Painful truth revealed in therapy

[mikmik]

I went with dd19 to her session last week.  It was awful, as I mentioned in another post.  She called me every name in the book.  A real rage session.  T told dd that she respects dd's right to "think" those things about me, but in her office, dd can't use those words, as T is a mom too, and it really bothers her to hear such language.  DD complied.  DD asked T what could she do because She would NEVER get better.  T told dd that was NOT true, that dd was making progress. (really?)  She listed off some things that were positives.  It went on.  DD still raging at me.

Later in the session, as T tried to peel back what was going on, dd said the following. 

"I came from my mom, I mean, yeah, she gave birth to me.  But, I am not what she wanted.  I am not who she hoped for. "

I sat quietly.  I could not reassure her.  I could not answer her, becasue she is right.  What do I do with this?  It is weighing on me, the truth of it all.

mik

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[griz]

mikmik:  How difficult that must have been for you and it makes me think of how difficult it must be for our children.  Most of them are very intuitive and bright and I am sure they know deep in their hearts that this is not what we invisioned for our children or ourselves.  I can't imagine the self loathing that must go on in their minds and for us to be able to accept that this is the truth.

There are times that I look out my window and see my neighbors d leaving for school.  She is happy, getting into her car that she can now drive with a big smile on her face.  I watch her mom wave good bye to her with the same smile.  DD and her daughter used to be best friends.  They are the same age.  My eyes often fill with tears and I think, why not me?

It weighs on all of us... .the truth. But it is okay for us to accept it.  I don't know what we say to them except I Love You.

Griz

[twojaybirds]

My dd has expressed those same words many times.  And griz I too look at friends and other peers of hers and tear up.

I have responded to my dd 's dismay with a variety of responses depending upon the mood.

"you are right but I never thought I would have a daughter who... .say something positve and fun... .and I am sure glad you do"

I never expected to own this car but I found a deal and am glad.

I didnt think I wanted to eat at that restaurant but the food was great and now I go back there... .

[trytrytry]

Painful ,but so true.  Over the years, I've worked to extinguish expectations- and I've worked towards acceptance of my DD26.  I try to focus on the good she is, not the good I expected.  Somedays I have more luck than others.

[Kate4queen]

Well that's the thing about our kids, they quite often hit on something that is painfully true and have the ability to turn it around and make it all about you when they have played a significant role in the negative feelings that have been created.

My 21 yr old BPD son screamed in my face that everything that is wrong with his life was because I 'gave him' cerebral palsy in the womb. He's used my guilt over this to control me for 21 years. Not any more. He has to take some responsibility for how he has turned out- as do all our kids. Unfortunately, finding a way to get that through to our kids is another matter.

[heronbird]

Sorry, Im missing something here?

We all love our children more than anything, does it matter if they dont do uni or go college. No, at the end of the day, bottom line is I love my dd.

She is way off line. She is 18 married in a weird way, pregnant not working  and often thinks of her self more than anything else although she does care about others. She has cuts all over her,smokes or used to smoke 2 weeks ago. Used to binge drink blah blah! you know the type of thing.

Thats just the way it is, there is no point dreaming if she could be like one of my friends decent 18 year olds. I love her and she loves me. Her head is messed and I dont know if I could cope if I had that, so I am proud of her for trying so hard to cope.

Do you know I bumped into an old friend the other week and she said to me , sorry to hear about your dds pregnancy. Sorry, I mean come on. I cant imagine life being another way now.

Sorry, I hope I dont sound judgemental, Im not being Im trying to encourage you. And I know you do all love your kids.

Anthony Bateman talks about this "no fit" relationship. Its interesting, I think I have that with one of my children, its where we dont fit its like a clash of personality really. I still love him.

Valerie Porr said ,Do you love your children unconditionally? I said course we do, she said yes if they do what you expect from them you do. Interesting eh

I hope things get better for you. My dd probably thinks that she let me down by being the way she is. I dont need her to feel worse do I.

Radical acceptance is the best thing

[inkling16]

How often is any kid entirely what their parents expected? Both good ways and bad ways. The grab-bag is part of the deal when you become a parent, and raising someone who's not you is part of what makes it interesting. I think your daughter needs to understand that, too.

