Did BPD Boyfriend Ever love ME

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

It sounds like he is having a very difficult time emotionally. Hopefully he can get proper medical help and begin feeling a better. It probably isn't a great idea to try and have a romantic relationship with him during this time. Maybe give him some space to see if he can get his life back in control? He is just getting out of the hospital. Considering how dysregulated he has been he probably has great difficulty understanding his own emotions. How are you?

I know that he is but i feel like he played me. I mean I want to believe its the BPD/bipolar confusion talking because I can't believe that after all that time where it seemed like he did love me in that way he was just lying. It's really hard because at this point i'm so angry that i don't want to talk to him.

This is one of the hardest things to understand and deal with. I don't profess to be an expert but now after going through so many recycles I get to the point where I am not taking it as personally... .  still sucks... .  but not as much.

On the surface it looks like we are getting played and getting used. But that is not really the case.

We love them and take care of them because our love is consistent.  I believe their love for us is real... .  when they love us.  

But the disorder makes them totally undependable and unreliable. Could you ever imagine yourself falling in and out of love with some person over and over and over and over again?

That is what they do.  I think it is real but intermittent.

I don't think their love for us is real, not even by a long shot. I think they see us as puppets, some sort of pleasure toy for short term prospect fun.

[HarmKrakow]

It sounds like he is having a very difficult time emotionally. Hopefully he can get proper medical help and begin feeling a better. It probably isn't a great idea to try and have a romantic relationship with him during this time. Maybe give him some space to see if he can get his life back in control? He is just getting out of the hospital. Considering how dysregulated he has been he probably has great difficulty understanding his own emotions. How are you?

I know that he is but i feel like he played me. I mean I want to believe its the BPD/bipolar confusion talking because I can't believe that after all that time where it seemed like he did love me in that way he was just lying. It's really hard because at this point i'm so angry that i don't want to talk to him.

This is one of the hardest things to understand and deal with. I don't profess to be an expert but now after going through so many recycles I get to the point where I am not taking it as personally... .  still sucks... .  but not as much.

On the surface it looks like we are getting played and getting used. But that is not really the case.

We love them and take care of them because our love is consistent.  I believe their love for us is real... .  when they love us.  

But the disorder makes them totally undependable and unreliable. Could you ever imagine yourself falling in and out of love with some person over and over and over and over again?

That is what they do.  I think it is real but intermittent.

I don't think their love for us is real, not even by a long shot. I think they see us as puppets, some sort of pleasure toy for short term prospect fun.

[cookiedough]

Yeah I mean I could think that everything wasn't real but the last time I saw him he looked like he was in pain too.

He cried and told me i would make someone really happy when two days ago he was telling me I made him really happy.

I can't believe it was fake only that he is really emotionally damaged.

I don't want to hate him and believe that what we had when we had it wasn't real because I could see he was in pain.

He saw himself as this monster who lied to me but before that he would do so many nice things for me and take care of me.

The problem was his emotions and wants came first a lot of the time which wasn't easy to deal with.

He used to tell me I saved his life and I was the only thing that was keeping him going... .  my friend said that that was really strong and it put a lot of pressure on me.

[doubleAries]

Cookiedough--

You don't have to hate him. In fact, that's not a good idea. How do you feel peaceful if you are filled with hatred?

It's not really a matter of whether he's a liar, a bad person, or any of the rest of this kind of thinking.

It's a matter of of whether you can remain emotionally solid while dealing with a bipolar. Bipolars are NOT emotionally solid. They are all over the place. They aren't necessarily "lying", they are manic, then depressed, then manic, then depressed (many bipolars experience both these things at the SAME TIME). Oh--and irritable. That's a big symptom of bipolar. Do a little reading about bipolar disorder. This is a MOOD DISORDER.

Understanding the parameters of what you are dealing with is key. Right now, you don't understand. You are torn about whether or not he is lying, or in pain, or what. And here's the deal--bipolar disorder is a major mental illness. It causes demonstrable brain dysfunction. He CAN'T react react to life the same way you do. His moods are scrambled. There likely isn't even a such thing as a "regular" mood for him. They all seem regular.

People with a major mental illness often seem like they are in their own little world. That's because they ARE. They have a hard enough time trying to cope with themselves, let alone anyone else.

An intimate relationship requires genuine and sincere emotional interaction--every day. People with major mental illnesses cannot do this. It's not that they are tricking you, lying to you, cheating you. THEY CAN'T DO IT. And frequently, due to something called "anosognosia" (more than 60% of bipolars have anosognosia), they don't even know they can't do it. They don't even believe something is wrong with them.

