If BPD find God is there hope

[cal644]

I've been struggling with my divorce with my UBPD wife.  Tonight she texting me that she watched the movie fireproof and needs to find God.  I was always extremely active in church and have a very deep faith.  However she has always had just a surface faith.  Now she watched the movie she wants to find God.  My question to her was isn't that movie also about doing everything to save your marriage.  However she doesn't want to work on our marriage as she says she needs to work on herself.  I have started to let go but now I have hope that if she finds God - truly finds him, maybe things can work out.  Do I wait and put my life on hold while she finds God or do I continue to move forward.  I have always beleived that we belong together... .  what do I do?

[Clearmind]

Organized establishments may feel comforting to a BPD. Borderlines need structure and routine - organized religion may cater to it.

Church is often a place of no judgement - your ex would feel judged on a daily basis from all folks, not just you.

There is no magic pill Cal to make her all better.

[Somewhere]

mho --

God does God's thing.

You do yours.

2nd mho --

God is much better at doing His thing than we tend to be in doing ours.

Seek His will, His way, for you.  You follow that and all else follows.

[wb1233]

Cal.

I'm a Christian and so is my uBPDexgf. BPD is a mental illness. God might heal them. He might not. But that doesn't mean that they are meant to get back with us. They have free will. Your focus needs to be on you and the Lord. Pray for her. That's all we can do. Sorry for your suffering.

Proverbs 3:5-6

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart,

And lean not on your own understanding;

6 In all your ways acknowledge Him,

And He shall direct your paths.

[pessim-optimist]

Hi Cal,

I would encourage her, after all, a relationship with God is the most important one and comes first. If she wants to focus on that for now, why not? You guys can work on the marriage as a second goal.

Are you in divorce proceedings? If so, and if you believe you are supposed to be together, I would not necessarily put my life on hold, but would be open to modify to legal separation with the option of getting back together when she's ready to work on the relationship. And I would be supportive and set some kind of reasonable time limit on it.

However, have you read the book "Splitting: protecting yourself while divorcing someone with BPD or NPD"? On a parallel track, I would be ready to proceed with a divorce if necessary and be prepared legally. This book is extremely important for that.

I say that as an advice to especially men out there, who often end up with the short end of the stick, because they are not ready in advance (women tend to plan better in this area -it's scary)

[Vinnie]

Cal,

Christianforums.com has a category for those who suffer from BPD. There are a couple people who post on there who once had BPD and now no longer have the symptoms. Getting better is definitely the exception to the rule, it appears. A pwBPD needs to be willing to admit they have the problem and have an unusual determination to work hard on it in therapy and be held accountable.

Also check out the WTO(WelcomeToOz) Christian board.  "For those who come from a Christian perspective and have a borderline spouse." Unfortunately I've read through hundreds topics and there hasn't been any success stories reported of people getting freed from BPD, but a few report that their spouse learned to control their rages.  Like with this board, there are lots of wise and compassionate people who will help you on your quest, whether you stay or leave.

One last thing... .  I saw a video testimony of a woman that was delivered instantaneously from being a low functioning dBPD when she attended a faith healing service.  It looked genuine, and it was encouraging.  I just spent 15 minutes trying to find it again but couldn't locate it.

[RedCandle]

Cal,

If your best friend... .  a grown adult... .  sent you a text message that said that she had just watched "The Cutting Edge"... .  and now is determined to become an Olympic figure skater... .  would you stop what you were doing to coach this new endeavor from the side lines?

I don't mean to be a downer... .  and a lot of people DO find God... .  but I've been through this with my ex BPD.

When I went away, he started going to church... .  started quoting the Bible ALL the time... .  started talking all about "Faith, Hope and Love"... .  

But there was ZERO action to back it up. He knew how to talk the talk... .  and BOY did it sound good... .  but he did NOT walk the walk.

The same man who talked about "Love is Patient, Love is Kind... .  " would have earlier that day been breaking furniture... .  

My point is: her journey (whether genuine or not) is her business. Not something to "put your life on hold" for.

