Need advise- dd finds new friends

[jellibeans]

I need advise because I am not sure how to proceed.

An old friend of my dd15 texted me last night to tell me the new friend that my dd is hanging with are not good. They are partiers and there is a boy that is interested in my dd that has not be nice to previous girlfriends. I am happy my daughter has some new friends but I am worried about what they are doing when they are away from my home. The old friend might feel like she was slighted and that is why she has told me but I do think she is concerned for dd.

My only thought was to insist her new friends come to my home to sleepover. I have meet acouple of them and have meet one mother but I have not meet all of their parents so I really don't know if they keep a close watch on the kids when they are in their home.

I know this sounds like a pretty stupid problem and many of you probably already are thinking jesus why can't this mom get it together but I am wondering if I should just continue and let her make her mistakes... .  let her make her poor choices? When does she learn from these kind of experiences? She asked me this morning what I was like at her age... .  did I drink?... did I do drugs? ... .  was I a good kid? I wasn't very honest with her... .  at her age I was a big partier... .  drinking and skipping school... .  it was probably my worse age... .  but I don't want her to know that... .  any advise would be appreciated... .  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

Hello jellibeans,

I don't think this is a stupid problem... .  common amongst teens potentially dangerous for a BPDteen who doesn't have boundaries for self.

Your approach to allow contact in a safe environment is very wise. 

When my d wants to "hang out" with people I don't know, it is allowed a. in my home, b. in a public place, c. in the home of another trusted adult

If none of these options are acceptable to my daughter then we go with option d. "no"

When the whining and complaining is finished, when she is done blaming me I reiterate

options a-c... .  we negotiate on HOW to make one of the options work... .  It becomes her responsibility to work it out... .  I give her the power to decide.

For example, Saturday she wanted a ride to her Bf's house in town, Dad and I were in the middle of a big project.  She didn't ask either of us to stop what we were doing to meet her need... .  she tried to find other options.

In the end... .  she found a guy friend to give her a ride to town... .  a guy friend we don't know... .  she promised he is a good driver.

My answer:  "I know you are trying to solve this for yourself and that's good. I appreciate that you didn't want to ask us to stop our project to help you out. The problem is that I don't know this person.  I don't trust complete strangers with your safety and well being.  I will give you a ride myself rather than take a chance.  Be ready to go in one hour."

She was very appreciative and got the message... .  it is not that my parents want to control me, it is not that my parents don't trust me, it is not that my parents are selfish, it is not that my parents don't care about my needs... .  it is about my safety.

How can you communicate that message to your daughter... .  without degrading these other young people?  Focus on her well being and your concern about that.

Warning:  Being a caring and negotiating wisemind parent will cost  you in time, energy, food bills and gasoline!

[jellibeans]

Thank you... .  yes I will go this route... .  but I have now an added problem.

Becaue of my worry I went and searched her room today and found a home made bong and lighter... .  I am not pretty sure she will not be hanging out with these kids unless they come to our home. She is going to be pissed but I am a bit worried she will take offense to me searching her room... .  hate to ask again but can you tell I really am walking on eggshells here... .  things have been so good at our home recently and I guess it was all an illusion... .  

[lbjnltx]

Sorry to hear that drugs are a problem as well.

There are 2 schools of thought on the searching of rooms... .  they are entitled to their privacy and you are responsible for them... .  these two need to meet in the middle.

The fact is that if she were living a life of transparency and if that transparency promoted a level of trust you would not be searching her room.

It will be up to you to keep the focus on the real problem... .  drug use.

She will no doubt focus her anger on the invasion of privacy... .  diverting away from what she is responsible for.

What would you like to do know concerning the drug paraphenalia?

I suggest that whatever the consequences are they be very closely bound to the problem.

[jellibeans]

yes that will be the real test to keep the conversation focused on the problem... .  she will be angry... .  

I think I am lucky to have found the drug stuff because now it will be easy to say that for a period of time her friends need to come to our home. she will be grounded for a time until she can earn the trust back again. I know this will upset her but she is welcomed to having her friends over here where I can keep an eye on them.

