The Paradox of Leaving

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Hey guys... .  I am trying to end this for good. She threatened me a bunch of time with false accusations so I will be staying away. I am fearful of her showing up at my house and apologizing. I know that if she showed up at my house right now I would want to give her a hug at the very least.

I am aware of my negative contributions at the end of this relationship. I contacted her mom and her aa sponsor but i was so irrational that even though I was trying to help i ended up sounding nuts... .  I am sure. I knew a distortion campaign was happening so i tried to stop it in its tracks... .  i was hoping the death of the incestual philandering father which i created the slideshow for and stood in the front row w daughters would bring us closer (after the storm which i knew was inevitable... .  that i was bracing for, hypervigilant, etc... .  ) It came. Man this was the biggest hurricane yet. She relapsed on alcohol after 15 months sober at my house

In the end perhaps I wanted people in her life to see how much pain and confusion i was in and how much I cared about their daughter (sponsee). I think i exaggerated certain things to get their attention and also acted intentionally reckless  so that others in her life will tell her to stay away from me.

Her and I both seem to be aware of the fact that there is something real deep down inside... .  its so sad that I feel like this time we got close in a different way. Her dad died. She said " I love you and you love me" but we arent good for eachother. I think her aa sponsor and sister was feeding her this but it is undeniably true.

With her dad gone. I became the only trigger for her rage (which I believe is due to incest from her father). I told her mom and sponsor about this... .  (I sent her sponsor an article on BPD an incest and probably freaked her out because she is in a cult and thinks psychology and science is evil )but was so upset by the entire experience (raging and talking about trying to figure out whether her dad raped her sister as a baby for the past 4 years, while drunk) that i needed help from the other people who cared about her... .  

I was so upset that I told her sponsor that she got raped by her dad as fact... .  shortly thereafter I wasn't able to explain my situation to anybody... .  

Her mom's long term partner called me... .  and shes been warning me about BPDex for a long time... .  never could understand why i was with her. She said she cant get involved with this because my ex was her partners child. But that I owe no apology, and as far as she was concerned I was 100% correct and justified in what i said and did... .  and that she thought I was a kind and loving person who was destined to be successful and that I deserve to be treated right in a relationship... .  and that if i decided to work with BPDEX some more on rs, that I would need to take better care of myself... but that my fatal error was in telling my nBPD ex's mother who i believe is more NPD... .  that "I cared more about her own daughter than she did"... .  which was supposed to be a wake up call and I felt like this at time. Like I cared more about my BPDex than her own mother.

In any case I was proud at the time for standing up for myself and my BPDex and doing the right thing about unresolved sexual trauma by contacting her family and aa sponsor since she has no therapist.

I was adamant about therapy for her unresolved traumas... .  and cried on their couch. In the end the mom screamed at me and told me i had psych problems too and get out of her house.

Mental illness runs in her family myBPD ex told me after she exited treatment. She said in all the "institutions" shes been in no one has ever told her BPD... .  i assume they told her complex_ptsd for insurance purposes... .  because when i pleaded with her to see a T specializing in C-pTSD and BPD she seemed more receptive. Maybe they told her something worse... .  I wont know  She has told me that shes not capable of loving me the same way I love her and that shes worried that she will never meet my expectations and that concerns her... .  how heartbreaking.

I told her I want NC with her since she isnt receiving treament for her psych issues and only for aa and addiction which I believe is a symptom of her psych issues... .  the detox that took her in for alcohol told me that aa can kill people like her by asking her to push down her "symptoms" and reccommened immediate therapy for trauma resolution and unresolved issues... .  CBT,DBT, and HRMA or whatever the hypnosis.

I am so pissed off at the sponsor for mistreating my nBPD ex. She was in AA with her dad and her sister... .  like anyone can be honest in that dynamic... .  thpppt. Im so sickened by the denial in this family. Im so sickened that nobody in the family reached out to provide some advice when she moved in.

Her family would make comments towards me such as " Oh wow, you really hold your cool in tough situations. I wish I was more like you."... .  im not an idiot. I know that these people were somewhat aware of her condition but would not discuss with me even though I have been there for her and she moved in to my house after her dad died [from sober-living house]... .  I wanted to be there for her so she didnt do anything stupid during grief process... .  (codependent).

I would push down a lot of the irrational stuff she did and it all comes out when its over and it just shocks me over and over... .  

Im seeing my T on tuesday. She has some BPD books on her shelf... .  i saw "get me out of here: personal recovery story"... .  etc... .  etc. She seems to be upset with me for "diagnosing" my ex... .  but why would I be here if she didn't have BPD... .  everything led me to this... .  

Ive only mentioned BPD to my BPDexgf 2 or 3 times in the course of a 4 year friendship/relationship. Though ive researched it for hundreds of hours. This was out of fear and out of following the advice I have gathered which tries to keep the focus on the positive and not a labeling diagnosis that enables her to misbehave, or causes toxic shame inside of her. No matter how many times I tried to say that mental illness is nothing to be ashamed of... .  it hurt her on a profound level. Like the fact that I knew, hurt her.

Ive met others who i felt were BPD... .  and then they told me about it when I said "I sense something about you... .  I have a lot of empathy and get along really well with certain types of people... .  " then they tell me they have BPD. Its happened twice.

As Ive explored my own codependency... .  and tried to lessen it in this relationship. Her anger got worse... due to extinction burst. She told me I have bad timing... .  just was very ambiguous about everything. Her and I have some sort of connection beyound the trauma bonding and stockholm syndrome and codependency.

I dont care if anyone calls me an armchair psychologist, even my therapist. I can agree that its dangerous to think you are competent about something when you are not. I am not competent about all things psychology... .  but I have studied it A LOT.

I have a BS in math , and a BA in philosohpy and I took ap psychology and got a 5 when i was 12.

My aunt and uncle are both psychs with PHDs from ucla... .  

I have N parents, was scapegoat/black sheep and look for love from people who cant give it (like my parents).

I know she didnt want to hurt me. I know that she is trying to get better... .  I think AA helps people like her. But without therapy and possibly medication for BPD i dont see a relationship with her ever benefiting me on the whole... .  even though I absolutely love her. I think i just have to pretend she doesnt exist anymore because otherwise she will torture me for the rest of my life.

Im hoping my T isnt a PD herself that majored in psych to fix herself and then ended up being a counselor... .  

[stoic83]

Hey guys... .  I am trying to end this for good. She threatened me a bunch of time with false accusations so I will be staying away. I am fearful of her showing up at my house and apologizing. I know that if she showed up at my house right now I would want to give her a hug at the very least.

I am aware of my negative contributions at the end of this relationship. I contacted her mom and her aa sponsor but i was so irrational that even though I was trying to help i ended up sounding nuts... .  I am sure. I knew a distortion campaign was happening so i tried to stop it in its tracks... .  i was hoping the death of the incestual philandering father which i created the slideshow for and stood in the front row w daughters would bring us closer (after the storm which i knew was inevitable... .  that i was bracing for, hypervigilant, etc... .  ) It came. Man this was the biggest hurricane yet. She relapsed on alcohol after 15 months sober at my house

In the end perhaps I wanted people in her life to see how much pain and confusion i was in and how much I cared about their daughter (sponsee). I think i exaggerated certain things to get their attention and also acted intentionally reckless  so that others in her life will tell her to stay away from me.

Her and I both seem to be aware of the fact that there is something real deep down inside... .  its so sad that I feel like this time we got close in a different way. Her dad died. She said " I love you and you love me" but we arent good for eachother. I think her aa sponsor and sister was feeding her this but it is undeniably true.

With her dad gone. I became the only trigger for her rage (which I believe is due to incest from her father). I told her mom and sponsor about this... .  (I sent her sponsor an article on BPD an incest and probably freaked her out because she is in a cult and thinks psychology and science is evil )but was so upset by the entire experience (raging and talking about trying to figure out whether her dad raped her sister as a baby for the past 4 years, while drunk) that i needed help from the other people who cared about her... .  

I was so upset that I told her sponsor that she got raped by her dad as fact... .  shortly thereafter I wasn't able to explain my situation to anybody... .  

Her mom's long term partner called me... .  and shes been warning me about BPDex for a long time... .  never could understand why i was with her. She said she cant get involved with this because my ex was her partners child. But that I owe no apology, and as far as she was concerned I was 100% correct and justified in what i said and did... .  and that she thought I was a kind and loving person who was destined to be successful and that I deserve to be treated right in a relationship... .  and that if i decided to work with BPDEX some more on rs, that I would need to take better care of myself... but that my fatal error was in telling my nBPD ex's mother who i believe is more NPD... .  that "I cared more about her own daughter than she did"... .  which was supposed to be a wake up call and I felt like this at time. Like I cared more about my BPDex than her own mother.

In any case I was proud at the time for standing up for myself and my BPDex and doing the right thing about unresolved sexual trauma by contacting her family and aa sponsor since she has no therapist.

I was adamant about therapy for her unresolved traumas... .  and cried on their couch. In the end the mom screamed at me and told me i had psych problems too and get out of her house.

