Was it really love or was it about emotional need?

[jp254958]

I'll check out the book.  Thanks for the recommendation.  I'm sorry if my response was too reactive.

I can assure you my heart is in the right place.  I'll ponder your thoughts about helping people. It's difficult for me to grasp but I'll keep at it.

[Clearmind]

jp, we could get deep in what narcism means and doesn't mean. There are various forms of narcism and while I don't like labels many of us have some form of it.

The point of this thread is to see our role - we all stayed in abusive r/s - if we label them as high conflict and abusive can we really use the word 'love' in the true sense in the same breath?

Fact is we all want different things - high conflict arises when two people in a r/s want different things and they then try to change other persons mind instead of allowing them to be. Love is not about the potential of someone - "if they get therapy", "if they do this then they will be OK"

Many of us need to examine the meaning of true love - and start to examine if what we were doing was filling a void. Not an easy topic - it takes a lot of inquiry to understand the dynamic of these r/s  - there were two in this r/s.

Many of us compromised our own values and had loose boundaries placating our ex's, we strived to be perfect for them, we stayed -  we did everything in our power to create an illusion that we were connected to our ex's.

The r/s was a fantasy for you both:

How is it that we didn't recognize this fantasy?

How did we mistake love for control?

How did we mistake them wanting to spend every waking hour with us as love?

Why did we allow us to be isolated from our friends/family?

Why did our careers suffer for some of us?

Why did we lose ourselves and come to bpdfamily wondering what the heck happened?

Why are we spending so much energy and time trying to pick apart our ex's in these threads to understand what happened?

Why do we have to get a diagnoses to be able to move on?

Why does it feel good to receive validation when we respond to posts?

How do we explain our turmoil? Do others (those outside this site) understand what we are going through?

Why is it that self inquiry is so important?

Not everyone attaches to a Borderline - Why did you?

Relationships between two healthy people can also not work - however the break ups are never like this because they are capable of sitting down and discussing it - why are our r/s so hard to get over?

[findingmyselfagain]

Looking back, I have to say that I was able to love her and did love her. But it wasn't from a position of strength and emotional health. It was based on intense emotional need. At the time I was looking very hard for a relationship, and the idealization was absolute heaven. We seemed to resolve things. I overlooked the strange arguments and her chaotic relationship history. I truly believed she wanted to find something lasting. But the appearance of resolving differences and similar goals, it was all mirroring on her part. I saw a lot of the child-like regressions. It didn't strike me at the time. I just allowed it to hook me in further as I adored the child in her.

My own inner child had been very neglected over the years for various reasons as i discovered, so I was looking for that excitement and fulfillment in her mirroring and idealizing. If I met someone like her again, my boundaries would be stronger. I would expect to be treated with equal respect. I doubt I'd even consider someone with a very chaotic history (though we all aren't perfect). If I pushed for counseling for her sooner, who knows what may have happened? Maybe she would have reformed? Maybe I would have been pushed away faster? But, I would have been better off for loving me! I don't think I loved myself nearly enough in our r/s. I NEEDED her maybe as bad as she needed me.

I used to think love was the sparks flying kind of deal, and I thought our "chemistry" was great. But I believe "objective" and "mature" love is even more romantic. The commitment to grow in true intimacy with someone else in an emotionally healthy way provides a much  more lastiing and comfortable romance/love.

[Clearmind]

Looking back, I have to say that I was able to love her and did love her. But it wasn't from a position of strength and emotional health. It was based on intense emotional need. At the time I was looking very hard for a relationship, and the idealization was absolute heaven. We seemed to resolve things. I overlooked the strange arguments and her chaotic relationship history. I truly believed she wanted to find something lasting. But the appearance of resolving differences and similar goals, it was all mirroring on her part. I saw a lot of the child-like regressions. It didn't strike me at the time. I just allowed it to hook me in further as I adored the child in her.

My own inner child had been very neglected over the years for various reasons as i discovered, so I was looking for that excitement and fulfillment in her mirroring and idealizing. If I met someone like her again, my boundaries would be stronger. I would expect to be treated with equal respect. I doubt I'd even consider someone with a very chaotic history (though we all aren't perfect). If I pushed for counseling for her sooner, who knows what may have happened? Maybe she would have reformed? Maybe I would have been pushed away faster? But, I would have been better off for loving me! I don't think I loved myself nearly enough in our r/s. I NEEDED her maybe as bad as she needed me.

