Did your BPDSO cheat therapy and you?

[SuperWaz]

My BPDSO is undergoing therapy, has admitted to some really horrendous acts and thoughts, and is generally making all the right noises with regards to a recovery.

However, I'm still terrified that she's just taking it as far as she needs to in order to get me to stay.  It's eating me up inside. 

I'm wondering if anyone else has been in a similar situation and what the outcome was. 

Did your BPDSO act and say everything right and ultimately slip back to their old ways?  If so, what were the signs when you look back at it that should have set the alarm bells ringing?

[Somewhere]

As part of re-hab she was/is supposed to be doing therapy.

Dodging it fairly crafty, so far.

The idiot T at the Re-hab was trying to set it up so that she would not the "No Money" excuse for skipping T.  Ok.  So they set it up were I was/am supposed to responsible to pay.  I seen this crap coming.

Before she even left Re-Hab, she had called me and said she needed help scheduling T.  Ok.  I called them.  Uh-oh -- a Re-hab rules violation.  She was supposed to only schedule herself, w/o me being involved.

Next week after she got back from Re-hab she pretended I did not leave her the money.  We went down the supposed budget and she pretended she lost some hundreds of dollars -- pulling up bank records, and trying to explain that $100 + $300 = $200.  Turned out it was in her pocket.  Go figure.

That was all on the day after Christmas, with our 10 y.o. daughter watching Momma is stomping up and down in Granna's kitchen screaming I Hate You at me, because she was caught playing games with the money.

Next week I only left a blank check with a Not To Exceed amount on it.  Seemed to cash it for cash for $150.  :)id the same next week.  When I asked to see the receipt, she grabbed a piece of paper out of a book and ran into another room.  Comes out about 5 minutes later with a $75 note rubbed mostly out, and $140 double-written over it in her handwriting.  

By this point it is almost amusing.  I asked to see the 2nd week receipt.  She refused but now declared she would need to find a new T, since I may know who it was/is.  Ok.  Real deal, I already knew she was dumping that T because the T had already acknowledged she had/has Borderline Traits.

So she switched T's again.  Now she may have found one dumber than her that will only work on "Addiction Issues."  Great.  Repeat after me -- IAMNOTABPD, IAMNOTABPD.  Ok.  Ought to work out great.

[SuperWaz]

I feel for you.  She sounds like she's not even accepting she has a problem.  My SO at least seems to want help, but I just have no idea what's in her head at any given time.

Keep fighting the fight.  My thoughts are with you.

[Mike_confused]

I suspect my BPD wife's Medical Doctor has her own suspicions as to the underlying causes of my wife constant, continuous and never ending afflictions.  I don't want her to be sick - I do have a major issue with her making a career out of it though.

She is in therapy ostensibly to deal with issues from her childhood mistreatment at the hands of her NPD mother.  It sounds like therapy has switched from that to bashing me... .  "MIKE BAD" is her new therapy topic.   I am told the therapist specializes in NPD, so I HOPE she has some experience with BPD as well.  If she talks to my BPD wife long enough I pray that she filters out the BS from my wife's side of things to realize that BPD exists in her behavior.

Or not.  I cannot control it.  I am hiding in the woods waiting for the fallout.

[HardDaysNight]

Yes SuperWaz in both MC and with her own T.

Her T, from what I can tell has been successful in taking her from waif/suicidal BPD to queen BPD (w/NPD traits).  In MC she first denies the horrendous act occurred, if that doesn't work she says she didn't say exactly that, when that doesn't work (because I often have her own words or other records), she denies that it is horrendous and I must be ultrasensitive to take it that way, thus, I am the one with the problem who needs counseling. 

Examples of my ultrasensitivity: her saying she should leave and find a real man in front of the kids, telling me I should just go kill myself in front of the kids, her screaming at me and pointing her finger in my face "I don't f*ing care what you think!" (kids in the next room trying to sleep) (after she promised to the MC no screaming fights in front of the kids) when discussing summer camps and my view on them (believe me nothing earth shattering).

I think the real keys on the road to recovery is first owning up to the horrendous acts, then second truly making amends by actions in addition ot words. In the end recovery from the nons point of view is the pwBPD resepcting you as you, being able to give instead of just take.  In a word actions.  The actions need to change. A whole string of the right words is just mere platitudes.

BPDs, and NPDs especially, excell at saying things in a socially acceptable way, to package their words as action, even if the content of what they say is hurtful and their actions behind closed doors do not change.

[Mike_confused]

HardDaysNight... .  