I sometimes get weepy when I see "normal" kids my daughter's age. It's partly for me, because I'd like to have normal parenting problems and not these great big ones, but mostly for her, because I know she wants so badly to be able to do what those kids do and it puts her into such turmoil to know that she can't. I would keep in mind that even though you think she's hit on a home truth about you, her insight is probably 90 percent projecting because she's not happy with herself.

[Esperança_Hope]

Mikmik,  

It´s hard, tough. My DS say´s the same words many times.  I answered. Life is not the way we want ... life is the way it is. I love you . period. The way you are. Maybe i´m not the mom you wanted, hoped... .but i´m your mom. Let´s deal with it. Then , sometimes he hugs, kisses me asking sorry and thanking... .sometimes he steels quiet.

Love

Esperança

[vivekananda]

I would keep in mind that even though you think she's hit on a home truth about you, her insight is probably 90 percent projecting because she's not happy with herself.

I agree, with you inkling.

mikmik, I think there are two things to unravel here. First your dd - yes, I think it is her projection. I recall reading about the pwBPD and the sense of shame they carry. Shame is a really powerful concept, it is insidious and illogical and it is very real. I think your dd feels shame for who she is, or who she isn't. Isn't that what our kids with BPD need - a sense of identity? Because they have little sense of self. It is not that she has picked up your so called shame for her. Rather she knows she is 'different' in many ways from an 'ideal' daughter and creates the sense of shame because of that. Not because of you. Because she is projecting or transferring her shame onto you. She has to have someone to blame for how she feels, otherwise she will have to accept that she is in control afterall.

Then there's you, mikmik the mother. You welcome your daughter with open arms and accept what she says because you feel such a sense of responsibility for who she is. You embrace the girl you love so much and feel guilty because you had hoped for a life for her that was different. Like every other parent, you wanted your daughter to do better than you did, to find happiness more easily.

"A parent's greatest wish is for their child, whatever their age, to be healthy and happy. When a child suffers from BPD, often not only is the child unhappy and unhealthy, but so is everyone who loves them. This mental illness severely affects everyone, creating drama and heartbreak, while also piling on the guilt and anxiety."

Do you recognise these words? We often say them to the new parents to the site. These are the words that tore at my heart when I first read them. Like all of us here you feel the powerlessness of trying to fix our children's problems for them - we can't do that, only they can. We can only do what we can to support them in their change. And that is different for all of us, depending on our kids, our circumstances, ourselves.

The truth of her words is nothing to be ashamed about. Yes, you wanted a different life for her, but now, I think, knowing you, you have let go of that. Now I think you want a relationship with her and all expectations have gone (just like HB says). There was nothing wrong with wanting your daughter to have an easier life, there is nothing wrong to want a relationship with her, there is nothing to feel shamed about. Shame is illogical, identify where it sits within you: touch it, feel it, recognise it - then leave it alone. That's what I have learnt.

'Give me strength to change what I can, grace to accept what I can't and wisdom to know the difference.' Radical acceptance mikmik not guilt.

love you heaps girl, praying for you and sending strength,

Vivek     

[mikmik]

To everyone,

I am, as always, in awe of the insight and power and grace you all have.

Griz and TwoJays,

Yes, tears in my eyes when my friends kids drive off to college and can go to class and are working towards a healthy future.  I just had this conversation with a friend today, I told her, I am jealous of the normal in your life.  She told me she just wanted to hug me. 

EspHope,

Ah, yes!  Maybe the truer word are just what you said.  Perhaps I am not the mom she wanted, hoped for,  But she had me, and that is that.  The truth.

Vivek ,

To center, collect, and set right.  Those are your strenghts.  And your words "to find happiness more easily"  That is it.  And, I do have to remember (which I so often forget) is that they are highly sensitive, and shame-filled people.  I just wish I knew better how to navigate her world.  Thank you for you.

Inkling,

YES!  The tears are, to be truthful, for me.  I am weeping for my loss.  Progress comes from accepting the truth of where you are.  I am close to hitting my bottom, and my tears are for me as well as dd...   ANd understanding that pwBPD project helps me understand.  Thansk for your insight!

