Does Fear spark dysregulation

[griz]

Hi All:

DD needs a small surgical procedure which is scheduled for next week. She is getting an IUD but also having a small cyst removed at the same time.  When she went to the doctor and we scheduled it she was fine.  About a week  ago she told me that she doesn't want to have the surgury because she has been looking on the internet and she has found that they really don't know who anesthsia works.  I looked it up on line also and oddly enough what she said was true, however I assured her that she would be fine and that they do this all the time... .  bla bla bla.

She has been having a really good week and then last night, early evening I reminded her that her presurgical testing was today.  I could see by the look on her face she was a little panicky.  I told her what they would do today and as the night progresses I saw her depression starting to set in.  This morning I left for work as my dh is taking her for the testing and I called to say hi to her before she left and she was really in a bad way.  Crying and saying that I should call the Dr. and cancell the surgery.  I could cancel for her as the only reason they are removing the cyst is because she will already be under anesthsia for the IUD. 

I told her I knew that this was scary for anyone and tried to reassure her but she just got angry at me and kept repeating I am not doing this.  I told her I would call the Dr. to discuss it with him.  Today I have a half day at work so I texted her asking her if she would like to go to the gym with me and then maybe to lunch and I got back at text saying "NO!".

I am sorry I am being so long winded here, I guess my questions really is can fear spark dysregualtion.  Has anyone seen this before.  any suggestions on how to handle this.

Griz

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Being Mindful]

Hi griz, I am sure that it can. I've seen all different kinds of things trigger my d. Sometimes even happy events can trigger her.

[lbjnltx]

Absolutely!

Fear=stress=dysregulation.  Our fears are sometimes not reasonable... .  sometimes they are.  In this case her fears are reasonable... .  using logic to temper our fears and  do  what needs to be done is something we do.  For a pwBPD it requires the ability to achieve wisemind.  Can she do this?  If not... .  what are the other solutions?  In my d's case, talking with the dr or anesthesiologist may help... .  they are not emotionally attached to her or vice versa and she would listen to them without so much emotion involved.

If she  will go to the preop apptmt that may help her make a decision based on facts and not feelings... .  hope she does.

 

lbj

[cfh]

Yes absolutely.  It happens to my ds all the time.

Is your ds worried that the anesthesia will not "take"?  This just happened to me when I recently had a colonoscopy.  For whatever reason the anesthesia never kicked in and I was awake throughout the procedure.  Don't ask!

I don't remember if your ds has any history of substance abuse but if she does the anesthesiologist needs to know because that would affect what they gave her and how much.  There are lots of different drugs that they can give depending on the circumstances.

[twojaybirds]

It sure can - along with many other things as well. 

How old is your dd?  If she is 18 or over she can refuse the surgery as an adult; these are now her decisions.

Is the surgery really life necessary or might there be other choices not yet discussed.

Can your dd research the pros and cons of the surgery and come up with her own answer.

The more power you give her perhaps the less empowered she will fell by her fears.

Good luck.  My dd has undergone 7 surgeries and i know how you are feeling now.  Know this too will pass!

[griz]

Part II -

So I get home from work and DD is up in her room looking really upset.  She asks me if I have spoken to the doctor yet and I tell her that he hasn't called yet.  I start asking her what is making her so nervous... .  is it just the anesthesia or is there more to it?  She just keeps repeating that she doesn't want the surgery and not giving me any answers.  Before I know if she is yelling for me to get the f... .  k out of her room.  I stand my ground and tell her I will not be spoken to that way and she just says it again and adds I don't want to talk about it, I don't want you in here so leave.  I walked out of her room and said fine, I am going to the gym.  While I am changing my clothes she comes storming out of her room crying hysterically and yells I am going out.  I ask her where she is going and she responds with I DON'T KNOW and walks about.  At this point I start to get worried and I call my dh who assures me that he doesn't think I need to worry and I should just go to the gym.  So off I go and half way there I realize that I am working myself into a frenzy and the gym would be pointless.  So I turn around and go home.  When I get there DD is still not back so I keep myself busy (although i continually glance out the window).  I decide to give the dog a bath to keep me busy and in walks DD looking much calmer.  I asked her where she went and she said she just took a walk up to the deli and got a water bottle (the Deli is about a mile away).  Again she asks me if the doctor called. She is calmer but I can see she is still dysregulated.  So I said to her, no he has not called and it doesn't matter when he calls.  If you have decided that you don't want an IUD (she tells me her and BF do not have sex so why should she get it) then that is a decision you make about your body.  That is not the doctors decision.  You surgery is scheduled for Wed.  I have left him a message explaining why I am calling.  It is his responsiblity to call me back.  If we decide that you are not going to have the procedure done then I guess he will find out when he calls. 