Mental illness runs in her family myBPD ex told me after she exited treatment. She said in all the "institutions" shes been in no one has ever told her BPD... .  i assume they told her complex_ptsd for insurance purposes... .  because when i pleaded with her to see a T specializing in C-pTSD and BPD she seemed more receptive. Maybe they told her something worse... .  I wont know  She has told me that shes not capable of loving me the same way I love her and that shes worried that she will never meet my expectations and that concerns her... .  how heartbreaking.

I told her I want NC with her since she isnt receiving treament for her psych issues and only for aa and addiction which I believe is a symptom of her psych issues... .  the detox that took her in for alcohol told me that aa can kill people like her by asking her to push down her "symptoms" and reccommened immediate therapy for trauma resolution and unresolved issues... .  CBT,DBT, and HRMA or whatever the hypnosis.

I am so pissed off at the sponsor for mistreating my nBPD ex. She was in AA with her dad and her sister... .  like anyone can be honest in that dynamic... .  thpppt. Im so sickened by the denial in this family. Im so sickened that nobody in the family reached out to provide some advice when she moved in.

Her family would make comments towards me such as " Oh wow, you really hold your cool in tough situations. I wish I was more like you."... .  im not an idiot. I know that these people were somewhat aware of her condition but would not discuss with me even though I have been there for her and she moved in to my house after her dad died [from sober-living house]... .  I wanted to be there for her so she didnt do anything stupid during grief process... .  (codependent).

I would push down a lot of the irrational stuff she did and it all comes out when its over and it just shocks me over and over... .  

Im seeing my T on tuesday. She has some BPD books on her shelf... .  i saw "get me out of here: personal recovery story"... .  etc... .  etc. She seems to be upset with me for "diagnosing" my ex... .  but why would I be here if she didn't have BPD... .  everything led me to this... .  

Ive only mentioned BPD to my BPDexgf 2 or 3 times in the course of a 4 year friendship/relationship. Though ive researched it for hundreds of hours. This was out of fear and out of following the advice I have gathered which tries to keep the focus on the positive and not a labeling diagnosis that enables her to misbehave, or causes toxic shame inside of her. No matter how many times I tried to say that mental illness is nothing to be ashamed of... .  it hurt her on a profound level. Like the fact that I knew, hurt her.

Ive met others who i felt were BPD... .  and then they told me about it when I said "I sense something about you... .  I have a lot of empathy and get along really well with certain types of people... .  " then they tell me they have BPD. Its happened twice.

As Ive explored my own codependency... .  and tried to lessen it in this relationship. Her anger got worse... due to extinction burst. She told me I have bad timing... .  just was very ambiguous about everything. Her and I have some sort of connection beyound the trauma bonding and stockholm syndrome and codependency.

I dont care if anyone calls me an armchair psychologist, even my therapist. I can agree that its dangerous to think you are competent about something when you are not. I am not competent about all things psychology... .  but I have studied it A LOT.

I have a BS in math , and a BA in philosohpy and I took ap psychology and got a 5 when i was 12.

My aunt and uncle are both psychs with PHDs from ucla... .  

I have N parents, was scapegoat/black sheep and look for love from people who cant give it (like my parents).

I know she didnt want to hurt me. I know that she is trying to get better... .  I think AA helps people like her. But without therapy and possibly medication for BPD i dont see a relationship with her ever benefiting me on the whole... .  even though I absolutely love her. I think i just have to pretend she doesnt exist anymore because otherwise she will torture me for the rest of my life.

Im hoping my T isnt a PD herself that majored in psych to fix herself and then ended up being a counselor... .  

[waitaminute]

What is the paradox? That you say you want to leave but you have actuality inserted yourself more deeply into her life via her family and supporters?

From what I've read...   more black paint will come. I would read up on the dos and donts of protecting and defending and extricating yourself.

[stoic83]

The paradoxical nature of leaving was implied... .  or so I thought.

I actually raged at her support network. They are a ~ty support network.

Her mom encouraged her to act abusive towards me.

Her sponsor encouraged her to push down her symptoms and "work the program".

I want to end this relationship... .  but if you grow close to a BPD to you start to feel responsible for them.

After so many threats of suicide the arm-cutting etc etc... .  I love the human but I hate the disorder.

Hearing so much AA gospel lately combined with the psychology is a recipe for a lot of contradictions.

I feel criticized by my peers for acting irrationally. Before this... I was a better man.

You are correct I did not disengage properly. I did during previous relationships with this woman, but this time I snapped... .  her dad died, my moms mom is dying... .  thats two BPDs with abandonment rage directed towards me.

