Closure

[morningagain]

Posted this on the undecided board first - not sure - i think depending on the minute, the weather, the phase of the moon, or if my bladder is full I keep going back and forth between undecided and done.  Probably just a grey area for me.

Closure

   1.  Separation.  -- what follows is vanilla approximations of phones calls from hundreds of miles away

   2.  Me:  Offer of mutual and independent therapy to heal and grow back together

   3.  Her: I want a legal separation agreement this week.  It's over.  You suck.

   4.  Her later that first week:  I am seeing someone else.

   5.  Her two days after that:  I had sex with him

   6.  Me:  You suck!  You did a, b, c and every other letter!  I demand admissions!  I demand closure from you!

   7.  Her:  See?  See how bad you suck?  You suck so bad!  You suck, and he is grand.  I pity you, you poor, poor man.  Close the door yourself.

   8.  Repeat 6 & 7 a few times

   9.  Me:  ARG!  Ugh.  Oof.  Sigh.  OK - I close the door, sadly.  Put it to rest.  Peace & sadness, but OK.

  10.  Her:  Knock, knock - Oh Honey... .    I love you, I forgive you (well, except for that one thing), we can make this work... .  

  11.  Me:  Um, Huh?  Uh... .  gosh, um... .  gee

  12.  Her next day:  I did this and that today, how are you doing?  Oh that is so good.  Why if you were only like this before.  See how we can make it?  Gosh you are so cute and smart... .    This is the man I knew and fell in love with... .  

  12.  Me:  Well, maybe - door cracks open

  13.  Her:  Adoring eyes, sweet sing song voice, laughter, admissions of guilt and BPD, expressions of love - I hear some things I have prayed for years to hear from her

  14.  Her Sister:  Uh, Michael - you do know she has breakfast each morning with the man she lives with, kisses him goodbye as he goes to work, and then calls you... .  

Up to me to close the door.  I closed the door.  I opened the door.  Up to me to close the door again.

Closure... .  

[Sunshinegirl3275]

Hi Michael,

I feel your pain. Just remember that she does not feel things the same way you do and never will.

You have control of this situation and can decide at any time to walk away from this pain once and for all. Believe me I know how difficult it is. I am 3 weeks out and I still cry daily about all of it. But, I have decided that I am stronger than this unhealthy bond we had and I don't want to recycle again. My heart can't take it!

When you feel weakness for her - remind yourself of the pain she inflicts on your heart and soul - it's kinda like pinching yourself...

[morningagain]

Hey Sunshine 

Yeah - I guess that is what this post was about.  To remind me.  Just trying to take the vitriol out.  Tired of the conflict - with her, with myself.  Maybe I am ready to move on from this point - it is a difficult step.  Fighting myself, my nature, my weaknesses.  This is about me.  Reaching out for support - thank you so much, Darlin'!

You hang in there too - I know for me post separation I have continued to ride the disorder-coaster, but the highs and lows are less extreme.  Things are evening out with me.  I guess this is the fork in the coaster ride, and I have the control lever - is it back to the top?  (the start... .  )  or do I choose to get off this ride?

Take Good Care 

Michael

[Phoenix.Rising]

Hi Michael,  We haven't talked in a while.  This has been some ride, wouldn't you say?  Wow.  It must be very challenging to remain in contact and get mixed messages.  I went through that not long ago with my ex.  It was the continued push/pull.

I agree with Sunshinegirl in that your ex does not feel emotions the same way you do.  She's feeling them more like a child, so they turn on and off quickly, and she probably never attached to you on the level you attached to her.  She's incapable of attaching to you in that manner.

I know you love her, but from everything you've posted, she's not able to return the love in the same way.  All of this really sucks, and I hate it, but I have to keep trying to look for the positives and ways that I can grow and change from this.  I believe a romantic relationship with my ex would create more anxiety and pain.  My anxiety got so bad I was having chest pains.  Love cannot heal or fix the situation.  They are mentally ill.  We have become ill as well, and I need to give myself permission to heal.

You are a courageous soul.  Keep the faith, my friend.   