TOTAL CHANGE OF MOOD HERE.  DD then starts playing with the dog and says to me, I thought you were going to the gym. Why don't you go now.  I ask her if she wants to come and she says no thank you (please don't miss that part , NO THANK YOU).  So off I go to the gym and take care of myself.  DH calls to see how things are going and I tell him that all has settled down.  He also tells me, BTW I forgot to tell you that when we went for the pre op the nurse started asking DD is she had ever had surgery before and she says yes and starts to cry.  I had totally put out of my mind that about a year and a half ago DD and her BF had sex for the first time.  She told me two days later and was very upset. She was hysterical about this and asked me to take her to the store to get Plan B, which I did, and told her that I was glad she told me. Of course as usual for our lives a few weeks later DD misses her period and yes you guessed it, she is pregnant.  We don't make a big deal out of it and tell her these things happen and we will help her get through it.  We supported her all the way and she had a termination 3 weeks later.

That was a year and a half ago.  She has never told anyone about this other than dh, me and of course her bf.  DH tells me that when she starts to cry he puts his arm around her to comfort her and she recoils from him, which of course he takes personally so they do not speak to each other the rest of the time there or on the way home.

So now I am thinking that this might in fact be twofold.  Part anesthesia and part some pretty terrible memories.  So I apologize in advance for going on and on, but I guess I am not sure where to go with this.  She seems happy now that she knows we are going to cancel the surgery but I need some advice on if I should just leave it at that or I should try to talk to her about it.  She obviously still has some feelings about the termination and she has never spoken about it.  Even when she was in therapy she did not talk about it.  She doesn't talk... .  

I would appreciate any suggestions that you have for me.  Maybe some advice on if I should bring it up and if I do what I should say.

Griz

[cfh]

griz,

I can't think of any great advice but I do want to say that when I read how supportive you and dh were when dd told you she was pregnant it brought me back to how I felt as a teen.

I cannot imagine ever feeling like I could go to my parents and tell them I was pregnant.  My parents were very loving but telling them I was pregnant... .  no way.

My gut is telling me that this is a door you should try to keep open.  I know many women who have had abortions and none of them took it lightly. Your dd may be struggling with some feelings about it.

Is the surgery medically necessary?

Others are going to have to jump in and help you with what to say.

My ds did something really horrific by accident.  I know he walks around every day living with it but can't talk about it.  The only times he's every brought it up is when he was so high on drugs and having a total meltdown.  It was a tragic accident but it happened so it's real.

Then it's back to silence.  He needs help living with what he did.

So back to my original thought... .  I would try to keep the door open.

I wish I could be more help with what words to use.

[Esperança_Hope]

Griz, dear

I´m sorry you in such a pain and worried.

Cfh is amazing remembering us about the conflicting fears women have on abortion. It´s not easy unless all the  culture and media  shows it´s "normal", not a big deal.

The other point is anesthesia. It´s like your DD need to me sure she will be definitely well anesthesiated. Twofold: body and mind no pain in the moment of the surgery. I would never allowd such a pain. No way without anesthesia. She doesn´t have to feel pain.

She needs to be safe on that.

Missing you, the bookstore. I´ve been there yesterday and let  there a bottle of cachaça, pão de queijo e rapadura)

I loved  when your DD changed the mood  seeing you, noticing you came back to her.  

[lbjnltx]

Missing you, the bookstore. I´ve been there yesterday and let  there a bottle of cachaça, pão de queijo e rapadura)

Rum, cheese, bread and brown sugar... .  ?  sounds yummy

[Esperança_Hope]

 , Ibjn... .  you know brasilian culture

[qcarolr]

Griz -

I have gone with my DD 3 times to terminate a pregnancy. This was her choice each time - age 17, 20, 21. She chose to deliver 2 babies. After the second child (age 21) she made the appt. for the copper IUD (hormones did not work and gave her migraines). When she went in, she was pregnant again with a 4 month old baby at home. There was only local anethisia in all these procedures for her on the discount plan. That is the physical part.

She does not talk about these lost children. I do not know how she thinks of them. My guess is there is much pain from many directions. She stuffs it. She was recently talking of getting the IUD removed - some story of it 'not feeling right'. Then we had this conversation that morphed into talking about the genetics of conception - what comes from the mom and how those millions of little sperm are fighting to be "the one". Then she answered - well maybe "M" is not the best choice for the dad. WHEW   

DD has had anethesia for her wisdom teeth (age 14), to remove a mole on her lip (age16) and for gallbladder (age19). They had to use extra to get her under as she was unconsciously fighting it. Took her longer to wake up. She does not like to let go of control with anesthisia.  Could this be another factor with your D, Griz? Or fear of not waking up?

It is a good thing to give the responsibility for this choice to your D. She can choose to do it later, when she is ready. The IUD can be done with local anesthesia - uncomfortable but is done this way often.

qcr  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders