc. So I let the abuse happen to me again and again. He is so charming and friendly to those people outside of our relationship, and people worship the ground he walks on. He especially thrives on the attention females give him. All these had made me confused, as I continually doubted what I was actually feeling: that there is something wrong with him.

When I got back with him after the first break-up (after much wooing and apologies from him), I became pregnant almost immediately. He wanted the baby very badly, so after much discussion, we decided to get married. We had planned for a registration, and also for the parents to meet. I don’t really know what happened on his side (he said his mom pressured him), but he then threatened to not marry me, if our parents did not meet (we are Asians by the way). Throughout the six years, this was the lightbulb moment for me, as I knew he did not have my best interests at heart. So I left.

I just recently found out, through the internet, that he could be suffering from a personality disorder (BPD or NPD, either one or both). But I still love him. My heart is at odds with my head. I miss him a lot, and sometimes wish that he would come back. I keep remembering the good times we had, and sometimes wonder if I had made a foolish mistake by leaving him. I can’t bear thinking of him with another person. I can’t focus on my recovery. I can’t focus on me. It has been five months of torture. I can’t let him go out of my mind. I now have the tendency of thinking that I was the problematic one, that if I tried harder, things would have turned out fine.

Help.

[seeking balance]

 Welcome to the leaving board.

It is very common that our heart & heads are not aligned when we find ourselves here.  The first step in figuring it all out is really knowing where we are in the detachment process... .look to the right... .5 stages of detachment.

Where are you now?

Peace,

SB

[truly amazed]

Hi Anju,

The description of what happened to you during the relationship is not one which is normal. I like you was in a relationship with someone in my case I am 100% sure has BPD via a psychiatrist telling me. Like you I struggled with the stages of detachment as seeking balance has pointed out. One thing which helped me early on with dealing with seeing the relationship with eyes that were clouded with the absence makes the heart grow fonder eyes was  writing a list of things that happened during the relationship. The bad things, the manipulation the abuse, the rages, the violence and the threats.

When I felt the heart stings being pulled and missing my ex, I read the list and remembered more realistically what had happened. We tend to look as we miss someone and forget the bad times or even remember them ... .but sadly for me and it sounds like you, you deserved to be treated better and with respect and kindness and patience not with anger or bullying or abuse.

Wishing you well take care   

[Anju]

Seeking Balance: I'm stuck somewhere in the first, second and third stages of recovery. I'm actually having trouble with acknowledgement. I keep thinking, why me? I gave him my all. I did my best, always pandered and submitted to anything he wants. I thought that this was the right thing to do. And it was never enough. He used to say, I never loved him enough, I don't know what is love. I believed him. I thought I was being harsh to him, by asserting my needs.

Truly Amazed: I did think of all the issues that happened to me during the relationship, but I'm afraid it makes me feel victimised. I don't want this sadness or slacking in my life anymore. I'm tired of it. How do I move on from here? I was actually okay in the first three months of the breakup, but the last two has been terrible, as I started reminiscing the past, and my self-esteem really plummeted in the two months, as I started internalising the blame. I'm actually thinking of ways that I could have saved the relationship now. I have no idea how my feelings took a nose dive. I don't want to feel this way...

[seeking balance]

Seeking Balance: I'm stuck somewhere in the first, second and third stages of recovery. I'm actually having trouble with acknowledgement. I keep thinking, why me? I gave him my all. I did my best, always pandered and submitted to anything he wants. I thought that this was the right thing to do. And it was never enough. He used to say, I never loved I'm actually thinking of ways that I could have saved the relationship now. I have no idea how my feelings took .

I remember thinking "why me" too.  I did everything I could... .eventually the more that I read here, the more I could acknowledge this did happen and there was likely nothing I could have done differently, I was able to let go and accept this really did happen.

These relationships can be so consuming that by the time we find ourselves here, we have no idea what we really think or even if it was real.

Be kind and patient with yourself.  As the calm starts to happen, you will begin to sort through your own feelings.

[truly amazed]

Truly Amazed: I did think of all the issues that happened to me during the relationship, but I'm afraid it makes me feel victimised. I don't want this sadness or slacking in my life anymore. I'm tired of it. How do I move on from here? I was actually okay in the first three months of the breakup, but the last two has been terrible, as I started reminiscing the past, and my self-esteem really plummeted in the two months, as I started internalising the blame. I'm actually thinking of ways that I could have saved the relationship now. I have no idea how my feelings took a nose dive. I don't want to feel this way...

Howdy,

well a tough question as they all are at times. I am not a victim, I was there and allowed it to happen to me. Simple as that ... .yes in some ways a victim when I looked and  at the situation one way yes easy to play the victim. I am not a victim, but in some ways yes ... .I know it doesn't makes sense but have no desire to be the victim or play that role for anyone to garner sympathy or help. But yep did need help after what happened. I was a doormat and this being my role ... .it was an active role and nothing was stopping me walking away at any stage.

As to second guessing if only I did this or did that ... .there is absolutely nothing you may have done which would have likely changed the outcome. In many ways it was something called a pathological double blind where it in reality did not matter how you answered a question it would always have been wrong. Heads you loose ... .tails you loose ... .refuse to play ... .you loose.  Like you I went down this path ... .and I do remember having a rage session about something for totally different reasons and then it being raised post relationship in another light. But the answers were totally different and my response would not have mattered because I used all three possible ones and was still wrong.