I know this is a hard pill to swallow, believe me. My husband of almost 18 years is diagnosed bipolar with psychotic features (paranoid delusions). He also has bipolar driven antisocial personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder. He doesn't really have friends, and from his point of view, he DOES have friends. Yeah, friends from the old days in college (before bipolar) that he talks to on the phone about every year and a half. But can he deal with me on a daily basis, trying to have (shaky) genuine and sincere emotional interaction? NO, he CAN'T. He doesn't know that. He DOES know something is wrong, and he thinks it's me.

You either learn everything you can about bipolar and become emotionally solid and stable yourself, so you aren't torn from one end of the spectrum to the other (like he is), and can be a rock for not only yourself, but also him, or you admit you aren't emotionally solid enough and knowledgeable enough about mental illness, and move on, so that you can stop making it worse for both of you, by expecting him to react in a "normal" way when he CAN'T.

This is the key--if you want to have a relationship with him (which IS possible), you MUST accept that he cannot perform this way you would like him to. Your love CANNOT transform his limitations (they are brain chemistry oriented, not "love deficiency" oriented).

Look, I tell you this because I'm in the same boat. I care very much about my husband. I don't hate him, nor do I have to in order to care about myself. It was actually a big relief for me to finally understand that he simply CANNOT interact in an intimate relationship in anything resembling a "normal" way. The best he can do is pretty cold and indifferent, with occasional "bursts" of imitating what he thinks it is I want from him, and/or manic episodes (read about those--hypersexual, intense emotions, etc).

So, the question is: can you deal with this? What you see is what you get. What your relationship is right now is what the relationship is. You can change the dynamic some with your knowledge of what is happening to him and your own ability to not be offended and hurt by it, but you can't change him or his disorder. I did it for a long time, but can't anymore. Just not emotionally strong enough, plain and simple. I keep "forgetting" and trying to establish emotional interaction with him so we can be close. HE CAN'T. Then I'm hurt and angry. Which accomplishes nothing but resentment and frustration. And loneliness.

If being close with someone is what you need and want from a relationship, then don't try to do this with someone with bipolar. If you can back off, and don't need much emotional closeness and can deal with someone elses wild mood swings without getting thrown off your own footing, then it might work.

[cookiedough]

Honestly I don't think I can.

I mean i broke down and texted him about 2 and a half weeks ago ... .  but he didn't respond which really hurt because he always responded before... .  which makes me wonder even more what happened with him. But I know that in the long term I am not going to be able to deal with I'm in love with you I'm not in love with you and all of the other emotional crap that comes along with it.

Should I feel bad that I wasn't strong enough to stick around?

I've read all about the hyper-sexuality stuff associated with bipolar/borderline and I've seen it in action when he would stay up all night and that night that he cheated on me : (.

The truth is I tried to make this work with him and I visited him every day when he was in the hospital.

I wish I could help him out and be there with him and you say that a relationship with a person like him CAN work. However, I feel like it's hard to make it work when they keep on rejecting you and putting you down.

It's weird that they have a low self esteem when over the past year he's made my self esteem very low.

I don't hate him though the hardest part is I still love/am in love with him.

But because of the demanding relationship and my inability to not be affected by his emotional instability my grades went down and i lost touch with my family.

It's almost like I was so consumed with him and he wanted me to be consumed by him... .  he wanted me around all the time.

I wonder how he is now and maybe one day we will talk again and I will get sucked back in... .  but for my health I hope not.

It's tragic really to love someone but know that they are absolutely not good for you... .  he knew it too.

[cookiedough]

Maybe I wasn't good for him either because when they were changing up his meds I was really concerned and kind of emotional because they were just testing what would happen if they took him off his bipolar med and put him on a mainly anxiety med that had some bipolar benefits to see what would happen. But to me they were messing with the fact that he hadn't changed the way he felt about me in 2-3 months. It was hard for me to be there while they were changing up everything and to see him change in front of my eyes.

[cookiedough]

Another thing about the regular mood thing.

It's funny because when me and him talked to a therapist at the hospital the therapist asked me if I thought there was a regular for him and I couldn't say that there was because even when he was good and sweet it was different from the last time that he was sweet.

[doubleAries]

Should you feel bad that you weren't strong enough to stick around? What good will that do? We're all different--it doesn't help to go back and forth between trying to make him the weak person or yourself the weak person.