It sounds great... .  but it's called a WALK in Faith for a reason... .  believing and loving God is an ACTION.

I hope she shows you in action.

[cal644]

That was great advise - your right I can watch a movie and wish - oh I would love to do that or become that - but it takes years - I was really struggling today - thinking about the what if's - Your message sent me my answer - we have went to church almost weekly for 19 years, I taught confirmation as she watched, Became our youth leader as she watched, became our family life minister as she watched, lead and gave the sermons when our pastor was gone as she watched, prayed at dinner daily as a family, had her start reading the Bible, the list goes on and on - and she still hasn't found God.  What would make me think one movie could change her.

[pessim-optimist]

Just a bit more info on separation: I was told, that a guy who was legally separating was advised to file for divorce instead since he exposed himself to the danger of being the defendant if his wife filed for divorce first, and that would put him in a more difficult position legally... .  

So, whatever you do, take good care of yourself, and weigh all options carefully.

Wishing you God's peace in the days to come.

[stoic83]

There are 7 levels of conscuousness.

1) Primative - Cavemen/cavewomen status (BPD love this one)

2) Tribal - Native Americans, Mayans sacrifice to the gods... .  etc...

3) Feudal - Pirates, Partying, Muck it up (BPD love this one)

4) Traditionalism - Organized religion - Judaism, Christinanity, Muslim... .  etc. (BPD can do better w this one)

5) Modernism - Tv, Pop psychology, Capitalism, Economy, politics... .  etc. (lfBPD don't seem to end up here very often)

6) Esoteric - Few people who are very socially conscious and know that one religion can not be correct. Veganism, Buddhism, Yoga, Awareness... .  solution based psychology... .  etc.

7) Presence - Being present in the interconnectedness of the universe... .  being ONE with everybody and everything. No ego. No false self.

So the best you will get with a lfBPD is a god-fearing traditionalist. If that is what you want, then it might meet your needs for a relationship... .  

Religion is accepting to almost everybody, and so the BPD will never be abandoned by "god".

My exwBPD triangulated with her "god" to make me feel like a bad person. So in her case, I do not think that god helped her... .  I think it gave her validation and and an excuse to lie, cheat, sin... .  because all is "forgiven in the eyes of christ".

None of us are this concept of god... .  and in striving to be like Jesus the natural inclination would be to forgive.

But im pretty sure Jesus would be down with you meeting somebody new that can reciprocate your love and is on the same level of consciousness with you... .  wherever that might be.

We are not martyrs.

[Lady31]

Cal,

OHHH this is a tough one here.  I know bc I have been in the same situation with my H.  People who have a different concept of who God is than you do will not give you biblical advice, so first, I would tune out any advice contrary to the Word. 

Second - it is VERY clear what God's will IS.  His will is to heal, deliver & restore your wife.  His will would be to see your marriage restored.

NOW - after that being said - it is up to US to get in line with his will.  He has given us free will and WILL NOT over ride that.  Contrary to what some people say - not ALL things that happen are the WILL of God.  If that was the case, then everyone would accept Jesus Christ and that would be it.

Since God cannot over ride a person's will, He will not force your wife to go down the path to healing & restoration.  I FIRMLY believe that recovery is ENTIRELY possible. 

BPD is like a drop in the ocean - if you believe God really parted the Red Sea, if you believe God really raised people from the dead, if you believe God really made blind eyes see ... .  then really, what is a little BPD?

The key here is finding a true balance I think in reconciling the TRUTH about what God's will is & that is he is perfectly capable of healing her mind & soul TO whether that happens or not.  (God can COMPLETELY heal the SOUL of a person just like he does the physical body.)

There is so much to go into here.  What I would do is get the book Boundaries in Marriage.  It was THE BEST BOOK HANDS DOWN that I have read for Christians in marriages with abuse and other difficult issues and how to go forward.  It does not talk about BPD specifically, but it will really help in sorting out what to do from a biblical perspective.

I pray specific scriptures over my H, using his name.  This is very powerful.  Such as:

... .  has the mind of Christ.