Your post struck a chord ... .  she said many times she would go find another man if, if... .  if I didn't stop neglecting her, didn't stop hasseling her about money... .  you name it.  The threat was constant.   

[waverider]

BPDs, and NPDs especially, excell at saying things in a socially acceptable way, to package their words as action, even if the content of what they say is hurtful and their actions behind closed doors do not change.

This is why they make excellent sales people who will not flinch in their drive to convince you with the unbelievable.

[SuperWaz]

Thanks for the responses.  I guess you just have to hope that they are doing it right and take the leap of faith or leave.

My problem is that she is a master of lying, like most borderlines are.  She convinced everyone she was a great girlfriend/mother, and had another boyfriend the whole time to whom she gave everything, while convincing me that what I got (nothing, emotionally or sexually) was simply the best she had to offer.  She even convinced the rape crisis teams, police and everyone else that she was raped... It was a truly academy award winning period of her life.

There isn't a moment of the day that I want to be away from this pain and uncertainty.  I deserve better.  We all do.

[Mike_confused]

I am away from her for 13 days now... .  at my safe haven in the woods.  She refuses to come here.  Thank God.

As I understand it, the fear of abandonment grows worse over time with BPD's; I on the other hand was prepared for such an eventually.  Even though I was saddened and upset by having to leave, that was short lived.  I feel so much better and she senses this.  She is now trying to re-engage me in seemingly mundane conversations.  I know the topic of the conversation matters not, just the fact that she now wants to talk to me at length.

I still have 6 cords of firewood in the shed which should last until mid-spring. 

[Mike_confused]

A note of explanation to anyone not from the north country... .  having enough firewood in the shed implies that I can stay where I am at and maybe outlast her.

[SuperWaz]

I hope it works out for you Mike_confused.  I just wish I had a big neon sign on her head that could tell me, (a) that she is taking her therapy seriously, and (b) it's me that she really wants.

Sadly without either, it seems most people with BPD partners are just in for a terribly painful life of extreme roller coaster rides.

[Mike_confused]

Get this... .  therapy must be working... .  apparently she has her therapist convinced that I HAVE BPD... .  she said to me in a txt today... .  "you have a past of hurt and pain and you seem to take most of that out on me.  I feel as if I am always WALKING ON EGGSHELLS... .  ".     She did say she wants to go forward without some of the same behaviors.

I think I have been projected upon.  My head spins... .  

[thinkingthinking]

When I finally said "counseling or we're splitting", my then undiagnosed BPDh would say all of the right things, think he was changed, and then tell everyone how much he had changed.  But his behavior outside the counseling office was the same as always.  It was like he was a master-of-disguise. When I did finally call him out on some things in front of the counselor, his rage would come out.

Unfortunately, manipulation is a "skill" they have.  Having an experienced counselor is key.

[Mike_confused]

I agree with the manipulation.  What she said to me is too word for word out of the BPD text books, so she has discussed it with her therapist.   It is classic projection.

I am also in the midst of dealing her reaction to her fear of engulfment - its been two weeks since I have seen her.   Everything is my fault of course.   She wants a divorce, for now at least.

My question to you folks here is:  have you encountered a friend of the pwBPD that has tremendous influence over her/him?  I have that situation.   I am not the one with the influence of course.

[SuperWaz]

I agree with the manipulation.  What she said to me is too word for word out of the BPD text books, so she has discussed it with her therapist.   It is classic projection.

I am also in the midst of dealing her reaction to her fear of engulfment - its been two weeks since I have seen her.   Everything is my fault of course.   She wants a divorce, for now at least.

My question to you folks here is:  have you encountered a friend of the pwBPD that has tremendous influence over her/him?  I have that situation.   I am not the one with the influence of course.

My BPDSO let everyone but me have the influence.  Essentially, anyone that could feed the negative or positive attention seeking.  As soon as the food ran out, she moved on to another.

[waverider]

My question to you folks here is:  have you encountered a friend of the pwBPD that has tremendous influence over her/him?  I have that situation.   I am not the one with the influence of course.

Thats just the triangulation (read definition) need, find a rescuer, sell their story, to validate their own view point.

Cant stop it, just ignore it.

[SuperWaz]

When I finally said "counseling or we're splitting", my then undiagnosed BPDh would say all of the right things, think he was changed, and then tell everyone how much he had changed.  But his behavior outside the counseling office was the same as always.  It was like he was a master-of-disguise. When I did finally call him out on some things in front of the counselor, his rage would come out.

Unfortunately, manipulation is a "skill" they have.  Having an experienced counselor is key.

This is the thing that worries me.  I could now potentially invest all my time and energy in a second relationship with my SO for the kids, only for her to completely fool me once again. 