Thanks lbjnitx... .  i am fearful to make the wrong move... .  terrified in fact... .  not looking forward to picking her up from school.

[lbjnltx]

How will your d "earn trust" while grounded?

[momontherun]

I know this sounds like a pretty stupid problem and many of you probably already are thinking jesus why can't this mom get it together but I am wondering if I should just continue and let her make her mistakes... .  let her make her poor choices? When does she learn from these kind of experiences? She asked me this morning what I was like at her age... .  did I drink?... did I do drugs? ... .  was I a good kid? I wasn't very honest with her... .  at her age I was a big partier... .  drinking and skipping school... .  it was probably my worse age... .  but I don't want her to know that... .  any advise would be appreciated... .  

Not at all - your concern is extremely valid. Giving her ammunition against you isn't wise although its hard to "side step" those questions. When my dd15 brought those up to me I simply told her that was a tough time in my life as it is for many teens. I made my mistakes and I had to live with them as you will too... .  for each person it is different but I will be here to help however I can if you'll let me. This seemed to satisfy her until the accusations came that I was high as a reasoning for my patience not able to see I am a cautious thinker. I admitted I had tried it when I was younger but I don't do it, don't like it nor have the money for it. I believe in being a positive role model and given that I won't do anything I don't want my kids to do. Little did I know she was told by my pot head sister that I was a major party-er at her age - while true I didn't want her to know that. So the accusations came which I in turn got defensive then took the attitude - believe what you want, I am not arguing this. When I smelled it in her room, I called her on it. Of course she denied it as she wouldn't in my home only to get caught - I took her at her word then still bothering me while she was at school a few days later, I searched her room not finding anything yet knowing it had to be there somewhere.

Unfortunately, when I did find it her whole web of deceit and secrecy was crashing down around us all at once. After I confronted her on the other things (secret boyfriend, sneaking out, made up pregnancy scare, theft) I went numb - she knew she was caught with no way out. I was beyond the point of the why/how/when's and called the troopers making a report for the theft and pot. To me, this reinforced my position that it is not ok nor will I tolerate it - the authorities can figure out her punishment.

She did try the violation of privacy thing - I just looked at her and told her I am scared, I had to do something to find out what was going on with you especially after discovering this other stuff - how can we keep you safe from yourself? Then she gave me her blade which was a great start - blew me away she was ready to si again and all I could do was thank her... .  we didn't speak for the rest of the night.

Making the report to the troopers, to me, wasn't enough - the high school had to know so she couldn't play poor me again like the previous year. So I took her to school and confronted her counselor and volleyball coaches (she signed a contract to stay drug free while on the team)- they had been watching her and the boy she was getting her stuff from and her middle school counselor called the new one to see how she was doing a couple weeks before so they already had an idea. By this time she could care less about the pot and theft only about the boy she could no longer see... .  this was her undoing.

I am clearly not in a position to give advice just understanding. I keep hearing over and over again with pwBPD "tough love" doesn't work - "natural consequences" do which I am an advocate of yet I am not sure as in my case it didn't pan out so well then again we wouldn't have received her diagnosis at this point either. Which raises a much needed question- what is the difference between tough love and natural consequences? I'll start a new thread on it so its not taking away from this one.

Please keep us updated - we are here for you

[simenora]

About searching rooms. I just spent 20 hours in emergency again. This was the 5th OD for DD16. Yes I am very concerned. Found an empty scotch and rum bottle and 2 kitchen knives as well as a pocket knife. I can no longer keep her safe. She also has extreme attention seeking behaviors more reminiscent of HPD than BPD but I understand they can have both at the same time. Part of the behavior involves 8 to ten page rants designed to shock and disturb. I don't read anything she writes anymore. I don't make a big deal about the stuff in her room, I just keep removing it.

