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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: Did your BPD just fit right in to your life?  (Read 4929 times)
BleedsOrange
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« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2013, 10:49:56 AM »

OH YEAH. She fit right in. Loved everything I loved. Loved my friends. Loved whatever we would do as long as it was with me. Until it was apparent that she had me. Then started the descent, the criticism, the devaluing, the projection, intermittent reinforcement, telling me how messed up in the head I was, how i paid too little attention to her, how i was clingy, blah blah blah with increasing frequency till I was ground to dust (allowed myself to be ground). First everything with me was great and I was to be worshipped. Then eventually, I was below her. We were never on a level playing field. Pretty textbook stuff, huh?
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suz124w
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« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2013, 11:20:03 AM »

Blleeds Orange,

DITTO!  Mine's fit in with the friends and family of his choosing though.  He very much tried to influence me about who I should spend my time with, usually it was the people he thought he had on-side or who were no threat to him or too demanding on my time etc.

Benevolent Sun

I felt EXACTLY the way you do for a while, but take consolation from this fact.  A couple of days after the split, I told my ex that I regretted not committing to him and would be prepared to do so to save the relationship... .  this was a big(too big) sacrafice for me but, guess what his response was... .  ? basically he turned me down, saying it was too late, too much water under the bridge etc. I was devastated because he had been calling me claiming he was heartbroken about the rejection, claiming i was callous, offering an olive branch or two.  When I came up with the goods, he didn't want it!  Then I was heartbroken and feeling rejected (although I made the offer of commitment as a last ditch attempt to make things work not through careful consideration).  Anyway, it was clear to me pretty soon afterwards that he had moved on, wanted to use me for triangulation (read definition) purposes for a bit, to see me crawl , have an ego boost... .  whatever... .  Evidence is that he had prepared an exit strategy some time before and what he was giving me was just a script... .  maybe that's why it all sounded so generic to me!

So, don't waste any more time on regrets... .  the goalposts would probably have been moved anyway as they were for me.  And then you're left even more confused than ever... .  but of course, they've skilfully got you to take responsibility for the loss of the relationship, haven't they?

Clever manipulation.  Anyone would think they'd done it all before!
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BleedsOrange
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« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2013, 12:07:39 PM »

Yeah. She didnt trust the people who knew her from back in the day with me fairly quickly after the first ass kissings. And my friends who she THOUGHT posed a threat I was not allowed to spend time with.
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« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2013, 12:55:57 PM »

It seems it was way more that they were fitting into OUR lives than it was us fitting into theirs. That it was more that they left our lives than we left theirs.
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suz124w
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« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2013, 01:26:47 PM »

myself,

'it was more they left our lives than we left theirs'



This is an excellent observation!  I know that I, for one, felt abandoned in my home, almost bereft when the relationship finished.  That is because his being at my house was like AN OCCUPATION in the sense of an alien army occupying a country, taking over and treating it as their own, laying down their rules, governing etc.

When he left, I was relieved initially as I had my home back, but I missed the company.  It wasn't until a very dear, very elderly friend said to me 'It's better to be alone than to keep poor company' that I had an a-ha moment.  It dawned on me that I had actually been USED and I had allowed this to happen because I wanted the companionship he offered.  Even the drama was companionship of a kind.  Now, after a year, I have to accept that it was mostly BAD company and the price I had to pay (morally and often financially) was way too high!

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suz124w
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« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2013, 01:32:53 PM »

Another point is that his home was a lot more basic. I am not saying that with any snobbery as I don't really care about that kind of thing at all.  However, he did live like a student and he was in his forties!  On reflection, I think his flat was used as a kind of army base where he had the rudiments of comfort, everything you need but nothing more, no real luxuries.