It is not possible or highly unlikely no matter what you did the outcome would be any different. Sorry but a harsh reality. if you did something different and allowed a boundary to be smashed, next time it went there there is no boundary left in place. If you enforced it, changed the subject did whatever the same outcome likely eventuates.

For me an aside but a sticking point was my refusal to marry my ex whilst she was having violent rages every 10 days or so. She left me for another whilst still discussing marriage and moved in with him 7 days latter, her excuse my inability to marry her and accept abuse as a norm. I was some sort of commitment phoebe ... .the truth usually emerges and it turns out she had been cheating with the replacement likely for 12 months. So again the pathological double blind comes back, if I said yes it involved me allowing abuse in all forms as the norm, i said no it is somehow my problem, i delayed it and again used as an excuse for her leaving. Truth of the matter one barrier or boundary I am sure i would have enforced is if i found her cheating ... .and she already was.

The above not important other than looking at a problem or discussion or argument and the possible outcomes and how in most cases it doesn't matter what you do the end is somewhat the same and trying to go if only I did this or did that ... .involves choices but the outcome is usually the same.

Hope some of that makes sense ?   

Be kind to you, take ownership of your actions and role. Then that list and see things for what they were ? Not sure if that helps you but it did for me and was a real eye opener to have it in black and white.

Take care   

[Anju]

Thank you Seeking Balance and Truly Amazed for your time. I am feeling slightly better in the last few days, as I took some time off to watch a movie, read a book and also busied myself with some volunteering jobs. I think all that helped a little in my emotions.

As to second guessing if only I did this or did that ... .there is absolutely nothing you may have done which would have likely changed the outcome. In many ways it was something called a pathological double blind where it in reality did not matter how you answered a question it would always have been wrong. Heads you loose ... .tails you loose ... .refuse to play ... .you loose.  Like you I went down this path ... .and I do remember having a rage session about something for totally different reasons and then it being raised post relationship in another light. But the answers were totally different and my response would not have mattered because I used all three possible ones and was still wrong.

It is not possible or highly unlikely no matter what you did the outcome would be any different. Sorry but a harsh reality. if you did something different and allowed a boundary to be smashed, next time it went there there is no boundary left in place. If you enforced it, changed the subject did whatever the same outcome likely eventuates.

I experienced this many, many times in my relationship. I never knew it for what it was until recently when I started educating myself on BPD and NPD. There was practically nothing that I could do right in his eyes. It is unbelievable, now when I think of it. How can a person go so low to such levels, just to bring another person down? And the best part was, I was so naive, I didn't see it as a controlling method at all. I just used to do things as he requested, as it was how he wanted things to be. I respected that. Simple requests. Doing laundry. His white shirt had a 'pink stain' which only he could see (for the life of me I couldn't see any stain at all, but i doubted my perception as I am colour-blind). I then soaked his shirt in water for a day, and he frequently came over to check on what I was doing, till I told him off, I said that I knew what I was doing, so leave me alone. He was not happy about the telling-off, but he made me feel incompetent, even at doing the laundry.

My goodness. The nerve of some people...

[Anju]

Whoops not so good at using quotes yet

[willy45]

Yeah... .Welcome!

I've been out 5 months as well. And yes, I still struggle. I have some good days. I have some horribly bad days. And yes, it is confusing. It sounds like your ex was much more abusive than mine although I guess it is hard to put abuse on a scale. Mine would rage at me too and then blame me for the rages (my tone, my lack of commitment, my grogginess in the morning, my moving around while sleeping, my 'not being nice to her', etc... .). All the while, I'm seeing this person as just temporarily nuts who will eventually return to normal. And yes, it is very, very confusing. I spent 7 years with my ex. And we had great times together. But, I had to take the courage to leave. And it sounds like you are as well. Good for you.

This board has been really helpful for me to vent, get advice, see that I am not alone. It is confusing though, for sure. But try to take it easy on yourself (advice I really need to take too!). You will get through this and know deep down that you left because of your self respect and that you value yourself. These are very healthy and good traits that you can now nurture. You've done well!

[Anju]

Thank you Johnny Organic. I hope you are doing well too.

My ex would not be angry if i agree to follow his ways without questioning his decisions. It was just that recently I have started noticing that I'm at the bottom of the food chain, with the top being his mom. I started questioning, asserting my wants, and he gets angry with that, saying that I'm uncooperative with him. At one point he even told me, 'if you were in a relationship with other guys they would have dumped you a long time back with the problems you are giving me now'. I just really wonder how do people say things like that to the persons they love. Saying stuff like that just doesn't cross my mind. It takes a lot to say hurtful things to another person. But the ex could just say the meanest things, without feeling remorse.

It's true I left to preserve my self-respect. I cannot see any other way of continuing with the relationship when he gave me the marriage ultimatum. Give in, I lose my self-respect, if I don't give in, I lose my self-respect as well. I created a third option, and just completely removed myself from the situation. It hurts, but I know I have made the best decision for myself in that situation. No more manipulations.

I just hope he doesn't go around smearing my name in the dirt. Sometimes I just wish he'd drop dead somewhere. For the conniving liar that he is, and for hurting me. But things just don't work that way.

[DepressIsolatedMeg]

I now have the tendency of thinking that I was the problematic one, that if I tried harder, things would have turned out fine.

I often think this way. Actually I'm still thinking this way. Just read the article about codependency... .

