idealization

[freshlySane]

How long is this phase my ex is with a guy for over 6 months and she is so in love with him granted its long distance but this makes me question is it real love

[just me.]

how do you know she is so in love with him?

My uxBPDw would present this of herself in front of her ex-boyfriends while she was with me.  She maintained friendships with a couple of them, and she would occasionally have long talks with them about how much better she is doing (now that she is with me), talk about how much she has grown, how happy she has become, etc.

It was under the guise of friendship, but she was of course doing it to twist the knife in them a little... .  prove to them that she was perfectly fine after all... .  show them she was right all the times she insisted they were "making her crazy."

This story lasted 7+ years.  They believed it (of course)... .  and so did she.

... .  and stupidly, so did I.

When she wasn't telling them how much better she was now that she'd found "the one", she was often screaming at me that I was ruining her life.


how do you know she is so in love with him?

[freshlySane]

Her twitter is all about him and how her life is so wonderful and every tweet is about him and there convos on twitter make me sick i never seen her like this not even with me

[just me.]

They have conversations on twitter?

Does she realize that you can see them?

For whose benefit is she choosing to display her romantic conversations in the most public forum possible?


I'm not necessarily saying that she is doing this to hurt you, specifically, but it seems clear she is attempting to validate her being "okay" and/or "happy" according to the perceptions of others.  Their sense of self and reality is shaky, and, in my experience, this results in an over-reliance on the perceptions of those around them as a method of establishing truth.

Her entire world is being propped up by the notion that she is not "crazy" or "terrible" or "hopeless", and that notion is now being propped up by the idea that she can make it work with this new guy.  The premise of her love and happiness with him allows her to disregard all the scary realities of what she may actually be.

It is then absolutely necessary that she, this new guy, and everybody close to her buy into this idea.  That presentation of happiness/love becomes absolutely essential to her being.  By the time she needs her friends' support to help her deal with all the "terrible things" that she will come to associate with this new guy, she will most likely have made a gradual shift to primarily new friends... .  ones that have arrived too late to see the pattern.



Her world is one of shifting realities to suit the demands of the terrified little girl inside her that would do or say absolutely anything to help her believe she is really just okay after all.  Of all the challenges she faces to accomplish this, being cutesy on twitter is relatively easy, convenient, and effective.

She's hurting you, she's proving herself right, and she's convincing everyone in the world that she's fine.  And all she needs to do is type some stuff at the computer to accomplish this?

She believes in it because she's mentally ill.  The new guy believes in it because he's in the FOG and doesn't know better.

But you shouldn't believe it.  You know better... .  right?

[AllyCat7]

How long is this phase my ex is with a guy for over 6 months and she is so in love with him granted its long distance but this makes me question is it real love

Oh if it's long distance, they can idealize them forever . If it ever becomes real, though, I bet things will fall apart within months. That's what happened to me. I was idealized for 1.5 years long distance, then he moved to my city and flaked out on me until I had enough. We are still somewhat in touch, but I'm nearly done with him. Don't sweat it too much. Focus on how she treated you and if you made the best decision for yourself based on that. If so, then that's what you need to keep reminding yourself of in order to move on. Easier said than done, though. Good luck to the both of us!

[freshlySane]

They have conversations on twitter?

Does she realize that you can see them?

For whose benefit is she choosing to display her romantic conversations in the most public forum possible?


I'm not necessarily saying that she is doing this to hurt you, specifically, but it seems clear she is attempting to validate her being "okay" and/or "happy" according to the perceptions of others.  Their sense of self and reality is shaky, and, in my experience, this results in an over-reliance on the perceptions of those around them as a method of establishing truth.

Her entire world is being propped up by the notion that she is not "crazy" or "terrible" or "hopeless", and that notion is now being propped up by the idea that she can make it work with this new guy.  The premise of her love and happiness with him allows her to disregard all the scary realities of what she may actually be.

It is then absolutely necessary that she, this new guy, and everybody close to her buy into this idea.  That presentation of happiness/love becomes absolutely essential to her being.  By the time she needs her friends' support to help her deal with all the "terrible things" that she will come to associate with this new guy, she will most likely have made a gradual shift to primarily new friends... .  ones that have arrived too late to see the pattern.



Her world is one of shifting realities to suit the demands of the terrified little girl inside her that would do or say absolutely anything to help her believe she is really just okay after all.  Of all the challenges she faces to accomplish this, being cutesy on twitter is relatively easy, convenient, and effective.

She's hurting you, she's proving herself right, and she's convincing everyone in the world that she's fine.  And all she needs to do is type some stuff at the computer to accomplish this?

She believes in it because she's mentally ill.  The new guy believes in it because he's in the FOG and doesn't know better.

But you shouldn't believe it.  You know better... .  right?