[jellibeans]

update... .  well I picked up dd15 from school to take her to group therapy. I bought her some dinner on the way and we when got there to her appointment I took the oportunity to confront her about the bong I found in her room. She began to get angry and upset. she was going to get out of the car and go into the appointment early but I asked for her phone so she stayed so she could text. she of course swears it is from a long time ago and that she is not doing drugs right now. She said I could test her and I told her I had already bought the test and we could do it later when we got home.

While she is in Therapy I call the mom of the one girl to ask about this past weekend and how I suspected they really didn't go to a movie. I wanted to know if she knew these other girls well or not. She agrees to talk to her daughter and get back to me.

DD15 comes out of therapy and we begin to discuss the bong again. She is angry that I don't beleive her. We don't say a whole lot the rest of the way home. When we get home we do the drug test. The rapid test part comes out negative but I tell her it is not 100% until we send it away to the lab. We will get the final result in a week. I leave her alone and go downstairs.

This is when the firends mother call me back to tell me what her daughter had said. Turns out they didn't go to a movie... .  her friends says that they where picked up by two boys and they went to the park and hung out for the evening. I go back to my dd15 and ask her to please tell me what see really did this past friday night. She sticks to her story and won't budge. She lies repeatedly to my face. I am calm. I ask for her phone and resists giving it to me. She wants to negotiate. I am firm and ask for the phone and tell her if she doesn't give it to me now that I will cancel it and it will be a very long time before she gets it back. She throws it at the wall and I pick it up and leave.

Now it is time to take her evening meds... .  which she refuses to take... .  I try to tell her it is not good to miss a dose but she is laying on her bed face down and not speaking to myself or my husband. I go call her doctor to see what ill effect this might cause. I am told not to worry that missing one dose it not going to be the end of the world. While I am on the phone she heads down stairs and decides to leave. I call to her to come home and we can talk and she tell me to go ~ myself. I tell her if she doesn't come home I wil call the police and make a run away report.

I call the police and they come to the house and take all the information... .  then leave to go look for her. Once they are gone she comes home and I call the police again to tell them she is home. They ask her if she is going to hurt herself and she says no. They leave without really saying much else.

I go to my room and she follow me there to talk. We talk a long time and she comes clean about what she had done this past weekend... .  or at least this is what she says... .  I really don't beleive for a minute I have the whole story. She doesn't have her phone and she is grounded and not going any where this weekend.

What a fun filled night... .  not sure I did the right thing... .  should I have insisted the police take her to juvie? should I have given the bong to them?

Here is what I am thankful for... .  she didn't self harm... .  she told me she wanted to punch the mirror in her room because she was so mad at herself but she didn't. I told her I was proud of that.

I told her I didn't like being told to f off and she says she was just mad at herself. I told her it wasn't fair to take that out on me. It was her poor choices that had gotten her to this point. She was sorry. She was able to calm herself down more quickly and didn't get agressive to the point of being physical with myself or my husband.

So what have we learned... .  what should I have done better... .  I actually consider this to be a successful night but I know I could have done better. I am happy that I stayed calm and anger free. My husband on the other hand needed to be reeled in a couple of times. He is no help to me.

Any feedback is welcomed... .  please don't worry about hurting my feelings... .  If you have any suggestions about what I could hae done differently I welcome them... .  or any help going forward... .  

One question... .  I tried to text and call her therapist but she never responded. I am reading Valeries Porr book right now and it describes a different kind of DBT... one where the therapist is available for phone consults? Does anyone have one of these mythical therapist? Should I expect that from her therapist. Goodnight... .  I will update tomorrow... .  

[momontherun]

jellibeans what a night! You are so very brave and strong woman for keeping cool, calm and collected through it all. So many things to be thankful for - she didn't self harm, you reinforced what you told her ie leaving = call cops, you both talked about your feelings, she was able to de-escalate, she is safe and you found out more information on her "real" happenings to name a few.

Of course, that doesn't take away from the fact of worrying and wondering... .  I would have given the bong to them in front of her as a reinforcement you take this very seriously. I think asking to send her to juvie would be a bit extreme for today as she didn't attack you, destroy your property etc.

