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Author Topic: Invalidation?  (Read 649 times)
thefisherman
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« on: January 08, 2013, 02:19:51 PM »

A very common theme in my relationship with my BPDso is defensiveness, invalidation, combativeness (me doing that to her).

She is perceptive and at the same time very affected by it and at the same time... .  she pushes me to invalidate her, to defend myself, to ultimately be verbally combative.

So say I STOP invalidating her.  What am I SUPPOSED to say to things like the following:

"all you do is push my face down in [fecal matter expletive]"

"what i want doesn't matter"

"you don't want to make things better"

"you're a liar and you're lying"

"you don't want a marriage, you want a servant"

"you don't want a marriage, you want the convenience of being married"

"all you do is make me feel like [fecal matter expletive]"

"i am feeling physically threatened by you.  Please leave" when I have never been physical with her and have taken physical attacks from her. 

"you aren't a father, you're a sperm donor"

"you don't deserve your children"

"you never do anything to make things better"

"you are just like your father"

Just some examples.  I know I need help communicating better.  it is hard to take and even more difficult to respond to with empathy.
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Seahorse1
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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2013, 02:38:07 PM »

I hope some one can give some good advice . I need it too... .  The same questions, the same comments, over and over for a year... .  

There are certain " themes" I have been able to set boundaries around and that sometimes it works... .  Some times it doesn't... .  

If you can pick a few  things and when your wife is calm tell her that things things upset you greatly and if she continues to say these things you will answer... .  Just keep having to set boundaries and reinforce them... .  

Because the validation is not going to work on everything, especially insults!
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Seahorse1
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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2013, 02:38:51 PM »

I meant you will not answer
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crazymade
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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2013, 02:49:54 PM »

Most of the time, when my BPD SO husband says things like this in anger, I ignore it. He is raging at me and doesn't really mean it, or else he wouldn't be with me. it's kind of like the book i heard about "i hate you, don't leave me". I haven't read it yet, but that's how i feel when he acts like this. if he really wanted me to leave, he wouldn't put up obstacles to me doing so, now would he?

Sometimes when i ignore statements like this, it makes him angrier and he accuses me of just wanting what he is saying to blow over, and he's right. What he is saying is mean, and i won't defend myself against outright lies. When you do, in their mind, it lends truth to what they are saying.

hope this helps. 
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CodependentHusband
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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2013, 04:04:23 PM »

Ignoring it is good advice; however, I think it is hard to do, especially at first. For a more active approach, I suggest telling the pwBPD that you would rather talk when things are calmer and go to another room for a while. If they follow you to the next room, tell them that you care about them, but that you will be leaving the house for a couple of hours and that you care about them and will definitely return soon, but you feel uncomfortable with the conversation right now.

It takes practice, but with consistency, you will start to see a change in them. They won't stop this behavior 100%, but it will become less frequent. Also, you will eventually get to a point where walking in the next room will be effective and you won't leave the house. At least that was the case for me.
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thefisherman
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2013, 08:42:04 PM »

So i ignore it and now she sees my behavior as withdrawing.  She is offended by that.  She WANTS a conversation of some sort. 

She has never not followed me into another room.

I leave the house for some period of time... .  i come back to clothes on the lawn or ripped up marriage certificate (ok... .  the certificate thing only happened once). 

So... .  Is there a 'right' response to any of the statements in the original post in this thread?

How about "I want you to leave"?  (that is... .  what is a 'right' response to that?)

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CodependentHusband
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2013, 09:04:06 PM »

So i ignore it and now she sees my behavior as withdrawing.  She is offended by that.  She WANTS a conversation of some sort.  

She has never not followed me into another room.

Yes... .  When we start to change, it really throws them for a loop for a while... .  it truly does confuse them, because when we start responding in a different way, they don't know exactly what that means. Especially when our new behavior shows that we have more independence from them than they are used to seeing us exhibit. We calmly reassure them by saying things like, "I love you, but I can't be a part of a conversation this intense right now." Nothing we can say to them will reassure them enough to calm them down though, so, we say it once, in a caring way, and we follow through with what we said we would do... .  we disengage without resentment, and we walk into another room... .  If that is far enough that you get a meaningful time-out, then great! Don't leave the house if you don't have to! It's not all about the pwBPD though either... .  For me, I found that by the point a rage started, I was having a hard time myself fighting the urge to continue discussing things with my wife... .  I wanted to calm her down... .  Fact is, when her emotions are THAT high, there really is NOTHING I can say to calm her down. After we consistently disengage, the pwBPD adjusts to this new norm, and, surprisingly, they tend to act out less frequently.


I leave the house for some period of time... .  i come back to clothes on the lawn or ripped up marriage certificate (ok... .  the certificate thing only happened once).  

Your instinct about how her behavior will escalate is well-founded. I'm not going to mislead you; however, after her extinction burst (her final rage/dysregulation), things will improve. It takes a lot of courage to disengage consistently, but after the non does it, positive changes start to occur after the extinction burst. Consistency, consistency. Protect your boundaries, because if you don't nobody else will.



So... .  Is there a 'right' response to any of the statements in the original post in this thread?

How about "I want you to leave"?  (that is... .  what is a 'right' response to that?)

By 'right,' I think you mean, is there some response in that particular moment in time that is going to defuse the situation. If that is what you mean by, 'right,' and she has BPD, I think you will find that there is no, 'right' answer. People with BPD live literally 'in the moment,' and feel so intensely that they cannot be comforted when they feel dysregulated to that extent. We can try to validate their negative feelings. We can tell them that we care about them and that we are there for them if they need us, but when emotions get that high, we have to remind ourselves that this disorder is cyclical in nature. Don't invalidate the pwBPD by telling them, 'yeah... .  you want me to leave right now, but next week you'll think I'm the greatest.' Just keep communication short and positive. So, the 'right' answer for the long term is often to simply disengage and do what we can to keep things from getting worse. This is going to do less damage to the relationship, and it's going to hopefully help the period of dysregulation to pass.

Hope this helps... .  I know this is hard. It hurts like hell for a while... .  I know it does. You're not alone. I'm sorry you are having to go through this too.
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