"The simple fact is, the codependent person is an unavailable partner. He becomes this way in three respects:

1. He becomes self-absorbed: It is hard to be really there for someone else when your arms are always around yourself in feelings of grandeur, heroism, self-sacrificial claims, self pity, and indignation.

2. He feeds off his partner's character and subsequently develops none of his own: When one creates in themselves a codependent inner nature they lose much of their own identity, taking on the emotions and feelings of their partner. Although a healthy amount of codependency is good for a relationship, an overly codependent person becomes a 'non-person', and teaches his partner to not recognize him, for 'he' really, truly doesn't exist! This means that, as a codependent, one loses their own identity—and without an "I"dentity you are essentially a nobody, and how can 'nobody' be anywhere, let alone in a relationship and by their wife's side? How can one love 'nobody'?

3. He unknowingly teaches his partner that everything is about 'her': Another thing a codependent person does is to teach their partner to be selfish and self-serving. Since, to a codependent person everything is about the act of doing for the other person (remember, this is his illusion), and that nothing is about them (again, his illusion), they subconsciously condition the other person to come to expect all their needs to be met by the codependent person, in as much as the codependent person, themselves, does focus on meeting all their partner's needs—but carrying resentment about it. They subconsciously train their partner's to become selfish, expectant, and self-gratifying."

What the article described was exactly how I was when I was with him. And I just realized "I'm an unavailable partner", I began to believe that I really wasn't doing enough.

[truly amazed]

My ex would not be angry if i agree to follow his ways without questioning his decisions.

At one point he even told me, 'if you were in a relationship with other guys they would have dumped you a long time back with the problems you are giving me now'.

But the ex could just say the meanest things, without feeling remorse.

It's true I left to preserve my self-respect. I cannot see any other way of continuing with the relationship when he gave me the marriage ultimatum. Give in, I lose my self-respect, if I don't give in, I lose my self-respect as well. I created a third option, and just completely removed myself from the situation. It hurts, but I know I have made the best decision for myself in that situation. No more manipulations.

I just hope he doesn't go around smearing my name in the dirt. Sometimes I just wish he'd drop dead somewhere. For the conniving liar that he is, and for hurting me. But things just don't work that way.

Well said ... .I also was forced into option three on marriage via my actions and standing my ground ... .my ex left me. i do understand it was not a solution either way even if I did do it things would have got worse not better. marriage was a barrier and refusing to marry whilst stuff was going on was one of the last barriers I had intact.

I note with wry amusement the shrinks are coming up with new classifications as to how to identify a person with BPD. The debate is to try and get more of them identified and treated, it even is going in circles here and its circling around trying to identify the causes vs treatment. Honestly I suspect less than half of those even with a strong BPD around 8 out of 9 of the old criteria actually ever get treatment and its not until they inflict self hard they fall into the system.

Your comment about the ex saying the most horrible things to you and possibly actually doing the same without remorse is sadly a simple way to check for empathy and remorse and even conscience. As adults sometimes we do and say things we regret and take ownership for them and make amends. With a person with BPD they at times are totally forgotten, blanked out of their memory , at others they are totally justified in their minds and in others they just simply don't understand the pain it can cause. If they are made aware of it sometimes you will get an apology but they really don't understand or can comprehend feelings in others ... .or the other two options. Of course it can and does often trigger another episode hence the term walking on egg shells.

Lastly if they do smear your name and its quite often it happens not a thing one can do about it. History at times is totally re written in the persons mind to justify actions, even where the actions came from are turned around and you are the person who did the horrible act. Not a thing you can do to change this, defend yourself and there is no defense against something you didn't do. How do you prove it ? Impossible.

One just has to turn the other cheek sadly.

take care   

[Anju]

DepressIsolatedMeg

"He unknowingly teaches his partner that everything is about 'her': Another thing a codependent person does is to teach their partner to be selfish and self-serving. Since, to a codependent person everything is about the act of doing for the other person (remember, this is his illusion), and that nothing is about them (again, his illusion), they subconsciously condition the other person to come to expect all their needs to be met by the codependent person, in as much as the codependent person, themselves, does focus on meeting all their partner's needs—but carrying resentment about it. They subconsciously train their partner's to become selfish, expectant, and self-gratifying."

I was focused on meeting my partner's needs, but I wasn't resentful about it. I thought that there shouldn't be a barrier between partners when it comes to things like these. So imagine my surprise when I made requests to him, and he responded with anger, or brought up the issue much later in one of our fights. He will make it sound as if he had done a great thing for me, and I was ungrateful/selfish/arrogant for not acknowledging it. E.g. asking his help to give my mom a ride to the hospital (he has a car), asking him to place his clothes neatly back into the wardrobe (his response: can't you see that I just washed the bathroom for you), and asking him to help transport my research items from my University to a hotel (this was when I won an award as the best research student, and I had to exhibit my products. He said ok no problem, but made a sour face the whole day, and insisted that I follow him to a club that night despite my being tired as I was up since early morning to prepare my products). I don't know, there are so many examples, but I'm just beginning to see his actions as what they are, and how my silence exacerbated the whole thing.

Truly Amazed

I am bracing myself for it. It has not come, or I have not heard about it yet, and I hope it never comes.

[Anju]

I went out with a friend to dinner last night. As I was approaching a crossroad, the ex walked past me with two other ladies following me. I think he saw me, but pretended not to see me, as he was walking with his body completely positioned to the side, away from me, and towards one of the ladies.

I couldn't sleep last night. And I feel completely down, depressed and worthless today. I feel all my recovery in the last few months has gone to zero. I keep having anxiety attacks and shortness of breath.

