Watching Her Suffer

[Confusedandhurt]

Hello Board Members,

I'd like to get your perspective on something I'm struggling with.  This board has been so helpful to me in the past and I'm so grateful.  My uBPDexgf broke up with me last July after being together for 4.5 years.  I've had a terrible time moving on since then, partly due to a lot of push/pull.  One day she would contact me and then when I respond, I get asked not to contact her.  Lately the contacts have been more frequent.  I answered her phone call yesterday, because I really needed to know why she would contact me so often after telling me not to contact her.  Her answer was two-fold.  First, she said she missed me, and second, she was hoping we could be friends.  I explained to her that I couldn't handle being friends, because of how she treated me during our relationship and because it would be too hard to be friends knowing she was sharing her bed with someone else.  When I asked about the possibility of getting back together, she said she couldn't do it, because of the fact that I have kids from a previous marriage.  Her rationale was that my kids would take too much of my time away from her!  She said that that was the reason she was breaking up with her current bf as well (he's divorced with a pre-teen who lives with his ex).  I pointed out that the love I had for her was very different than the love I had for my kids, and that she was always my first priority when we were together.  She acknowledged that I was right, but she said she couldn't handle my spending time with my kids if we got back together. 

Toward the end of the conversation, I told her as gently as I could that I needed to heal and move on, and I needed her not to contact me anymore.  It was really hard to do that, as during the phone call we both shared our feelings for each other.  She was very sincere in telling me that she still loved me.  I have such a hard time processing that, given that she has been with someone else for the past 4 months and they have been very sexually active.  Nevertheless, I know her feelings for me are very genuine.  At that point, I wished her well and said farewell.

I'm left with so many questions.  I think I know the answers based on what I'm learning from others on this board, but would appreciate your validation.  For one, why would she date and bed another guy when she's obviously still in love with me?  Is it because she can't stand to be alone and she needed the new guy to help her feel whole and needed, regardless of how she felt about me?  For another, I know she's hurting a lot right now.  Her current task is ending at work and she's very worried about finding a new task;  she knows that we cannot be friends and that I've asked her not to contact me again;  she is going to break up with her current bf, despite her telling me that he's a good guy and has tried to please her;  and she just seems to be adrift with no core identity and has no idea if she will ever meet the right person.  How do I deal with the intense desire to reach out and help her, knowing it would extend or worsen my pain?  I don't need to help everyone, but I still care for her very much and hate to see her suffer.  I told her on the phone that I had learned a great deal about her and I know the pain she is going through.  I offered to sit down and share it with her, but she declined.  I'm assuming that it's not about my kids or his kids - it's about the disorder.  It's about the fact that as she gets closer to someone, she demands his full attention 24/7, despite her spending time on the phone and in person with her girlfriends.  I further assume that as she gets closer to someone, she becomes terrified of being abandoned.

I'm struggling to convince myself that I need to move on and accept that she is gone forever.  As so many on this board have shared - she was different.  The bad times (splitting, raging, accusations, lying, cheating) were really bad.  The good times were magical and nothing I had ever experienced before.  I'm in T, and it's helping, but it's been tough with the contacts up until now.  I'm hoping not to hear from her for a long while after our conversation yesterday.

I'd appreciate any validation and perspectives.  Thanks very much in advance for allowing me the opportunity to share with this community.

 

[hithere]

Your brain seems to know all the right answers but now you just have to talk your heart into following.

I don't see an upside here for you that involves staying in contact with this woman.  She is basically asking you to choose her over your own children and then maybe you could talk her into taking you back.  But then she would find another excuse to dump you and you would have betrayed your kids and would feel horrible about yourself.  She is using you as a back-up right now and probably also using you to make her current boyfriend jealous, trying to convince him to give up his kids for her.

You need to go no contact and start moving on.  If you don't you will stay stuck and in pain for a long time.

[forgottenarm]

Hey Hurting Tiger,

You and I are on about the same timeline with very similar situations---5 year relationship, step-kids involved, ex moved on with lightening speed.  I have struggled with exactly what you described.  I can't stand to see him suffer.  I worry about him a lot.  I would never go back to him, but I miss him.  I feel very frustrated with myself a lot of the time.

So, in answer to your questions:

1. I think "love" and attachment are experienced differently by people with BPD.  When they're feeling threatened or abandoned, they'll attach quickly but I think they experience that as love.  When she's contacting you and telling you she loves you, I bet she means it.  The problem is, she's probably telling the new guy and who-knows-who-else the same thing and meaning it then, too.  In other words, your relationship may be less special to her than it is to you.