From here, I don't know... .  let things calm down a bit and bring up to her T to discuss with her how the choices she is making is putting herself in harms way and if she isn't honest where she is at/doing, you cannot protect her, how she feels about it, how you would feel if something happened to her not knowing what/how, what she could have done differently? 

I do know for now take care of yourself, count these small blessings and get some rest 

[jellibeans]

I barely have the nervy to type this... .  seriously this has been the day from hell. I foolishly thought that it was all over... .  that all I needed to do was to tell the other mother of what really happened that night and all would be good. I didn't realize I was dealing with that mother that doesn't thinks her daughter lies and comes upset and defensive when told anything different.

So these girls have thrown my dd under the bus... .  they have banded together and swear they didn't go to any party... .  Remy's friend came and picked them up and they went to the park. Remy is being accused of telling a lie about the party... .  really... .  she tells me the truth and confesses that she went to a party when they really went to the park? really... .  now these girls have shunned her and my daughter will be devastated that once again she is losing her friends even though they are new... .  really does it get any better... .  my daughter doesn't have her phone because I don't want her heart broken by these girls... .  I am not sure she can take it again since her friends in the fall cyber bullied her and she had to change schools... .  and use those girls

I am at my lowest tonight... .  really at a point of such despair... .  my heart hurts for her... .  how do I tell her and how do I help her deal with the rejection... .  helppppppp

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[cfh]

jellibeans

You are hurting so much and so is your dd.  Sometimes there are no words.  Would dd let you go in her room, sit on her bed and hold her?

She must be feeling so alone and so maybe she would let you just hug her.  The words can come at another time.

Just a thought.

I remember so many times when my ds was younger.  He had no friends but wanted them so badly and was often tricked into thinking someone liked him.

There wasn't really anything I could say to take the hurt away but he used to let me sit on his bed and say nothing.

[vivekananda]

jellibeans, my heart goes out to you. It is such a hurtful place to be. You try so hard to do the right thing and sh#t hits the fan. I think you did the right thing. Based on my experience of my dd adolescence quite some years ago now.

Saying nothing is better than saying something wrong. You could say that frineds that will be like that are not real friends anyway, they would gang up sooner or later. It is just sooner than we thought... .  

Does her grounding prohibit going to the movies with you and dh? Can you plan activities to keep her occupied in other ways? Give her something to look forward to... .  

Cheers,

Vivek    

[jellibeans]

I am just seeing the earlier post about grounding from lbjntx... .  and Vivek anada's new posts about it as well... .  

grounded doesn't mean she can't have someone over... .  I had told her if things went well this week she can have this other friend over... .  I just mean she will not be going to other people's homes for a while... .  that I feel she needs to have her friends here. She really doesn't have any so it is a problem.

She will eventually get to go out but she will need to earn that... .  and I will need to feel that she is going some where that parents keep an eye on their kids... .  

I have not hugs her but I have been trying to comfort her as she is not well and came home from school early... .  I am sure all this drama has something to do with how she is feeling... .  she has been sleeping all day and has been sleeping all night... .  I will see if she feels better in the morning but I can bet you she won't go to school tomorrow... .  I am nervous about how things will go... .  will she try to blame me for this mess by saying if I just didn't search her room... .  if I just didn't call her friends mother... .  I see trouble on the horizon

[lbjnltx]

Hello jellibeans,

I feel so sad for your d... .  teenage girls can be so darn mean spirited.

When things like this would happen to my d she would react the same way... .  and sadly she will blame some of this on you.

All you can really do is be there for her, let her know you feel she is brave for being honest.

If you can redirect her towards other things... .  perhaps some interest that you both have... .  for us it was the horses... .  all I had to do was go out to the round pen with lunge line and my d would soon follow... .  her dad could get out some paper and charcoal and when she saw him with it she would get her own paper and begin to draw... .  Of course if we asked her "do you want to... .  with me?" the answer would have been "NO!"...

If she has an old friend... .  one from her earlier years that she still stays in semi contact with maybe you could ask her mom to ask the girl to give your d a call... .  just to chat.