Kate,

Your post helps me remember that their recovery starts with them.  We can't want it more than they do.  It is none-the-less painful to watch.  But as someone else on this board said, we must Radically Self Care.  We must care for ourselves too.  Thanks for bringing that home.

Heron and try try

What choice do we have but to love them?  But why must it be so hard?  I think when I struggle with that, it is because I have neglected myself, and I have little to give to her.  Self Care... .Next step, It can be about me for a while.  I need to gather my strength.  Thank you...

mik

[heronbird]

mik

maybe thats my thing that has helped me cope, I am not narcissist at all, but if I say Im selfish it sounds horrible, so I dont mean that, I really am not. Having said that, I still thought of me and how to look after me throughout all those really bad times.

Times have been reasonable for the last 10 weeks or so. When dd got ill firstly about 2 years ago, I promised myself that I would do things for me when I can. I would keep my job ( I love the money haha) I would also keep my dance classes up. Ill give everything else up and I had to. I also had to keep my work down, so managing on less money. Funny enough, money does not seem important anymore. Id rather help people, but we need money to live, Im going off subject sorry (as usual)

It is all consuming though.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Being Mindful]

To everyone,

I am, as always, in awe of the insight and power and grace you all have.

Griz and TwoJays,

Yes, tears in my eyes when my friends kids drive off to college and can go to class and are working towards a healthy future.  I just had this conversation with a friend today, I told her, I am jealous of the normal in your life.  She told me she just wanted to hug me. 

EspHope,

Ah, yes!  Maybe the truer word are just what you said.  Perhaps I am not the mom she wanted, hoped for,  But she had me, and that is that.  The truth.

Vivek ,

To center, collect, and set right.  Those are your strenghts.  And your words "to find happiness more easily"  That is it.  And, I do have to remember (which I so often forget) is that they are highly sensitive, and shame-filled people.  I just wish I knew better how to navigate her world.  Thank you for you.

Inkling,

YES!  The tears are, to be truthful, for me.  I am weeping for my loss.  Progress comes from accepting the truth of where you are.  I am close to hitting my bottom, and my tears are for me as well as dd...   ANd understanding that pwBPD project helps me understand.  Thansk for your insight!

Kate,

Your post helps me remember that their recovery starts with them.  We can't want it more than they do.  It is none-the-less painful to watch.  But as someone else on this board said, we must Radically Self Care.  We must care for ourselves too.  Thanks for bringing that home.

Heron and try try

What choice do we have but to love them?  But why must it be so hard?  I think when I struggle with that, it is because I have neglected myself, and I have little to give to her.  Self Care... .Next step, It can be about me for a while.  I need to gather my strength.  Thank you...

mik

Hello mik   

Remember self care is also about putting the box around you.

You mentioned that you want to be able to better navigate her world. I found that when I navigated my own world, took that back from the crazy chaos we were living and focused on myself, it was only then that I was better able to understand her world (not navigate) which resulted in growth for her and me.

[mikmik]

heron,

you make me smile.  how is your BPD group going?  I think I need to focus on me, and one thing is to do for others as you are doing.  I think you get back in buckets what you give out!  It is a way of doing for yourself.  And then, there are the things that are JUST for me, like a manicure or pedicure or a massage or a workout.   I just have to get my head on straight and do those things.



mik

[mikmik]

   

being mindful,

the box.  yep. refocusing, it can be about me.  except today, she has the flu.  epic.  bathroom all night.  no sleep for me.  but poor kid can't keep anything down or in (yuck).  maybe that will be her gift to me 

But no matter, I have to put in the work on me.  That is much harder than I thought it would be.

You rock!  Tahnks for reminding me about the box.

mim

[Being Mindful]

Mik, Yes, it is hard to work on self. For me, initially it felt like I was giving up on her. In the end, this was not true at all. What I did for myself has helped her. And, my work on me is not done. It evolves, grows, changes and there is always more to learn. It has been an enormous, rewarding journey.