2. She will probably continue to contact you whenever she feels threatened or abandoned in her current situation.  She has no reason to stop.  She will run to you for comfort and support as long as you respond to her.  Only you can make it stop by stopping your part in it.  

3. Reasoning with her as you have will probably not change her views on things or her behavior.  If staying involved with her hurts you (and it sound like it does), then it's up to you to take measures to protect yourself.  See the situation for what it is, and guard your heart and your energy!

4. I went through several major breaks and reconciliations with my ex before the last (and what seems to be final) break.  Every time we got back together, he seemed to understand where I was coming from, he seemed to have decided that our relationship was the best thing ever, that only I truly understood him and he would do whatever it took to make it work because I was THAT important to him.  This mindset lasted about 6 months, usually.  Then he would become agitated and blow the whole thing up again.  Every time.  It was as if he needed to experience the abandonment, even though he hated and feared it.  What I learned was that I couldn't trust the relationship, no matter what he said or how things seemed when he wanted me back.  It had too much instability built in.  Realizing that has helped me stay away this time.

I'm glad to hear you're in therapy---it's helped me immensely.  Have you gotten to the bottom of your own role in this?  What makes helping her so compelling to you?

[just me.]

Whether the girl had BPD or not, I would find the message of "I DO love you, but if we were to get back together then I really couldn't handle you spending time with your own children" to be completely unacceptable.

I know (extremely well) the temptation to coddle these little wounded souls that exists inside women's bodies, but is there even a single part of you that believes she is capable of being an equal and supportive partner to you?  And to your family?

I don't see how you could possibly engage in a romantic relationship with someone that openly treats your children as competition for your attention.  If you made the decision to "prioritize" her more than your children to whatever extent she demands - then is that a decision you'd feel comfortable explaining to them someday?

[Confusedandhurt]

forgottenarm,

Thank you for the feedback.  You're right - I don't know what she's told the others, but i honestly believe her feelings for me are unlike how she feels about any other (I know how ridiculous that sounds, but I know her better than anyone else, including her family).  In the end for reasons you so graciously pointed out, it really doesn't matter how she feels about me if she continues to deny she has an issue and she isn't willing to accept me and my kids.  I would be less than honest if I didn't admit that knowing how she feels about me makes it tougher to move on.  Somehow, naively, I want to believe that love can conquer all... .  

just_me,

I absolutely agree - any emotional healthy person would gladly accept the kids of someone she loves.  She would never expect me to choose between her and my kids, but telling me essentially that her heart is not big enough for me and the kids is very telling.  I can only imagine what she might be like if she marries and has kids.  I suppose she will expect her husband to always bow at he feet at the expense of their kids!  She is yet another example of an emotional 3 year old, who can only think in black and white.  And you're right - it's completely unacceptable.

This is such new territory for me and the first pwBPD I have ever known.  I've seen such a diversity of experiences on this board, but I don't recall seeing an ex quite like mine.  While her behaviors have not been mature, she has never said one unkind thing to me since she left.  She has been very consistent in telling me how much she still cares for me in a way that doesn't seem to be a conscious attempt to keep me strung along.  Rather, she appears to me to be lost with no core identity, having given up someone who gave everything to her and someone whom she still loves.

I hope I'm not being too naive.  I have tried very hard to see things for what they truly are, but I recognize that I'm biased and damaged because of the r/s.  Thanks again for reading this and for your support!

[schwing]

Hi Confusedandhurt and 

I'd like to get your perspective on something I'm struggling with.  This board has been so helpful to me in the past and I'm so grateful.  My uBPDexgf broke up with me last July after being together for 4.5 years.  I've had a terrible time moving on since then, partly due to a lot of push/pull.  One day she would contact me and then when I respond, I get asked not to contact her.  Lately the contacts have been more frequent.  I answered her phone call yesterday, because I really needed to know why she would contact me so often after telling me not to contact her. 

The push/pulling aspect is difficult during the relationship as well as in our efforts to disengage from the relationship.  It may be helpful for you to understand that this is yet another expression of their disorder.  One day she contacts you because her emotional needs on that day is different from the next day when she asks you not to contact her.  It's a mixed message if you assume her emotional states are consistent; they are not.  At the moment she tries to reach you, that is when she needs you.  You cannot assume that she will need you later.  I would say the same of their emotional attachment to us; one instant they might need us and be attached to us.  But the minute they may find a suitable source for their need, whether or not we are that source... .  and when they don't need us, they don't "love" us.