I found out about BPD through my friend he told me all the things she is doing

when i looked up emotional abuse it brought me to NPD and BPD and i was floored my best friend was right he doesnt even know what BPD is but he broke it down for me and what he said how she acted her track record in life fit the bill it clicked it made sense and she is also diagnosed with PTSD untreated she stopped treatment and only sought treatment because it was court ordered

i was on her twitter friends when after many arguments she blocked me when she left me she un blocked me every single person even my mother told me she knows me inside out and knows id check her twitter and those tweets are meant to show me hey look i found someone who wants to be with me. She was so emotionally abusive one night her and her male best friend berated me told me i deserve to die because one night she was making me feel crazy for trying to rationalize her behavior and i told her in frustration who the f would want to be with her with the way she treats me.  she told me i hurt her i made her feel like she was worthless and that's not my attention i was so hurt because no matter what she does or says she rationalizes it i believe her blame myself and when I say anything in frustration i am an abusive boyfriend.

he is offering her things she says i didn't offer some true some not but it just confusing and it hurts. I shift between blaming myself for losing her and realizing i am better off. its agonizing because she is so smart and intelligent its so easy to blame me i feel i lost the love of my life and sometimes i feel she was all a lie this kind of break up is so hard i pray everyday my love ones never experience a r/s like this.

[trouble11]

[/quote]
Oh if it's long distance, they can idealize them forever . [/quote]
Wow ... .  that's what made me think it was real.  For 1.5 years the message never changed.  Unfortunately, it was me that moved to be with him.   :'(

[freshlySane]

Wow ... .  that's what made me think it was real.  For 1.5 years the message never changed.  Unfortunately, it was me that moved to be with him.   :'(

thats funny because me and her had a long distance rs and it was hell she was always needy and she left me for the second time but then again we dated for 6 months togehter  before she moved and then we had a LDR

[Gaslit]

freshlySane, wait for it, wait for it.

Seriously, do nothing, show nothing, she can feign for the cameras all she wants. I'm betting her reality is very different from her deliberate fantasy she shows online.

And long distance or not, her new boyfriend will soon enough learn what it feels to be like you. It will be quite the eye opener. Heck, don't be surprised if he shows up here!

All she has to do is get a little attention from someone nearby and new, and boom, she idolizes the new person, and starts to treat the current BF, like, well, you.

Time will catch up.

[freshlySane]

freshlySane, wait for it, wait for it.

Seriously, do nothing, show nothing, she can feign for the cameras all she wants. I'm betting her reality is very different from her deliberate fantasy she shows online.

And long distance or not, her new boyfriend will soon enough learn what it feels to be like you. It will be quite the eye opener. Heck, don't be surprised if he shows up here!

All she has to do is get a little attention from someone nearby and new, and boom, she idolizes the new person, and starts to treat the current BF, like, well, you.

Time will catch up.

I know your right its funny everyone here has insight on this condition but the people who do not know about this condition tell me the same thing you guys are its my fear that's controlling me and i always fret and worry ... .  my friend who is younger then me divorced and getting remarried no history of therapy or studying psychology told me she realized she couldn't marry me and that i was starting to stand up for myself that i was figuring her out and she needed to run to another "victim" as he says in order to i guess self soothe her ego.  

She told me once that she wanted to take me down to the court house in order to surprise me with marriage. So that i can become her children's father legally, I told her how in the world can you surprise a man with marriage even though i purposed to her and we made plans to have a child of our own i wanted to plan and execute a well thought out relationship before we tied the knot mainly because we were having problems and i realized that marriage was not going to fix our problems the way i first thought it would.

I will always regret telling her Who the Frank would want to be with her ... I know that statement was a main source for her to paint me black and move on but its hard for me to rehash and wish i didn't say it but if i didn't say it maybe the rs would of continued and id be in the FOG suffering in a different way that i am now,

[seeking balance]

How long is this phase my ex is with a guy for over 6 months and she is so in love with him granted its long distance but this makes me question is it real love

honestly... .  it is real to her.

I know this is hard to hear.  pwBPD believe the emotion they feel in the moment - keep in mind your definition of love and hers is likely different.  Also keep in mind that your ability to love and hers is likely different as well.

[freshlySane]

How long is this phase my ex is with a guy for over 6 months and she is so in love with him granted its long distance but this makes me question is it real love

honestly... .  it is real to her.

I know this is hard to hear.  pwBPD believe the emotion they feel in the moment - keep in mind your definition of love and hers is likely different.  Also keep in mind that your ability to love and hers is likely different as well.

if its real why do they fail in relationships?

[seeking balance]

How long is this phase my ex is with a guy for over 6 months and she is so in love with him granted its long distance but this makes me question is it real love

honestly... .  it is real to her.

