Did your ex have separation anxiety?

[Diana82]

Did your ex have separation anxiety?

Just putting this question out there out of curiosity... to see if it's linked to BPD... .  

My ex suffered from separation anxiety as a kid (didn't ever want to go to school)  and rarely ate anything.

As an adult, my ex still suffered from this. She was always saying she is "attached" to me more than saying she loved me. And told me that when she was apart from me she'd feel a deep ache in her chest. She'd also tell me her "heart was pounding" whenever we'd argue or even discuss moving somewhere. She was quite clingy early on.  And didn't seem happy if she was alone in her apartment for too long.

She was weirdly attached to her family too. She told me she needed to live right near them for her "sanity".

I'm close with my family but not attached. She didn't seem as close as I was... just had this strange attachment.

We couldn't even consider living anywhere else (even interstate 1 hr plane flight) for a while without her feeling very anxious about it.  She sobbed over the idea of us moving interstate for 9 months! Saying she "feels guilty" about leaving her family.

But I could tell that it was because she couldn't leave them out of fear. And even if it was with ME... the person she was apparently 'attached' to as well.

[recoil]

Not mine.  She's a hermit.

They are pretty independent.

She would have ailments after arguments (migraines, GI problems, chest pain).  It's anxiety manifesting itself into either real or imagined physical pain - at least for my ex.

[Surnia]

Diana 

I know so much of your ex. Its kind of repeated... .  

What about you? I would really like to hear from your family. You as a child, you when you were younger and about your family. Tell us more about you, please.

[Diana82]

Recoil>  Lol a hermit.  Mine was definitely homely but not independent. She was quite needy and felt isolated when she was alone at home. I don't think she would have coped living alone.

Yes I think you're right about anxiety manifesting itself. My ex even had a panic attack after our first big fight...

At the time I didn't even understand what that was!

[Diana82]

Hi Surnia

Sure, I'll tell you about me... .  

Ok, well I grew up in a small loving family. My parents were always very supportive and did a lot for us but were quite over protective. My Mum is a warm, generous woman but very feisty. My dad is a softer more gentle person who doesn't like confrontation.

I was a mostly happy shy-ish kid, who enjoyed sport. I seemed to make friends easily and never had any issues with bullies etc. But I always felt something wasn't quite right about me and could never pinpoint it. 

I was a tomboy and really could relate to boys... and seemed to only view girls as 'pretty' but didn't want to hang out in the school yard with them. I think this made me feel confused as a kid and I started to become a lot more of an introvert.

As I grew up I realised I could be gay... .  but kind of repressed it. I went out with a few guys in my early 20s and tried to almost force myself to be straight. But it never worked.

So I decided I may be bisexual... but that was just a transition.

I started to date women and realised I only liked women.  I was in the closet for a few years and found it hard to tell my family. Especially my Mum.

But now they both know and are fine with it... they were even welcoming and very warm towards  my recent exBPD.

I feel to be honest, that one of the reasons I decided to stay with my first pathological lying exgf is because she was my first real love. I was so afraid I may not find a love like that again... especially in the gay community. So I just powered through and forgave her. Even though it was obvious she was still lying to me... I stayed with her. It seems so desperate now... but back then I genuinely worried that she was the last good woman on earth for me.  

And with my recent exBPD... the relationship started to become mediocre... yet, I hung on because I know the selection of women in the gay community in my town is very average. What if I don't find another woman who is this beautiful and intelligent? Or a woman whom I can laugh with like this? Nevermind the fact that this woman was not really offering me anything and was weirdly rude and didn't ever get me anything sentimental in 3 years. Not to mention (again) she was consistently inconsistent with her stories of abuse.

So I am my own worst enemy in many ways. I chose to stay with both women... .  thinking that this is the best I can get because there's such a small selection- I have to settle for mediocre or be alone.

At the end of the last rship... I was so angry at my ex for being so rude and inconsistent... yet when she got upset... I recoiled. I took back everything I had said and apologised. I allowed her to play the victim again... .  i worried I had hurt her... I couldn't bare it.

SO I became this doormat rescuer to her. Even when she was dumping me.