[morningagain]

Hi Michael,  We haven't talked in a while.  This has been some ride, wouldn't you say?  Wow.  It must be very challenging to remain in contact and get mixed messages.  I went through that not long ago with my ex.  It was the continued push/pull.

I agree with Sunshinegirl in that your ex does not feel emotions the same way you do.  She's feeling them more like a child, so they turn on and off quickly, and she probably never attached to you on the level you attached to her.  She's incapable of attaching to you in that manner.

I know you love her, but from everything you've posted, she's not able to return the love in the same way.  All of this really sucks, and I hate it, but I have to keep trying to look for the positives and ways that I can grow and change from this.  I believe a romantic relationship with my ex would create more anxiety and pain.  My anxiety got so bad I was having chest pains.  Love cannot heal or fix the situation.  They are mentally ill.  We have become ill as well, and I need to give myself permission to heal.

You are a courageous soul.  Keep the faith, my friend.   

Hey Phoenix,

Yeah.  "mixed messages"... .    more than that, but I guess you know that.  Calling me while she is living with, sleeping with, having sex with another man, and calling me to reconcile.  Diametrically opposed actions.  Hypocritical actions.  Betrayal.  And these are pretty much accurate and not 'loaded' or vitriolic descriptions.  I do have a lot of understanding of why she is doing things and how she might be justifying it.  Regardless of HER, it oversteps my boundaries and betrays my values to betray another's relationship.  Even if the situation is so disordered that I am 'cheating' WITH my wife.  By participating in these discussions, I am trampling my own values and welcoming her to cross my boundaries.  It is not healthy, I am not healthy to participate in this.

So I recall the situation with my support people.  Do my best to remove the emotion.  Even laugh at myself when the obvious is pointed out to me.  I do not hate her.  I do love and care for her.  I have got to be able to live by my values.  Wisdom without the strength to act on that wisdom is what I have demonstrated - so I need to keep exercising my values, my virtues, in less demanding environments.  If I cannot control my eating, I would be unwise to go to an all-you-can eat place - it would be a sign of strength to stay away.  probably a million more analogies, but there it is.

work on me.  identify my values.  learn more about boundaries.  work on living by my values and holding my boundaries.  work, work, work.  on me.

peace, wisdom and strength.  peace through strength.

[Phoenix.Rising]

Aligning your boundaries with your value system... I needed to hear that.  Thank you.  You're making good progress.

I could not trust my ex.  That was the deal breaker for me.  My value system consists of mutual trust, as in not having emotional affairs with other men while we are 'together'.

[Sunshinegirl3275]

I agree that the mixed messages is what ultimately drives you nuts. In one breath he's telling me that "I am his whole world",  while I know he just called one of my co-workers and asked her out because I ended things. It's maddened that he doesn't even have the capacity to see the pain he inflicts. I don't hate him either, but I know in my heart we could never be friends because his pain will continue forever.

My personal improvement plan is to make sure that I never ever allow anyone to invade my personal boundries again. My values have been trampled. I'm on the floor picking them up and putting them in a little box where they can be safe. Although our partners are the opposite sex, they are inflicting the same kind of pain and we need to keep our shields up! There is no trust and that should mean everything!

I signed up for a kick boxing class last night... .  I have to say that punching bag looked so enticing for this "girly-girl". 

[Phoenix.Rising]

Kickboxing sounds like an excellent idea!

[Clearmind]

Hmmm…lots of up and downs there Michael – not easy to navigate and like you I had to put a stop to it because my ex was not going to. I was a soft place for him to land and started to really question the trust I had in him – and me!

I no longer trusted his love, I no longer trusted whether he was authentic, I no longer trusted who he spoke to/slept with/consoled – I was sure it wasn’t me! I no longer trusted him enough to give myself over and make love.

No trust, respect or admiration – out the window – to me these 3 things are the basis of a healthy relationship. The longer I was out the more I really genuinely looked forward to truly trusting, respecting and admiring another being.

So while I dwelled on the negatives and the push/pull I also started to turn my thinking around to my future - And it feels great!

Kick boxing to get those happy hormones moving sounds like a great idea

[morningagain]

Hmmm…lots of up and downs there Michael – not easy to navigate and like you I had to put a stop to it because my ex was not going to. I was a soft place for him to land and started to really question the trust I had in him – and me!