What do I do?

[Anju]

Sorry, the ex walked past me with two other ladies following him. Lol...

[truly amazed]

What do I do?

Stay tough. Your actually doing well ... .very well. Encounters of the third kind always throw any progress we have made backwards. Hence why NC is the way and this is not about them but about you. I know for me who had many encounters with the ex post relationship despite begging for no contact they always ... .always sent me into a spin.

So did he see you ? Maybe. More than likely. It was done to elicit a response his reaction if he did. For me I did the same thing but for the opposite reason to my ex. She turned up where she knew I would be and proceeded to bait me and my friends. Next time it happened I totally ignored my ex and so too my friends. I didn't work mind you and even when she stood opposite me for 40 mins whilst I was occupied on a table glaring I didn't even look up. I was so proud of myself and a way to shut it out for me ... .was doing this very thing. As i said didn't work and at 1 am a knock on my door followed by verbal abuse until I asked her to leave or I would call the police.

don't read too much into it. If your in a small town it likely will happen again. Know what your going to do when it happens no matter what they do. for me no contact was asking them to leave, they call I hung up, they passed in the street or attempted contact ... .I just rebuffed it.

Not about anything than protecting me.

For you what hurt ? You think he may have ignored you ? Is there something your trying to resolve with him ? Is it even possible no matter how calm or rational they may appear at the time I dont think it goes anywhere.

Be kind to you and take care of you vs your ex.

Anything else bothering you ? That they may or may not smear you a sad part of life and not a thing we can do.

take care   

[Anju]

Thank you Truly Amazed.

Hurt? Yes. I used to be in love with that guy. Still am. But I know he is not who he presented himself as. I saw his face, and I remembered all the dreams I used to build with this guy. Anxiety? Because I know I don't actually mean anything to him. I was just a toy. Any female will do for him. Doesn't matter who. He will find another. He will be happy with her. I don't feel lucky at all that I've escaped his clutches.

But I think I have accepted that he will always be surrounded by females, no matter what. I will not be one of them anymore. I know I have escaped, but it's tough to maintain that mindset in my head. Hard to think of him with another person. I can do better than him. Way better than him. But at the moment, it's tough...

[truly amazed]

Thank you Truly Amazed.

Hurt? Yes. I used to be in love with that guy. Still am. But I know he is not who he presented himself as. I saw his face, and I remembered all the dreams I used to build with this guy. Anxiety? Because I know I don't actually mean anything to him. I was just a toy. Any female will do for him. Doesn't matter who. He will find another. He will be happy with her. I don't feel lucky at all that I've escaped his clutches.

But I think I have accepted that he will always be surrounded by females, no matter what. I will not be one of them anymore. I know I have escaped, but it's tough to maintain that mindset in my head. Hard to think of him with another person. I can do better than him. Way better than him. But at the moment, it's tough...

You are doing so well !

It took me ages to accept where you are now. My ex partner a female was always on the outside happy and could attract males due to her looks. That is about where it ended.

Post relationship and one where I thought I knew her very well ... .I didn't know her at all. Not even one little bit, the person you thought was there sadly was not real. It is important to separate the BPD from the person and see the illness for what it is. I did this ... .then knowing my ex would never seek treatment and the problem was someone other than her fault ... and was able to look objectively without angst at the BPD and see it for what it was. So many times I made the mistake during the realtionship of forgiving things because I thought they were from other sources ... mistaking things and reactions as being normal. They were not. I was reacting as though my partner was giving an apology or showing remorse even when it was repeated over and over. Sadly it was BPD at work.

In the end I was very much an object to be discarded. A toaster if you will. What I thought I knew about my partner ... .physical stuff ... .events was a carefully woven story of omissions and outright lies mixed with half truths. I really had no idea who she was, her past, even the real her. Quite a wake up call. Hardest of all and around BPD was actually seeing without the FOG or push pull or in the midst of an abuse session was that my ex truly did not understand empathy, or remorse or compassion or conscience. These concepts due to BPD were either not present or so buried and repressed it was like a light going off and me going oh my !

Not saying this in a bad way, she is ill and its not demonizing her or even BPD just accepting it for what it is. Yes like you I thought I was very much in love with her. As time went on it was to some extent one part PTSD and another part Stockholm Syndrome and then another part I was in love with someone I thought was my partner but it was a fiction in my mind on one part on another part she was mirroring me so I fell in love with myself. So out the other side who was I in love with ? In many ways I fell in love with myself.

Anju you mention you don't feel you don't feel lucky that you have escaped ? You still love him. In some ways despite being able to see BPD for what it is of course I still love my ex and take the good things away. Other ways I know the love whilst mature and giving and accepting one side was not mutual ... .when you love someone you forgive them for imperfections, you rejoice in their differences, you respect the other person and support and nurture and do so many things that are part of a normal healthy realtionship. With my ex I did all those things but when it was her turn ... .it was never her turn.

My own relationship with the ex was spotted with a rage session which was filled with abuse every 10 days or so. These were not things that should ever happen in a mature loving relationship. Abuse, neglect, threats, and a long list of things happened which were and are not normal. Having just read some of your posts the treatment you endured was similar to mine and similar to so many here. It is never normal to abuse someone else ... .to call you names as he did. Nor normal to act violently around you. This you already know.