The luxuries were got from the women in his life.  He reaped the benefit of their more comfortable lives and also saved himself money into the bargain, money he spent largely on himself buying boy toys like guitars, tv/dvds etc.  It sounds cynical but I think this was his modus vivendi.  It was well-rehearsed and not incidental to the plot as I initially thought.  My first visit to his place played right into his victim/clueless laddie routine when in fact, he was a player and a very skilled one at that!
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Benevolent Sun
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« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2013, 03:56:02 PM »

OH YEAH. She fit right in. Loved everything I loved. Loved my friends. Loved whatever we would do as long as it was with me. Until it was apparent that she had me. Then started the descent, the criticism, the devaluing, the projection, intermittent reinforcement, telling me how messed up in the head I was, how i paid too little attention to her, how i was clingy, blah blah blah with increasing frequency till I was ground to dust (allowed myself to be ground). First everything with me was great and I was to be worshipped. Then eventually, I was below her. We were never on a level playing field. Pretty textbook stuff, huh?

Bleeds,

verything you said here struck chord with the exceptions of getting accused o being clingy, and being messed up in the head. Everything else went down exactly the same way, she loved that I'm athletic and played sports. She would come to my games, hang out with the guys after. Got along well with my friends, and their significant others.

 Then, she began to pull away from my friends at parties, and isolate herself. Claim that I didn't pay enough attention to her, she wasn't the center of my attention in a social function, but isn't that just socializing? It was fine for her to leave me alone when we were partying with her friends, and she didn't care if she was the center of my attention. She would get upset if I played beer pong or some other party game with someone other than her. Ive never noticed anyone else' SO care about these things, and believe me I am paying attention to relationship dynamics more than ever. Maybe I'm wrong, I just don't think its a problem to play with a friend once in a while especially, when my buddy and I played together kind of as a tradition. Again i could be wrong.

 Later she resented that I played sports, and that I had hobbies because she didn't have them. I'm not guessing about this, she told me flat out. She wanted me to stop, sports were the only way I could go out without a fight, and she wanted to take that away. And that became a fight as well. I want to maintain my sports for as long as my body allows, I'm sure if parenting duties become part of my responsibilities I may have slow down. But I will be involved in coaching my son/daughter, its an interest of mine. In fact I cut down on the frequency when we started dating, I wanted to spend more time with her.

 Wasn't enough, maybe that's the lesson, its never enough. I'll paraphrase somebody from above. It's like trying to hit a moving target, once you get close to meeting one demand, a new one pops up. And like all of you out there, you just get worn down. I miss her and all that, and believe I could take another bout/make it work, but that is just because the time that has past and I've somewhat built myself back up. The loss of confidence during that relationship still blows my mind, I don't know how I became so unsure of myself, which is why I blame myself for losing her now. I complain about the behaviors and things that bothered me, but I still think it was my shortcomings that caused the breakdown. What I do know is I have identified what bothers me in a relationship, and I will not accept those things from another woman. She is and was my weakness apparently, she had me, my first time in a rs, could have shaped me into any kind of bf she wanted. I've learned these things about myself and have put them use already, a woman is needy and demanding, I call them on it, say sorry I'm not into that anymore. There's one that got away with it, never again though
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Benevolent Sun
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« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2013, 04:03:23 PM »

Suz, you were the one I paraphrased, and when I read it again, it seems like you are saying there was no other outcome. I know I'm all over the place with these thoughts. I go from missing her, to brief moments of clarity when I believe someone else will treat me better. Then bouncing back to the I don't want to share myself like I did with any one else. I meant all the things that I said to her, I didn't have a time frame in mind where steps 1,2, and 3 had to be taken. I just thought that it was her and I for the long haul and the rest would take care of itself. To get all cliche on it, maybe it happened for a reason, and I am just as naive in my thought process now, as I was when I was during the relationship. I'm older but this is all new to me
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BleedsOrange
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« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2013, 04:22:56 PM »

Remember, these things didnt happen to us they were based on choices you and she and me and mine made. I understand the feeling of the insecurity being the source of the breakdown, because you know, like I that that isnt an attractive trait and makes you act all wonky. Dont beat yourself up about it. Even though we CHOSE to be there, lets look at a hypothetical:

A person is confined, like a lab rat in that situation. Like we felt we couldn't, they actually CAN't leave. I promise that they would have the same anxiety, insecurity and desperation.