[vivekananda]

mik,

When I am struggling, I drag myself out to walk and consciously notice the sky, the ground, and everything around me. It is all for me, for my pleasure. I try to harness the energy in the world around me, soak it in through the palms of my hands. I consciously try to renergise myself. Then I can allow myself the opportunity to think. Before I walk back into my door, I turn again to the world around me and have a last minute soak. I walk for as long as I can but usually 20 mins to an hour.

Perhaps because you are so tired, you could just step out and find a park bench and close your eyes and rest... .and soak up the goodness in the world.

I think you need a rest, a holiday. Even a weekend? Possible?

please take care of yourself mikmik,

Cheers,

Vivek      

[heronbird]

Hi Micmic

I love watching The Waltons, but recently I think differently, its so interesting to see how they talk as a family, how they live with extended family. Im sure BPD would be more manageable in this situation.

I watched one today where I think it was Jason, fell in love with a girl, the problem was, she was married and left her dh. This was not normal in those days, so his mum was concerned as she could see him falling and falling for her. She decided to have a talk to him (was that controlling/judgemental) she told him she didnt think he should be seeing her, he asked why, she said because she is married, but he said she has left her dh.

The mum still stuck by what she was saying.

This is what Jason said, and it reminded me of this thread "Mum, you were never going to accept anything unless it was marriage, home, children and Church every Sunday"

It made me realise, that we all had dreams and hopes for our children, usually from our morals maybe, these values are dear to our hearts, not that we want them to be doctors or Lawyers or anything eh!

I particularly like the way the mum said "Im not going to tell you what to do. Im just going to ask you to think about what you are doing.

I think people could learn a lot from this programme.

I love Waltons, Little house on Prarire, Ann of green gables and Pollyanna. Hey good escapism too 

BPD group still in learning faze micmic, scary. The manual has been written three times and we have altered it each time a bit to make it simpler so that I can understand it haha, but I still cant. Im getting better. Learning about mentalisation isnt easy but Ive done that I think. We have another meeting in Jan, then a few more sessions where I think hes going to be just teaching me what to say to make sure Im ready Im not sure, Im trying to take it step at a time.

He is going to be there while I do the group eeek, I think everyone will prefer it if he speaks, I told him that he is very good at it and I think he should do it instead of me, Ill make the coffee. Ill work on that one .

I have to say, he is a very very nice man, and mentalisation is very good, look it up if you get chance.

[Reality]

heronbird,

Now that I think I understand DBT better, I found that chapter on Mentalization in Valerie Porr's book very helpful. 

You were the one on this board, who kept referring to Valerie Porr in your posts and inspired us to read that book months ago, so I wondered if you know of any good books on Mentalization that you have found helpful. 

Reality

[griz]

Sorry if I was misunderstood.  The tears in my eyes are not that DD is not what I want it is that she is not what she wants.  She often will say why can't I be like everyone else and that is what hurts so bad.  I see in front of me what she wanted.  A normal life, to laugh and have fun, to go away to college like her sister did, to smile and to not be in pain.

I will love my daughter no matter what.

Griz

[Reality]

Dear griz,

The emptiness inside our darlings is so difficult for them. 

Yes, griz, you will love your daughter, no matter what.

Reality

[heronbird]

Well done Griz, I feel that too, yes it broke my heart when my dd said why cant she just be like everyone else. So sad. Said her head is often all over the place and its horrible.

Reality, I ask Dr Bateman if there is a good book out there on mentalization, he said he is supposed to be writing one, he has such a lot on, Im sure he does not sleep    So we have to wait for now. When he teaches me maybe I will write one haha. Joke

So, no I cant find a good one, although there is good info on line.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[mikmik]

  As always, it comes to turning back to Valerie Porr's book.  Yes, Heron is the one who kept mentioning it, thank goodness.

With all the posts I have read and posted myself, may I ask of you all, how is it that I so easily get de-railed, sucked up by, tossed and turned, and get all kinds of exhausted by BPD - when I know better!  This just makes me feel stupid.  It all makes sense when I read it, but making it a part of my daily life seems beyond me, then it makes me think of how hard it must be for dd to change. Help!   

I think what it comes down to, is that there is so little of me left, that I am more easily triggered than she is!