I used to think love was the sparks flying kind of deal, and I thought our "chemistry" was great. But I believe "objective" and "mature" love is even more romantic. The commitment to grow in true intimacy with someone else in an emotionally healthy way provides a much  more lastiing and comfortable romance/love.

Very nicely summarized FMA! . I would have to wholeheartedly agree with all that you said.

True intimacy does not occur within r/s that are rife with push/pull, idealization and mirroring.

[Shaktipat]

The best definition of love that I have ever heard is:

Love is the ability and willingness to allow those that you care for to be what they choose for themselves without any insistence that they satisfy you.

That was Wayne Dyer,  who I believe also said:

A genuine relationship is one that is not dominated by the ego with its image-making and self-seeking.  In a genuine relationship there is an outward flow of open,  alert attention toward the other person in which there is no wanting whatsoever.

[jp254958]

Clear,

I have to say I'm at a loss here.  It seems that there is a "secret" that you and others have after a great deal of soul searching after ending a relationship with a BPD.  I've been trying to figure out that is for a while and I'm stuck. 

From what I gather, it seems that many nons had are searching for affection that they never received in the early childhood phase.  Am I on track with that?  If so, I would agree that my mother and father weren't affectionate toward me.  I would agree that there was some childhood trauma.  But I realized that years ago and at least on the surface, I have forgiven them for that because they are human beings who probably experienced the very same lack of affection.  I love both of my parents very much and I accept and forgive them for their shortcomings as parents.  They're not perfect, and no parents are.

An offset of that thought is that nons feel a great deal of shame because they did not receive the affection they needed as children.  As a result, nons will engage and stay in relationships where their needs aren't met because they don't feel they deserve to be loved.  In that respect, I do feel that I deserve love.  When things started to go "haywire" with my ex, I laid out clear boundaries.  She broke them and the relationship ended.  So I didn't surrender to giving up my boundaries in that respect.  Do I feel some shame?  That's a toughie.  I do self-pity myself a lot and wonder why I haven't been in a relationship that has lasted.  So I've tried (for years) to be introspective to figure out what's wrong... .with me, with the women I choose, or whatever.  I'm at a loss.

A quick point to make is that during the "mirroring" phase with my ex, I didn't see many red flags early on in the relationship.  My thoughts about how "amazing" my ex was were all validated by the people at the dog rescue where she worked and I volunteered.  I didn't go into the relationship thinking that something was really wrong.  A few red flags popped up in the first few months, but nothing outrageous.  I spoke to my T about them and was told that no one is perfect and that I should keep going.  I absolutely agreed at the time.  There was a great deal of affection, support, kindness, and appreciation for each other.  I really saw how compatible we were in terms of life goals and with dogs.  I felt real love.  I saw a real future for us with a strong foundation to build on.

When the red flags got worse and became more frequent, I advised my ex to see a therapist at the advice of my T.  My ex said she would see a therapist for months and months.  She said she called a few times and forgot to call a few times.  Her health insurance was terrible and she lived in the middle of nowhere so there was limited access to T's - especially good ones.  I tried to be empathetic and patient.

I'm trying to figure out what's wrong with ME.  What I did exactly or what the "void" is in my life.  Do I hate myself?  Do I feel like my parents don't love me?  Do I feel unlovable?  Do I have an Oedipus complex (joke)? I'm trying to get my finger on this because I'm just not seeing it.  It seems that there is an answer here and I'm just lost.  I've been reading so much on DBT, schema therapy, early child therapy (writing and drawing in my opposite hand with "Big" and "Little" me), BPD, codependency, etc.  I'm trying so hard to figure out what's going on with me because others on the boards here seem to find these answers.  I'm wondering just what it is that I need to find out.  I need the Cliff's Notes version I guess!

Some background:  I was single for 5 years before this relationship.  I had been strategically patient in terms of trying to find someone because I wanted someone who shared the same goals and who seemed like she cared about others, and believed in doing good things.  I wanted someone who had a big heart. 

[findingmyselfagain]

jp,

The search for answers post-BPD can involve a lot of soul-searching, depending on where we are in life, our backgrounds, personalities, etc. Our stories are similar, but they're all different. Like my T told me, it's also possible you simply had the bad luck of falling in love with a pwBPD. That's something my T told me. Maybe it "just happened?" Who doesn't want to fall in love and the idealization and mirroring can feel a lot like that "love"? "Love and wisdom don't often go together" is another gem he has. I do believe I loved mine and was ready for a relationship. However, she very clearly was not. While I may have been ready for a "normal" relationship, I definitely wasn't prepared for the pwBPD and all of the wounds the r/s exposed. Are you still seeing your T? Have you read the articles here?

