Boundaries... what are they and how do they work

[Being Mindful]

Dear Survive, I know you have been asking about boundaries. I haven't responded yet as I've been thinking on this. Mik and I have been talking about how I did boundaries and when I have a bit more time, I'd like to give a thought out explanation of what they are for me. I'm thinking it might be helpful for others too. I haven't forgotton about your question. I just want to put together a response that has some detail. I'll get back to you on it but in the mean time here are some high level thoughts on it.

Some misconceptions I think are:

1. Boundaries are confused with behavioral contracts that we make with our kids. This is not boundaries.

2. Boundaries are not intended to modify or correct their behavior (although they have been effective for my d. to learn from).

3. Boundaries are not an intended punishment for others.

Boundaries are:

1. Are for you and are value based.

2. Exist in our everyday lives with all relationships, we are mostly not aware of them, until you stop to think how you interact with everyone in your life.

Boundaries for me:

1. Helped to re-establish my well-being.

2. Helped to shift the power back.

3. Helped me to then begin working on other skills.

4. Were protection for me and my other healthy family members.

5. Demonstrated to our younger nonBPD.d how boundaries are effective in how she interacts with her BPD.sister.


So, there is a start. I'd encourage others to post how boundaries have been helpful to them.

Being Mindful

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Reality]

Being Mindful,

Your post is very important, I think.

Boundaries re-connect us with our selves, don't they? 

The trauma of living with a pwBPD disconnects us from our values.  We become Picasso paintings, fragmented.

Boundaries mean being centred, more focused, more certain and determined.

Reality

[mikmik]

BeingMindful,

My first steps were taken, as I have stated on other posts, due to a lot to your encouragement.  I for one, imagined myself as a valuable human being, with needs that are OK to take front seat to dd's needs at a given moment.  I have begun tending to my spiritual needs.  I have done some very strong self care in the forms of a massage and pedicure.  I have covered my gray hair for a more youthful look.  I have been back to the gym three times while on vacation.  I have gone to lunch and to dinner with a friend.  I have told a couple of people how hard things are with dd.  Will this last?  Don't know.  But so far, it feels pretty OK.

Each in and of themselves are small, but important steps.  Bu the most important thing, in devising a boundary with dd, is that I deserve something good in my life, and it is OK for me to have some bits and pieces of happy in my life.  Is this detatching with love?  Begin with a boudary.  It is powerful.

mik

[lbjnltx]

I would like to add to the concept of boundaries :

Boundaries protect our relationships

[Kate4queen]

Boundaries help you rediscover your 'self' and separate you from the craziness of the BPD world. I'm still working on the constant reinforcement of them and my son's constant need to pick away at the.

[Reality]

Hi everyone,

What are some examples of boundaries one might have?

Reality

[twojaybirds]

boundaries keep me in check as to what I will or will not tolerate

[qcarolr]

The #1 value-boundary in my home is to treat others with kindness and respect. If you are unable to do this then time out is required. If you cannot do time on your own, then others in the home can ask you to take time out. Sometimes the ones being disrepected have to leave the area to give the out of contol one time out. Over time this is working better and better.

All the other boundaries and behavior 'contracts' fall under the umbrella of this one. I am unable to be consistent with it - so I take lots of time outs - due to others actions and due to my own. DD26 knows if she cannot regain self-control I will call the police for the ultimate time out. I have called them before. Currently she calms down when I walk away - and she is not allowed to follow me. I am better able to stay calm and not rage back at her. DD's episodes of rage are miuch less frequent, usually triggered by bf's actions, and I just don't hang around to defend myself against her projections of blame. I can even sit quietly in the same room with her, offer to listen, and she can regain her composure. I just have to keep my cool. And she is on probation with a one year jail sentence on her head -a great motivator for her to get it back together. Also not using drugs while on probation. Hope she can retain some of these positive skills when out from under this outside authority. She has also been evicted from our house, and knows I will do this again if needed. Those were such hard, hard times in our home. Detachment with anger and resentment did lead to me to learning about detachment with love (Al Anon principle).