Obviously this kind of switching back and forth between attachment and no attachment is not very compatible for people who are not so disordered.  We'd like to have a certain degree of commitment behind such attachments, otherwise we'd feel used.

Her answer was two-fold.  First, she said she missed me, and second, she was hoping we could be friends.  I explained to her that I couldn't handle being friends, because of how she treated me during our relationship and because it would be too hard to be friends knowing she was sharing her bed with someone else. 

When a pwBPD asks about being "friends" it is my observation that this role is more like "back-up romantic attachment."  You'd have to wonder if all such "friends" of theirs are more accurately described as such.  In my experience, they are not terribly good at friendship... .  but then again, I guess that depends upon what you expect out of "friends."

When I asked about the possibility of getting back together, she said she couldn't do it, because of the fact that I have kids from a previous marriage.  Her rationale was that my kids would take too much of my time away from her!  She said that that was the reason she was breaking up with her current bf as well (he's divorced with a pre-teen who lives with his ex).  I pointed out that the love I had for her was very different than the love I had for my kids, and that she was always my first priority when we were together.  She acknowledged that I was right, but she said she couldn't handle my spending time with my kids if we got back together. 

You see, there is quite a lot of truth behind what she says.  She indicates that she would feel neglected by you when you spend your time with your kids.  And if her possible attachment to you were that of an emotionally healthy adult, then this would be unreasonable.  However, as a pwBPD, her attachment to you is closer to that between a child and a surrogate parent.  Physically this might not be true.  But emotionally I think this is apt.  PwBPD are emotionally, developmentally arrested.

If you accept that she has BPD, then you must accept that this is "normal" behavior for her until/unless she starts recovering from her disorder.

Toward the end of the conversation, I told her as gently as I could that I needed to heal and move on, and I needed her not to contact me anymore.  It was really hard to do that, as during the phone call we both shared our feelings for each other.  She was very sincere in telling me that she still loved me.  I have such a hard time processing that, given that she has been with someone else for the past 4 months and they have been very sexually active.  Nevertheless, I know her feelings for me are very genuine.  At that point, I wished her well and said farewell.

She had a hard time ending that conversation because she was reacting to the fact that you were choosing to leave her at that instance, which she emotionally interpreted as "abandonment."  Never mind that she has been with someone else for the past 4 months; that did not factor into that specific context.  Her feelings are indeed genuine, but that does not mean they are consistent (does that make them not genuine but disordered?); when her context changes, when she (again) sees the other person in her life as the "parent" then all her attachment (and disordered feelings) will apply to this other person and no longer to you.  It will be as if you no longer exist in her life, unless/until she needs you (again).

I'm left with so many questions.  I think I know the answers based on what I'm learning from others on this board, but would appreciate your validation.  For one, why would she date and bed another guy when she's obviously still in love with me?  Is it because she can't stand to be alone and she needed the new guy to help her feel whole and needed, regardless of how she felt about me? 

She does not process "in love" the way a non-disordered person processes "in love."  For pwBPD, they can be "in love" in the sense that they can be infatuated for a significant period of time.  And during this time things are "idealized" because their disordered feelings are not so intense.  What I find intensifies their disordered feelings are feelings of intimacy and familiarity; there is zero true intimacy and familiarity at the infatuation stage.  But the minute we start becoming "family" to them, this really triggers their disordered fear of abandonment; which they try to mitigate by clinging even more desperately.

So when she was infatuated with you, she was "in love" in the sense that she hoped that you would be "the one" who wouldn't trigger her disordered feelings.  And when her disordered feelings overwhelmed her, she had to find someone else who could be "the one."  And when she was no longer with you, it seemed to her that you no longer triggered her disordered feelings, so she still holds out hope that you are now "the one" because her current interest is starting to trigger her disordered feelings.  All this time, she cannot consider that she is the only common denominator to all her disordered feelings.  She only "feels" for you, when she needs someone else to be the source of attention and affection who will not trigger her disordered feelings, just like this other guy did when she first started to be with him.  I assure you, he believes that she is "in love" with him to.  And he is right only in the sense that her feelings are genuine (at the time and subject to change).

she is going to break up with her current bf, despite her telling me that he's a good guy and has tried to please her;  and she just seems to be adrift with no core identity and has no idea if she will ever meet the right person.  How do I deal with the intense desire to reach out and help her, knowing it would extend or worsen my pain? 