[FoolishOne]

I swear mine has Social Anxiety Disorder.  She hates going out... .  and 95% of the time we went out it would results in an argument.  She didn't want to socialize or mingle at all.  I thought, how frustrating is this... .  I have a hot wife and can't take her out... .  She wants to stay in.  Some guys would love the fact that they have a hot wife that wants to do nothing else than stay at home and have sex.  As appealing as that sounds, it gets very old.  We would spend the vast majority of our time together watching TV... .  and that's about it.  What a life to look forward to.

[20years]

hi diana. Yes he did have separation  anxiety... .  we were never ever apart for the first few years each time I left him after unacceptable behaviour... .  he just wouldn't keep away.

Once he turned up unexpectedly and stated " I don't know why I am here I just can't seem to stay away from you". Another time "just lets sort this out that other women didn't mean anything"... .  

Sometimes he did become extremly distressed when we were separated... .  other times there was a woman involved along with substance abuse... .  so that kept the lid on separation anxiety... .  but not for long he always came back... .  

[Surnia]

I really love your last post. Much more personal than others before.

that she was the last good woman on earth for me.

I can relate with this. I do the same with men. It is something in my head, sort of emotional reasoning. I am telling myself: In my age interesting man are either happily married with a family or they are single but disordered or have drugs problems. Its also black and white thinking... .  

SO I became this doormat rescuer to her. Even when she was dumping me.

Sounds like weak boundaries. Sounds like you are stepping in your fathers shoes. (Very familiar for me too!)

[Diana82]

thanks Surnia...

How do you mean, stepping into my father's shoes?

[Surnia]

You have told:

My dad is a softer more gentle person who doesn't like confrontation.

People avoiding confrontation have often weak boundaries, having weak boundaries is a risk to be easier treated as a doormat. This makes me think about you feeling like a doormat. So, what about you and confrontation/boundaries?

[HarmKrakow]

I tend to believe non-BPD in a BPD relationship also suffer from a mild form of separation anxiety. You are heads over love with your pwBPD but that person doesn't share that feeling with you. You know by letting go in the r/s, you might not see him/her ever again. That hurts, and therefore you remain in the relationship with the false hope of maybe getting him/her back in his/her old state of mind when everything was going smoothly.

[Seb]

I felt that my ex was weirdly attached to her family.

She would strike me as regressing to a little girl whenever she brought them up. Of course they didn't know she had a girlfriend, so whenever they would come to visit I would have to make myself scarce for the weekend. I used to find it odd... .  she's a 28yr old doctor, her brother is a big shot trader in the city (but very odd by all accounts, 32, never had a girlfriend, socially awkward) and the 3 of them would descend on her one-bedroom flat for family weekends. She used to describe her parents as "shy"... another oddity to me. I wouldn't ever describe parents as "shy", isn't that a tag attributed to children? My parents are sociable, outgoing and definitely not shy.

Ok, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with having family weekends - every family is different. It just used to strike me as a bit strange. Probably because I could never imagine my family doing that. Sure, I'd have weekends with my sisters, or we'd go and see my mum for lunch... .  but never family weekends like they had where my mum and dad would want to come and sleep on a blow-up bed in my apartment.

Another thing that struck me as a bit off... .  I used to say to my ex how much I loved her and how she was the most special and important person in my life. She would respond by saying, "Well, I'm not, your family are the most important people".  I remember thinking that was such an odd thing to say. Yes, family are very important, but your lover, your life partner, of course they're the most important person in your life. I would say that, "No, I love my family, but you're the most precious person in my life".

I felt that something was up, how she was so attached to them. She would always tell me how critical her mother was of her, making disparaging comments about her nose and so on... .  but I did begin to feel like I was becoming the stand-in mother to her.  She would throw tantrums as if I was her mother, and she was the unruly teenager.

We'd cuddle in bed after sex and she'd place her closed eye against my nose and insist I push my nose hard in to her eye as her mother used to do to her... .  makes me feel so creeped out when I think of that now!     Eeeeek! *runs off to wash*

The week before she dumped me we went for a walk in to the bay area to get a coffee, and we ended up having a silly disagreement about something. I got up and walked off to get some space for 10 mins, I just didn't want to argue about something so minor and silly (she was in the devaluing stage I know now). I just wanted to leave her settle for 10 minutes. I stopped, waited for her to catch up, and we walked home.  That was our turning point. She changed from that day. When I asked her about the change, she said it had terrified her that I had just left her. She was scared more than she'd ever felt in her life by me doing that, that I had just got up and left her - this was in a public place about 5/10 mins from our flat - it wasn't in the middle of some deserted place, but I see now that I massively triggered her abandonment fears. I apologised, and explained I was just trying to get some space, to stop a silly disagreement from escalating. I even said to her, "I would have always come back, I would never have left you there". She went on to tell me she was worried that I was only staying with her because she had got upset. I tried to reassure her, I loved her, wanted to spend the rest of my life with her... wasn't I proving it with my actions? I'd told my family about her, had resigned my job and applied to a new one so that we could live together... .  She loved me "in every possible way" on Monday night, and I was dumped Tuesday night.

It's only when you're detached enough to look at it from a fresh perspective that you can look at the bigger picture objectively. I own my problems. I can see how I was contributing to this. But there is no beating a disorder. Her behaviours, which were unacceptable, led to arguments. And as she has no conflict-resolution skills, she ran. She was always convinced I was out of her league and would leave her for a man. Nothing I said would have convinced her, nothing I did would have proved that I was in this for the long-haul.

It's realising that you're not crazy, that these break-ups are different, and there's nothing you could have done to change the outcome. We all get to this point eventually - we all end up breaking up with the "love of our lives" - that's why its a disorder. You can't beat it, I can't, none of us can. We all know how hard we tried.

What stage are you at now? Are you finding yourself thinking about the injustice of it all continually? Are you working? Doing things you enjoy with friends?  

[Mupetto]

Attached?  I was smothered. She constantly needed to be with me and to be told that I should constantly want to be with her. Now this is a sweet notion and I was initially touched by the fact that someone would want to be with me – all the time. But in the end I could not breath. I was not able to have my own thoughts nor I could not develop other relationships. This, I now see, was her goal.

It occurs to me now that this method of control was about trying to mitigate her worst fears – abandonment. It was also about her getting and maintaining control over me. I think she believed that if she had control over my/our life then bad things would not happen. This of course is a grossly immature and in fact it had such a negative effect on me that I left because of it.

Odd hey? What she feared the most she actually enabled (fear of abandonment). Her fear and focus on abandonment created abandonment. 

I worked with her. We were health care providers and if we were on different shifts she would ring or visit and ask whom I had been talking to and what we had been discussing. I would attend professional development courses and she would take time off and come with me. It blocked any fellowship or networking that I would have loved to been able to do. She would read my emails and texts (because “if I really trusted her there should be no secretes”). And of course she would interpret them from her fragile and suspicious mindset so I was constantly defending messages that were misinterpreted.

[goodguy]

My exgf definitely did. We were LD for the second half of our 7-month relationship, and when I would come visit her, every time I left she cried and cried like someone was dying, even though I'd be scheduled to come back in a week or two. It was very sad to experience

[GustheDog]

My exgf definitely did. We were LD for the second half of our 7-month relationship, and when I would come visit her, every time I left she cried and cried like someone was dying, even though I'd be scheduled to come back in a week or two. It was very sad to experience

Yeah, same.  We were LD for the last year of our r/s, and I always remember her getting sad to the point of crying (or very close) when she'd be driving me to the airport.  Sometimes she'd even get sulky and and depressed the night before I'd be leaving.

I read in another thread - maybe not even on this site, can't remember - where someone was sharing his view of why detaching is so hard (in addition to the trauma of splitting, that is).  He said that you're not only losing your ideal romantic partner, but also your child.  I found I could very much relate to this point.

[Diana82]

Harmkrakow> yes I think you have a point.

I too became attached to my ex towards second half.

However, I was also content being alone. We'd go out for a Sunday day trip and that night I'd drop her back to her place. She'd be very quiet and depressed. She'd tell me she feels down and has a deep ache in her chest because we are saying goodbye. Then she'd add "I'm very attached". It was said more than "I'm in love with you".

My ex could not be alone for long and I felt like her "love" for me was more about attachment... filling her void. Just like age attached herself to her friend/flatmate. I saw a weird reliance on him.

My ex did some sweet things sometimes. But in 3 years not once gave me anything sentimental. I didn't even get a piece of jewellery (when I had given her a ring and bracelet).