I haven't had much luck dating since my r/s ended. I've had two S-T r/s's, but one didn't seem to be a good fit and the other didn't seem to be healthy enough emotionally. A lot of my "bad luck" probably has to do with me still being a little fearful of dating, and a little uncertainty as far as what I'm looking for and need. I'm growing and I believe I'm attracting healthier partners. There are more immature partners than mature out there, so I don't think it's always easy. I don't think I've found someone who's quite compatible for me yet either. I do believe I'll know when I find it. I'm spending more time on myself and enjoying activities and friends without having dating as a focus. That's what has helped me the  most. Your own journey and answers are unique to you.

[jp254958]

Well I'm definitely confused. I've been reading A LOT on these boards for the past few months.  And I've been reading a lot of books about codependency, shame, BPD, mindfulness, schema, DBT, abandonment/getting through a breakup, etc.

I acknowledge the mirroring phase.  I loved it.  I felt I had met a very healthy, happy, interesting, amazing person.  She volunteered at a dog rescue.  Seemed like a very kind, gentle, loving person.  Considerate. I considered her my EQUAL, and I didn't see myself as being more important than her.  I did see myself as having more answers and general wisdom than her, but I also saw her as having way more knowledge and wisdom in many areas.  I don't think I'm better than her.  I wanted what was best for us... .which meant that I was willing to make some sacrifices and I hoped she was too. 

I dunno.  My thoughts are that I loved her.  I'm confused / doubtful that she loved me based on my definition of love.  But I believe she had love for me in her own way... .it was just different than my way. 

Finding, Yep, still seeing my T. 

So you think there are more immature than mature partners out there?  Gosh I hope that's not the case. I'm scared if it is!

[Clearmind]

Our journeys are unique you are right there FMA.

I commend you JP for doing some soul searching. Not everyone has a bad childhood and therefore chooses a BPD.

I guess my point is - why did we think we fell in love with our ex's? Is it that our notion of love and true intimacy is flawed? If its flawed then how we get it back on track?

We are a member of bpdfamily because some trauma or crisis led us here for answers to what we endured? I think we can deduce it was no 'ordinary' r/s.

We find it hard to detach and we come here confused. I knew those things about my family too however I still chose dysfunction. It's possible you don't have a great deal of searching left to do JP - I don't know I'm not you.

What did your ex provide you with that you felt like you didn't possess already? For me my ex made me feel extremely special, me felt 'love' like that before. I now know that that is not love. My ex mirrored. I mirrored. We got something from each other for the time it lasted - cracks appeared. I ended up not even liking the person before me.

Healthy/ true intimacy does not start with a fireworks display.

What's the difference?

Ok so our r/s ended - many r/s end for varying reasons - these hurt like no other! We are more confused like no other. I believe these r/s stop us in our tracks and we question everything - hit rock bottom and the only way is up - and there is much learning to be had on the way up.

Our childhood plays a role shaping our r/s skills. Mine were seriously flawed. It's possible that while we may understand in theory our childhood conditioning it possible it still plays out in choices of partners. JP we know have an awareness of our childhood, awareness of why we chose our partners - now we can begin to work towards choosing healthier partners.

[jp254958]

That's interesting stuff.

Like you, I felt I met my dream person.  I loved everything about her.  Then reality set in. But I guess I would say that people tend to be on their best behavior early in relationships. We hide our flaws and try to attract the other person.  We couldn't exactly come out and say we have issues with x, y, or z because it would have the other person running for the hills.  I totally understand why pwBPD mirror.

I really fell in love with my ex because she seemed like a genuinely good person. I had volunteered at a rescue for several years and she worked there for several years.  I saw dogs as a really good common interest and bond for the both of us.  Everyone who worked with her told me she was just an amazing person.  So there were so many factors that contributed to my falling for her. It wasn't just a “she made me feel great" thing.  There were some real reasons that were important to me. 

I dunno, I appreciate the discussion.  I think I've done a lot of soul searching and what I've concluded is that she has BPD and she really can't offer a lot in a relationship due to fears of engulfment/abandonment, poor sense of self, an underdeveloped amygdala, a difficult childhood, dissociative behavior, hypersensitivity, severe impulsivity, prior drug use, etc. 