First phone call today (to cold for a sit on a bench ViveK) is to schedule a massage.  Will take the $$ from my xmas dinner budget 

mik

[Being Mindful]

Hi mik, I think you probably answered your question yourself... ."there is so little of you left". I remember being there too. I still get derailed and sucked in at times. But it is fewer and fewer times. Remember we were talking about my box around me, my box of protection. When I did this, I think for the most part I only concentrated on me and the other family members in my box. Its hard to recall exactly but I believe that I almost blanked out my BPD.d, got really, really angry at d., kept telling myself that no way in hxxx would I continue like this. I really put my foot down. It was only after getting some of myself back that I could refocus and begin using skills with her. While in this phase, I was really, really angry at my d. After I got my strength back, it was then that I was able to separate my d. from the illness, which is a compassionate place to be. A place of compassion helped me to work on my skills, learn, teach the rest of the family. A place of compassion helped me to understand my d. and I didn't want her to suffer within our relationship when I had the ability to learn. One more thing, a place of compassion helped to understand BPD as a disability and not that my d. was out to make my life miserable, or that she was intentionally harming me, being mean to me.

A place of compassion took away my anger and allowed me to love my d. and hate BPD.

I hope that helps.

[Reality]

I think what it comes down to, is that there is so little of me left, that I am more easily triggered than she is!

First phone call today (to cold for a sit on a bench ViveK) is to schedule a massage.  Will take the $$ from my xmas dinner budget

mikmik,

I think exhaustion and emotional, psychological and physical depletion are the Achilles heel for people with darlings with BPD. 

I am beginning to see that my Radical Self Care wasn't radical enough.  I kept absorbing the stress for years and now I see that I needed to simply refuse to function that way, whatever that might have meant. 

Stay close to your own perceptions and needs.  Be selfish, in a sense or rather centre on self, whatever that means to you.

Reality

[vivekananda]

mikmik all of the above and here's a different perspective again.

open yourself to all the love that there is in the world for you and you alone, open your heart to the universe, tap into the invisible energy that there is for just you and soak it up. Here's my story that helped me know this.

My dh was terminally ill with liver disease, for more than a year he was slowly dying. Then he was given a chance with a liver transplant. The operation took 14 hrs. When he was wheeled out of theatre and to Intensive Care, I was there. The intense emotions of that experience were so powerful. He had hundreds of people praying for him, meditiating for him, thinking of him and of us. Hundreds of people I didn't know and will never know. When he was wheeled past me, as I stood there I felt the presence of all that positive energy, it was tangible, just over my head, an almost physical manifestation. I was blessed to have experienced a transcendental moment. This is not something I share often.

So, it's summer here, you're in the north and its cold, no park benches but when you are on that massage table, soak up the energy of the masseur and feel that through her hands is all that powerful positive energy that there is in the world. When you go from the house to the car, hold your face to the sky and soak up the energy of the universe. When you talk on the phone, hear the voice of the person speaking and listen to the energy there. When the shop assistant looks at you, look into their eyes and see the energy. All around you is it there for you. In people, in nature. Our world is full of love for us if we open up to it. Actively look for it, for your self, be greedy for it.

This is one way of staying in the present, in the moment. It is a different way of understanding the 'Presence' that we need to be mindful. It is a part of what we need to do to care for ourselves.

All that and be kind to yourself.

Dr Russ Harris, an Aussie, says Self Compassion = Presence + Kindness. He describes Presence as: Connection + Detachment (defusion) + Acceptance (expansion). All these words have precise meanings in the context of mindfulness, the words in brackets are the language he uses to help explain it.

You have been looking after a sick girl, on call at her will, you are tired and despondent. You need rest; take it. You need care; give it to yourself.

The love I am sending you is like a snowball rolling downhill. It gets bigger the further it has to go. Feel the energy of that from me and from everyone here, acroos rivers, mountains and oceans. It is for you alone. When you have enough for yourself, you can share it with others.

Vivek     

ps the reason you get derailed is because we are learning something different to the way most of our world knows and thinks and acts. We are lucky to be able to learn this, but of course it's hard. We are changing a lifetime of practice.    