... .  is FREE in Jesus, & free indeed.

The eyes of ... .  's understanding HAVE been enlightened.

Father you draw ... .  unto yourself in your loving kindness.

... .  blind eyes see your truth Lord.

Father you heal ... .  's broken heart & bind up his wounds so that he can be whole in his soul and we can have a healthy relationship.

Many more - mostly on healing, deliverance & for truth to penetrate his heart & mind.

[Gaslit]

I literally laughed out loud when my pwBPD friend told me she was going to church! She was repenting for something for sure, that I later found out about.

Church, new diet, shooting range, this exercise or that, etc., etc., are just one of the many things I saw picked up and soon dropped. Just like us really!

[cal644]

I do pray for my soon to be ex daily that she may truly find God and heal.  I do find it interesting that only 3 months ago she was telling me that she couldn't find God and resented all the things we did at church.  Now 2 months latter - she is this Christian woman who has this connection with God and is turning everything over to him.

[asunder]

God has a plan for you, so the first thing I would do is to pray to Him and ask Him what He wants you to do.  He will reveal it to you in his time.  If your wife truly wants to find God, I would sit down and talk to her with this scripture in mind:

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 14:6

Ask your wife if she is truly prepared to accept Jesus Christ as her Lord and Saviour.  If she is, have her confess with her mouth the following-

She confesses that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

She confesses that she is a sinner in need of a saviour.

She confesses that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin.

She confesses that Jesus Christ lived a sinless life.

She confesses that Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay for her sins.

She confesses that Jesus Christ was resurrected by God the Father (that is, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob) on the 3rd day after His death.

She confesses that Jesus Christ ascended to the right hand of the Father after His resurrection.

Have her ask the Lord Jesus Christ to give her a new life and to heal her spirit.


Sorry if this post was too preachy for some.  I am a Christian and a believer on Jesus Christ.   I do believe that He can move the mountains.

[Mike_confused]

All:

Very helpful string.   My BPD wife is born again.   She wears it on here sleeve, constantly reminding me that my faith does not measure up to hers.  A very bold and misinformed statement really.  I have always placed my faith and trust in God;  the difference between she and I is that I am not very open with the thoughts.   She is now using her superior level of Christian faith as a reason that she should not be with me.  She gets fully involved with the activities of her/our evangelical church.  I would rather just go to services and then go about my day - I prefer to not discuss my faith with people.

As I said I am an unquestioning believer; however, I will remind anyone that has forgotten that when religion is used to justify actions terrible things happen.  Certainly not the Will of God.

Mike

[cal644]

That's the thing - I pray that God's will be done.  Honestly I think His will is for us to be together.  But only time will tell... .  I wish I knew if it was His will to have me move on.  I don't know if my values/beleifs are what's holding me back - I was in it for better or worse.  Marriage was sacred to me. 

[Rose Tiger]

The issue with faith and BPD is acknowledging sin, the things you have done in the past that need repentance.  This is sticky for a pwBPD when the coping skill is to deny and project. 

In the meantime, pray for God's will in her life and then leave it there.  Focus on your own healing and recovery.  Read proverbs about how it is better to hang out on the roof than around a cranky wife.  Read what God says about angry people.

I see that my ex does good things, he helps people move, he would work on cars for the neighbors, he would shovel walks for neighbors in poor health.  These are nice things.  Maybe that is his purpose.  It's not to be a husband, I can't expect him to be something that he just isn't skilled to do.  If you see your wife making a commitment to therapy, ok, it takes 3 to 5 years but it takes a commitment from the pwBPD.  Otherwise, focus on that still small voice that is directing you.  Ask for wisdom.  Trust Him. 

[cal644]

Thanks for the advise Rose Tiger.  She is in T now and tells me that she needs to work on herself and to find God by herself.  I like where someone said God can move mountians - because according to her that is what's inbetween her and I know a mountian - she says she doesn't know how to get over the mountian or is too afraid to try - so my only hope is that God moves that mountian for her.  I would hold on if I knew there was hope, but I don't want to put my life on hold either waiting for something that may never happen. Also, if she finds herself will she be the woman that I used to love or will she be a complete stranger?

