Not being a therapist

[ZigZiglar]

My wife stopped taking her anti-psychotics, which resulted in a series of dysfunctional behavioral patterns and numerous conflicts. After our most recent discussion, she has admitted she needs to be back on them and is seeing her psych tomorrow. It's been a rough couple of weeks. Anyway... .  

I am getting better at validating, which is helping. I am getting better at being consistent in defending my boundaries in a respectful and diplomatic manner. I am making some progress in getting my wife to understand, in the very least, that the results of certain antisocial behaviors will be consistent and that she won't like them. So I am seeing a pattern of improvement in some areas thanks to the changes I've made in myself.

She, however, does not like "the new me". She wants the old me back. The new me doesn't put up with abuse, doesn't cave in to blackmail, doesn't grovel or put my own values and needs on the back-burner. The way she sees it, the new me is some new age self help hippy. I agreed that I would try to keep the hippy style dialects to a minimum, but that the concepts behind it are all about improving our relationship.

Now there is some context... .  It is so blatantly obvious to me that one of the most prevalent issues is my wife's aggressive avoidance of accountability. Now that I am trying to draw a solid line in the sand to define where she ends and I start and stop soaking up her problems and taking accountability for her actions, she is noticing a pattern and constantly demanding explanations or reasoning for my stances. I am finding it nearly impossible to provide a reasonably transparent response without sounding like a therapist. The fact is that she needs to look at her own involvement in the negative events in her life and if she refuses to do so, she will only perpetuate her suffering. It is not my role to educate her, but she is forcing me into such a role so often and this is only one example.

She acknowledges and I feel that her therapist is great, but she needs to be seeing her twice a week, not once a month. Justifying my behavioral changes (for example, not groveling and running back to her after she feels abandoned because she has abused me and I refuse to talk to her) is something that I feel she deserves from me, but it's so hard not explain things on the level of understanding I have. For example, I know that she treats me disrespectfully because it is herself she truly disrespects and she is so enmeshed that she can't separate us, but you can't even say that sentence out aloud without imagining yourself crossing your legs on a deep studded leather chair, can you?

Ideas? Cheers.

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[waverider]

I am finding it nearly impossible to provide a reasonably transparent response without sounding like a therapist. The fact is that she needs to look at her own involvement in the negative events in her life and if she refuses to do so, she will only perpetuate her suffering. It is not my role to educate her, but she is forcing me into such a role so often and this is only one example.

Just recently had similar discussion about why my boundaries are different now than they used to be. I simply resorted to saying that allowing/doing XYZ causes me mental stress and anxiety, I dont find it healthy so I am not going to do it. Much the same way I wouldnt expected her to hold a spider in her hand. I cant see the issue, but she would feel anxious doing that, so I dont expect her too. It is the same thing in reverse.

You dont need facts or logical explanations or you head off on a negotiating tangent. It makes you uncomfortable and so thats all the reason you need.


Be careful trying to give psychiatric reasoning, they find that hard enough coming from a T, from you it would be taken as an accusation to be denied and defended.

[ZigZiglar]

So how should I respond when an incident has occurred where I was at fault at some point during a discussion (I do slip up occasionally when backed against a wall), but she escalated it way out of proportion and got abusive or started making threats and I refused to allow the conversation to continue. She also kidnapped our tolder who I have in my care and pre-emptively called the police on me making false accusations etc. Then the next day when I still don't want to talk to her, she plays the abandonment card to try and guilt trip me into coming and comforting her (which in her books would involve me taking accountability for her contribution to the situation and also being her emotional punching bag as she tries to transfer her pain away from herself).

I told her that it is unhealthy for me to talk to her when she is feeling that way and that I have the right to choose when I am comfortable or feel emotionally equipped to talk to her. I also told her that she needs to acknowledge her role in the events that lead to me not wanting to be near her. And ultimately I told her that she needs to learn to make herself feel better. Now this definitely appears to be advice from a therapist, but I don't know how else to get her to realise that it's not my responsibility to sooth her when she hurts, especially not when it follows an abusive engagement with me.

Cheers

[waverider]

I told her that it is unhealthy for me to talk to her when she is feeling that way and that I have the right to choose when I am comfortable or feel emotionally equipped to talk to her. I also told her that she needs to acknowledge her role in the events that lead to me not wanting to be near her. And ultimately I told her that she needs to learn to make herself feel better. Now this definitely appears to be advice from a therapist, but I don't know how else to get her to realise that it's not my responsibility to sooth her when she hurts, especially not when it follows an abusive engagement with me.

Cheers

This sounds like you phrased it as demands of she should do ABC rather than you wont play ball because she is doing XYZ.

Do ABC is a demand.(she needs to acknowledge)

You are not doing/allowing something because of XYZ behavior is boundary reinforcement.(ie your didn't see her because of lack of acknowledgement of her part)

Also not always your role to soothe her instead of she has to soothe herself (focusing on what you are doing rather than what you are asking her to do)

It is up to her to work out that XYZ gives negative results whereas ABC would get better response for her. You directly demanding ABC will trigger auto defense/denial behavior.

Do you think something along that principle may suit better?

I find I get a lot better results if I can refrain from making demands, but instead sticking to what I will or wont do and she can work it out for herself how to fit around me (for a change !). That way she is retaining a degree of control, rather than being controlled. I know its only perception, but perception is what we are dealing with most of the time.

[ZigZiglar]

Thanks for the advice, waverider. Helpful and insightful as usual. Cheers

[Grey Kitty]

You have got some good advice. Let me add another little idea for you:

Remember not to Justify Argue Defend or Explain (JADE) on stuff.

If you have new boundaries which you are enforcing, you do not have to explain them to anybody else's satisfaction. Just enforce them.

One of my favorite ones for stopping an argument is something like this: "*I* am not in a state where I can discuss this right now."

She may be totally dysregulated and impossible to deal with at the time, but telling her that won't help. And it probably is starting to drive you bonkers and make it impossible for you to validate or otherwise be reasonable, so there is plenty of truth in it.  The best part is that, she can't really argue with you and say "You can to talk about this reasonably right now!"