I would have even loved a picture of us in a frame! Something I could keep just from her.

Anyone else feel it wasn't real love?

[BeHappyAgain]

Seb

Your comments that 'we're not mad, its a disorder, we can't beat it and we all know how hard we tried'  rings very true and are comforting to read.

Diana 82

Yes my ex uBPDgf had separartion anxiety.

For example... I visit my (88 year old) parents about once every 6 weeks, they live a 2hr drive away. I stay 3-4 nights there. Whenever I was there my ex would text how she missed me, loved me, hated waking up without me, when you coming home? etc etc.

She did this every time I made this or any trip that involved overnight stays away. I didn't mind - it made me feel secure and wanted.

But it was all a joke really. When I did get home there was zero affection/sex/kissing.

She did this text stuff (as usual) the last time I visited my parents.

All the usual words. I see now that it was just separation anxiety - not love for me.

I was dumped (6th time?) a few weeks later utterly discarded like yesterdays dinner.

I never want love like that again.

That why 2013 will involve some work on me and my belief patterns shaped by childhood traumas - rather than just 'changing heads' ie rushing into another relationship.

Learning to accept myself x

[Diana82]

Did anyone else here ever feel " on par" with other people in their ex's life?

I was always hoping my ex would do something special for me that she did not do for anyone else.

She loved to cook and shed make these lavish meals for me.

And i thought that was the unique thing. Sure, she didnt buy me jewellery or such but she cooked with "love" so to speak. And it was sweet.

But the next day she'd make the exact same meal for her friend/flat mate, her parents, sister in law. Didn't feel that special then.

I'm not materialistic but I do believe in sentimentality.

I bought her a Tiffany bracelet for our one year anniversary . She loved it! Then after 2 years bought her a ring. I loved going shopping for her... choosing a piece of sentimental jewellery to show how special she is to me.

She never got me even earrings from a market!

One day she said to me "I love my ring. Everyday I look at my hand and I think of you".

And I jokingly said "where's my ring huh!"

And she told me " I can't get you a ring right now just because you bought me one"

Then later she told me she couldn't afford it.

Yet... we'd go to a pub for a drink and she'd end up buying a rack of lamb for $50 AUD. Then she'd buy Chanel perfume for herself a lot. I knew she had money.

I saved up for months for her ring. Didn't buy myself perfume for a year.

Maybe it's not on her radar I don't know. But 3 years and no jewellery or sentimentality?

She'd write me love poems sometimes. Even wrote I meant "the world to her". But I always felt the lack of sentimentality was weird...

And when she dumped me she suddenly said " I'm not in love" after saying her love was "deep" days before as well as declaring how attached she was!

Anyone else felt the same? Ie you didn't feel they were in love and there was a lack of sentimentality?

It was upsetting she didn't want to even buy me an artistic pair of earrings or a bracelet. She didn't have to spend much! It's not about the money. So maybe "love" to her is more about attachment rather than in love feelings. Hence why she was able to shift overnight with the "love" thing

[Diana82]

Seb... sounds almost like a "maternal" relationship you had with her.

I felt that too... Not in a creepy way per ce. But She always wanted me to snuggle her... hold her... massage her...

She had this child like quality about her.

[Diana82]

To add... Besides cooking... (which she did) I felt like the caregiver. I felt like the bloke in the relationship  the chivalrous one... The one who bought her jewellery

[HarmKrakow]

Did anyone else here ever feel " on par" with other people in their ex's life?

I was always hoping my ex would do something special for me that she did not do for anyone else.

She loved to cook and shed make these lavish meals for me.

And i thought that was the unique thing. Sure, she didnt buy me jewellery or such but she cooked with "love" so to speak. And it was sweet.

But the next day she'd make the exact same meal for her friend/flat mate, her parents, sister in law. Didn't feel that special then.

I'm not materialistic but I do believe in sentimentality.

I bought her a Tiffany bracelet for our one year anniversary . She loved it! Then after 2 years bought her a ring. I loved going shopping for her... choosing a piece of sentimental jewellery to show how special she is to me.

She never got me even earrings from a market!

One day she said to me "I love my ring. Everyday I look at my hand and I think of you".

