Is this a good plan?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

We are trying to figure out how to deal with the most recent false accusations from DSD15.  Last week, DSD supposedly claimed that I said something I did not say or even remotely say. Then BPD mom blocked dh's visitation based on my ruining DSD's self esteem.  I am not sure how much of the problem is DSD's perception, DSD's lying, BPD mom's twisting, or what.  I have come to the point that I don't have any deep conversations with DSD at all, and I don't have any conversations with her without witnesses.  I also document every conversation right after I have it.  It's ridiculous.

Anyway, this DSD usually comes for dinner once a week.  I was thinking about this time taking my girls somewhere and letting DSD and DH just have dinner.  This would be for two reasons:  (1) I don't think DSD needs to feel like we are all ganging up on her; and (2) I am just feeling done with her right now--it feels like she crossed a line (then part of me wonders if it was mostly her mom?  Who knows?)  

Do you think DH should just show her the documentation of our conversation and then ask what she heard?  Any other ideas for topics of conversation?

[sanemom]

We are trying to figure out how to deal with the most recent false accusations from DSD15.  Last week, DSD supposedly claimed that I said something I did not say or even remotely say. Then BPD mom blocked dh's visitation based on my ruining DSD's self esteem.  I am not sure how much of the problem is DSD's perception, DSD's lying, BPD mom's twisting, or what.  I have come to the point that I don't have any deep conversations with DSD at all, and I don't have any conversations with her without witnesses.  I also document every conversation right after I have it.  It's ridiculous.

Anyway, this DSD usually comes for dinner once a week.  I was thinking about this time taking my girls somewhere and letting DSD and DH just have dinner.  This would be for two reasons:  (1) I don't think DSD needs to feel like we are all ganging up on her; and (2) I am just feeling done with her right now--it feels like she crossed a line (then part of me wonders if it was mostly her mom?  Who knows?)  

Do you think DH should just show her the documentation of our conversation and then ask what she heard?  Any other ideas for topics of conversation?

[DreamGirl]

We are trying to figure out how to deal with the most recent false accusations from DSD15.  Last week, DSD supposedly claimed that I said something I did not say or even remotely say. Then BPD mom blocked dh's visitation based on my ruining DSD's self esteem.  I am not sure how much of the problem is DSD's perception, DSD's lying, BPD mom's twisting, or what.  I have come to the point that I don't have any deep conversations with DSD at all, and I don't have any conversations with her without witnesses.  I also document every conversation right after I have it.  It's ridiculous.

Anyway, this DSD usually comes for dinner once a week.  I was thinking about this time taking my girls somewhere and letting DSD and DH just have dinner.  This would be for two reasons:  (1) I don't think DSD needs to feel like we are all ganging up on her; and (2) I am just feeling done with her right now--it feels like she crossed a line (then part of me wonders if it was mostly her mom?  Who knows?)  

Do you think DH should just show her the documentation of our conversation and then ask what she heard?  Any other ideas for topics of conversation?

I think just DH and his daughter going to dinner is a good idea.

I think asking her what her perception is good.

I think your DH's perception of what was said and why he didn't think she was upset is enough - he was there afterall.  If she was upset - she's allowed to be upset.  Dad can clear up the misunderstanding if he needs to.

Showing her documentation is kinda weird - in my opinion - and it seems like you're trying to prove your point.


It's OK for you and her to take a break. I think you all could use it (you, your DD, her, and mom's ghost at the table).

[sanemom]

We are trying to figure out how to deal with the most recent false accusations from DSD15.  Last week, DSD supposedly claimed that I said something I did not say or even remotely say. Then BPD mom blocked dh's visitation based on my ruining DSD's self esteem.  I am not sure how much of the problem is DSD's perception, DSD's lying, BPD mom's twisting, or what.  I have come to the point that I don't have any deep conversations with DSD at all, and I don't have any conversations with her without witnesses.  I also document every conversation right after I have it.  It's ridiculous.

Anyway, this DSD usually comes for dinner once a week.  I was thinking about this time taking my girls somewhere and letting DSD and DH just have dinner.  This would be for two reasons:  (1) I don't think DSD needs to feel like we are all ganging up on her; and (2) I am just feeling done with her right now--it feels like she crossed a line (then part of me wonders if it was mostly her mom?  Who knows?)  

Do you think DH should just show her the documentation of our conversation and then ask what she heard?  Any other ideas for topics of conversation?

I think just DH and his daughter going to dinner is a good idea.

I think asking her what her perception is good.

I think your DH's perception of what was said and why he didn't think she was upset is enough - he was there afterall.  If she was upset - she's allowed to be upset.  Dad can clear up the misunderstanding if he needs to.

Showing her documentation is kinda weird - in my opinion - and it seems like you're trying to prove your point.


It's OK for you and her to take a break. I think you all could use it (you, your DD, her, and mom's ghost at the table).

Yeah... .  I was just thinking the documentation in case DH was not remembering, but we have had to go over it to send to attorney, etc. so he probably will remember it anyway.

What about telling her that next time she is upset, she needs to talk with us about it?  It's funny because her mom didn't want to have a conversation with DH, DSD, and BB together about the incident because that would be "putting DSD in the middle" in her mind when really, from what BB said (may or may not be true), DSD put her mom in the middle (I am sure, however, her mom just stood up to that middle!).

