He Has Been Upping the Ante - Advise Pls

[DazedButNotConfused]

I usually do pretty well with my dBPDh. Explosions are less and less frequent and their intensity is diminished. Now it is more like a chess match  -  he making a move and me countering with something benign, low key, and, of course, validating.

A few days ago, he started added something new to the routine  -  and, while a twist on all the "old" stuff, has left me confused for a counter move. His latest thing is "Why am I going to Therapy? I never know when we started and I don't know now." (It has been three years and he is no fool. He KNOWS why he is going!).

The last "conversation" went something like this:

     H: I don't even know WHY I am going to Therapy. There is no goal to it.

     Me: It is hard to do something for so long and feel good about if if you feel that there is no goal, isn't it?

     H: That effing Therapist is supposed to fix me. Am I "Fixed?" Well, Am I? (yelling at the top of his lungs)

     Me: I don't know about that but I do know you have made great progress. What do you think?

     H: I know I am becoming your little dog and you are trying to make me a slave. (Even more agitated)

     Me:I love you. I can see where all these changes make you feel that way but I don't think of you as a dog and I don't want a slave.

     H: You just want a robot. (Even MORE agitated)

    Me: You mean everything to me. I can see these changes are upsetting you. Changes are hard to deal with  -  and scary, too. Maybe we should talk to Doc about this.

     H: See? See? It is all about YOU and Doc !

At this point he tossed some paperwork on the floor and stormed out.

Any advise on how I could have handled this better? It is obvious that he is feeling pressured by something happening in Therapy right now and is very afraid.

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[boatman]

Hi-

I think you did great. You reflected and validated his emotions rather than arguing over the logistics of therapy. It seems like he was hell bent on being mad no matter what you did. I think you are right when you say that something in therapy is striking a nerve with him. His behavior is probably just a defense mechanism. 

[iluminati]

I think you did OK for someone new, but I think you need to back off a bit more and give him room to express himself.  Obviously, he's feeling a way about therapy.  You just need to let him say it so you can move on with your life.  Here's how I would have handled that convo.  (With my ideas in bold, of course.)

     H: I don't even know WHY I am going to Therapy. There is no goal to it.

     Me: It is hard to do something for so long and feel good about if if you feel that there is no goal, isn't it?

     H: That effing Therapist is supposed to fix me. Am I "Fixed?" Well, Am I? (yelling at the top of his lungs)

     Me: How do you feel since going to the therapist?  How would you judge where you're at?

     H: I know I am becoming your little dog and you are trying to make me a slave. (Even more agitated)

     Me: Why do you believe that I am trying to make you slave?

     H: You just want a robot. (Even MORE agitated)

    Me: Why do you think I want a robot?

     H: See? See? It is all about YOU and Doc !

    Me: Why do you believe it is about me and the doc?

Here's why I structured the above this way.  People with BPD have one heck of a time expressing their feelings without taking the temperature of the people around them and tailoring their responses to either what they feel the people want to hear from them or what won't get them hurt.  The way to stop that instinct and get them to say what they feel is to just ask.  Don't put any judgments, don't put any opinions, don't put any spin.  Just ask, follow up as proper, shut up and listen.

In my experience, Yogi Berra was right; you can learn a lot from listening.  Apparently, he feels a certain way about the therapist, notably that you and the doc want to turn him into a robot.  For one, he may feel triggered by some stuff that going on in therapy, and the only way you'll know is to ask.  Two, people with BPD have a tendency to view behavior by nons as robotic, in my experience.  They feel that their expressions of emotion are normal, and most people are just horribly repressed in their emotions.  That is their opinion, and while you don't have to agree, you do have to respect it.  Still, you have to go through the process and actually speak to your husband.  Talk to him, don't talk at him.

[gina louise]

 iluminati

this helps me understand why many conversations went south even with validation that seemed appropriate.

I can't speak for Dazed here, but my HUSBAND had pronounced NPD traits (if not co-morbid NPD) and the question WHY would set him off. If I asked it more than once or twice it would spiral him into an instant rage.

Is there any other way to frame a WHY question without triggering an already upset person?

I would try to ask "what makes you feel that (insert his feeling) way? and it was no better.

My HUSBAND was consistently unable to express /explain his feelings other than projecting them as blame or an attack on me. He would become insanely frustrated with any "why" or "how come" questions, and lash out that obviously I wasn't listening, as usual.

It made our communication very tricky and difficult.

thanks,

GL

[iluminati]

In my experience, if someone expresses rage or extreme fear at a why question, it is because they believe that the answer will either upset you or put them in danger.  Let's face it.  If someone feels attacked, they will defend themselves.  If they're trying to defend themselves from expressing their feelings, it is because they feel that the feeling will leave them vulnerable. 

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[waverider]

Agree try not to provide answers, that can invalidate their ungrounded insecurities but rather stick to asking them to expand on their thoughts.

Sometimes trying to validate can be invalidating if you know what I mean.

[patientandclear]

And yet, I too have had the experience that my pwBPD does not repond well to "why" questons about his feelings. I think it's because he doesn't know, and that feels bad to him.

[myself]

Harder to look into a mirror when you're used to projecting so much.

[LetItBe]

And yet, I too have had the experience that my pwBPD does not repond well to "why" questons about his feelings. I think it's because he doesn't know, and that feels bad to him.

I've seen this in the past, too.  Asking why he felt anger coming up for him only led to more confusion and dysregulation on his part.  I think he felt judged for his feelings.

[elemental]

Asking mine why leads inevitably to a nasty hurtful response that is absolutely intended to be unhelpful, usually its something to the effect of "Because I am a selfish egocentric peice of crap."

Used to kind of shock me, now I just feel depressed and sad about it or say "ok".

[iluminati]

Asking mine why leads inevitably to a nasty hurtful response that is absolutely intended to be unhelpful, usually its something to the effect of "Because I am a selfish egocentric peice of crap."

Used to kind of shock me, now I just feel depressed and sad about it or say "ok".

Believe it or not, that can a useful answer.  Not exactly one that's dripping full of positivity, but at times, the truth itself can be bracing.  The key is knowing that someone is selfish, what do you want to do?  Do you want to feed the selfishness?  Do you want to run?  You have to figure out how to engage with such a mindset.  Also, you have to ready to hear the truth.  Do you want the truth or something to validate your own needs?

[DazedButNotConfused]

Sorry I didn't reply sooner  -  MY life got in the way! :-)

I DO see what is being said about asking "Why?" questions and understand how it MAY help the pwBPD to express themselves but I, too, have found that asking "why?" escalates the problem. I have always assumed it is because my dBPHh does not have the ability to answer the "whys" of anything he is feeling at the time of an outburst.

He once told me that things just fly out of his mouth (he actually said he could see this happening, like he is outside his body. He went further to say that at the same time he is doing it, he wants to grab all the words back!). This is one of the reasons that I know longer ask "why?" but rather make short, to the point, statements.

Hey, I don't know if it is the best way to do things in all situations with a pwBPD but, after 3+ years of knowing what was happening with my H, it seems to work with us. Asking a "why" questions at times of disregulation for my H is like asking a blind man to tell me what the sunrise looks like  -  and to keep asking is just an exercize in futility which frustrates us both.