Im not trying to make excuses for my behavior but if you were working from home and having to deal with this than you would snap too. I had my family and BPDex discard me at the same time.

I need to hold it together... .  I feel like she disengaged in a healthier way than I did. She is completely indifferent to me. You have to understand how irrational this is to me. I just went through her father's death with her... .  I have known this woman for four years. She just discarded me again like trash and it really hurts... .  I am not handling it very well. It feels very unnatural... .  does that make sense?

[stoic83]

I want to end this relationship... .  but if you grow close to a BPD to you start to feel responsible for them.

Correction. I have ended this relationship.

[Newton]

stoic83... .  if she has BPD then her disengagement from you was far from healthy... .  she employed splitting and dissociation... .  that represents major underlying mental health issues... .  

You, on the other hand... .  were triggered... .  acted poorly and out of character at times, and you have posted here taking responsibility for it... .  that IS healthy, self analytical and constructive 

Two questions... .  firstly, why are you putting so much effort into a person who is behaving so destructively?... .  

Secondly... .  what are you getting out of this that is positive?... .  

[waitaminute]

Stoic... .  Hang in there buddy. I have a relatively healthy disengagement (on my part at least) and had but a fraction of the trauma you experienced during the rs. I even initiated the breakup... .  the first and only time that I did. I have a good woman to be with now too. And yet... .  I still have emotional difficulty with it all.

[stoic83]

stoic83... .  if she has BPD then her disengagement from you was far from healthy... .  she employed splitting and dissociation... .  that represents major underlying mental health issues... .  

You, on the other hand... .  were triggered... .  acted poorly and out of character at times, and you have posted here taking responsibility for it... .  that IS healthy, self analytical and constructive 

Two questions... .  firstly, why are you putting so much effort into a person who is behaving so destructively?... .  

Secondly... .  what are you getting out of this that is positive?... .  

Hey newton, I have been through this many times... .  i think having a mother with hf BPD has made me immune to a lot of the behaviors though my ex gf was lf BPD. My mom split me a lot and also push-pulled and abused my dad in front of me for my entire childhood.

I have been aware for quite some time that I am not getting anything positive out of this relationship. Unfortunately my parental dynamics were that my dad did nothing for himself, everything for my mom, and took it out on me So to some extent I just figured I was programmed to fill this role... and since I am not a hedonistic person in general, though I enjoy fine things... .  it just fit for me. I guess?

I am seeing a T tomorrow. Im for sure codependent and have little self-esteem. School and work has always been relatively easy for me... .  I think maybe that I get gratification from solving very difficult problems (or bang my head against the wall for trying to solve impossible ones). Right now I am working on a few innovations , most of them are software related.

Im both brained... .  but I think my intuition has served me well... .  courses where i bested others: Philosophy of Quantam Mechanics, Computability and Logic, Philosophy of Math... .  these logic and philosophy of science courses... .  so I have a different understanding of the world than most people right off the bat.

I think the BPD had an extremely overdeveloped right brain and tended to feel her way through life rather than think... .  since i have this innate intuitive ability maybe I felt like I met my match? She cant complete college... but she is eloquent and has a special intelligence to her from an overdeveloped right brain... .  i could not lie to her... .  she was like a human lie detector... but i am brutally honest anyways, so ME lying was never an issue.

I told her that we were both like X-men... .  . (She is rogue for sure... .  poison) I tried to approach her from a common ground. I am an HSP (highly sensitive person) and pwBPD are very sensitive as well, but in a different way.

I can spot a BPD out in a crowd (well exaggeration) but I can tell when someone has BPD... .  on the first meeting of them. The latest pwBPD i met, i knew in about 15 seconds of speaking with her. She was fully self-aware on medication and studying psychology... .  she drank heavily and was a mess, but was intelligent and fun to hang out with and talk about BPD... .  in the end i turned her down romantically and she split me black. (she was a model)... .  she was buddys roommate when i was on break from ex-girlfriend and she told me that she thought my ex had more than just BPD.

I think I was trying to solve a problem from the past... .  the most important problem of all. How to find the love that I never received from my family... .  my ex was very familiar to me. But much lower functioning than anybody in my family. My sister tried to kill herself and has "i love myself" tatooed on her wrist... .  she sounds BPD-ish. right?

I think they all might be narcissists and Im a co-narcissist. My BPD ex thought that she was a narcissist... .  i am sure she had BPD... .  but NPD too? Man i sure hope not... .  