Know that she is going to break up with any "current bf" once she sufficiently reaches her limit on her disordered feelings being triggered, regardless of how "good" they treat her.  She seems adrift with "no core identity" because that is at the root of her personality disorder.  She has "no core identity," because she has not yet come to terms with an abandonment/betrayal trauma she sustained in early development.  Perhaps it would help you to know that any effort of yours to reach out and help her would not really help her all that much in dealing what is at the core of her problems, and would only extend or worsen her pain as well as yours.

I don't need to help everyone, but I still care for her very much and hate to see her suffer.  I told her on the phone that I had learned a great deal about her and I know the pain she is going through. 

I don't think you do know that pain that she is going through.  Heck I don't truly know the pain that she is going through, but I understand it better now than when I was deeply enmeshed with my BPD loved one.  You are still enmeshed so I don't think you can objectively help her. 

I offered to sit down and share it with her, but she declined. 

Does it make sense to sit down and talk to a traumatized child about what you understand about what they are going through?  How much professional training do you have?  Are you a licensed therapist?  More importantly, how do you access when she is emotionally capable of handling this kind of information?  Are you assuming she is?  Why do you suppose that almost universally, people here who are experienced advise never to discuss their mental disorder with those who they suspect of having this personality disorder?  In brief: it will end poorly.

I'm assuming that it's not about my kids or his kids - it's about the disorder.  It's about the fact that as she gets closer to someone, she demands his full attention 24/7, despite her spending time on the phone and in person with her girlfriends.  I further assume that as she gets closer to someone, she becomes terrified of being abandoned.

Yes, these are all right to a degree.  But do you understand why as she gets closer to someone, she demands more of his attention?  Do you understand how the time she spends with her girlfriends is a way for her to mitigate her growing fear of abandonment as she grows closer to that someone?  Do you understand that her fear of abandonment is disordered in nature and how it is related to the core of her disorder?

As much as I think I know, I don't pretend to be in any position to help anyone with this disorder.  I only know enough to help keep me out of hot water.   And I know enough to urge this person to seek professional help and that at best I can only encourage them to persist in their endeavor to recovery (if this is their goal).

I'm struggling to convince myself that I need to move on and accept that she is gone forever.  As so many on this board have shared - she was different.  The bad times (splitting, raging, accusations, lying, cheating) were really bad.  The good times were magical and nothing I had ever experienced before.  I'm in T, and it's helping, but it's been tough with the contacts up until now.  I'm hoping not to hear from her for a long while after our conversation yesterday.

I'd appreciate any validation and perspectives.  Thanks very much in advance for allowing me the opportunity to share with this community.

There is something you can learn about yourself re: the times that were "magical."  As damaged as she is, she had the insight to reach deep into your psyche and show you something that is very important to you... .  only she is not that thing.  She is as least as wounded as perhaps you are.

I hope I don't come across as scolding.  If I do, it is only because you remind me too much of myself when I was recently broken up with my BPD loved.  As damaged and hurt as I was, I was still only focused on helping or "fixing" her.  And if I would I would tell my past self that if anything needs helping and fixing, it's the man in the mirror.

You are in the right place.

Best wishes, Schwing

[schwing]

... .  but i honestly believe her feelings for me are unlike how she feels about any other (I know how ridiculous that sounds, but I know her better than anyone else, including her family). 

BPD is a *personality* disorder.  It affects the person's personality.  And my understanding is that BPD affects their very *identity* in that they don't have a "fixed" identity.  You know how she feels even better than anyone else including her family, *only* when she is with you.  When she is with anyone else, I would argue she is a *different* person.  When she is with her family, she is a *different* person.  Try being in the same room with her and anyone on else who has ever been like family with her and see how she behaves.

Somehow, naively, I want to believe that love can conquer all... .  

Love does not cure mental disorders.

any emotional healthy person would gladly accept the kids of someone she loves.  She would never expect me to choose between her and my kids, but telling me essentially that her heart is not big enough for me and the kids is very telling. 

Doesn't it tell you that she is not an "emotionally healthy person"?

While her behaviors have not been mature, she has never said one unkind thing to me since she left.  She has been very consistent in telling me how much she still cares for me in a way that doesn't seem to be a conscious attempt to keep me strung along.  Rather, she appears to me to be lost with no core identity, having given up someone who gave everything to her and someone whom she still loves.

Try this: stop listening to what she says.  Interpret her intentions and feelings based on her actions.  And what do her actions tell you?

[Confusedandhurt]

Schwing,

I'm really grateful for the time you took to respond.  You've given me much to think about.