Gd knows how to take a time out as well. And even though it impacts her, she does talk about it all with me later. Can only pray that we are each learning new skills along the way. She is able to go to her room and shut the door - sometimes I walk her to her room. She can go outside or to a neighbors, and has done this in the past. She seems to get that her mommy is able to get her self-control back and always says she is sorry later. This is a new behavior from DD in past few months - to acknowlege her responsiblity and to get that it came from her emotions with bf actions.  Gd is learning many good things from all this as it loops around.

Dh has the hardest time with the walking away or staying in the space calm and quiet - still feels like faliure/loss of power/giving in with him. Takes lots and lots of self-validation and validation from others to get to place where can really own my values in the face of extreme behaviors of others. Dh is at least able to talk about the principles later - progress is being made.

Now sometimes I am the one in an over-emotional state. I am more of complainer -whiny - than rager. Thanks to meds that work for my bipolar and lots of work over the years. It took me a long time to get to where I am today - remembering this gives me more patience with DD's learning curve. And reconnecting with my spiritual needs over the past year has been a great boost to this process - has allowed me to forgive myself which leads to forgiveness of others.

Wish I could say all this with fewer words.

qcr  

[qcarolr]

And I have a card on my wall by my desk - maybe these are boundaries. I called them goals back in Nov 2009:

Raise gd in a healthy environment

Live a peaceful life

Help DD help herself - letting go

Maybe these are value statements that the boundaries grew out of.

I did not know the language of 'validation' 'detachment with love' 'values based boundaries' or understand what BPD was back then. I had just taken out a restraining order for gd and I against DD while she was in jail 3 days after bad fight with bf. 65 days in jail, then homeless for almost 2 years. I cried for first 6 months. Hard choices - If I had chance to do it again, would I have made different choices with all the skills I have learned since then?

qcr  

[Survive2012]

Thank you very much, Being Mindful.

I really need to understand well these boundaries. Everything is still new for me.

I will continue reading as long as you find the answers and the explanations.

Thank you very much for what you are doing for all of us!

Have a good day,

Survive

[Survive2012]

Walking away is something I also do when my son15 gets violent. But I don't walk away when my eldest 18 is around because I fear that if I am not there, my 15yo will start the violence with eldest18.

Have you other examples of boundaries?

Thanks,

Survive

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

I left out the second step with the walking away - at least in my current situation. I need to come back when things have calmed down, and if DD is open to it, and use my validation skills to work through some of the painful things with DD. This was so impossible not that long ago. As I practice validation - get myself into a quieter, centered place (wisemind) then I am able to be sincerely validating of the issues tossed out in the anger and rage.

Boundaries, at least for me, only work when enveloped in validation.

qcr  

[heronbird]

Oh my gosh  

Not that word again, haha,boundaries, someone needs to write a whole book on just this topic dont they.

We have to have them but they dont work. Well some do, I guess it will be different for everyone. They are just a nightmare for us, when dd was living at home anyway.

I think telling someone who has a dd/ds with BPD that they have to have boundaries is a bad thing. My older dd kept telling me that, as she did psychology at uni, she said it works really well to have boundaries so I kept trying and it was so hard it was making things so much worse, its like saying to someone with a baby, you have to breast feed yet there is no milk and it hurts like nothing else each time you try, then it does not work and it makes you feel a failure and useless. I didnt need that when I was going through multiple suicide attempts and sitting in hospital every few weeks all night long and not getting any sleep.

(not me doing the suicide attempts) |iiiijust in case you were wondering.

You know the funny thing. When we first took dd to a P, after a while, his diagnosis was that we had too many boundaries, yes can you believe that, hahaha, I said I would like to have boundaries. She was and still is a nightmare to say no to. Fortunatly, I dont have that responsibility now, her dh does, good luck with that one haha

[mikmik]

Reality,

My newest boundary is to do something nice for myself, and not succomb to my dd119 saying she needs me at home because she is not feeling well.  She is an adult woman.  She is in bed sleeping.  I had plans, the first time in MONTHS to go out with a friend, when both of our schedules aligned.  I got home an hour and a half later than I would normally.  She blew up, and told her T how I don't take care of her when she is sick.  I was feeling fearful of this when I was out, but I stayed and talked about what was going on at home, why I isolated myself.  My friend told me, all of our mutual friends have ___ going on, things they don't want to talk about.  Noone has it easy, noone is burden free.  She told me I should not isolate myself from our group.  In fact when they get together once a month, they talk about a lot of stuff, and I don't have to talk about my kid if I don't want to.  She invited me back.  Told me I needed to be in the group again.  I realized that it was true.  And the world did not end because I went out for me, and was not there to watch dd sleep. The sun rose in the morning.  I am sure she will bring it up, and I will tell her, just as she had needs, so do I.


   That is my new boundary.

mik

[Being Mindful]

Excellent mik!

[Being Mindful]

Oh my gosh  

Not that word again, haha,boundaries, someone needs to write a whole book on just this topic dont they.

We have to have them but they dont work. Well some do, I guess it will be different for everyone. They are just a nightmare for us, when dd was living at home anyway.

I think telling someone who has a dd/ds with BPD that they have to have boundaries is a bad thing. My older dd kept telling me that, as she did psychology at uni, she said it works really well to have boundaries so I kept trying and it was so hard it was making things so much worse, its like saying to someone with a baby, you have to breast feed yet there is no milk and it hurts like nothing else each time you try, then it does not work and it makes you feel a failure and useless. I didnt need that when I was going through multiple suicide attempts and sitting in hospital every few weeks all night long and not getting any sleep.

(not me doing the suicide attempts) |iiiijust in case you were wondering.

You know the funny thing. When we first took dd to a P, after a while, his diagnosis was that we had too many boundaries, yes can you believe that, hahaha, I said I would like to have boundaries. She was and still is a nightmare to say no to. Fortunatly, I dont have that responsibility now, her dh does, good luck with that one haha

Dear Heron,

Everyone's situations are so different and everyone needs to find what works for them. When you think about boundaries, we all have them because we all have things in our lives that we value. Think about your relationships with friends and what are the values in those relationships. What do you tolerate with them? What do you love about them? What would you do if one of those value based boundaries are violated?

My d. actually got worse when I first started to enforce my boundaries. After consistent application over a long period of time, she learned from them. It was horrible when she got worse but I was committed to my values. What I learned from this is that my boundaries can't be wrong... .they are mine. My boundaries can't not work, I get to choose how to react when the line has been crossed. They can't not work because my boundary does not control the actions of my d.

Boundary:

I work outside the home and I am committed to my job. My job is important to my well-being, to my family, to my financial situation. I value my job. I do not disrupt my job for numerous, interupting personal phone calls.  How do I apply this... .when a friend calls on my cell during my work day, I might answer it, I might not. My d. use to call multiple times, over and over. Out of fear and her "control" of me, I'd answer it every single time. It disrupted my day, my work, etc. My boundary was being crossed... .I value my job. When I first enforced my boundary, she raged even more. I had to live with my anxiety, learn that I can't control her behavior or what action she will take when I don't answer her call. When I first started to enforce my boundary, I would take the call and tell her... .I'm at work, I can't talk, I have responsibilities, I value my job. I will call you after 5:00. She screamed, she yelled, she told her t. horrible things about me not responding or taking care of her. She called back over and over. Each time my message was the same. Then, I stopped answering her calls completely. Over time, this behavior stopped. I can now take a call from her during my work day. She is quick to the point and we end the call. My boundary I enforced and then was able to scale it back to where she respects me and my job.

That is a long example and how I enforced it.

Others:

I value myself and I will not tolerate verbal or physical abuse.

I value myself and I cannot harm myself by trying to fix her.