I say it a lot, but read about intermittent reinforcement and its effects. They are textbook. This does not place blame on them, it has nothing to do with blame, but it helped me know that all those weird ways I acted at the end, were normal to the environment I was in- and you too.

Think about your other relationships. Did you act like that? I didn't. The had a natural build up and break down and separation- no matter how nasty the separation was. The way you felt/do feel is normal. The things we need to look at are why we stayed in a relationship that made us feel that way and most of all, let go but not forget. Never fall for this again. Never let someone else redefine you. Holla! ... .  God I love ending like that Smiling (click to insert in post)
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suz124w
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« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2013, 04:29:54 PM »

Benevolent Sun,

I think you are taking on way too much responsibility for the demise of the relationship.  I do think it is a moving target we were dealing with.  At first we think we can keep up with it, even predict it, but we eventually realise that we just haven't got enough stamina.  

But you know, being in a relationship shouldn't be like taking part in a triathlon, you may have to work at it at times but you shouldn't have to work at it that hard!  I don't think you were being naive, you were dealing unwittingly with someone who is disordered and that is a tall order.  From the sound of things, you were travelling hopefully (maybe a bit too hopefully), you started off with the best of intentions and you did give it your best shot.  It's just that in the end you had to do nothing but firefighting and that is soo draining... .  Now, that time has passed, and you feel a bit like your old self, you have the resources to think you could have and should have handled things better.  The fact is, you did your best at the time and you felt wiped out.  If you went back in the ring, the outcome would be the same and you would be knocked out quicker because your morale has already taken a hit.
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suz124w
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« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2013, 04:34:54 PM »

Bleeds Orange,

Yep.  I think we weren't victims.  We were casualties. 
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myself
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« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2013, 04:53:43 PM »

I say it a lot, but read about intermittent reinforcement and its effects. They are textbook. This does not place blame on them, it has nothing to do with blame, but it helped me know that all those weird ways I acted at the end, were normal to the environment I was in- and you too.

Think about your other relationships. Did you act like that? I didn't. The had a natural build up and break down and separation- no matter how nasty the separation was. The way you felt/do feel is normal. The things we need to look at are why we stayed in a relationship that made us feel that way and most of all, let go but not forget.

Worked through a lot of this in T. So much of what we went through was situational, not 'issues'. It's are you going to stay there once you find that's where you are, and how do you keep from going back in? Dealing with the wounds from last time, too, of course.

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Benevolent Sun
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« Reply #42 on: January 04, 2013, 05:05:01 PM »

Bleeds,

This was embarrassingly enough my first relationship, I just always did my own thing. I enjoyed my freedom when I was young, had fun with my friends and figured I'd meet the right girl at some point. This one felt like the right girl. And I think I'm to blame for my current state because I have nothing to compare to. So again, my inexperience might be hurting me, pre and post relationship. I should have taken the lumps that everyone else has when I was younger. I thought she was happy and honored that I had been waiting to meet someone and settle down. Who knows, she may have been licking her chops for a different reason. My buddy said, she knew that you were new to this stuff, and took full advantage of that.

Suz,

I agree it was exhausting, dealing with double standards, not being trusted, it just wears you out. Then being told I'm defensive just hurts even more. I can't get that out of my mind, I read other peoples posts that say their ex was defensive about things, and I sit here saying oh man that's what she told me. I just don't know how you can defend yourself from attacks and false accusations without being defensive. Maybe that's something that I have to work on.
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Benevolent Sun
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« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2013, 05:10:55 PM »

Just one more thing, writing these posts has reminded me about a conversation we had about her resenting me playing sports. It basically revolves around my loss of confidence. She told me she was jealous of my sports, and I told her playing sports was the only time i was confident in myself anymore. I asked why she would want to take that away from me. She had no answer, no response, no hey why aren't you confident with me anymore? Can I help?  Now I go in circles and say to myself f it, I should have given sports up, I dont enjoy them as much now anyway. I still let her take some of that joy away, and that is absolutely a me issue. I'm getting the joy back but man... .  Walking wounded for sure. That casualties line was perfect, we aren't victims just in pain
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karhues