As for special days, they were not about your partner ... .and as such the focus was not all on him so they spit their dummy and demand like a 2 year old for attention. Again this is BPD and Christmas, anniversaries, birthdays same thing. Expanding on that looking back now when I am truthful unless I was doing what my ex wanted she would spit her dummy. An amazing fact when you examine the facts without emotions. We go out on a planned trip to the movies, my ex really doesn't want to go so at the doors of the cinema she decides lets go here, I go ok. It sadly was never about me.

Separate your feelings and love and see things without emotion. You already know you deserved better. You deserved much better. You deserve someone who loves you for you. See's your imperfections and loves them, rejoices your differences and even big ones will discuss without abusing you and work a way forward vs what happened with the ex. I did find writing a list of the awful things that happened down, being hit, kicked, spat on, a list of verbal abuse, threats to me, my family, job, life on and on it went the list. Every time I was looking back with eyes that missed my ex as absence makes the heart grow fonder I read this list and its not something I even thought about or accepted post relationship but when I finished it it was like going oh my ! Reading your posts I think it will help you. never an excuse to call someone you know a stupid fat pig as my ex did ... .or to spit on me ... .all of them should have been deal breakers.  Silly me !

Enough rambling from me hope some of it helps.

Your doing very well ! You can see things for what they are and know.

Take care   

[Anju]

Thank you Truly Amazed...

What you have experienced in your relationship was definitely similar to mine. Festivals, celebrations and achievements were always disasters for me, as he would always finds ways to sabotage my happiness. And he would always blame them on my behaviour: 'if you hadn't done that, then I wouldn't have reacted this way'. I would have to apologise to him in the end, for ruining his day. Trips that I plan will not work out exactly as it should, as he would suggest things, or change them to suit his plans. I would always, and I repeat, always, change my plans to suit his needs. He would rage when I insisted on doing what I planned. I'm always 'selfish and arrogant'.

The rage sessions are not frequent, perhaps once or twice in a month, but when it happens, it is a full-forced storm. And the rage will be projected on me.

I used to think that he told me everything, because he would tell me long stories about his days, his friends, who he interacted with, etc. He would never ask about my day, and cut me off in mid-sentence if I actually told him something. I am now beginning to doubt the stories he told me. He could have told me these tales to cover up his real deeds of the day.

I can't really think of him and forgive him as a person with an illness. I think he knows what he did. He doesn't want to own up to his behaviour. A man-child. He is just a mean person. A very mean person.

[truly amazed]

Howdy,

Holidays birthdays and other similar things always a disaster for many with a BPD person in their lives. The focus is not on them, or the event does not live up to expectations and its your fault ... .or whatever a trigger which seems common in many peoples experiences.

I hear you about being told their days and now questioning it. Hardest for many and for me was learning the exact truth which I thought was closure. knowing what my ex had been up to and thinking from her own mother and best friend ... .was and are facts ... .but it wasn't closure it was facts and yes they hurt like hell knowing that person you thought you were with was nothing like what you knew. Don't go searching for the truth or facts, I was handed them by some kind people thinking it would help but in reality it didn't bring closure just a bit more pain. When I was past this it did bring understanding but the process of knowing the truth hurt more than it helped.

As to forgiving ... .or forgetting ... .When I first started my own journey this was my goal. Naive , childish, unrealistic I look at it now. Forgiving was about forgiving me on the main, I was there and how stupid was I, I forgave myself and being human made a mistake. In a lot of ways I forgive my ex for her actions now understanding BPD. It is how she operates it is her existence and all she knows. All about her and bugger what she does to anyone along the way. The BPD part I forgive but strangely as my ex and BPD the disease will never be separated or treated I do not forgive the whole package and am happy with this medium. I feel no anger or angst against her, somewhat like how a BPD person views someone they are in love with for me the ex is somewhat an object. 

For others its necessary for them to forgive it all, for me I failed and am happy with my own peace.

Forgetting, time heals the scars and the lessons I learnt about myself and life were hard earnt. I will not really ever forget those lessons and as such again happy with this also. I don't dwell on what happened or play the victim ... .again a mistake I allowed to happen, but having forgiven myself and stopped blaming myself ... .I view it all with peace and calm.

Yes I agree with you about their actions and one can view them as just a mean selfish cruel person and in so many ways they are. Like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum in an adults body. Yep I hear you about not forgiving them ... .for me ... .I do know on some levels my ex was aware of her actions but on others she was totally unaware or her actions at all. She once destroyed some property of mine and the next day when she saw it she asked what happened, she had no idea at all and had blocked the experience out of her mind. Other things she would swear black and blue this is what happened and in her mind I am very sure this is what she believed, post realtionship being told some crucial life events by others directly involved ... .and it was not about perspectives ... .about facts ... .who did what I was amazed to find things described to me by the ex where she was the victim ... .it was actually her being the monster.

I suppose I got a view and a good one into reality. It wasn't me being mean or taking an opinion about something ... .time and time again it was about facts and who did what. My ex told me a story where it was someone else doing these things to her, sadly reality was her doing those very things to the other person. Not something uncommon with BPD and a way of coping with their actions.

These may help ? Forgiving you is number one. Understanding BPD and separating the BPD disease vs the person helps. Then deciding what will help you deal with this and move on and grow. As to the ex, for some they are able to totally forgive in their heart the person which is fine but its not about them or telling them you forgive them because they simply would not understand.

Again sorry for the ramble just how I got there and maybe some clues as to a way forward. Be kind to you 

[DepressIsolatedMeg]

Hi Anju, I'm here today reading your post again, when I'm crying.