I value peace in my home.

I value safety in my home.

All of the above, I would not tolerate with a friend... .even if she was ill.

Being Mindful

[qcarolr]

I have this on my wall by my desk at home - "Parents' Bill of Rights". It seems to fit this topic - statements of values and examples of boundaries to fit them. It was posted here a long time ago. The link is to the NAMI group in greater Chicago.

www.namigc.org/content/fact_sheets/familyInfo/parentbillofrights.pdf

Here are the bullets points that seem to be values to me.

1. The right to survive.

2. The right to privacy, to lead their own lives.

3. The right not to go broke.

4. The right not to be psychologically abused.

5. The right not to be physically abused.

6. The right to be parents to their other children.

7. The right to express their emotions.

8. The right to respite and vacations.

9. The right to receive help too.

10. The right to set house rules.

What do you all think?

qcr  

[cfh]

Love them all but 3, 8 and 9 are my favorites!

[twojaybirds]

Nice wall of boundaries

I might add

A right to open a bottle of champagne on New Year's Eve and celebrate the passing of 2012 and the hope for internal peace in 2013   

[mikmik]

I like all of qcr's "rights".  It is good to be reminded that it is OK to have these things in our lives, and that we deserve them!

So, when I am stressed, I will have a new way of counting to 10!  I will recite qcr's list in my head!  Whoo Hoo.

Mik

[qcarolr]

Just a reminder - I am only a messenger. This awesome list comes from NAMI. Helps me accept that I am a real preson with real needs tha count.

Happy New Year.   

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jbmom]

We had a class on boundaries just recently, and I had it all wrong.

As mentioned above boundaries are for us, not them... they do not change others behavior. It is a limit we set for our selves to basically walk away from the chaos. It is not a punishment or retaliation, it can sound like if you do... .  I will... .  

My boundary.

If you yell at me, I will leave the room.

If you curse, I will not respond to you.

If you through your clean clothes in with your dirty ones, I will not re-wash them.

Its a limit to protect my sanity and self respect.  I find it can't be a big expectation. That won't work with us yet.

[lbjnltx]

I would like to add to the concept of boundaries :

Boundaries protect our relationships

Now that I have a few minutes I want to expand on this a little.

Boundaries allow us to stay in relationship w/others... .  they create the safe space to be able to stay connected while protected.  In this safe space we can have calm minds to make decisions and plans for responding as opposed to reacting.

Does this ring true with anyone else?  What would you like to add?

[Survive2012]

It is still difficult for me to understand boundaries. I am trying hard. They are rules one gives himself to stay "alive" in the big storm BPD brings in families?

Survive

[lbjnltx]

Hello survive2012

Boundaries need to be created based on what we value enough to protect.

What do you value? 

Here is an example:

I value my emotional stability.  If my emotional stability is threatened by someone... .  anyone... .  I will remove myself from that situation until it is safe to return to that person's presence.  In order for it to be safe to return to that person's presence I need to be calm and so do they.  I would state my boundary like this:

When I feel threatened by rage or abuse I will take a time out.  When we are both calm we can come back together and revisit this discussion.

Will the other person allow me to take a time out?  Maybe not... .  maybe they will follow me around the house and continue to rage and verbally abuse me... .  at this point I will hold firm to my boundaries and remove myself from the home for my protection and the protection of the relationship.  I will do this everytime.  Perhaps the other person will learn that I am firm in my boundary and allow me to take a time out... .  even if they don't I will not change my boundary.  Boundaries need to be well thought out and planned for... .  carefully.  Being consistant is key.  If we are inconsistant it sends a message to the other person that if they push hard enough or long enough we will give in and that sets up a pattern for escalating behaviors.

Does that help?

[Survive2012]

Oh YES, Ibjnitx,

Thanks! I understand now, I think!

The boundary you mention will be mine too. I need it when my son gets violent at me.

I can't think of another one right now, but i am going to try.

Thank you very much for your help!

