Male vs female nons and social expectations

[Depression = 72% of members]

I've been thinking lately about possible difference being in a relationship with a male pwBPD and a female pwBPD and our social and cultural expectations for men and women. Of course every relationship is different, but there are some common gender-specific behaviours or roles that we more or less look to or expect in our relationships.

Being Scandinavian, I'm used to equality when it comes to housework, I know how to change the tyres of my car and my ex-husband would do laundry just as much as I would etc. However, I still need my man to be my protector in the sense that I would like him to comfort me when I need it, give me strong "bear-hugs", let me sleep with my head on his chest etc. My dBPDbf is very seldom able to give me those thing and honestly I miss it.

And so I've been pondering if it's different for a non-woman compared to a non-man, seeing as we are somewhat conditioned to see men as strong and stable "protectors" which a pwBPD usually isn't capable of being. How do you feel about this things in your relationships? For you male nons out there, is this something you've thought about?

[Scarlet Phoenix]

I've been thinking lately about possible difference being in a relationship with a male pwBPD and a female pwBPD and our social and cultural expectations for men and women. Of course every relationship is different, but there are some common gender-specific behaviours or roles that we more or less look to or expect in our relationships.

Being Scandinavian, I'm used to equality when it comes to housework, I know how to change the tyres of my car and my ex-husband would do laundry just as much as I would etc. However, I still need my man to be my protector in the sense that I would like him to comfort me when I need it, give me strong "bear-hugs", let me sleep with my head on his chest etc. My dBPDbf is very seldom able to give me those thing and honestly I miss it.

And so I've been pondering if it's different for a non-woman compared to a non-man, seeing as we are somewhat conditioned to see men as strong and stable "protectors" which a pwBPD usually isn't capable of being. How do you feel about this things in your relationships? For you male nons out there, is this something you've thought about?

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[downandin]

This is a really good topic, and I am surprised it hasn't gotten more replies.

You say "I still need my man to be my protector in the sense that I would like him to comfort me when I need it, give me strong "bear-hugs", let me sleep with my head on his chest etc. My dBPDbf is very seldom able to give me those thing and honestly I miss it."  Well, as a man who is married to a pwBPD, I can relate on two levels.

First, my wife really wants to be in charge of everything.  This basically means that she, almost to a fault, would never want or allow me to be this kind of "protector."  Since this is the case, she really seems to try to emasculate me, emotionally speaking.  I think that she sees 'needing' me to be a man as a sign of weakness.  Still, she complains all the time that I am not like a real man, I am too emotional, I don't lead the family.  Another of those catch 22 things I live with all the time.

Secondly, just as you say you miss a strong man, I often find myself missing having a wife who can be both a nurturing (motherly) presence in our family as well as allowing herself to ever be emotionally vulnerable.  Sometimes I do need a woman to give me the kind of care that you think of when you think of a mother, like when I am sick and just need her to comfort me.  Other times, though, I also need my wife to want me to be the man in the relationship, to allow herself to actually show vulnerability.  Each of these 'feminine' roles seems to be completely off limits to me in our relationship.  I think from her perspective, again, being a nurturer or emotionally open and vulnerable are both signs of weakness... .    At least that is the way I see it.

I would love to hear others' takes on this subject.   

[Wrongturn1]

This is an interesting topic and one I have been thinking about lately.  My uBPDw has established herself as the boss in our household over the years, primarily because she has the urge to be in complete control of everything…from the way we pack the car on a trip, to the way our kids dress, to foods I choose to eat for lunch (not talking about anything unhealthy here either…I’m in peak physical condition and keep myself on a precise eating plan, but just this morning she was critiquing the mix of foods I was bringing with me to work), etc.  And if things do not go according to her wishes/schedule, she often gets very irritated; therefore, in an attempt to avoid blame and conflict, I gradually started deferring to her to make almost every decision (I was walking on eggshells for a long time for sure).

Now that I understand the disorder, however, I am rethinking this approach because I understand that I am likely to face blame and conflict no matter what I do.  I might as well take steps to establish myself as a primary decision-maker and leader in our family so that some logic and rationality is injected in our decision making process.  So I will be looking for opportunities to use the tools and take a more active/leadership role in our family decision processes – this might prove difficult as I have been passive for a relatively long time.  Would be glad to hear other people’s thoughts on this.

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Hi Wrongturn1 and Downandin. It was really interesting reading your comments and getting some insight into the BPW from a male perspective.

... .  I often find myself missing having a wife who can be both a nurturing (motherly) presence in our family as well as allowing herself to ever be emotionally vulnerable.

I can certainly understand that. It must be frustrating to feel you are in a Catch-22 situation, as you say. It's  disheartening to feel that your needs just aren't being met.

Interestingly enough it really annoys my dBPDbf when I show too much of my nurturing and vulnerable side.

I was walking on eggshells for a long time for sure.

I'm glad you said was walking on eggshells. This means you're seeing the behaviour and are open to changing it. Good for you  

So I will be looking for opportunities to use the tools and take a more active/leadership role in our family decision processes – this might prove difficult as I have been passive for a relatively long time.

That sounds good! Using the tools and being the person you want to be in the relationship. I would love an update later.

I guess the question is: what do we do?

I try to work on my co-dependent tendencies in general and being mindful of how I feel and what's causing me to feel that way. It's a question of radical acceptance when it comes down to it, isn't it. I would love my bf to be more of a protector. He isn't able to. Radical acceptance. It's not ideal, but it sure beats banging my head against the wall trying to get him to be more this or that and wanting and waiting and getting disappointed and sad. My approach will have to be different than yours I think, as I would like my dBPDbf to take a very different role than what you would like with your female partners.

I would love to hear others take on this as well  

[Peace4ME]

This is an interesting thread-

First off, I am a very independent, strong, educated and opinionated woman. This has been appreciated, respected and gotten me called controlling  . I just have to make sure I keep that balance. However, that doesn't mean that I don't want a man that can take control of his life and sometimes our life and get me to a point where I can reliquish that control and trust him. I have had a relationship much closer to that before. This one is not.

I too, often feel like I want a strong man to hold me and be my rock. DBT seems to be helping a bit, but he is only just starting. Yesterday I had a really bad day, due to a decision he made, and not only was he able to accept my disappointment in him but he was able to offer me consolation, even though he was the one that hurt me. Impossible before. Still, that is 1/50. For every situation I need consoling or couseling on, he has about 50.

There is a fine line between loving your partner and being there for them and starting to feel like their therapist. 

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Hi Peace4ME, I know how you feel 

That's great that he's in therapy and that you see progress  Slow progress perhaps, but still!

There is a fine line between loving your partner and being there for them and starting to feel like their therapist.

Yeah, I know the feeling

[waverider]

I think pwBPD (w/NPD traits) often completely fly against the normal role models, mainly because they simply just dont conform to norms.

Once neediness and corresponding enabling comes into play it can quickly turn everything upside down.

Then you have the lack of consistency that comes into play

[red pill]

I think my wife's problems would have become apparent far earlier if she were a man. She held a job once for eight weeks before accusing the boss of sexual harassment. (Could have been true I guess. So could the countless other criminal allegations made by her family against countless others. The eventual allegations she made against me were not true.  )

He own business from home failed due to not liking it. She wanted to be a full time mother (even before she decided to get pregnant) - but with me making all the decisions and guessing what she wanted and risking 'getting in trouble' for it.

Nope. Our relationship would not have survived if she were a man. (or if I were an emotionally secure man... ) Very different social expectations on men in this society.