I no longer trusted his love, I no longer trusted whether he was authentic, I no longer trusted who he spoke to/slept with/consoled – I was sure it wasn’t me! I no longer trusted him enough to give myself over and make love.

No trust, respect or admiration – out the window – to me these 3 things are the basis of a healthy relationship. The longer I was out the more I really genuinely looked forward to truly trusting, respecting and admiring another being.

So while I dwelled on the negatives and the push/pull I also started to turn my thinking around to my future - And it feels great!

Kick boxing to get those happy hormones moving sounds like a great idea

Hi Clearmind,

Yes, I do not trust her, no respect, I do not admire her.  These are good things for me to keep in mind.  Even with the sing-song stuff from her lately, I have no desire for her (well, ok, no libido whatsoever, but that is not even a concern of mine right now - i have a lot of work to do- employment kinda work  )

Made me smile to read about Sunshinegirl's kickboxing!  Cool!

I am doing really well tonight - getting past my macho-male-ego to see my role in the drama triangle put at least a partial concrete perspective on my r/s - i can see some of it in my life before her even.  Funny thing - that male ego thing that kept me from reading "the three faces of victim" article for so long is now an advantage because I will be darned if I will be a victim! -  rescuer or victim or persecutor in a kdt - don't matter - each is a victim - besides - i jumped from the rescuer role into the victim role with gusto each time she didn't believe me, for example.  my male ego i do not think will ever permit me to slip into one of those stupid drama triangles again.  sure - i might jump in as a rescuer if i really think it is a real situation and whoever it is actually needs help - they occur - RARELY - and most certainly not multiple times daily centered around one person! - but IF I slip stupidly into a karpman triangle and get flipped into a 'persecutor' cuz i don't do something well enough or disagree or ask if they have considered the other person's perspective, no way am i taking the bait. at this point, i might laugh.  in any regard, nope not participating, not singing the blues to anyone else (dont need no rescuer myself), not doing for any other adult what they are perfectly daggone well capable of handling.  i GET it now.  hurts them, hurts me.

heck - frees me to be me - to follow my nature and to help people.  i ain't helpin' them if i am hurtin' them!

[morningagain]

"not doing for any other adult what they are perfectly daggone well capable of handling."  -- ok - grey area here - nothing wrong with helping as long as i am not seeing this is at the expense of someone else or if someone is pressuring me because of their victimhood even though it seems clear they are able and capable.

so - i need to expect i will find myself in the triangle in the future - best i can do is to try and be aware and kindly and confidently get out of the triangle if i find myself there

[morningagain]

going to re-read the article.  It is a process.  I'll be back.   

[Clearmind]

I see you taking back some personal power - good for you!

It's ok to be nice however not at the expense of your own happiness. Being assertive is a very attractive trait.

It's strange how I to say how much I loved my ex - when I knew I didn't even like him. Respect and admiration for a partner is so so very important.

If you sense triangulation - pause and think about which role you are playing - persecutor, victim or rescuer - then re-center yourself. If in doubt let the first word be 'No'

So maybe our closure is as simple as - no respect or admiration = unhealthy love - for us!

[morningagain]

It's ok to be nice however not at the expense of your own happiness.

I like that as a very good gut-check.

Being assertive is a very attractive trait.

now CM - you know flattery will get you everywhere!

It's strange how I to say how much I loved my ex - when I knew I didn't even like him. Respect and admiration for a partner is so so very important.

Amen!

If you sense triangulation - pause and think about which role you are playing - persecutor, victim or rescuer - then re-center yourself. If in doubt let the first word be 'No'

Might be a good fail-safe... .    I think I might tend to default to "Huh?"  though I would prefer an Archie Bunker-esk "WhhaaaAT?"  ( - probably would make me the persecutor)

So maybe our closure is as simple as - no respect or admiration = unhealthy love - for us!

I like that.  "no respect or admiration = unhealthy love" is a cold hard fact, in my book.  closure would sure be total if that was fully embraced by my heart - i think i am a gosh darn lot closer!

Thanks CM!



Michael