I think I went into the relationship not thinking she had BPD, and came to realize that she was had a disorder very late in the game.  I stayed in the relationship because she promised to see a therapist and I wanted to believe that she could change. I also don't like to give up on people, and I thought she and I had very common interests to build on.  I loved to spend time with her most of the time.  We had some very amazing moments.  She would just get very disordered some of the time and it was unbearable and outrageous. If I knew she had BPD, I would have handled things differently but hindsight is always 20/20.

I know I need to work on getting over the hurt of this loss.  I really cared about her and I valued her in my life.  And I miss her too. I'm not sure what the takeaways are here.  Maybe there aren't many for me other than to learn here other than I shouldn't stick by people when things are too tumultuous.  Seems simple enough. 

I'll keep pondering it!  Thanks for all the thought provoking discussion everyone!

[myself]

Many of us ended up like the frog in the pan of water on the stove. We went into it being the best frogs we could be, sharing our hearts honestly, and kept on being ourselves, deep down, throughout. Our love was real, for us, however it was that we were seeing or expressing it. As the temperature of the situation changed, the love we felt amplified into a more frantic need and was being worn away (by neglect and overuse). We lost track of some of it as we felt the heat, weren't sure what to do about it, and made efforts to jump out. Learning to next time look to see if the pan is actually a pan, is on a stove, etc.

[exbpdgf]

I'm such a frog that got fried soo slowly I didn't notice it. I am 11 months out of my 9 year r/s with ex BPD gf (and 7 months nc). Our couples counselor told me that perhaps I loved her, but she's not so sure about my ex's capability to love me back. More and more I wonder about the love part, on both sides. I know I thought I loved her. I know everything after I broke up with her was  manipulation plain and simple. But it makes sense, since I'd tried to break up with her on at least two other occasions and she was able to talk me into not leaving. I know I worked on my own stuff the entire time we were together and finally exhausted by her emotional dysregulation and witholding (sexually and emotionally), I gave her an ultimatum for therapy. She went for 6 months (or less) and quit. When she was in therapy, she got a little better (but during this time told me that my anger and my negativity is why our r/s wasn't working).

After we broke up, I went back to our former couples counselor (stunned with my new knowledge of BPD). She said oh yeah, for sure (and probably NPD, Histrionic and perhaps bipolar). She told me she was GLAD my ex quit therapy so that I escaped. She's seen too many people stay because they kept getting thrown crumbs. Ouch.

I am working on my inner child, my abandonment issues, all the things I didn't see, all the ways I put things on my ex that she could never meet. I am totally committed to focusing on my part. I want real love, not another reasonable fascimile grounded in emotional need

[OTH]

How is it that we didn't recognize this fantasy?

Part of me did but I couldn't let go. I wanted to keep trying. I maintained a lot of good boundaries. I didn't let sex mask our issues. She did try. I wouldn't let her cover up bad behavior with it. We'd tried to talk about things. I wouldn't give in and we'd have lengthy circular arguments that went nowhere. I didn't have the knowledge to just walk away and let her deal with her emotions. I knew there were bad things going on. She kept pushing me away when things were going well. This kept me on guard. She called off the engagement 4 times. I knew something was off but I thought we could work it out. Even though I had no idea what it was. I think this was more my own conceit than anything to do with her. I can fix anything! I did call off the wedding. It was the 5th and final time. Go me!

How did we mistake love for control?

I recognized it but just kept trying. We kept arguing.

How did we mistake them wanting to spend every waking hour with us as love?

I knew this wasn't right. She was incredibly clingy when she first moved in. I drew back and she got mad at me. We had a long talk about it and she enrolled in some classes on topics that interested her in a local community college to keep her busy. She took up gardening also. We did pretty well after that for a bit. I did good here.

Why did we allow us to be isolated from our friends/family?

Not good. I failed big time here. I became too focused on managing her emotions and not focusing on my own health. I had a couple periods where I really got down. After we didn't get married was one of them. I'm actually shocked we didn't break up then.  All my other relationships really suffered!

Why did our careers suffer for some of us?

I'm established enough in my field I could mask it pretty well but my quality of work wasn't the same. How could it be when I had a BPD to take care of? LOL.

Why did we lose ourselves and come to bpdfamily wondering what the heck happened?