There's clearly a lot I'm still learning about the disorder.  While I was with my ex, I worked very hard trying to understand her in order to be as supportive and loving as I could.  However, I'm an engineer, as is she, and not a therapist.  For several years I knew that there must have been a common thread to explain all of the behaviors I saw, but it wasn't until after she "moved on" via a text message that I started learning about BPD.  What I can tell you is that I observed her in a wide variety of situations, including with friends and her family.  Interestingly enough, she was typical of a high functioning pwBPD with her friends - very outgoing and gregarious.  With her family, she could get very angry at times and showed a lot less patience as compared with her behavior with her friends.  In fact, her behavior with her family was not dissimilar to that when she was with me.  However, she was definitely worse with me.

As you suggest, I am admittedly lacking in objectivity in this situation.  My T has even gone so far as to suggest that trying to understand all of her behaviors would make me nuts, to which I agree!  Unfortunately, the engineer in me is constantly seeking answers to the things I don't understand.

I totally agree with your assessment of trying to be friends.  I have observed the way she uses people for years, including me.  I believe it's subconscious, but it's there.  I would derive absolutely no benefit from being her friend, other than to feel like an object and possibly a stand-by romantic replacement, as you suggest.  She does have a close circle of girlfriends with whom she communicates regularly.  It's interesting, though, that she contacts them much more frequently than in reverse.  From my perspective, it's further evidence that she has no core identity and cannot self soothe.  She has to continuously be in touch with people who will comfort her.  As an example - she talks to her older sister at least 6 times per day, no kidding!

The biggest things I took away from your response are:  1)  She is an emotional 3 year old, so expecting any kind of mature behaviors, feelings, reactions, and/or consistency is unrealistic;  and 2)  She has no core identity, so her words won't match her behavior and it causes her to focus only on what others can do for her.

Sometimes I feel like a 3 year old, given how little I knew about this disorder.  Make no mistake, I'm looking inward as well for reasons why I became so trauma bonded in the first place.

Thanks again for the wise counsel!

[Tausk]

While her behaviors have not been mature, she has never said one unkind thing to me since she left.  She has been very consistent in telling me how much she still cares for me in a way that doesn't seem to be a conscious attempt to keep me strung along.  Rather, she appears to me to be lost with no core identity, having given up someone who gave everything to her and someone whom she still loves.

Try this: stop listening to what she says.  Interpret her intentions and feelings based on her actions.  And what do her actions tell you?

Hey C and H:

Hang in there and keep posting on the board.  People here understand.  And as Schwing says above, look at her actions.  Words mean nothing.  She can talk the talk, but does she walk the walk.  

She might not have said unkind words to you, but to discard a person who you've asked to love you, and then to cut contact with them, is one of the most abusive and cruelest things that a person can do to another.  

A parent who threatens to leave or actually does abandon their children, when the parent is mad, causes psychotic breaks in the children.  It's better to stay and yell than leave.  At least then the person cares enough to stay.  Splitting black and leaving quickly is devaluation of the other person, who loves and therefore is vulnerable.  But instead the one left behind is treated like an old smelly pair of shoes.  It's absolutely heinous and evil behavior.  And we're not victims, we are volunteers.

So she may not say unkind things to you, but she's engaged in the some of the cruelest and most abusive behavior that a person can do to another person.  

But know that your compassion for her is of great character and it's a solid reflection of who you are.  And remember, the even if you want to help your ex, you can't do it unless you're taking care of yourself first.  

In support,

SP

[schwing]

Hi confusedandhurt,

Ok... .  I understand now why you want to understand... .  I will try to impart what I've been able to piece together myself... .  mind you, this is from a layman's perspective, I am not in the mental health care field by profession... .  but... .  my motivation in trying to understand this disorder is that my mother suffers from this disorder and so in a sense I have always, in my entire life, tried to "fix" my mother in order to "win" her love.  Understanding it as I have come to understand this disorder was an exercise to convince myself that "fixing" her (or anyone else with BPD) is not an endeavor for myself, but it must be an endeavor that the person who suffers from the disorder chooses for him or herself.  And the "model" in which this best compares with is that of a person recovering from alcoholism, or any other kind of addictive behavior: they must find the motivation within themselves (and via their "higher power" a la the 12 steps).  Everyone else is either helping them "stay on the wagon" or else are just enabling their dysfunctional behaviors.