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« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2013, 05:12:42 PM »

My ex BPD male wanted to move in a few months in the relationship and I said no repeatedly.  I had a history with him - he was my ex-huband - we were married for over 20 years and one day he did something so awful I left my home with nothing but the kids.   Two years after the divorce and after my mom died I took the money my mom left me a bought a nice little house for me and the kids and who comes back into our lives like a knight in shining armor - I was very hesitant at first but of course his charm worked as always.  I am so very glad I did not let him move in because 2 years into the new relationship he detached left just like that - I knew something was off and tried to discuss the issues - we never discuss anything - anything I had a problem with (which happened to be many inappropriate videos and photos as well as texts from many different women) he would say "I can't control what these women send me"  "of course I like the attention - what man wouldn't"  "I can't help what you think in your head"  This crap went on for months til one day he changed his phone password and never ever left his phone out.  One day he just disappeared for 2 weeks then texts me saying he misses me and wants to take me anywhere I'd like to go and that he loves me.  I texted back saying that I am really hurt and that I need time.  The whole time he was missing me and in a funk I found out he had been dating another women behind my back.  So now he is in love with this new one (who is older than him - that's new usually they are younger)  and I'm done - he said we have too much history and this is for the best.  

I am hurt beyond words can express but very happy I didn't let him move him - its bad enough I have 8 bags of clothes he left behind plus at least $5000 I let him borrow over the 2 years  and a lots of memories in my new home.  I just can't believe he did again - with absolutely no remorse - he's happy and that's all that matters.  

Additionally, my eldest who also is borderline and bipolar like her dad has been living with him for about 6 months because I couldn't take the awful behaviors - like she said she learned from the master.  Its odd because when we got back together he would help discipline her went she went off on me but as time passed it was just as it had been before the divorce - he would just sit there and not flinch when she went off I me - I asked for support and said what can I do?  I couldn't believe it - that's when a light went off in my head and I said holy ~ - its like a complete circle again.   I have rules and he has none so what teen wouldn't want to live with him.

To add insult to injury my daughter knew about several of the women he was seeing and didn't utter a word to me after knowing how hurt I'd  been my him in the past - she's the one who was so eager for us to get back together - but as time went on and he would discipline her acting horrid towards me - she started even acting worse til the friction was so bad - she knew exactly what she was doing - he stayed at my place a lot and kept saying - "dad just let me stay at your place I can't stand being at mom's.  So as time passed she got exactly what she wanted - dad is never home and she got her own place.  Plus on top of it this new women even gave her a job at her agency.  The therapist said she was a master manipulator as well as staff at her high school - I just never thought she would do it to me!

I guess they never change no matter how much you wish they would.  I guess its another hard lesson learned.
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happiness68
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« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2013, 05:18:39 PM »

Suz124w you're probably right.  I guess I just need more time.  It's only been just over 2 months.

happiness68,


Those are just your feelings of withdrawal and grief, you are torturing yourself with 'what ifs' because he has left a void in your life for the moment.  You can rest assured though that if he had moved in, things would've blown apart far more quickly and don't forget you may have had a job getting him out.  Either that or you would be feeling far more abandoned yourself right now.

I think your gut instinct was on auto protect and that was for the right reasons... .  

It's not easy but it will get better as you acclimatise yourself to life without your ex. Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

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suz124w
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« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2013, 05:22:31 PM »

Benevolent Sun,

You were thinking about giving sports up! You didn't.  That was the HEALTHY side of you talking, the side which told you that you enjoyed your sports and got something out of them, the same side that told you that in a healthy relationship, your partner would support you in your interests... .  

You think you were bad!  I woke up one morning and decided I was really worn out and should maybe think about changing my career as it was too demanding!  This is work I've done for 17 years, work I enjoy!  That set alarm bells ringing for me.  I knew something was far wrong.  Just as I knew when I looked at my last set of holiday pics he'd taken and saw how drained and exhausted I looked, saw the disappointment in my own eyes... .  that things were not as I wanted or expected in a healthy relationship.