If that's how you feel, then that's how you feel, and you need to work through that. It's not a matter of what you "should" or "shouldn't" feel.

What I see in my husband is a "regular" mood (meaning more common mood) that is basically withdrawn. He isn't real interactive unless he is starting a manic phase. Which can be kind of "regular" as well. Point is, "regular" for him is cyclical. He cycles through certain moods--usually somewhat depressed and irritable, and also this strange giggly manic phase (which is also irritable). When he's really manic, he's also very narcissistic.

Medications for major mental illnesses, unfortunately, commonly only work for a while, then don't work anymore. Then the doctors need to change the medications. And sometimes that takes a while, to find another one that works. And if you want to be with him, that's part of what you have to be prepared for.

yes, it CAN work. But not the way you want it to. It will never be an intimate close relationship. You will have to be more of a caretaker. The focus will be on his moods, not yours.

I can't do it either. Not because I'm not "strong enough", just because I'm too emotionally sensitive. I am crushed by his rejection, which is not at all subtle. Every so often, he goes on a big rage and screams at me all the things he has wanted to say to me and blame me for for a long time. I am not able to "shine it on".

You aren't a bad person for not being able to do this. Neither is he. It's just one of those tragic things in life (obviously Utopia is not an option). But you see for yourself... .  you are having a hard enough time dealing with how all this makes you feel. So is it likely you can deal with years of cyclical mood swings from him?

Does he love you? Probably. As best he can. But what is going to be required of him is that he repress his mood swings so as to not hurt your feelings all the time. Cookiedough--if he could do that, he woudn't be bipolar. Both of you are going to be hurt, not enraptured, by this relationship. He can learn to regulate his moods better--IF he wants to, and certainly not overnight. And you would need to learn to become emotionally bullet proof--which is also not going to happen overnight. BUT it is never going to be the way you want it to be. You have to change the way you want it to be, or bail out. Yeah, you can be his friend, and he could probably use one. But only if you can really be his friend (and only in the way he can deal with) and not keep sneaking a romantic ideal agenda in.

Keep in mind here that friendship is one of the root issues. Friendship (genuine and sincere emotional interaction) is required in an intimate relationship as well as a platonic relationship. That's the part he is going to have HUGE difficulty with. You can't pressure him to do something he cannot do. You'll be crushed and hurt, and he'll be frustrated and angry. I don't have real good boundaries, and neither do you. That's something to work on in ourselves, instead of trying to change the bipolar guys to better fit our expectations. But personally I'm finally starting to see that boundary building needs to happen in a less volatile, less extreme setting than a relationship with a bipolar. 

[ForeverDad]

A few years ago someone wrote this, or maybe a a few someones... .  

Recovery takes time.  It might be that he needs to get stabilized, then while he's continuing therapy he's tasked with taking care of a plant.  Then after a few months of doing well then he can be tasked with taking care of a gold fish.  Maybe that's not the thing for your ex, but my point is this:  The way he is he can't really handle any meaningful emotional relationship.  He may have to start small, very small, and learn how to have a proper relationship on a small scale first.  The way he is now and has been most of his life, either he is overwhelmed or he overwhelms the other.  With you around he might not be able to overcome the emotional triggers and such.

Does the above apply to him?  I don't know.  But you can't be the one to save him or fix him.  You've had an emotional relationship with him and that emotional baggage is all he can see if you're around.  The professionals can make a difference if he will work with them.  One reason it might work with them is because they don't have an emotional relationship with him.  They won't be hugging him, going out to dinner with him or playing a game in the park with him.  They will be careful to stay emotionally neutral with him.  That's the only way to reach him, even then it's not a sure thing.

Yes, meds might help him.  If he is Bi-polar, they would help.  If it's more an issue of a PD then meds might help less, only moderating his extremes, for PDs therapy or counseling is more helpful.

Letting go is a process.  Your head is nearly there, give it time and your heart will accept the loss or relief or calm.

[doubleAries]

Yep. What ForeverDad said above.

What's happening here is you are experiencing grief, pain, loss. That grief, pain, and loss is associated with your bf. You want him to fix it. HE CAN'T.

It's yours. You have to work through it. It's hard. It's not anybody's "fault".

But you can lean on your friends here for some genuine and sincere emotional interaction to help you get through it. That's what we're doing here too.

[cookiedough]

Every time we tried to be just friends it turned into something more. And then we had a romantic relationship which he would want to be in on and off.

Even when we were just friends we would be platonic for a while but still hang out every day.