I don't think I will ever hear the true thoughts and feelings she has.  She'll rather read a thousand BPD articles and quote them verbatim.

[Mike_confused]

Waz,

I understand your dilemma.  How do you know if she is actively engaged in the therapy, or instead is putting up a front, using all the "buzz words" to suggest to the therapist that she is making progress?

I am experiencing the same situation right now.  BPD wife is in therapy to deal with the long term effects of a severely NPD mother and sex abuse as a child by a family friend.   According to the BPD wife, therapy has now morphed from its initial topic to her dealing with me.  She is now using phrases such as "walking on eggshells" in the context of how she feels around me.   Just great.   She projected her behaviors onto me.  At least I know the truth.  The only interesting thing she said - in a text message - was that she does not want to continue some behaviors.  I suspect that my BPD wife's therapist is on to the wife's BPD symptoms but has not dropped that bomb yet.  

To sum it up, I personally don't know how any of us can tell if our BPD spouses are making a sincere effort in therapy without getting back in the game with them.

I am afraid to play again, personally.

[Mike_confused]

a typo  correction to my above post... .  I suspect that my BPD wife's therapist is on to the wife's BPD symptoms but has not dropped that bomb yet.

[BentNotBroken]

Yep. She went to a counselor and told him how horribly I used and abused her for over 15 years. He ate it up. She came home and raged at me after every session then stopped going, saying she couldn't afford the co-pay. Her ridiculous shopping sprees after therapy session cost hundreds of dollars every week. Co-pay was $15.

She was not good at math.

Her new counselor validates her abuse fantasy stories and agrees that she should continue to "speak out" against me. Never laid a finger on her, never threatened her, and it took hours of her abuse for me to even raise my voice to tell her to stop. I am the monster, her therapist said so... .  

Fortunately the custody evaluator (PhD forensic psychologist) spotted the low self-esteem, selfishness, emotional immaturity, and anger issues. He didn't make a diagnosis, as he normally doesn't for custody evals, but strongly recommended therapy for those issues.

[Somewhere]

Yep. She went to a counselor and told him how horribly I used and abused her for over 15 years. He ate it up. She came home and raged at me after every session then stopped going, saying she couldn't afford the co-pay. Her ridiculous shopping sprees after therapy session cost hundreds of dollars every week. Co-pay was $15.

Slow down a second -- you were getting those "stories" from her, right?

More likely -- The T figured things out, and started saying so -- so she had to come home and rage you at to validate the reversi story she was trying to sell to the T.  When the T did not buy any of it, she quit.

Does that not more likely match the picture of what was going on if you turned the words off?  Just asking.

She was not good at math.

omigod.  

Math does not have feelings, feelilngs, feelings, only.  

Sad comedy lately aroud here, too.

Her new counselor validates her abuse fantasy stories and agrees that she should continue to "speak out" against me. Never laid a finger on her, never threatened her, and it took hours of her abuse for me to even raise my voice to tell her to stop. I am the monster, her therapist said so... .  

Yeah, sure, sure, THAT had to be what the T said.  In some fantasy cooked up on the way home . . . .  

Let me guess -- you have never met and never talked with the T, but somehow the T knows and has said all these about you . . . at least according to the storyline.

Fortunately the custody evaluator (PhD forensic psychologist) spotted the low self-esteem, selfishness, emotional immaturity, and anger issues. He didn't make a diagnosis, as he normally doesn't for custody evals, but strongly recommended therapy for those issues.

As would any competent T.

And yeah, NO ONE wants to even whisper the name -- BPD.

[Mike_confused]

My BPD wife is not good at math either.  She continually berated me for my handling of money - I did just fine - while she had several hundred dollars of copays PER WEEK.  Some went to the therapist.  Some went for MD visits for one of her myriad of phantom illnesses.  By the way, she stopped working a year before we married.  I am a fool for not seeing all of this coming.

I am told I am brilliant by many people in my profession, but I don't feel this way at all.  I DO FEEL like an absolute moron for not seeing the signs, including the likelihood that I was intended to be her financial support.

We attended marriage counseling together until she hijacked it after 10 sessions.   She announced in the middle of this session that I had done nothing to earn her trust.   I walked out and did not go back.  Now that I think about it, one of my biggest issues with her is that she usually speaks to me as if I am no different that her two teenagers.  Very condescending, as if she needs to teach me everything.  I do not suffer it well.  I remind her I am an adult and have earned my keep in this world.   It goes down hill from there.