It takes a while to get back on the road but whatever you do, don't confuse the fact that you miss some elements of the relationship with the misconception that any of it was healthy or worth building your future on.  The healthy part of you told you you had given all you could.  And that is that.
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happiness68
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« Reply #47 on: January 04, 2013, 05:25:45 PM »

Suz124w I agree.  I look at myself now and see a shadow of my former self.  I'm starting to get myself back on track.  I didn't think it would take so long after a 2 1/2 year relationship.  It's a big job but we have to do it for ourselves.  Our health must become our primary concern.

Benevolent Sun,

You were thinking about giving sports up! You didn't.  That was the HEALTHY side of you talking, the side which told you that you enjoyed your sports and got something out of them, the same side that told you that in a healthy relationship, your partner would support you in your interests... .  

You think you were bad!  I woke up one morning and decided I was really worn out and should maybe think about changing my career as it was too demanding!  This is work I've done for 17 years, work I enjoy!  That set alarm bells ringing for me.  I knew something was far wrong.  Just as I knew when I looked at my last set of holiday pics he'd taken and saw how drained and exhausted I looked, saw the disappointment in my own eyes... .  that things were not as I wanted or expected in a healthy relationship.

It takes a while to get back on the road but whatever you do, don't confuse the fact that you miss some elements of the relationship with the misconception that any of it was healthy or worth building your future on.  The healthy part of you told you you had given all you could.  And that is that.

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suz124w
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« Reply #48 on: January 04, 2013, 05:26:12 PM »

happiness68,

2 months is a relatively short time after a relationship like this.  I know it seems like a long time and it's an uphill struggle but as time goes by you will understand more about what has been going on and you will see the big picture.  At the moment you only have the corners and it's still a guessing game.

Keep going,you are doing well!
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happiness68
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« Reply #49 on: January 04, 2013, 05:29:02 PM »

Thanks Suz124w.  I'm trying.  I have less down waves over the last few days and less panic attacks that he's notnthere.  It's so very hard.  I guess it takes more time because of the intensity of the relationship.

happiness68,

2 months is a relatively short time after a relationship like this.  I know it seems like a long time and it's an uphill struggle but as time goes by you will understand more about what has been going on and you will see the big picture.  At the moment you only have the corners and it's still a guessing game.

Keep going,you are doing well!

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suz124w
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« Reply #50 on: January 04, 2013, 05:30:04 PM »

happiness68,

My relationship lasted 3 years and it has taken me a year to get this far.  There have been peaks and troughs and I still fluctuate.  Some of that is ironically due to my positive nature (!), I still want to see the best in situations/people especially where I have placed my trust.

I hope for you that your recovery will be shorter.  We all get there in our own time but I am sure of one thing. We all get there!
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happiness68
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« Reply #51 on: January 04, 2013, 05:32:16 PM »

Suz124w yes we will get there, I'm the same as you looking for the best in people.  Perhaps that's one of the things that attracted us to our BPD's.

happiness68,

My relationship lasted 3 years and it has taken me a year to get this far.  There have been peaks and troughs and I still fluctuate.  Some of that is ironically due to my positive nature (!), I still want to see the best in situations/people especially where I have placed my trust.

I hope for you that your recovery will be shorter.  We all get there in our own time but I am sure of one thing. We all get there!

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suz124w
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« Reply #52 on: January 04, 2013, 05:35:04 PM »

happiness68,

Yes, it is the intensity.

It was intensity dressed up as intimacy, remember that!