I know this is hard to hear.  pwBPD believe the emotion they feel in the moment - keep in mind your definition of love and hers is likely different.  Also keep in mind that your ability to love and hers is likely different as well.

if its real why do they fail in relationships?

not all fail - there is a staying board of people who do have relationships that last. Remember, you only see the ones struggling here - many people go through the staying board and in good times we don't see them.

keep in mind - any relationship is 2 people, so changing the "no" will change they dynamics.

[freshlySane]

So she can very well have a lasting relationship with this guy

[seeking balance]

So she can very well have a lasting relationship with this guy

why not?

[freshlySane]

i am confused i don't know i thought she would repeat her behavior she is very stuck i her defenses but your telling me that all she needs is someone who will work with her and she can learn to get help?

[freshlySane]

This makes me feel like i was never enough for her?

[myself]

if its real why do they fail in relationships?

Love could be enough, and for some, it is. But with love comes closeness, honesty, and consistent positive efforts with someone else. When your urge is to attach, but what you attach to is like a flame that burns you so you feel you have to let go, but then you're drawn back to it, and get burned again, and it keeps repeating no matter who you attach to... .  When the object-person you've been idealizing turns out to not be perfect, and you've projected your own pains, shame, and blame on them which makes them even less appealing... .  When the grass is always greener because you couldn't/didn't take care of your own, often sabotaging it... .  Your relationships will fail. Even when they last, they're damaged, and those involved are hurting. Love needs to be tended to. It needs to grow. If it's just abandoned or neglected, it can fade away. Sometimes it's just the right combination and everything opens up. We all have the possibility, and the ability to share our love. It's what we do with the chances we are given (and create).

[freshlySane]

So this guy for her might be the real deal and the one that can help her finally see what she has been doing for years?

[freshlySane]

now i feel like i missed my chance that if i had did my research and listened to my friends i could of helped her and wed probably be on the road to recovery together

[freshlySane]

I saw this on another website

"We all deserved to be loved. But if you’re an untreated borderline you are putting the ones you love at risk, at risk of emotional harm. Does that mean you are never to find love? No. It means you must seek treatment before you can find love. You are responsible for the well-being of the other person when you enter a relationship. You are not doomed for life if you seek treatment. Be well".

[GustheDog]

So this guy for her might be the real deal and the one that can help her finally see what she has been doing for years?

As I see it, *she* is capable of having a lasting relationship if *she* decides to correct her maladaptive behaviors and coping mechanisms at some future point.  If the question is, in the absence of self-work on her part, will she be capable of a lasting relationship - my guess is most likely no.

It's my general impression that BPDs tend to seek out some mystical, "perfect" mate who will never trigger their disorder.  Unfortunately, the disorder does not discriminate on the basis of the partner's distinct qualities, and is instead triggered by feelings of intimacy and familiarity themselves.

It also depends on one's definition of a "lasting relationship."  If my ex comes back and I agree to recycle, and that recycle lasts another year or two, and then ends with her running away again, and then we take another break, and then recycle again, and this pattern repeats for the rest of our lives - by some standards this could be considered both "lasting" and a "relationship."

Semantics aside, I would guess that not many would willingly choose such a dynamic.

[GustheDog]

(unintended post)

[just me.]

So she can very well have a lasting relationship with this guy

why not?

I'm a little confused by the direction this thread has taken.  It seems like freshlysane is seeking some reassurance that the nightmare he went through with his pwBPD needs to be viewed with an appreciation of the severity of the mental illness - rather than him merely internalizing it all as him feeling "not good enough" to make it work with her.

The prospect of her being healthy and happy with another person is forcing him to doubt himself again.

It seems like the topic comes up frequently here, and people are consistently reassured to trust what they know to be true, and understand that the confusion of what they experienced begins to make more sense with an appreciation of the severity of this condition.  People are frequently reminded that they can't internalize all of what was said/done to them... .  and they should let go of the belief that it's a representation of their failure.

It seems like freshlysane is not being offered the same reassurance, and I don't really understand why that is.


It is very possible that his ex girlfriend may have a "lasting relationship" with this new guy.  But a healthy one?  Or a stable one?  If she has BPD, then nearly all of what I have come to learn and understand about this condition suggests that a healthy stable relationship due to just "finding the right guy" is extremely unlikely.

As for "why not?",  I feel like the answer is because she has BPD.  That's a serious mental illness that interferes greatly with one's ability to maintain themselves within intimate relationships.