Either way... .  i am worried i am a narcissist... .  but T's tell me definitely not. Tell me mom's a narcissist. My dad is unremarkable... .  was a shell of a man though he was a stock broker that made millions at one point. I think at the very least im a cerebral narcissist because my family never understood me... .  Im hoping to reduce these tendencies. My first T said I have a lot of self doubt because my family never let me be right, even when I most definitely was... .  it was like they denied my reality.

I have a problem with society at large... .  but watching things like the presidential inaguration today gives me some hope.

I think that we our a society that is being controlled by fear... .  and I think insanity is encouraged. I think it is fairly disgusting that people like to watch other people get hurt on tv and in the movies. I am removed enough from society where I can look at things objectively, and I have decided that it is hard to focus on the positives when the negatives are being shouted from the mountain tops... .  

Good is boring in this day and age. Of course there are some great counter-cultural movements... .  but I digress.

Being separated from all the other kids through school to some extent probably gave me some complex, and the BPDs idealization felt good... plus she didnt care that i was intelligent. That felt nice. I had to tell her flat out that I was smart( most people wouldn't assume I am smart... .  many pseudos appear to be much more intelligent than me). After getting to know me a few times people would like me... .  but put me on a pedestal, or they would just not like me... .  dont understand my humor. I dont fit anyone's stereotype... im an outside the box kind of a guy. Zuckerberg is NPD for sure.

I haven't read a book in many years. I smoke a lot of weed to mellow out so I can spend time with my friends. I have been taught that being smart sucks and being rich and famous is cool. Ignorance is bliss, and if I had to do it over again I would definitely go back in time and make my mom take jello shots twice a week.

Hopefully my T can figure it out. People have told me to just go to grad school... .  Im trying to get this software company off the ground... .  i think i might be safer and happier in academia. I think if i make a lot of money, people will just try to take advantage of me... .  so i self sabotage. I am very trusting and gullible... .  my friends could always play tricks on me. Like taking candy from a baby. Embarrassing.

Maybe I just have no street smarts? I dont know man... .  I get along well with a lot of different kinds of people, but maybe I need to find someone who is healthy... .  not someone who has an overdeveloped right brain. I think if i could find a nice HSP who reads and has nice pillowy breasts and is less anxious than i am. I would be very happy in the relationship. Those are my three requirements for relationship during flea mode... .  haha jk. I dream, i dream.

I like your posts newton. I think that your left-brained approach to this situation is what most of my IT friends take... .  but that's where my system kind of short circuits?

Why do i put effort in to someone who behaves destructively?

Well there are times where I felt alone, and I wish there was someone who had my back. I treated her like I would want to be treated if i was in her shoes. This is called empathy.

I wasnt equipped to handle the feelings associated with her destructive behavior. I think since i learned to tolerate irrational behavior from my family as a child... .  i think that it just felt comfortable enough to continue... .  Getting bad attention is better than no attention... .  right? My mom is a gifted writer, and extremely right brained... and gave my dad no love... and used to make my dad jealous by being nice to me in front of him, and he hated me and tried to destroy me in my adulthood twice.

(got me to quit my job and involved with FBI criminal putting my career in jeopardy, and breaking promises to help me when I made sacrifices that required he follow through with something leaving me in impossible situations and then screaming at me)

This cowboy is gonna be a lone ranger for a while... .  

[stoic83]

Stoic... .  Hang in there buddy. I have a relatively healthy disengagement (on my part at least) and had but a fraction of the trauma you experienced during the rs. I even initiated the breakup... .  the first and only time that I did. I have a good woman to be with now too. And yet... .  I still have emotional difficulty with it all.

Hey waitaminute Im glad you got out when you did man. This relationship should have ended at the first breakup. I think working from home, having limited support network and the ups and downs of being an entrepreneur ... .  made me more vulnerable. its tough to go through this alone... .  I used to have cool girl friends... .  but they have all moved, had kids... .  etc. and i havent made any since i was isolated by my ex and by being an entrepreneur.

It was just an impossible situation. Working from home... .  she could stalk me. It seems like she could sense when I was almost over it and then come back around... .  I think her break ups work in reverse... .  this is something I read... .  so that by the time i am almost over it, she is experiencing the worst of the grief phases and so she comes after me and pedestals me again.

At this point she rarely pedestalled me... .  she has gotten better in some ways and worse in others. I think i could hang around and eventually it would work to some extent... .  but i dont want to be like my dad. I want to be with a woman who is kind and loving and supportive and giving to her man and children.

that was the key breaking point... when I was like I can never have children with this woman... .  time to move on for both our sake... .  not that it is easy... .