And I jokingly said "where's my ring huh!"

And she told me " I can't get you a ring right now just because you bought me one"

Then later she told me she couldn't afford it.

Yet... we'd go to a pub for a drink and she'd end up buying a rack of lamb for $50 AUD. Then she'd buy Chanel perfume for herself a lot. I knew she had money.

I saved up for months for her ring. Didn't buy myself perfume for a year.

Maybe it's not on her radar I don't know. But 3 years and no jewellery or sentimentality?

She'd write me love poems sometimes. Even wrote I meant "the world to her". But I always felt the lack of sentimentality was weird...

And when she dumped me she suddenly said " I'm not in love" after saying her love was "deep" days before as well as declaring how attached she was!

Anyone else felt the same? Ie you didn't feel they were in love and there was a lack of sentimentality?

It was upsetting she didn't want to even buy me an artistic pair of earrings or a bracelet. She didn't have to spend much! It's not about the money. So maybe "love" to her is more about attachment rather than in love feelings. Hence why she was able to shift overnight with the "love" thing

My current gf w BPD does do things specific for me. As in, she makes an arrangement and only does it for me! That she does. However, was it in balance? No, far from. I think your mostly looking for reasons why she stepped over you so quickly. I think the illness makes it more difficult for her to understand your feelings but that doesn't necessarily mean she won't shower or smother you in love. Mine could tell me that she wanted to grow old with me and stay with me forever and a week later could think about breaking up.

I think most of us non-BPDers felt like their gf/bf did love them, hell even put them on a pedestal as the best person in their life, and at the time of the r/s FELT like it was genuine love, however the moment the BPDer stepped over the feelings of the other person the NON-BPD starts to wonder whether or not it was all real, and therefore the majority ends also here on this board :P 

[Surnia]

I felt like the caregiver.

Many of us are/were in this role. Me too. It is a good topic for some insight.

What about the FOO? (caregiver to my bipolar mother and bc of this to my younger siblings)

What do/did I take out of it? (good for my low self esteem. I have to do something to be loved. Love is not for free.)

[Seb]

Seb... sounds almost like a "maternal" relationship you had with her.

I felt that too... Not in a creepy way per ce. But She always wanted me to snuggle her... hold her... massage her...

She had this child like quality about her.

At the time I felt uneasy about it, but not as much as I do now looking back. 

Like you said, I felt like I was in the caretaker role. Her mother was a little cruel to her, tore her down and made disparaging comments about her appearance, and was totally emotionally unavailable to her... .  in contrast, I was kind to her, I built her up, I praised her, told her how beautiful she was to me, in and out. It's almost like I was reparenting her - I was giving her what she really needed from her mother first time around. 

She needed me to look after her because I felt she was so emotionally fragile. She seemed to cry at the drop of a hat, everything seemed too much for her to cope with, and I was there to support her, comfort her, tell her everything was going to be ok.  I had nothing like that in return, she just didn't know how to do it. Her way of being reciprocal was taking me out for meals, weekends away... .  and in return I looked after her emotionally.

[Diana82]

Seb> fragile is definitely the word to describe my ex. Felt like she had no skin and could burn so easily.

I should take note of my ex's own words to herself- other people are not responsible for filling her void. I was not responsible and can never be held responsible.

Just wondering though... did your exgf buy you sentimental gifts? I felt upset that I never got anything I could keep from my ex in 3 years. It felt wrong almost

[Diana82]

As I said- she did cook special meals and got me chocolates sometimes. She also bought me "experiences" for my birthdays ie concert tickets.

But nothing at all romantic or sentimental and I heard "I am attached to you " more than " I'm in love with you"

[Seb]

Saying she was attached to you more than love with you is a bizarre statement to make!    Mine would say very easily, "love you baby".

I remember once I said that I didn't just love her, I was in love with her, and she didn't know what the difference was. I said that there was a difference from loving someone to being in love with someone - she couldn't work that one out, totally stumped by it.

Mine didn't do sentimental gifts often... though she did try every now and then to be thoughtful when buying me gifts. It didn't come easily for her. She was always buying me cuddly toys (oh god! I type these things mortified and embarrassed that I actually stayed in this r/s), xmas, valentines day, easter... .  she was like yours, loved to cook, take me for weekends away etc... .  and in return I looked after her.  Your ex not buying you sentimental gifts is probably all down to the selfish nature of the disorder... it's all about what you can give her, what you can do for her. It's not personal, it probably never occurred to her that you would have liked it.