I am Waaaaayyy off topic now, but now that I think further,  I take it on the chin every time one of her brilliant teenagers does something wrong or not up to standards (they are failing half their classes).  She clearly coddles them and rips into me for ANYTHING, almost as if criticizing them proves her to be an imperfect mother.


Two and a half weeks without seeing her.   For some reason, many of the aches and pains I was feeling have gone away... .  

[BentNotBroken]

The fabricated abuse stories were verified to be in the therapists notes by the GAL for our son. No mention of her violent, abusive rages or constant impulsive shopping sprees. Only that she was being abused by me for the duration of our relationship.

Sick

[SuperWaz]

Waz,

I understand your dilemma.  How do you know if she is actively engaged in the therapy, or instead is putting up a front, using all the "buzz words" to suggest to the therapist that she is making progress?

I am experiencing the same situation right now.  BPD wife is in therapy to deal with the long term effects of a severely NPD mother and sex abuse as a child by a family friend.   According to the BPD wife, therapy has now morphed from its initial topic to her dealing with me.  She is now using phrases such as "walking on eggshells" in the context of how she feels around me.   Just great.   She projected her behaviors onto me.  At least I know the truth.  The only interesting thing she said - in a text message - was that she does not want to continue some behaviors.  I suspect that the therapist has suspicions about my with having BPD but has not dumped all that in the BPD wife's lap at this point. 

To sum it up, I personally don't know how any of us can tell if our BPD spouses are making a sincere effort in therapy without getting back in the game with them.

I am afraid to play again, personally.

That really does sum it up perfectly, Mike.  Like you I've played the game before and I lost in a big way.  I'm still paying heavily for that and it's likely I will continue paying for it in some way for as long as I'm still willing to take another shot.   After all, the last time I played it definitely wasn't on a level playing field and whatever happens through her therapy, I surely can't realistically expect a completely fair game in 'BPD Stadium'.

Maybe it's just time to try a new sport. 

[waverider]

I get the impression that therapy for pwBPD is far more productive once you have come to terms with what YOU can do to reduce conflict levels in the RS. If you can reduce the conflict and being the obvious target for their projections they are left with their own baggage and increases the chance of taking T seriously. Difficult I know. T is more effective in rehab mode than in detox mode.

If therapy is the first step in addressing RS problems then it just becomes another outlet to project and deny, rather than seriously owning their problems and going about fixing them

[Mike_confused]

Waverider,

I have found only one way to reduce conflict in the relationship and that is to leave.   I have been gone 2 and a half weeks.   She seems calmer and from the dribs and drabs of information I seense that the therapist has broached the BPD issue with her.   

It still sucks - the fact that she would become infuriated at me for just being me.  I never tried so hard in my life to be proper and polite and calm ... .      no wonder it never felt like home with her.  At least I had a place to go.

[waverider]

Waverider,

I have found only one way to reduce conflict in the relationship and that is to leave.   I have been gone 2 and a half weeks.   She seems calmer and from the dribs and drabs of information I seense that the therapist has broached the BPD issue with her.   

It still sucks - the fact that she would become infuriated at me for just being me.  I never tried so hard in my life to be proper and polite and calm ... .      no wonder it never felt like home with her.  At least I had a place to go.

Is she getting anywhere with therapy or is it all around constructing herself as a victim and cant move past that?

[Mike_confused]

I think she is still building herself up as a victim, health issues and whatever else she can come up with.  She is in therapy, ostensibly to deal with lifelong issues with her severely NPD mother.  She was also sexually abused at a young age by a family friend.  Based on the terms she has been throwing around, her therapist must have talked to her about BPD.  I am not sure whether my BPD wife is projecting on me to her therapist to claim I have BPD - I clearly do not - or, more likely, the therapist has gently tapdanced around a discussion of BPD regarding her.  She has used all the BPD buzzwords.

I hope that the therapist has begun to realize that the reason my lovely BPD wife has "struggled" (her favorite word) her whole life is due in large part to her illness.

I get the strong feeling that my BPD wife feels she has gone too far.  I base this on some of the messages I have had from her.

[Mike_confused]

I have not yet heard her acknowledge that she suffers from BPD.

[waverider]

T's will often treat a client as BPD without actually labelling it at such to them. Many reasons, top of that list is that it can often trigger instant denial and effective therapy ends.

Other points to keep in mind, due to a pwBPDs twisting the truth what you wife reports the T has said is often not so.

With "by the book" BPD programs there is often a whole lot of T before someone is put on these programs. This about ensuring the client is at a stage they are open to effective BPD program. It is relatively intense and requires commitment and so no point starting if they are in denial and not receptive.