[simenora]

I don't give two hoots about going to college or being successful. I care about her staying alive and not wishing to die. I car about her eventually having a life worth living. If she can eventually leave my house and stop worrying about me getting too old or sick to care for her, if one day she can live on her own, if she can have a good nights sleep without nightmares, if she can be in a crowd without anxiety, then I'll be happy.

[mikmik]

 

Simenora,

For us, all of us, it starts with that wish that you expressed so well.  Our first goal is for them not to die.  And the rest grows from there.  We are a unique crew on this board.  Our wishes are just as strong as any other parent, they are just focused on things out of the norm.

To all of you,

As far as Radical Self care, and daring to be selfish (I wish that the stigma associated with self care and mental illness were not so strong), just as learning how to deal with pwBPD, we must re-learn, as women, that there is nothing noble in being too selfless.  Lots of change required to live in BPD-Land.

And as BeingMindful reminds me, I have to put a box around myself (personal boundary) and know it is OK not to let BPD soak into my being till I can't breath.  It is OK to shift the focus to myself, so that I can better give her the care she needs, and break old patterns that only feed the disorder.  ViveK's story and love help me dip my toes in the world of hope, Reality's perspectives invoke such tenderness, Heron is straight forward and humble at the same time which makes her so dear and so real, Griz reminds me that our hearts beat each day for our children as we are the ones who love them.

wishing each and every one of you a New Year full of Radical Self Care, The Power in the Universe, A Place Full of Compassion.  And mostly, I hope you all get back the support you have so kindly given me.

  mik

[vivekananda]

mik mik   

viv 

[whiletheseasonspass]

Hello mikmik   

You have gotten so much loving advice from the compassionate group here on this wonderful board.  I think you are a wonderful mom and it shows. 

Perhaps this has been said already in so many words but I know how your thread began... with what your dd said.  I don't know if it is up to me to tell you how to deal with your own situation for we are all different personalities with children in different places on the BPD spectrum... .so I will speak about me and if anything resonates with you- then I have given you something... .but if not- then others here have at least. 

For me- I do want my dd to be a different gal in that I want her to be living her dreams.  She is so talented but at the lowest in functioning.  She is so ill physically.  That pushes her way down- pins her down.  Her thinking is affected... .Presently she is not the way I dreamed my dd would be.  I want her to be living my dreams for her. 

Accceptance:  I never cried much until maybe a year or so ago.  Not much.  Then I began crying a lot.  I don't know why the sudden crying or the lack of crying.  Grieving is what was going on when the tears came.  It was simultaneous to my realization that I could not save my dd.  As that realization increased- my crying increased.  The reality of what was- what is- was hitting me as I realized what I was realizing... .My dd - she does not say she is not what I wanted or did not want.  This grieving of mine however-  it is because life did not turn out for my dd the way I wanted it to whether she knows I feel this way or cares or does not care. 

One other thing.  I never could understand acceptance.  I can accept that it is dark early in the winter or that sometime it rains or that my car is old.  But with my dd- I don't how one accepts this.  Maybe it is just me.  Maybe it is a matter of semantics but maybe for me the word "grasp" or "realize" or "get it" is where I am at. 

About grieving or crying or feeling disappointed.  I have found that since I have been allowing myself to grieve - well all I can say- is that I feel like I am being true to myself and my dd.  That is not going to cure my dd.  It helps me somehow though.  The crying has not been as much as when it was at it's peak.  But what I know - what I grasp is that I need to be true to myself and my dd.  My dd does not see me cry.  I tell her all of the time I love her.   

Anyway- that is what I wanted to write to you.  When I read what you put in bold at the start of this thread my heart broke for you for I know you felt a stab of pain for your dd saying this.  And I just wanted to write to you to tell you how I TRY to get by AND above all-  that I think you are a wonderful loving mom.   

wtsp

[whiletheseasonspass]

Also just to add to what I said above in my prior post... .I did not mean to sound selfish- that my dd was not living MY dreams for HER. 

ABOVE ALL - l I wanted my dd to live out HER DREAMS that she had for HERSELF before she got so sick.   Then second to that comes my sadness - that my dd is not living out my dreams for her.  So HER then me... .in that order