We are left with an attachment hangover unfortunately and we don't have the consolation of thinking the other party feels anything like we do.  This is really heartbreaking.  I read again and again that we shouldn't take this personally.  That is good advice but it is really so hard to apply when you are in an emotional state.  For me it was all truly heartbreaking.
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suz124w
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« Reply #53 on: January 04, 2013, 05:37:12 PM »

happiness68,

And it is not ALL naivety.  They are Trojan horses as far as relationships go.  They come into our lives like a gift but we soon learn it is a poison chalice.
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BleedsOrange
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« Reply #54 on: January 04, 2013, 06:07:24 PM »

BenSun,

You are kickin yourself around way too much. You can take responsibility for actions, but never feel guilt or take blame for how you FELT in these situations. Dont worry about not being as interested in stuff as much. I'm sure you associate a bunch of parts of your life that you loved in some way with her and shes gone- not a part of those things anymore. You are just mourning that loss. Totally normal.Its mentioned in a billion trillion posts by so many people- the loss of interest. That will pass. You loved these things before her and she did not define your enjoyment. Once she has faded, They will be back in full force, IN FACT as you enjoy them more and more (which you will) that enjoyment will push her ghost right outta there!

As far as your earlier relationships went. Who cares? Did ya have fun? I betcha did. If you werent ready for a big one, you shouldnt have looked for one- that doesnt turn out well. You keep blaming yourself. I used to too. Then the cycle just happened too many times, and I snapped. My brain screamed, THIS IS BULL~! Are there things I had to take responsibility for? Undoubtedly. Yet, in the scheme of things I did my damnedest with what I had at the time, what I was dealing with at the time and eventually what I had left in me at the time. You loved her. That is obvious. You did the best you could and you got beat up. It wasnt because you were ill prepared for a serious relationship, its cause this crap messes you up! I'm not placing blame i dont think it's helpful. i know it seems dizzying right now, but keep reading and keep trying to look at things objectively from a high altitude. Look at the environment you were in. Yes there are things everyone can change about themselves, but whats done is done-we cant change that, and we cant change them. This will be over soon enough. I say this a lot: there's a lot of fun out there- go have some. Again it was there before and it was fun. It is there now and it is just as fun. Go get some!<---------- not a euphemism, but hell, people will tell you not to bandaid this stuff up, but sometimes, to quote Jack Burton from Big Trouble in Little China: "What the hell... .  "

SUPER SMILEYFACE
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Benevolent Sun
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« Reply #55 on: January 04, 2013, 11:56:10 PM »

Bleeds, Suz

  You guys are both right on point, I kind of took us off course here, but appreciate the knowledge you dropped. I thought I was ready for the big one, and she talked like we were heading that way, on her own I wasn't saying these things first. Haha it was probably written all over me though. You I know I can get past this, I read the occasional success stories that people post here in order to provide hope.

  I forgave her, shoot I did that a long time ago, now I have to work on forgiving myself. That seems pretty far off at this point. I get those fleeting moments when I'm able to feel like everything will be ok, so they are there. A majority of the time I wonder if I was looking for something that doesn't exist. There was a lot of positive with that person, a lot of negative, but nobody is perfect. Even though she left I was kind of relieved for a bit. I didn't think the negative would get better if she gained more control over me through marriage and family. 

  It is interesting how you are mind is able to tell you, that its for the best after the break up. Only to let it flip the script. Which state of mind was correct, the one coming out of the rs or the one that has had too much time to reflect on said rs?

  This is your brain, this is your brain on too much reflection, any questions?
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BleedsOrange
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« Reply #56 on: January 05, 2013, 12:58:57 AM »

EXACTLY! I forgive her- Will never talk to her again (as far as where I am reight now and I suspect for a loong time, if ever). Hey thats cool, I love all my exes, in a way. For,the mind games she played, and yes, we played- 'cause a game has to have at least two players- was messed up, but if it's over, ITS OVER.

Time to to chalk it up to a well-meaning (kinda) craaaaaaaazy mentally unstable ex.

That is to be taken with a GIANT caveat.

It is not their fault. We are here because we kept volunteering for something that beat us into a state that brought us here. That is not blame. It is , for me, a way to see what I allowed, look at why I allowed it, what i was looking for REALLY and why I kept striving so hard for it, when it was obvious it was not coming from this place (that is only if it was love). Yet it wasn't by the end, was it? It was validation- that i was still worthy of her love, that was doted on me originally.

The point of the last paragraph, is that reflection is fine- even scrambled reflection. In fact, It's really healthy. Yet, don't do it in a way that tries to figure out who's fault it is, or why it failed. It just did. Look at the ways you betrayed yourself. Forgive yourself. You will receive no forgiveness from them. Even if they say it. Even if they actually mean it it wont come there.