As far as the incident with the police... .  I have walked that same road... .  it may take time for your d to learn not to break that boundary... .  it took several calls like that with trips to the sheriff's dept for my d to begin to "get it".  As momontherun said... .  juvy would have been out of order and btw... .  not a place for our sensitive girls... .  more harm than good.

Don't be afraid to show your d you are sad too.

Validate her pain when you have a chance... .  it will help her process her emotions.

 

lbj

[jellibeans]

Thank you ibjntx for your reply... .  it really means the world to me... .  everyone has such good advise and when things are bad it is hard to see clearly and I allow myself to get low... .  thank you again... .  I will talk with her about having her friend over this weekend and hope that will give her something to look forward to.

I will do all that you suggest and hope that she comes through okay... .  it is the roller coaster ride that I can't seem to get use to... .  the ups and downs... .  thanks again... .  

[jellibeans]

Well I took her to school today and we talked a bit about what happened. I told her I was proud of her that she told the truth. I told I was sad that her friends are treating her so poorly. I tried to say all the right things but wehn we got to the school she was crying and she turned to me and asked... .  why does this always happen to me? broke my heart... .  I gave her a big hug and off she went.

I am trying to keep things in prespective... .  I tried to point out to her that she still has one good friend and we can invite her over this weekend... .  I hope she can make it through the day... .  she is devastated and so I am I. She has therapy tomorrow and I hope her T can talk to her and help her heal from this all... .  I am taking a me day and resting as much as I can... .  

[lbjnltx]

You did well jellibeans

 

lbj

[opheliasmom]

Hello jellibeans,

I agree with everything lbjnltx and Vive have said.  You are holding up well.  I will keep my story short and I tell it not to scare you but with the hope that you take some pressure off of yourself by understanding how little control we have sometimes.  My dwpd went to rehab for the first time when she was 14 and twice more after that.  She started smoking pot at 13 and by this summer she was using heroin and I made her leave my home.  She is 19 now. She is back at home and allegedly not using.  I have been through all that you have just described, and would not tell you to change anything you are doing. My wish for myself was that I had been more aware of my own inability to exert control.  When I thought my daughter was home she was exiting through a rear window, when the school officials were made aware of her drug use and supposed to be monitoring her movements she was manipulating them and they didn't know where she was.  She manipulated the police when she had an accident while she was under the influence of inhalants.  I could go on and on... .  

It took me a long while and a lot of Al Anon to realize that short of handcuffing myself to her I could not supervise every minute of her day.  Please continue to do the best you can but always remember so many things can not be controlled. I hope things get better for you  

[momontherun]

   

[jellibeans]

I want to thank everyone for their advise... .  really I am would not get through some of these days without this group.

I wanted to tell you my dd is good... .  she is coping well... .  she seems fine tonight and has moved on. I keep telling her how proud I am of her and thanking her for telling the truth. Those girls were not friends to her and they chose to save themselves and throw you under the bus. Encouraged her to choose more carefully next time. Look for people with better character and not into partying. She is good and I believe is ready to move on and leave them behind.

I also total her not to share her mental history with new friends... .  the one girls father insinuated that my daughter mental illness made her the guilty party and the obvious liar which make no sense. My daughter told the truth that they went to a party but their kids said they went to the park... .  they could only accept the park story... .  incredible... .  thank you again... .  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[peaceplease]

jellibeans,

I hope your dd finds some true friends.  I can remember how much it hurt when my dd was having a tough time with peers.   It is such a difficult time - being a teenager!

I can remember the dad of my dd's best friend.  I notified them of our girls being responsible for egging a neighbor's house.  The dad's response was - "Nobody can prove it.  There were no witnesses."  The other girl was mad at my dd for confessing the truth.  Mad at me for telling her parents, however, she recieved no consequences, anyways.  I was hoping they would agree to pitch in for cleaning bill.  Anyways, as far as the friend went, my dd saw it as "good riddance" too.

I hope your dd finds some kind friends.  

peaceplease

[jellibeans]

Thank you peace I hope she will too... .  but I am not sure kind and teenage girls can go in the same sentence.