You know, I think to myself sometimes how I could have been betrayed by her, and how I never saw it coming... .  

BUT, I obviously have someone in my FOO that also behaves in a similar way... her destructive and emotionally abusive behaviours, her self-loathing and suicidal gestures weren't alien to me. Healthier people spot these destructive behaviours and leave, knowing that they deserve better, thinking *glad I dodged that bullet*.  I saw them, and rather than run, it was familiar to me, so I threw myself all in. I am good at rescuing/fixing people, it's what I've always done.

Do you see any patterns that resonate with your FOO? Maybe that's a good place to start. Her issues are hers... .  your ex and mine, the caretaker role they wanted us to assume, that's their stuff to work through. So, what's ours? Why we thought we didn't deserve more?  Why we stayed even though we saw someone not emotionally healthy and happy? We saw lies, we saw lots of destructive behaviours... .  yet we stayed. Why?

I know my father is the person that my exgf resembles. In therapy I have seen how similar they are. It's scary. She displays behaviours that he did too. I then assumed the same role as my mother. This unhealthy bond was familiar to me.

Who in your FOO has also treated you poorly? Can you pinpoint what it is that is familiar to you?

[GustheDog]

Saying she was attached to you more than love with you is a bizarre statement to make!    Mine would say very easily, "love you baby".

I remember once I said that I didn't just love her, I was in love with her, and she didn't know what the difference was. I said that there was a difference from loving someone to being in love with someone - she couldn't work that one out, totally stumped by it.

Mine didn't do sentimental gifts often... though she did try every now and then to be thoughtful when buying me gifts. It didn't come easily for her. She was always buying me cuddly toys (oh god! I type these things mortified and embarrassed that I actually stayed in this r/s), xmas, valentines day, easter... .  she was like yours, loved to cook, take me for weekends away etc... .  and in return I looked after her.  Your ex not buying you sentimental gifts is probably all down to the selfish nature of the disorder... it's all about what you can give her, what you can do for her. It's not personal, it probably never occurred to her that you would have liked it.

You know, I think to myself sometimes how I could have been betrayed by her, and how I never saw it coming... .  

BUT, I obviously have someone in my FOO that also behaves in a similar way... her destructive and emotionally abusive behaviours, her self-loathing and suicidal gestures weren't alien to me. Healthier people spot these destructive behaviours and leave, knowing that they deserve better, thinking *glad I dodged that bullet*.  I saw them, and rather than run, it was familiar to me, so I threw myself all in. I am good at rescuing/fixing people, it's what I've always done.

Do you see any patterns that resonate with your FOO? Maybe that's a good place to start. Her issues are hers... .  your ex and mine, the caretaker role they wanted us to assume, that's their stuff to work through. So, what's ours? Why we thought we didn't deserve more?  Why we stayed even though we saw someone not emotionally healthy and happy? We saw lies, we saw lots of destructive behaviours... .  yet we stayed. Why?

I know my father is the person that my exgf resembles. In therapy I have seen how similar they are. It's scary. She displays behaviours that he did too. I then assumed the same role as my mother. This unhealthy bond was familiar to me.

Who in your FOO has also treated you poorly? Can you pinpoint what it is that is familiar to you?

Exactly right here, Seb.

I've realized that she chose me to replace her mother, and I chose her to replace my alcoholic, NPD father.

Nothing was ever good enough for this man.  His sporadic moods, frustrations, anger, resentment, and silent treatments were always the fault of "those Godd*mn kids again!"  I was told I was lazy, stupid, irresponsible, and was frequently very blatantly ignored.  Could be as simple as asking: "Hey Dad, what are you doing today?"  If he didn't feel like acknowledging your presence, your question, or your existence - he didn't.  He's never once admitted any bit of wrongdoing nor has he ever apologized to me for any of his behavior.  I've since gone NC with him and he can rot as far as I'm concerned.

I now laugh at the projection my ex threw at me during our breakup: "You are your father!"

Sorry, but no.  You are.