You are dead on about the disconnect between the mind and the body. I t is a classic physiological and metaphysical problem. We cannot control the body because the mind controls the body. The body influences the mind and then can gain some control. i am not preaching, because i am just trying, but the only point  is that we can break that cycle is to control our minds. The only way we can do that is through mindfulness.

You are good. I am good They are whatever they are, good or bad. It is not our problem. It never should have been. Remember remember remember, dont beat yoursef up over this. It is done. Time for us to get outta there and be happy!

After that last, half-asleep, brain-vomit, I will quote two sages:

Rabbi Tuckman: [pauses] Wait a minute! There's things here! There's rocks, there's trees, there's birds, there's squirrels. Come on, we'll bless them all until we get vashnigyered

The Dhammapada:  Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox.

Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with a pure mind a person speaks or acts happiness follows him like his never-departing shadow.

"He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.

"He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.

Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.


Again, excuse my mind-vomit. i feel really good about his today. We don't want to forget, but we do want to let go, yes? Hopefully there was something to be taken from this expelling of what i feel right now.

HIJACK POWERRRRRS ACTIVVVVVATE!


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happiness68
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« Reply #57 on: January 05, 2013, 04:15:10 AM »

Intensity dressed up as intimacy Suz124w.  How very true.  For me, it was and still is heartbreaking.  It's the shock of it all too.  Plus we then realise they have BPD.  I kind of wonder how I didn't recognise it sooner.  The signs were there from early on really.  I'd say within two months.  In fact, that intense intimacy was there from the start.  I've always told people how it was like he was in awe of me.  Yes, it's like a hangover, a bad one. 

happiness68,

Yes, it is the intensity.

It was intensity dressed up as intimacy, remember that!

We are left with an attachment hangover unfortunately and we don't have the consolation of thinking the other party feels anything like we do.  This is really heartbreaking.  I read again and again that we shouldn't take this personally.  That is good advice but it is really so hard to apply when you are in an emotional state.  For me it was all truly heartbreaking.

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happiness68
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« Reply #58 on: January 05, 2013, 04:16:35 AM »

One thing I question now is how if I'd seen the signs earlier, could I have helped him.  I know I shouldnt be worrying about him now, but I can't just stop loving.  I want to but it's not that easy.

happiness68,

And it is not ALL naivety.  They are Trojan horses as far as relationships go.  They come into our lives like a gift but we soon learn it is a poison chalice.

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suz124w
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« Reply #59 on: January 05, 2013, 05:11:35 AM »

happiness68,

I asked myself that self-same question!  I wondered once I learned about BPD if I could have managed the situation better/helped him by acting in a different way, a way that would be supportive TO HIM.  I had a very good therapist who held up a mirror to my behaviour and showed me my pattern of taking responsibility for other people.  It really IS up to the other person to take some responsibility for their behaviours/mental health especially when it is impinging on their partner!  I know now that those with BPD are not able to do this but this still does not mean that we should shoulder more responsibility and try to do their share as well as our own!

At the end of my relationship I actually voiced this regret to my exuBPD partner and he basically said it wouldn't have helped.  He was quite fatalistic about saying it wouldn't work out ... .  and I was pretty cut up about that and took it as a rejection of me personally.  Like your ex with you, he had previously been enamoured by me and had given me a lot of validation and I became kind of used to that, so the pulling away and cutting off came as a complete shock.  I think now that my ex was ALL TOO AWARE of the effect of his behaviours on me because it was in effect ABUSIVE. He may have mental health issues but he has eyes in his head and he can still feel!  I think I was one in a line of partners he had to leave behind because HE couldn't deal with HIS OWN behaviours!  Ok, he was an emotional coward in that he shifted the blame onto me most of the time but that was just camouflage because he can't live with the reality OF HIMSELF.

The reality of the situation is that their are two sides to the BPD relationship.  There is the SHOCK and the AWE.  You can't have one without the other... .  'aye, there's the rub!'

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