So I was a caretaker a lot as just a friend or not. But boundaries kept getting crossed.

And I would be extremely jealous if this time I stayed as his just his friend and something happened with someone else... .  it would crush me because not too long ago he said he loved me! And I know BPD or bipolar people are impulsive and sometimes over sexual so to him it might not be a big deal but as a girl I see that kind of stuff as emotional.

He said he would be jealous to see me with another guy too but he would have to learn how to deal with it... .  and he cried (before he kicked me out) when I asked him if it would be ok if I went to see another guy that night (which I wouldn't have done that night I was just being mean : ()

I think one of the hardest things about this is that we were best friends on top of being "romantic".

So I lost my best friend too.

I just think that I'm too young I'm only 20 and I have too many things I want to do for myself in life. I need to do good in school and I can't be the caretaker he needs.

When I was a good caretaker for him I would spend way too much time with him and forget about me.

Ironically our romantic relationship blossomed when I was the best caretaker I could be which ties in to your point doublearies that it is more of a caretaker than a close double sided romantic relationship.

Much of the time it was about him, his meds, the way he was feeling.

It was acceptable for him to feel bad and down and not right but it wasn't for me (unless it was about him cheating on me).

As forever dad said, I would trigger him a lot because of our emotional relationship and baggage.

I guess that's bad but I was trying to have a normal relationship with him it's just that his moods affected me and our emotional stuff triggered the stuff that would make me mad... .  ironic isn't it.

He cheated on almost every girlfriend he's ever had and he's had turbulent relationships with a lot of girls not just me so it's a deeper issue than our love.

I just hope he can get the help he needs and maybe one day I'll stop reminiscing about the good times because I can't get them back.

[doubleAries]

I completely understand, cookiedough--I spent 18 years trying to have a "normal" relationship with my husband too. Refusing to acknowledge that he just simply cannot do that. Even now I "forget". We were talking about trying to be friends. UH, HELLO? That's the part that's missing from the intimate relaionship part! Now we're going to single that part out and magically achieve it? Holy Hangovers, Batman!

While it has been a relief to understand that he's not simply being mean (he can't interact genuinely in an emotional manner, and his focus is on distraction from his negative feelings and immersion in happy ones--for HIMSELF), I also have to accept that I am having great difficulty in truly accepting that fact.

You can and will have good times again. After you process the difficult feelings you have now, you will begin to rebuild your self esteem and sense of purpose and meaning, and that will be attractive to someone who wants to share genuine and sincere emotions with you.

It just takes practice--don't beat yourself up for having the courage to get out there and learn what you do want and what you don't want. Pain surely isn't fun, but it IS what forces us to define and refine our standards and goals. Hard as it is to believe right now, there will come a day when you look back on this time as a valuable life forming experience. 

doubleAries

[cookiedough]

Thanks everyone. Especially sabine, foreverdad and doublearies.

I really appreciate how much you've helped me in the past month.

It's hard and it hurts but I have to look out for myself and move on. He is trying to make his life better and I need to do the same. It's true it's hard for us to realize that's just how they are and I feel that makes for a destructive relationship full of triggers and sadness.

I had a lot of good times with this person but he's not here now and there is nothing I can do about it but go forward. I need to find who I am again and I feel like I'm beginning to do that... .  it's not all about him anymore. Maybe one day I'll see him again but for now I just have to believe that that's the way it was supposed to be.

I just have to keep busy and focused on school and work because the times I miss him the most is when I have time to think about him.

Thanks, (and I'll probably be back when I have another meltdown : ))

[Newton]

cookiedough... .  that last post of yours sounded like acceptance... .  that is a very good place to be! 

I hope to hear from you soon... .  I'm sure others here do as well 

[Sabine]

It's hard and it hurts but I have to look out for myself and move on. He is trying to make his life better and I need to do the same. It's true it's hard for us to realize that's just how they are and I feel that makes for a destructive relationship full of triggers and sadness.

I had a lot of good times with this person but he's not here now and there is nothing I can do about it but go forward. I need to find who I am again and I feel like I'm beginning to do that... .  it's not all about him anymore. Maybe one day I'll see him again but for now I just have to believe that that's the way it was supposed to be.

I just have to keep busy and focused on school and work because the times I miss him the most is when I have time to think about him.

This is impressive cookiedough! I would print it out and stick it on your mirror or on the fridge door and read it whenever you doubt yourself for moving on. I did this kind of thing for awhile and it helped to quiet the 'rattle' in my head and heart... .   