I might still be with my ex if I hadn't left for 4 days. It was the first time I had left for longer than a day. The couple times I left for a day she was furious when I got back. I knew if I left for 4 days it might end it. I thought about changing my plans pretty hard. A bit of self preservation took over and I decided if she can't take being alone for 4 days what kind of relationship do we really have? The closer the date got to my trip (to check on a property I own in another state) the closer we got. We were in another idealization stage. We kissed passionately at the airport looked into each other’s eyes and repeated I love yous. When I returned she was about an hour late picking me up, couldn’t look at me. She left before the week was out. I had a couple down periods before this but I handled it and the relationship not so bad. This was devastating though. We never recovered from it. Interaction continues for several more months but it was never anything close to healthy again. It wasn’t healthy before but things really got out of hand from here on out.

Why are we spending so much energy and time trying to pick apart our ex's in these threads to understand what happened?

It just happened so fast. It is still hard to understand even though I understand. If that makes sense.

Why do we have to get a diagnoses to be able to move on?

Ex attempted suicide and was diagnosed. She told me once in a good period we had. She says she doesn't have it though. After all this blew over we have talked a bit since then. I know a bit more. She does realize she is isolated and has difficulty being close to people. She fell apart about a year after we broke up and she is sad about it. She also said her life was going well when we started dating. It was a couple years after the suicide attempt. She had some therapy after that. She called it "life coaching" though. She has some knowledge of DBT concepts and it does make me wonder. It doesn’t make it better though. All the bad stuff that happened. Happened. Doesn’t matter if she has BPD or not.  

Why does it feel good to receive validation when we respond to posts?

Felt good at first because my ex never listened to my point of view and I was hurting emotionally and looking for somebody to understand.  

How do we explain our turmoil? Do others (those outside this site) understand what we are going through?

People don’t understand. I think it is because most people haven’t been in an enmeshed relationship before. I put myself in a bad place.

Why is it that self inquiry is so important? Not everyone attaches to a Borderline - Why did you?

Bipolar sister. Extremely co-dependent mother. Possible BPD dad I haven’t spoken to in over 20 years. I haven’t really disclosed this. I’m currently working on these things now. I have been NC by my choice with my dad. No big deal. That is how it needs to be.  Parents divorced and I have taken on a lot of my sister’s and mom’s troubles throughout our lives. I take after mom. I have been trying to force a healthier relationship with sister and mother since moving back into the area. That has been difficult. My BPD ex did bring this up when we were together. She wanted me to focus my attention and resources on her. Honestly. To answer the question, It all just seemed kind of normal.

Relationships between two healthy people can also not work - however the break ups are never like this because they are capable of sitting down and discussing it - why are our r/s so hard to get over?

I went from a high to a low in 4 days. It was just crazy.

why did we think we fell in love with our ex's? Is it that our notion of love and true intimacy is flawed? If its flawed then how we get it back on track?

This is still a tough question for me. We were great as casual friends. We had honest talks without the intimacy. Before I deleted our emails I read through them. In our old ones I can even see the BPD in them. She isn’t really hiding it. I was sympathetic with a lot of her feelings because of my own family drama. This was actually our main connecting point. The reason we kept talking.  When we tried to become more we had a typical BPD relationship. We have had a few talks that haven’t been bad. I’ve even learned a bit more about her outside of fantasy land. She hasn’t done well since we broke up. She is having difficulty putting the pieces back together. I have no desire to save anymore though. It is up to her. She has started working again so hopefully she continues to get better. I don’t think either one of us are planning to talk again. She might contact me again if her life falls apart again. If she does I don’t mind talking to her but the urge to save has left me. I think I’m getting better.

Healthy/ true intimacy does not start with a fireworks display. What's the difference?

I know this. I haven’t done it before. I thought it might be different since we were already “friends”. It was too fast too soon though. We had never spent enough time together to know if we were really compatible or for me to find out she has BPD. LOL

[John70]

Trust is everything and neither my ex or I trusted each other.

Thanks OTH and me too! I spent most of my r/s in a daze - I did not realize we were using one another.