I mourned for the lost dream we once had. I know he's hurting and I was the one who broke the promise (that we will stay forever)

I had to leave because I was going insane, I had thoughts of hurting him because I couldn't stand his screaming and accusing. I wasn't in a normal state so I left him.

It's hurting so bad. I tried doing N/C. Last night I allowed myself to get drunk, and I actually blacked out for a few hours. During the blackout period, I called and emailed him, I expressed my anger to him and I cursed. I didn't remember doing any of those. I hated how he pushed me away, I wanted to love him and be with him, but he kept pushing me away.

I want to recover from this, although I know it's still too soon for me to move on yet, it hurts a lot. I miss him, and I don't know why. My finger is still hurting from the injured he caused (he shut a metal gate and jammed my finger by 'accident', now I'm afraid it's a bone fracture, it's been a week now, I still couldn't bend my finger fully. )

Hope you are doing well on your recovery... .

[Anju]

Truly Amazed and DepressedMeg...

Thank you so much for your kind words. I hope you guys are going through an effective recovery, and recover asap...

I felt empty and depressed today. At one point even wishing myself dead. I have no idea why the sudden dip in the mood. Truly Amazed, you mentioned that forgiving yourself is important. I guess I'm not able to forgive myself. For letting my guard down all these years. And trusting a snake, who never had my best intentions at heart.

[truly amazed]

Howdy,

Ever made a mistake ? Even a big one ? Life is about that and not seeing your ex partner for what they are is something I was guilty of. Being a total doormat with boundaries smashed time and time again ... .I was. So many things I let slide, so many things I managed to ignore. But being human I accepted I made a mistake and a huge one. We sadly do that but now knowing why I did ... .how I did it ... .it will not happen again. Well not to that extent at least . Doesn't mean i will not people in ... .or make the same choices again but with eyes open it will not be the same dance.

Depressed ? Been there and your likely a beautiful amazing person ! One of the reasons your perfect for the BPD person is that very reason that your a beautiful person and i just don't mean the outside but inside.

Are you seeing a doc or therapist ? I did post RS and was like you depressed. I even went on the pills for a while until I was better. No shame and dealing with the outfall after one of these relationships leaves us without knowing what is up or down. When your depressed everything is a mountain you cant see over and the depths just keep going. Accept that and then argue against it ! Think back and I am sure you have had a time when things were very good and without the ex ... .they will be again ! Lean on friends and family drive them nuts ! And come on here.

I spent a while and it seemed like years ruminating and going round in circles post relationship. The help from a great doc and therapist was massive. Eventually I stopped beating myself up ... .gave back what was not mine. I was blamed for everything post relationship and  not much of it was mine ... .with help I took ownership of my actions ... .gave back the ex's and then dealt with the rest. Depressed and PTSD along with a few other things I took ownership of everything ... .it was all my fault ! What bunkum it was. There were two in the relationship and for me 95% or even higher of the negative actions came from the ex. Not a good thing and still I tried owning things that were not mine. Is this you ? Going if only I did this or that ... .between that blaming yourself ... .

Remember your wonderful and go from there !   

[DepressIsolatedMeg]

Truly Amazed and DepressedMeg...

Thank you so much for your kind words. I hope you guys are going through an effective recovery, and recover asap...

I felt empty and depressed today. At one point even wishing myself dead. I have no idea why the sudden dip in the mood. Truly Amazed, you mentioned that forgiving yourself is important. I guess I'm not able to forgive myself. For letting my guard down all these years. And trusting a snake, who never had my best intentions at heart.

I wish myself dead same times too. He was someone who I love but he could be so crucial. He emailed me today and refused to pay for the repairing cost for the damage he did to my car. I was so heart broken because I got nothing from this relationship with him, but over 10k debts, a broken finger, a broken phone, a broken car, and a broken heart.

Feeling a lot better after he told me he love me too - that makes me fear for my own heart. I don't want to go back to him and live in living hell again. I hate I love him. Why would I? My therapist told me I could be addicted to pain... .

if that's true, that's a sociopathic relationship... .really. I'm scared to feel better, I keep reminding myself that I just wanted to know that he still loves me and might wait for me... .but why do I want him to wait for me? It's not like I ever want to be with him again? I can't lie to myself that I never thought about being with him again, just not right now. I'm so scared he will do something to trick me to go back... .next time I will loose all my family and friends, bc they tried to help but I keep jumping back to hell.

[Anju]

Hi everyone...

I don't know what is the feeling I'm having now. Perhaps it's acceptance, and letting go? For real?

I started feeling at peace, about two weeks back, and the feeling has been increasing since then.

I think it started after he crossed my path earlier this month. With the two ladies. I couldn't eat, or sleep the next 24 hours. Then the dread and anxiety slowly went away.

The first thought that crossed my mind each day when I wake up is "he's with someone else now". Even up to today.

I can feel in my heart that he is no longer the person I thought he was. He is no more the person I know. I don't know who he is. In fact I never knew the guy at all.

I can absolutely feel that I've made a very lucky escape now. From his entire family in fact. I have no idea how this mindset transition occurred, but it feels good to validate myself now. I also feel that he absolutely doesn't know what he had in his grasp in the last six years, as he was the luckiest man alive then, to have me. He lost me through his need to control me. He is not my concern anymore. There will always be people who will eat his bullpoop. And it doesn't have to be me. Because I have better things to do in life. Such as achieving my dreams and aspiration...