[asunder]

All:

Very helpful string.   My BPD wife is born again.   She wears it on here sleeve, constantly reminding me that my faith does not measure up to hers.  A very bold and misinformed statement really.  I have always placed my faith and trust in God;  the difference between she and I is that I am not very open with the thoughts.   She is now using her superior level of Christian faith as a reason that she should not be with me.  She gets fully involved with the activities of her/our evangelical church.  I would rather just go to services and then go about my day - I prefer to not discuss my faith with people.

As I said I am an unquestioning believer; however, I will remind anyone that has forgotten that when religion is used to justify actions terrible things happen.  Certainly not the Will of God.

Mike

Have you spoken with your Pastor and/or church leaders?  I'm sure you are aware that if she is considering leaving you and/or acting superior to you, that directly contradicts the word of God.  If your church leaders are not willing to go to bat for you, you are in the wrong church.

[cal644]

I have spoken with our pastor and another one who is a close friend.  I have a close relationship with both of them.  My wife has also painted our pastor black because 1. he is a friend of mine and has talked to me on numerous ocassions. and 2. a few years ago he said something that she took personally and has had him painted black too (even thought what he said was harmless)

[marbleloser]

I'll give my .02.The X almost always went to church.However,if she didn't agree with something in the Bible,it was totally dismissed.If it benefitted her,she agreed.If it was difficult and/or didn't benefit her,it was totally dismissed.(Hmm... I see the black/white thinking there now).Most would agree that following Gods word is difficult at times,but we still try.We know we won't measure up,but we try.We don't completely disregard the parts we don't agree with,or have difficulty with.

For instance,we were studying the biblical place of the husband and wife.She agreed that the husband should do all of those things and more,but when it came time for the wife,well,she "just didn't believe all that."Her perception of things is completely focused on her benefit.I say this to let you know,that even if someone finds God,there is no guarantee that it will be the right way or that they'll see things as you do.The X had absolutely no problem with fabrication or falsehoods,if she was the one doing it.

None of us are perfect.We try and live right.We fall at times and pick ourselves up and try to do better.Lovingly,the price has been paid so that we don't have to be perfect.I've been where you're at.If you go back and read some of my first posts,you'll see that.My advice is to take this time for yourself.Time and distance will present a clearer picture for you.Focus on God.Talk to him.Listen to him.And,remember that the only person you can control,is yourself.

[Rose Tiger]

My ex was in therapy for a bit, unfortunately his damage is too core.  I see the board's teachings on acceptance lining up with scripture.  I accept that he has a very serious mental disorder and expecting him to be anything else is fruitless and a bit cruel to him.  Like expecting a person in a wheelchair to walk.  He just can't do it.

It's on me to take care of me.  Life and death are in the tongue, being with an abuser can be so stressful, it can tank an immune system, it can lead to serious illness.  I gave ex a lot of time to work  on his issues, he couldn't do it.  Letting him destroy my health doesn't do either of us any good.

The tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell. —James 3:6

[asunder]

Anyone can say they found God.  Giving lipservice to something is not akin to genuinely representing a particular claim.

My experience is that giving lipservice to faith is not something that is limited to those that have BPD.  A lot of people in this world are like that.

[stoic83]

My ex was in therapy for a bit, unfortunately his damage is too core.  I see the board's teachings on acceptance lining up with scripture.  I accept that he has a very serious mental disorder and expecting him to be anything else is fruitless and a bit cruel to him.  Like expecting a person in a wheelchair to walk.  He just can't do it.

It's on me to take care of me.  Life and death are in the tongue, being with an abuser can be so stressful, it can tank an immune system, it can lead to serious illness.  I gave ex a lot of time to work  on his issues, he couldn't do it.  Letting him destroy my health doesn't do either of us any good.

The tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell. —James 3:6

Rose tiger seems to have done a good job integrating religious beliefs with the contradictory nature of the BPD... .  instead of looking to "god" to heal her ex... .  In my eyes:she looks to "god" to give her the strength to realize that her ex has a mental illness and doesn't possess the innate "god-given" capabilites to treat her in a "godly way". Therefore it would be "hubris" or "over-prideful" of her to expect that one of "god's creations" should perform at levels acceptable to her when that is most likely not her ex's "intended purpose".

It's like praying for your dog to grow arms and start giving you hugs... .  it's not gonna happen. Pigs dont fly, fish can't walk, and people wBPD can't reciprocate adult love in a relationship without years and years of dedication... .  which is extremely rare. How hard is it to change yourself and your own habits? Why would you expect her to change now? Why would you want her path to curb towards yours... .  when she is clearly on a much different journey?

Go find someone else who can treat you right... .  "god" loves you too brother, and clearly this is what he wants for you... .  so it seems to me.

[pessim-optimist]

Mike,

Just wanted to encourage you re. your wife's superiority.

Your BP wife is totally out of line as it comes to the Scripture. Since she claims to be a Christian, especially the verse "he will be won without a word"  applies (and this verse applies even if her husband is an unbeliever). There's SO many other verses that talk about how a woman is supposed to behave in a marriage. It is always in respectful submission to her husband, and showing him "reverence".

Also, how does she justify wanting to leave you? If she has an "unbelieving husband" (as she might believe - I personally take your word for it that you say you are a believer), she is not supposed to leave you if you are "pleased to dwell with her". But it looks like she is not pleased to dwell with you, and that gives you an out.

[pessim-optimist]

cal:

trust in Him, he will lead you on whether it is with or without your wife.

If you feel lead to pray for her, do so. And if God does heal her, if you believe that you are supposed to be together, does that really matter if she is the same or different? I would think she would be herself, only better.

asunder:

I think that kind of sit down and talk might be very threatening and invalidating to the pwPBD if they just "found God". It might be a good gentle discussion topic down the road, but at this point, I think it would be triggering a lot of bad stuff... .  

my .02

[Mike_confused]

pessim-optimist,

thank you.   We tried the love & respect method... .  certainly biblically based.   I try to show my love but she seems to not be satisfied with any attempt I make.  As for the respect, it was absent much of the time.

I hurt for her because my wife with BPD must attempt to know everything and be everything because she is empty and lost.   Her statement to our pastor that I am not at the same level as she is was an insult.  And yet, it is not a competition - not for me anyway.  

[pessim-optimist]

Mike,

I've read the love and respect book, and I think it is basically a compromise to make things equal.

I think it is great if the woman reads it and initiates (starts doing what the book suggests), then it will affect her man and he will change also. Sadly, I don't think it necessarily works the other way around (and the author even published some of those frustrated letters from males regarding this). It could also work, if BOTH wholeheartedly embrace it, as it INCLUDES the wife.

But since the hierarchy of roles in the Bible is clearly set up top-down: Father-Son-man-woman (not from a value staNPDoint, but more like, whose job is what and who is responsible for what), it cannot be "circle" type of deal that the author describes.

I think this concept is highly misunderstood in general and it brings about a lot of suffering.

[asunder]

Mike,

I've read the love and respect book, and I think it is basically a compromise to make things equal.

I think it is great if the woman reads it and initiates (starts doing what the book suggests), then it will affect her man and he will change also. Sadly, I don't think it necessarily works the other way around (and the author even published some of those frustrated letters from males regarding this). It could also work, if BOTH wholeheartedly embrace it, as it INCLUDES the wife.

But since the hierarchy of roles in the Bible is clearly set up top-down: Father-Son-man-woman (not from a value staNPDoint, but more like, whose job is what and who is responsible for what), it cannot be "circle" type of deal that the author describes.

I think this concept is highly misunderstood in general and it brings about a lot of suffering.

Very well said.

[Mike_confused]

I must say... .  no kidding.  I tried my best to implement my portion... .  but she constantly reminded me that I needed to do a better job before she (my uBPD wife) would feel like doing hers.

That is when I started searching for what was wrong with the way she is wired.