Clearmind, whoa! That's exactly what I've started to accept of late. If I'm honest, I lost the love and the respect for my ex at least a year before I found the strength to walk away. She had claimed there was no contact between her and someone with whom she had an affair for 15 years both before and during her marriage. Her phone said something else entirely (I've never looked at a partner's phone or snooped before but something didn't feel right in my gut). The goldleaf which we had both coated each other with began to peel away but I couldn't let go of the dream no matter the evidence or the cost to my own well-being. I used her because I needed an anchor for all these feelings she/we had engendered within me. Once the stopper had come out I couldn't bottle back up all the feelings of love, acceptance and validation that I'd always repressed from childhood. She helped me express myself more than anyone before and I thought that love. I suppose that's another definition of love too and I still believe that to be possible in a non-disordered way. The loss of that is what hurts me the most and still finds me struggling. I don't miss her, I miss being able to express myself or, more accurately, my lonely child. Little did I know what would follow the words "I love you" - from both of us. Anger, recrimination, cruelty, inauthenticity of feelings - from both of us. As I work my way out of this mess I begin to see how I treated her or our relationship as an absolute because that's something that has been missing from my childhood because of FOO issues. I was sick for validation, my emotional immune system has always been weak and meeting her felt like the vaccination I'd always needed. I've told myself I'm not going to utter the words "I love you" until I've worked these issues out and and made progress in therapy. Apart from saying them to my little girl of course  I'm being so careful with her. It kills me to think she would ever, ever experience this type of pain.

[jdcthunder14]

I don't know how someone can just switch off true love in 24 hours.

Real love you can't... .happened to me too... .a "I love you" and "we are done" in the same 24 hour period.

[OutsidetheHermitWalls]

I think it was Plato who said "love is a Devine madness"; your question is poignant and I think ultimately unanswerable.  Only you know what you felt.  That is if you define love as a feeling.  If you define love as an action, then only you know it you were loving.  Others may define love as a state of selflessness, only you know that too.  Love to me is amorphous, changing, evolving, it's both dark and light.  Thomas Moore in ":)arknight of the soul" talks about love as both light and dark.  I am sure most of us relate to that definition. There is "mature" love as if love has a juvenile, adolescent and adult state, here maybe we say my love for my BPD did not mature correctly.  They say if I must love myself if I am to love another.  Who is the "I" that is supposed to love my "self"?  If "I" don't love myself now how does the "I" who does not love "self"; become the "I" that loves self? Are we not the same?  Perhaps it not a growth but a stripping down of the illusion that I am who I think I am,  maybe I am sometimes selfish and sometimes selfless, maybe I am sometimes kind and sometimes mean.  Maybe I have trouble being both at the same time.  Maybe I cannot accept the duality.  And maybe a BPD relationship just mirrors that conflict.  Because in their black and white world do I not envy the ability to be resolute:  it is good or it is bad.  There is no in between and better yet I defer the responsibility to them.  Why?  Because in the beginning I got to be all good, and from that point I had a mission to amplify that good, the light, the ideal... .my ideal.  It was like a drug taking back in time before I knew I was good baby, bad baby. I was ideal baby but ideal defined as good only, ideal in reality could be both good and bad, because what I deem as bad I.e. anger is sometimes good, when used for protection as an example.  But until I accept the integration of me as light and dark, ideal soul; then I defer to her to split in black and white.  Are they not only doing what we asked them?  I loved her from the place of my soul.  Probe it!  I cannot.  I can't even prove to you I love my family but I do.  Love is not always forever, this is for a season, though I grieve the ending of an endless summer.

[jdcthunder14]

To answer the original question... .  I loved her. The confusion comes in because part of why we feel in love is because what we feel is reciprocated. There was no way for me to know that the 1000's of "I love you" that came out of her mouth were lies or at least confused. I was a one and done person in her life, no recycles, so during our time I would have had no idea of all the other thoughts that were swirling in her head. She was also the quiet waif type so no raging to give me any clue.

I think we belittle need in relationships; we all need to feel loved and have companionship. I will agree that if you have to trade other things like peace of mind, happiness, physical well being, sense of self etc. just to be in a relationship then in that case you need to examine yourself too.

[Cumulus]

Do you remember that song, happiness is... .  different things to different people, that's what happiness is. If you change the happiness for love I think it is just as true. And the meaning of love can change depending on what stage of life you are in and what challenges you are dealing with in your life. That's why marriage can be difficult even with two emotionally stable individuals. As a recently DW in middle age coming out of a decades long marriage with a pwBPD I can say, yes I did love him, and do still. What's confusing is I'm not sure just who he is. What romantic love means to me is:

Wanting to place the needs of my partner at the same level as my own, most of the time

shared interests and goals

having joy in each others company

a feeling of support when facing the concerns of the world

the spark of intimacy that is shared between two people when you look at each other

creating memories

a sense of belonging at the end of the day

allowing each other into the most sensitive areas of your life knowing there will be no

condemnation or shaming, but acceptance and shared strength for growth

the undefinable "it" factor when two people connect

So that's my list. Now if I can only find a market that has some in stock