He'll never have me again. I deserve better, much better in life. I have much to give and share to everyone.

It's a weird feeling. I have no name for it. But I like it

[Anju]

Hi...

Merry Christmas to everyone...      

I've done a lot of thinking since my breakup with my ex, and I realised that my habit of getting validation from others started from my mom...

My parents did not have a good relationship. My dad worked in another state, and was in the arms of different women most of the time. I now know that he displayed classic symptoms of NPD throughout his life. He frequently dismisses others, degrades others, even us kids, and puts himself on a pedestal, saying he's the best among all. I'm studying for my Ph. D., and somehow he is still more clever than me (he hints at this often, even up to today, e.g.: "you are so smart, just like me". My mom was co-dependent, perhaps (still not sure of the symptoms)? He was verbally abusive and frequently accused my mom of having affairs. My mom was physically abused. I remember growing up walking on eggshells (I remember the feeling very well, though I couldn't name it at that time), as a child, as I didn't know when the next war would begin, and I hated it. My mom opted to stay in the relationship, for us kids. She is not highly educated, had no job at that time, and relied on my dad for financial support. So the abuse continued.

I will never forget what my mom has done for me. She has always backed me up in all situations. She was the one who paid the down payment for my college education, and made sure I finished schooling, while my dad told me to stop schooling and start looking for a job to support the family.

I was a stubborn child. So I used to be "disciplined" verbally and physically by my mom (common in Asian countries), a lot more than my other siblings. I grew up thinking that I was the most worthless among all four siblings.

I then learnt how to accommodate my mom's wishes and desires, and learnt to read her moods so that i didn't trigger an explosion by accident. I thought that I could keep her happy by doing everything possible for her: clean the house, follow her instructions, letting her decide things for me. So I couldn't really understand why her moods would turn sour when I have done everything under the sky to keep her happy. I hated that too, and the worthlessness would be overwhelming.

I actually don't have a person to air my feelings and problems to right now. I can't talk to my family. They think I should just suck it up and move on. The same goes with my friends. I am unable to talk with anyone about my feelings. No one actually listens to me. They give me their interpretation of the issue. And tell me things like "I'm in denial, I am jaded", etc. But I just want to talk. Without being judged.

I am currently keeping myself busy by doing things that I really want to do. I started getting active in my university's Lifeguard Corp., and I have just received my Awards of Merit and Distinction Lifeguard certification last Sunday. And I did this while battling my depression and anxiety attacks on a daily basis.

I go to pray occasionally. I am actively running now, joining marathons and finishing in good time. I cut my hair really short, just the way I like it. I read news, facts and nonsense on the Internet for entertainment, and to get different perspectives on life. I never did all this previously, but I'm doing them now, because I want to.

My mom doesn't like all this now. I called my family out for a movie today. None of them could make it. She asked for an outing on Friday. This was how our conversation transpired on the phone today:

Mom: Someone has forgotten to call home nowadays. Don't you know how to call home frequently?

Me: What is the issue now?

Mom: We can't come today. We are coming on Friday.

Me: I have lab on Friday.

Mom: Can't you take a half-day or something? What is this sudden loyalty to your work and activities anyway?

Me: ?

Mom: Yeah, all this swimming, running and lab activities. You have to get your priorities right.

Me: I need to do all this for my scholarship. I need the certification. All the activities are also my priorities.

Mom: You need to sit down and rethink your priorities. Your family is your priority. Don't you know how to come back home more often? Or are you going to spend your life as a loner in your campus?

Me: *at a loss for words, shocked that all my activities are an issue*

Mom: anyways we are coming on Friday. So bye.

Me: *hangs up*.

This has been going on since I was a kid. But I know now that this is not how things are supposed to be. I am 27 years of age. Why the need to control me?

I always had the need to be parented. All my best friends are my stand-in parents, and I need them to make decisions for me. I used to rely a lot on my ex (NPD+BPD traits) for the simplest of things, and to validate my decisions in life.

I want to break free from this.

I rescued a kitten two months back. I brought her home, and she is now my pet (albeit a violent one). I love her, play with her, and take good care of her. My mom is not happy that I have a pet here. She said that my priorities are wrong (?). She visited my dorm once, with my sister, to see the cat. She called her ugly, but played with her, devalued all the toys and things I prepared for my cat, and finally even said that she understands my cat better than me.

How do I break free from all this? I don't even know what am I undergoing. Whatever I do, it's never enough. I'm starting to think that I have too much to handle on my plate, a sick and moronic ex, and a control freak of a mom. And my own feelings of self-worth.

[DepressIsolatedMeg]

This has been going on since I was a kid. But I know now that this is not how things are supposed to be. I am 27 years of age. Why the need to control me?

I always had the need to be parented. All my best friends are my stand-in parents, and I need them to make decisions for me. I used to rely a lot on my ex (NPD+BPD traits) for the simplest of things, and to validate my decisions in life.

I want to break free from this.

Hi Anju,

As being an Asian myself, I totally understand how you feel the controlling from your parents. I guess it has something to do with the Asian parents? " they always want to best for me, even it's in their ways." blah blah blah.