//

My understanding is that the core of the problem rest with an unresolved traumatic event (real or imagined) buried in the psyche of the sufferer.  It may be like PTSD, except the suffer's mind and development was very limited at the time of the event (3 years of age give or take).  So not only is the sufferer overwhelmed by the event and have limited psychological resources to cope/manage this traumatic event, the event itself forces the sufferer to develop disruptive (or maladaptive) coping mechanisms in which to limit or "manage" their psychological pain; and these disruptive behaviors are only reinforced over years and years of reliance. This is the core of the onion.  It is a core trauma that the sufferer probably does not even have the wherewithal to even begin facing, so it is unconsciously suppressed.

One way of looking at it is that whatever neuro-"software" that's supposed to run during pre-adolescence and adolescence, doesn't for pwBPD.  They depend on older "code".  So they exhibit behaviors such as: "splitting" disorder (black & white thinking) just like toddlers might.  Also they exhibit the *lack of object constancy*, again, just as toddlers might.  And they have zero emotional temperance, just as toddlers might.  All the while, they are still learning and developing in *other* ways which only make it easier for them to hide their deficiencies which they must hide because they cannot face them... .  this can be seen as their "shame" but I see it as an application of their splitting behavior: they must be "perfect" because the only alternative is that they are "worthless" and "flawed" (black and white thinking).  This kind of dichotomous thinking can wreak a person or push a person to excel in many other kinds of disciplines, thus we have low functioning pwBPD as well as high functioning... .  

During a period of time when everyone else is forming their identities, their personalities, pwBPD are only learning how to approximate a "personality" because for the most part they can fake it as long as they know how to behave differently with different people.  This is not unlike how a sociopath or high functioning psychopath can "fake" being a normal person.  For pwBPD, their dysfunction is primarily with how they relate to family and loved ones, so the exposure of their deficiencies is limited.  The more intelligent they are, the more able they are at hiding their issues.  And they hide it most thoroughly from themselves through denial, projection, delusion, etc... .  

The thing is, the "software" that was interrupted decades ago, still wants to run.  Their psyche still wants to resolve that early attachment with the parent (the goal being to internalize that attachment).  And the psyche wants to form into a "whole" personality.  But this cannot happen until the mind gets past the "trauma" bug (PTSD) that is still unresolved.  As I understand it, they "invent" a personality to form new attachments.  But each time they form an intimate relationship with someone, they get to this point where the intimacy and closeness in the relationship triggers in them the recollection of their deep unresolved trauma (thus "fear of abandonment/betrayal". And so in a sense, their disordered reactions to us, are actually their suppressed reactions to this early trauma.  And without any new coping mechanisms or emotional skills, they may revert back to their old coping mechanisms... .  they run away, and invent a new person to attach to a new parent figure.  This is the part of the pattern which we witness.

My speculation is that if they want to recover, they must first develop new emotional skills to cope and temper their emotions.  And then they have to get very very adept at using these new skills (such as those learned in DBT) to the point that they are willing and able to start replacing their maladapative coping mechanisms.  I can only imagine that this takes a lot of time and effort.  And when they get good and ready, start chipping away at those many memories and emotions they have compartmentalized and shoved deep into their psyche.  With the end goal of finally getting to that core abandonment/betrayal trauma they suffer decades ago.  And presumably when they can finally access that deep hurt, and *process* that deep hurt.  Then, they can go through what the rest of us have gone through in terms of emotional development.  

Part of why this is such a difficult path is if they ever encounter more pain/emotions than they are able to handle with their current set of skills (such as facing the possibility that they have BPD), then there must be a strong incentive to relapse and go back to the old way of thinking and coping.

This is not a path I would envy to walk.  Then again, I have my own arduous path upon which I must tread.

[Confusedandhurt]

Schwing,

I'm grateful for the response.  I'm learning a lot on this board and it's making a difference.  I'll admit at times i still feel like an idiot for not being able to move on.  Other times I feel like an idiot for wanting a recycle.  There's a pattern here... .  

For me, it's simply trying to make sense of something that I'm incapable of understanding, as you've rightly pointed out.  One thing I didn't mention in my last post - while I obviously don't have the skills to treat her for the disorder, I somehow had hoped that she would at least be willing to allow me to share what I've learned and how others who suffer from BPD share the same struggles and pain as she has felt.  Again, naively, I had hoped that I had earned her trust over the past 4.5 years that she would listen to what I had to say.  Honestly, I believe it's a pipe dream.  While she continued to contact me over the past 6 months, she was not willing to sit down and talk when I asked.  I know I need to accept the reality that she isn't interested in looking inward right now.  She continues to believe she simply has no luck when it comes to men.  And, her friends validate that and keep encouraging her to keep searching!  Very sad.

Thanks again for the support!