[freshlySane]

(unintended post)

that's okay ... .  she knows something is wrong with her but she thinks its just her PTSD i tried to support her emotionally financially abut it never worked we argued a lot int he end and i regret ever minute of it .

this guy is a nice guy he like me lonely insecure wanting to save her .but she has done some really crazy things trying to find the one cheated on her ex husband cheated on her ex girlfriend cheated on me

slept with best friends cutting herself suicidal gestures and convos i Love her i want to help her but i cant i am blacker then black. She lost her mother at 7 to HIV and her father to the same thing so she struggled all her life she was abused as a child by a relative and had a teen  pregnancy so she has the trifecta. If i knew she had BPd id done everything in my power to get help so i could help her i cant and my fear is this guy will figure it out and shell hate me forever and ill never ever see her again im learning to forgive her behavior but i blame myself i didnt take the time to help her because i was too much into trying to help her ... .  i know weird

[GustheDog]

i Love her i want to help her but i cant i am blacker then black... .  If i knew she had BPd id done everything in my power to get help so i could help her i cant and my fear is this guy will figure it out and shell hate me forever and ill never ever see her again im learning to forgive her behavior but i blame myself i didnt take the time to help her because i was too much into trying to help her ... .  i know weird

You can't help her, and neither can "new guy," even if he figures out she has BPD.  You, or he, can certainly *support* her, but only she can help herself in terms of recovering from the disorder.  Further, what we often view as help/support is really just further enabling the BPD sufferer to continue their unhealthy behavior.

Moreover, even if you learned about BPD while you were with her, what makes you believe that she'd respond positively to this suggestion on your part?  Some pwBPD do - it's true - yet many others do not.  

When a person suffers from a condition that is comprised in large part of "learned helplessness" thoughts and behaviors, the default response for many is to take the easy way out, regardless of whether it may also be more destructive in the long run.  What's easier to do - (a) acknowledging that you have a serious mental illness for which the only proven treatment is a serious commitment to time-consuming and emotionally-painful therapy over a period of years, or (b) blaming others for all your problems?

This is a post from another thread by the member 2010 that illustrates this "learned helplessness" concept and also how partners of pwBPD enable such behavior:

"'I have been helping my stbxBPD find a car, because she is a child and can't do anything on her own. I do want her to be safe, and also not overspend on a car because that just isn't fair. So I went out and test drove some cars with her.'

"Aristotle was one of the greatest philosophers. He knew that to touch a hot stove was better than listening to a hundred speeches about how not to get burned. Having her make her own decisions about a car IS fair. It is a learning experience for her- and good or bad, it determines her self-reliance. Self reliance means we all have to learn from our mistakes and misfortunes- whether or not they are determined by us- and the first step is making our own choices as to how we want to proceed.

"Borderlines choose people to blame for their learned helplessness. The car you help test drive today will become a car that has "issues" tomorrow. The best way to protect yourself is to disengage and realize how you are being sucked into the disapproving "parent" role, the rescuer role. Nothing is going to change unless you stop yourself- she's lived her entire life this way.

"If there is a fear that if you don’t help, then someone else will fall into the trap of rescuing her- (and you are then out of the loop)- then you must address your fear and seek counsel for it. Eventually this WILL happen, especially if you are [no longer together]. . . .

"She's never going to get on her own two feet if you don't detach - and isn't that what you want?"

[freshlySane]

thank you for that it makes sense ... .  i only think this strongly because she says this relationship is her last shot to be happy and that she will do anything to make it work

[GustheDog]

thank you for that it makes sense ... .  i only think this strongly because she says this relationship is her last shot to be happy and that she will do anything to make it work

More problems:

The very thoughts driving her to say something like, "[T]his relationship is [my] last shot to be happy . . . ," are symptomatic of the disorder.  One cannot depend on a relationship for their own personal happiness.  A relationship can and should enrich one's life, but it is not the source of a person's happiness (if it is, it is unhealthy and unsustainable).

Second, this statement also smacks of professional victimhood, or the "woe is me" mantra that never ends.  This is her telling you that you, and everyone else before "new guy," have failed.  She says this to guilt you.  And it is working very well.  :)on't let it.

[freshlySane]

we been broken up for 4 months yeah she was dating him while still with me and she can still affect my mind ugggh i need help myself im going back to therapy

[just me.]

thank you for that it makes sense ... .  i only think this strongly because she says this relationship is her last shot to be happy and that she will do anything to make it work

It is only her "last shot" until she realizes that this guy let her down like everyone else.  Then she'll be on to the next "last shot".

My ex-wife always told me that our relationship was her "last chance"... .  and if she couldn't make this work, then she'd really know something was wrong with her and she'd give up trying.

Now she's with another "last chance"... .  that's how it works.



My wife used to call her life with me her "Chapter 2"... .  because it was magical and different.  "Chapter 1" was all the disappointment and the pain and heartache, but "Chapter 2" was love and happiness.

Her book has been revised.  I am now in Chapter 1 with all the other disappointments.  A new man is her Chapter 2 now.  And he will be until he isn't anymore.

I'd guess that she'll be writing the first few new pages of yet another new "Chapter 2" over and over again for the rest of her life.

Chapter 1 keeps getting longer.  The darn book never gets finished.