[sanemom]

DSD15 ate with DH and cleared the air... .  apparently she wasn't even upset by what I said (dh had to remind her of that part). She admitted to venting to her mom, but she was just overall upset about feeling badly about her grades, etc. She felt worse only because she thought I did well on my SAT (that was apparently the comment that her mom latched onto that made her feel bad--that I got scholarships based on my SAT). We let her know what her mom told us, and we let her know that her mom told the GAL and would not let her come here. She had no idea. So it sounds like the drama was all manufactured by her mom. She told us that she knew it was her mom's call that she didn't come over, and we let her know that her mom was not supposed to be making that call. She was very apologetic that it caused this much trouble--she had wanted to come last weekend. I bet BPD mom gets pissed that we talked with her about it.

It makes me feel better that DSD didn't twist it, but BPD mom did.  I was getting worried that DSD was becoming more and more like BPD mom (she had done some lying a few months ago and apologized so I was assuming it was starting again).  She kept apologizing to me, and I told her not to worry about it.  Maybe she is starting to get how crazy her mom makes things.

[DreamGirl]

Poor thing.

[Rose1]

Another reason to contemplate Matt's solution of turning up and saying "OK - time for court ordered visit"

[Matt]

Another reason to contemplate Matt's solution of turning up and saying "OK - time for court ordered visit"

Yes.

Or maybe have a talk with DSD, to make sure she knows the schedule, and to let her know that you will be there at the right time to pick her up, and she should be packed and ready, and should come out.  You can call her when you're on the way to make sure she knows you'll be there on time.  Pickups don't need to involve Mom, and at 15, your stepdaughter is capable of packing her stuff and coming out of the house, unless her mom physically restrains her.

Work it out with SD15, and then follow through, and leave her mom out of the loop.

[Matt]

Does SD15 have her own phone?

[tog]

This happens with SS13 all.the.time. Or at least it DID. What changed is that they have a co-parent counselor who told them that neither of them was to entertain any of SS13's complaints about the other parent. They were to each tell him to talk to the parent he had a problem with, or if it was a SERIOUS problem, to call her and she would sit down with him and that parent.

Needless to say, this is easier for us to do than for stbxw. She has long been seeking negative information about my SO and then sending it back to him in critical and hostile emails. She still does it, on a lesser scale now since the counselor got involved, but still does it because I think to some degree she believes she is protecting SS from his evil father in this manner.

When this happens, SO goes to get SS as scheduled and then says, "Your mom said you were upset about X? Are you?" Usually SS would be honest and we would talk about it. He's admitted to telling her what she wants to hear because he "feels sorry for her". I think this has helped us a lot in combating the alienation, which he seems to be coming out of.

[sanemom]

Does SD15 have her own phone?

Yes... .  we will use this method next time (of just letting her know we are coming to get her--the problem last weekend was that her mom was supposed to bring her because we were at her brother's game).  This last time she did not respond to our texts when we were trying to figure out what was going on... .  now we know it was because she really didn't know.

I was hoping the attorney would get back to us about our demand for immediate counseling (he was supposed to be sending that to the GAL and to her lover/attorney this past Monday).  We will talk with him then about every step we should take next time she pulls this--it looks like it was all about control and getting back at DH for refusing to call BPD mom when she wanted him to--she decided to punish him then by withholding DSD from us.

[Matt]

I've told this story before, so my apologies if I'm repeating myself, but it's how I learned a big lesson which seems very relevant to your situation... .  

When we separated, my daughter was 10.  I took her to gymnastics every Thursday - took off work early, picked her up at 5:30 to get her there by 6:00.

This worked fine for a few weeks.  Then I showed up at 5:30 and she hadn't been fed.  So I had to take her to my place, give her a sandwich, and wait patiently while she ate.  She was late to gymnastics.

After that, I told D10 I would pick her up at 5:15 and feed her, so we could be on time.  That worked pretty well for a few weeks... .  

... .  and then I got there at 5:15, and her gym clothes were wet, in the dryer.  She had to find some other clothes and she was embarrassed about them.  So I told her to always bring her gym clothes to my house over the weekend and we would wash and dry them there.  Then she should put them in her dresser at Mom's house.

Basically what was happening was that her mom was finding any passive-aggressive way to make things difficult that she could find.  Our path forward was for D10 and me to work together to solve these problems - take control and not leave things to her mom.

Since then - she's now 16 - this has played out in other ways, and we've always solved each problem the same way - D16 and I figure it out and solve it without involving her mom.

At 15, I'm sure your daughter is capable of seeing that it's time to go, and calling you to confirm that you're on the way, and then walking out the front door of the house and getting into your car.  There is no reason for her mom to be involved.

[DivDad]

Borderlines like to compartmentalize information.  They tell one son or daughter one thing... .  and stress not to say anything.   Then they tell the other parent another thing... .  or they will have a manipulating spin on the information or story.  Borderlines have a knack to juggle mulitple stories to different people and keep them all "straight."   It never ends.  The only thing you can do is keep log or journal and have it in some sort of "sequence of events" of who said what and when. When you go back over time and read it... .  you will see a distinct pattern of lies and manipulation.    The journal might help if you need and attorney... .  but it's mainly to  keep YOU sane.