I'm the only child... .I remember feeling walking on eggshells when I was a child and my mother was around ( she got angry very easily, and I remember feeling extremely worthless from the things she told me, always made me think I'm the worst kid in the world. She had changed as she's getting older, so now she's trying very hard to make it up to me. Still, I sometimes resented her for my low self-esteem. )

Just a couple days ago, I was feeling very sad, and I cried. My mother asked me why I was feeling sad again, I told her what I was thinking. She didn't yell at me because I cried this time ( she screamed at me last week when I was crying, threatened she's divorcing my dad if I couldn't be strong and move on. I was like ? Has nothing to do with that.) But she told me, she thinks she has nothing left in this world but ME.

All the PRESSURE and STRESS just fell down on my shoulder. I don't know if it's even right to feel this way.

BPDex often resented my parents for "controlling" me, he said they don't let me live the life I wanted. Somewhat he was right. When I was 18, I had a boyfriend, we were doing okay, but he wasn't the best guy for me (of course not. the BFs always need to be a DOCTOR/LAWYER/PROFESSOR or RICH) my mother would come in between and just started fights with my bf, and constantly put me in middle (choose bf or parents.)

Same with my BPDex. When I was doing very well with my BPDex, getting along, I went to school and he went to work, our lives weren't the best, but we were getting along and HAPPY. When we were HAPPY, that was when my mother would come in between and started fights with BPDex, and again, put me in the middle and forced me to choose (between BPDex or Parents. If I don't choose the parents, they threatened to KILL my BPDex; threatened to KILL HERSELF; threatened to get a divorce; threatened to sell their homes and break everything APART.) It was all MADNESS and too extremely, sometimes I just want to run away. (I'm 25 btw.)

BPDex and I shared a dog together. I took the dog when I moved out. My parents told me if I ever let BPDex see the dog, they would just KILL her... .I'm sneaking behind their backs and let him see the dog once a week, for an hour. They are going to raise HELL when they find out. I AM 25, and I need to LIE and SNEAK around to let my ex to see the dog.

Not to mention they CHECK ON me to see where I am at everyday. They claimed that they are worried I will go back to my BPDex again. They had NO FAITH in me whatsoever. I started to resent them more and more each day, I don't appreciate the things they have done for me, because I AM A BAD DAUGHTER anyways, I don't feel like talking to them at all. I became very quiet. I don't ever smile anymore. I feel wrong that I am acting this way toward them, they just want me to be well.

[Anju]

BPDex often resented my parents for "controlling" me, he said they don't let me live the life I wanted.

I'm sneaking behind their backs and let him see the dog once a week, for an hour. They are going to raise HELL when they find out. I AM 25, and I need to LIE and SNEAK around to let my ex to see the dog.

Not to mention they CHECK ON me to see where I am at everyday. They claimed that they are worried I will go back to my BPDex again. They had NO FAITH in me whatsoever. I started to resent them more and more each day.

That's what I used to do. Sneak around, to see my ex. He would play the ever understanding bf, always telling me that my mom was mistreating me. I used to acknowledge this fact, that my mom was controlling. However, I saw some controlling traits in his mom as well. His mom blackmails him to do her bidding all the time. And he'll do everything for her. At any cost. I absolutely couldn't talk about his mom. He would rage whenever I start asking things about his mother. Anything at all.

It was actually so, so tiring to please two important people in my life; my mom and my ex. I never asked for much in my life. Kept myself quiet and submissive.

And look at the mess in my head now.

[DepressIsolatedMeg]

BPDex often resented my parents for "controlling" me, he said they don't let me live the life I wanted.

I'm sneaking behind their backs and let him see the dog once a week, for an hour. They are going to raise HELL when they find out. I AM 25, and I need to LIE and SNEAK around to let my ex to see the dog.

Not to mention they CHECK ON me to see where I am at everyday. They claimed that they are worried I will go back to my BPDex again. They had NO FAITH in me whatsoever. I started to resent them more and more each day.

That's what I used to do. Sneak around, to see my ex. He would play the ever understanding bf, always telling me that my mom was mistreating me. I used to acknowledge this fact, that my mom was controlling. However, I saw some controlling traits in his mom as well. His mom blackmails him to do her bidding all the time. And he'll do everything for her. At any cost. I absolutely couldn't talk about his mom. He would rage whenever I start asking things about his mother. Anything at all.

It was actually so, so tiring to please two important people in my life; my mom and my ex. I never asked for much in my life. Kept myself quiet and submissive.

And look at the mess in my head now.

It was very tiring indeed. It's funny, I mentioned this to my therapist today, and she said " Your exbf sounds pretty much like your mother" and she said they(ex and mom) were both controlling me LOL Wow... .

And maybe he(your ex) adapted that controlling traits from his mother... he's tired of being controlled all the time, so now it was his turn to control --- you.

[OutsidetheHermitWalls]

Anju and DepressedIsolatedMeg,

I have found all my relationships have strong elements of both my parents.  I have not found that unique to my BPDex, however, no one played the role as perfectly as my BPDex.  I imagine that one of the qualities of the disorder is an uncanny ability to connect to our deepest wounds.  How if felt to me looking back, is I was emotionally transported back in time to childhood to re-enact the events where the original wound was created.  I am 44 and I remember a time where I was outside our home, and she had just arrived from work.  She got out of the car and we playfully chased each other around the car.  It felt childlike and free in a positive way, my friend who actually observed the event, who was in a relationship, stated he was envious watching us, though I felt great, there was also something in me that felt this did not feel real.  I dismissed it, did I not deserve this?  The point is I brought all my defenses.  Months later when she would leave after a 7 week marriage, the pain was excruciating because my vulnerability finally exposed was no reliving the nightmare of that wound.