[doubleAries]

cookiedough--

Don't wait to post again until you have a "meltdown". The rest of us, as well as other new members, need to hear about the acceptance, the light at the end of the tunnel! 

doubleAries

[cookiedough]

I'm almost afraid of calling it "acceptance" because that might mean I never loved him and I'm over it.

But thats not true. I believe I am still in love with him but only when I think of the good times.

I just can't keep on living feeling guilty and sad all the time. This already went on for a year and who knows how much longer it will take for him to get better.

I'm glad I had panic attacks and felt like I couldn't breathe and cried for hours and couldn't eat for days. I think because I let myself go through that I'm genuinely starting to feel better.

I feel calm and happy today. I'm not afraid to talk to my family and I even had lunch with them.

I miss him and I miss being in a romantic relationship but the ups and downs were destroying me and my self confidence.

I just need to start working on making my life better and just know that what I felt was real and believe that what he felt was real too but in the end it didn't matter because he would just switch all the time.

So even though sometimes I think about the good times I can honestly say that not being in a relationship with him feels like I have a weight lifted off my shoulders... .  for the longest time I was afraid to say that because I felt cold and like I didn't really love/was in love with him. But no I was/am in love with him but that weight I felt was just too much and I feel like admitting that It was too much to handle and just trying to focus on me is what is making me feel better.

And of course you guys have been really helpful.

I feel so much better knowing I'm not the only one who went through this and I feel fortunate enough to have people like you who even though you don't know me you seem to care about what I'm going through and that means a lot.

I'm not over it but I need to take care of me for a change.

[cookiedough]

Who knows I might have another break down but today I feel good.

[doubleAries]

Thats good. I feel pretty good today too (emotionally--I have the worst toothache I've ever had right now, and that does NOT feel good)

Cookiedough--just because things don't work out and you're ready to move on doesn't mean you didn't love him. Nor does it mean the relationship was a "failure". I'm sure you both got soemthing good out of it.

Acceptance doesn't mean happiness, it doesn't mean indifference, and it doesn't mean hate. It just means understanding. 

[ForeverDad]

Acceptance doesn't mean happiness, it doesn't mean indifference, and it doesn't mean hate. It just means understanding. 

Acceptance also means accepting what is.  Your dreams and hopes didn't work out, they were just that - dreams and wishes, not reality.  So accept reality.  Right now it's difficult to do, but over time it will make more and more sense.

[cookiedough]

Yeah I guess dreaming and hoping that I could live with someone who would keep on hurting me (even though it was a part of his illness) was silly and unrealistic. But when you love someone you try as hard as you can until you realize that loving them isn't enough. I truly believe he loved me, but that wasn't enough either because he was too unstable.

[BillTheCat]

Something about what doubleAries said really hit home with me: you have to accept that your relationship now is what your relationship will be in the future.  It's a dream to hope that your partner will change, or will suddenly realize his/her behavior is harmful.  The idealized version of our relationship in our heads if things were "normal" is basically a dream.

It feels like the best we can do is change ourselves to work towards something livable.  If your partner wakes up and realizes they are part of the problem, then consider yourself VERY lucky.

[cookiedough]

Yeah he did admit something was wrong with him and that he was the problem and he was trying to get help.

It's just that while he was in the hospital towards the end something "changed" in his head again and he didn't feel like he was in love with me anymore when two day's before he was. He wanted me to stick around as a friend again but I just couldn't.

It hasn't been easy at all but I'm finally starting to feel more confident and happy again.

Yeah I could've stayed as just his friend but for me my feelings didn't change. Sure the drama and ups and downs were too much but staying until something clicked in his head again and he decided he wanted to be romantic with me again was just not going to happen... .  been there too many times.

Also who knows how long it will take for him to get better... .  I tried to be there fore him but in the end his problems came first and he felt like pushing me away emotionally was the best way to get better I guess.

[cookiedough]

You know I feel like the break down I had this weekend is what got me to think more clearly.

I felt like I was wasting away... and even though I didn't see him anymore I still wasn't doing anything to take care of myself, I decided that's a sad way to live.

After all that time of stressing over him and how our relationship would turn out and how his meds would affect him I feel relief.

I was worried because I felt that I wasn't strong enough to stay longer and go through this with him but honestly now I feel like I was strong for walking away. No it wasn't mean, it was putting myself first for the first time in about a year and not agreeing with every "switch" in his head.

I'm not blaming him and I don't think he lied or did anything on purpose but it was still too much to deal with.