Survive

[lbjnltx]

Hello survive2012

Boundaries need to be created based on what we value enough to protect.

What do you value? 

Here is an example:

I value my emotional stability.  If my emotional stability is threatened by someone... .  anyone... .  I will remove myself from that situation until it is safe to return to that person's presence.  In order for it to be safe to return to that person's presence I need to be calm and so do they.  I would state my boundary like this:

When I feel threatened by rage or abuse I will take a time out.  When we are both calm we can come back together and revisit this discussion.

Will the other person allow me to take a time out?  Maybe not... .  maybe they will follow me around the house and continue to rage and verbally abuse me... .  at this point I will hold firm to my boundaries and remove myself from the home for my protection and the protection of the relationship.  I will do this everytime.  Perhaps the other person will learn that I am firm in my boundary and allow me to take a time out... .  even if they don't I will not change my boundary.  Boundaries need to be well thought out and planned for... .  carefully.  Being consistant is key.  If we are inconsistant it sends a message to the other person that if they push hard enough or long enough we will give in and that sets up a pattern for escalating behaviors.

Does that help?

Oh YES, Ibjnitx,

Thanks! I understand now, I think!

The boundary you mention will be mine too. I need it when my son gets violent at me.

I can't think of another one right now, but i am going to try.

Thank you very much for your help!

Survive

How would the above boundary protect the relationship?

In my situation ... .  when raged at and verbally abused I would initially react negatively, become unsure of what to say or how to say it, say something hurtful and the situation would escalate.  From these situations I began to develop an anxiety disorder and would walk on eggshells.  The safe space and assurance that boundaries created gave me a place to be calm, choose how to respond instead of react, and not cause escalation/damage to the relationship further. 

As time went on I learned skills (using SET, validation)that keep me engaged w/an emotionally dysregulated person longer so that I can help her work towards wisemind.  Over time trust was built and now she and I can converse about anything and everything in constructive ways partly due to me and partly due to her having skills too.

Did my boundary change? No... .  I just don't feel that my emotional stability is threatened any longer.  The boundary is still in place should I feel that way again.  This boundary protects our relationship.

lbj

[Being Mindful]

I would like to add to the concept of boundaries :

Boundaries protect our relationships

Now that I have a few minutes I want to expand on this a little.

Boundaries allow us to stay in relationship w/others... .  they create the safe space to be able to stay connected while protected.  In this safe space we can have calm minds to make decisions and plans for responding as opposed to reacting.

Does this ring true with anyone else?  What would you like to add?

This is so true. I was going to go NC with my d until I decided to focus on me within the relationship. Once I had boundaries, I became healthier, stronger. Our relationship is better than ever, even though her BPD is ever present. Once I understood my boundaries and enforced them I was much calmer, not reactive and it opened the door for me to have empathy which turned into being able to use other skills. Our relationship is intact, it is challenged at times, but we come back to center much quicker now. We are now in a place to be able to have a relationship with her, we have detached with love, we still watch in pain as she continues to struggle and fall, but we keep using our skills which help her. We are now a place of comfort for her, where communication, sharing, love is probably her only place in her world that is comfortable, maybe even tolerable for her.

I can't stress enough what boundaries have meant to us.

[twojaybirds]

I know I have lots of boundaries not just with my dd.  They all help me stay healthy in each situation.

work:  I will not work past a certain hour

          I will not work on weekends or vacations

         I will take my lunch break every day

knitting:

       I will not knit for money

       I will not give knit items as personal gifts

       I will not allow my yarn stash to grow out of its current space

good friends:

      I will say no if I cant honor a request

      I will ask for their help or support

      I will be honest

dd:

      I will offer help when I can (emotionally and physically)

      I will not judge

      I will not pry or ask questions 

      I will say no if I cant honor a request

      I will be honest

         

[Survive2012]

Dear Being Mindful,

You say you enforced your boundaries. How did you enforce them? Are there two steps? (In the first one you create the boundary, in the second one you enforce it?)

Survive