Mission Impossible?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

A summary of events and lessons learned so far:

I have been married to a uN/BPDw for almost 18 years. We own assets here and in her country. We also operate an online business together that currently cannot operate w/o us both. She has a job in her home country that's closely tied to the business.

Early last week stbx arrived from her home country where she's been living away from our S16, D17 and me for going on 5 years.

Upon arrival at the airport she gets served divorce papers and with an order of protection. A mutual friend helps her to understand what's happening etc.

I reserve a hotel for her and our mutual friend helps her to rent a car.

The very next day she retains an L. So I have 2 L's retained at $10K each. Ouch!

She goes shopping and out to eat with our kids. Mostly with our S16. Our D17 is avoiding her. With both kids, not surprisingly, she's discussing adult related issues which she is not supposed to do. Likely she can not help it because of her disorder. She's also reassuring them that things will be OK which is very good. She tells them "mama and papa love you and will cooperate to support your future" etc.

A week after her arrival we meet a divorce therapist. Both our Ls recommended it. I posted about that experience previously.

The next day we met with our Ls and another business L to discuss how to maintain the business. She makes a clear declaration in front of everyone that she trusts me and wants my continued involvement with the business. Good sign.

The day after the business meeting our S16 picked stbx up from her Ls office. They went to a coffee shop and she persuaded him to write an email to her L stating that an event noted in the order of protection about him was not true. He wrote it with her and sent it on the spot from his iphone which she bought him. She put him in a tough situation and of course he doesn't know how to say no. She asked our D17 to do the same thing. She refused. He sister and mother issued statements refuting and/or downplaying my allegations too. Not surprising.

The events noted in the order of protection are really bothering her. She wanted me to retract them from the record and my L told me strictly not to do that. It could put me in a weak postion should I need to get an order of protection in the future. Also, it would look as if I made it all up! My L suggested a compromise for the sake of trending toward ways to cooperate for the benefit of the kids and as an extension the business. My L said that my Stbx can state on the record that she disagrees with many of the allegations in the order and to make the order a sealed document so it is not a public record - only the Ls and the judge can see it. We need to have the order modified to allow she and I to communicate by phone, skype, etc.

At this point she wants some kind of small victory. My L told me after meeting stbx that she seems less motivated by money than she is by status and appearances. Which is very true. We need to leverage her desire to keep up appearances and to maintain her status to the hilt.

The hearing for the temporary order of protection is next Tuesday. Stbx leaves Saturday morning. Our Ls are working out the language for the "Stipulation for Dismissal of Temporary Order of Protection and Issuance of No Contact Order." I understand this needs to be taken care of. It served it's purpose to protect the kids and me from her under the circumstances. She will not be able to visit the house this time. This provides an incentive for her next visit.

The big storm has passed. There's going to be numerous ups and downs ahead. It was made very clear to her that I will not live under the same roof with her again. Also, that I can disengage anytime she starts to rant and rage.

I'm making arrangements for the kids to get some counseling. This has been very, very difficult for them - especially for our S16. He knows his mom has "issues" but he still loves her and wants to help her. He told me he really wants to visit a T. This is good. I told him a T will help him process his feelings and develop coping skills and tools to better deal with his mom in the future. I told him that things are really hard right now but he will emerge from this situation a stronger more capable person.

Lessons learned so (many more in the coming months I'm certain):

To disengage with a pwN/BPD carefully develop an action plan and stick to it

In my case it was clearly best to have my stbx served w/o her knowledge - the alternative was unthinkable

This site is absolutely invaluable - it allows you to learn from others' hard won wisdom and to clarify your own thinking in writing

Attorneys matter - mine has been amazing - you get what you pay for

Develop a support system of friends and family

The kids have to be your priority - keep them safe and get them help

Meet with a T

Exercise to deal with the stress and to sleep better

Hang in there and understand that it's going to be a rough ride but you'll make it

I can almost see a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel.

[Jai Yen]

A summary of events and lessons learned so far:

I have been married to a uN/BPDw for almost 18 years. We own assets here and in her country. We also operate an online business together that currently cannot operate w/o us both. She has a job in her home country that's closely tied to the business.

Early last week stbx arrived from her home country where she's been living away from our S16, D17 and me for going on 5 years.

Upon arrival at the airport she gets served divorce papers and with an order of protection. A mutual friend helps her to understand what's happening etc.

I reserve a hotel for her and our mutual friend helps her to rent a car.

The very next day she retains an L. So I have 2 L's retained at $10K each. Ouch!

She goes shopping and out to eat with our kids. Mostly with our S16. Our D17 is avoiding her. With both kids, not surprisingly, she's discussing adult related issues which she is not supposed to do. Likely she can not help it because of her disorder. She's also reassuring them that things will be OK which is very good. She tells them "mama and papa love you and will cooperate to support your future" etc.

A week after her arrival we meet a divorce therapist. Both our Ls recommended it. I posted about that experience previously.

The next day we met with our Ls and another business L to discuss how to maintain the business. She makes a clear declaration in front of everyone that she trusts me and wants my continued involvement with the business. Good sign.

The day after the business meeting our S16 picked stbx up from her Ls office. They went to a coffee shop and she persuaded him to write an email to her L stating that an event noted in the order of protection about him was not true. He wrote it with her and sent it on the spot from his iphone which she bought him. She put him in a tough situation and of course he doesn't know how to say no. She asked our D17 to do the same thing. She refused. He sister and mother issued statements refuting and/or downplaying my allegations too. Not surprising.

The events noted in the order of protection are really bothering her. She wanted me to retract them from the record and my L told me strictly not to do that. It could put me in a weak postion should I need to get an order of protection in the future. Also, it would look as if I made it all up! My L suggested a compromise for the sake of trending toward ways to cooperate for the benefit of the kids and as an extension the business. My L said that my Stbx can state on the record that she disagrees with many of the allegations in the order and to make the order a sealed document so it is not a public record - only the Ls and the judge can see it. We need to have the order modified to allow she and I to communicate by phone, skype, etc.

At this point she wants some kind of small victory. My L told me after meeting stbx that she seems less motivated by money than she is by status and appearances. Which is very true. We need to leverage her desire to keep up appearances and to maintain her status to the hilt.

The hearing for the temporary order of protection is next Tuesday. Stbx leaves Saturday morning. Our Ls are working out the language for the "Stipulation for Dismissal of Temporary Order of Protection and Issuance of No Contact Order." I understand this needs to be taken care of. It served it's purpose to protect the kids and me from her under the circumstances. She will not be able to visit the house this time. This provides an incentive for her next visit.

The big storm has passed. There's going to be numerous ups and downs ahead. It was made very clear to her that I will not live under the same roof with her again. Also, that I can disengage anytime she starts to rant and rage.

I'm making arrangements for the kids to get some counseling. This has been very, very difficult for them - especially for our S16. He knows his mom has "issues" but he still loves her and wants to help her. He told me he really wants to visit a T. This is good. I told him a T will help him process his feelings and develop coping skills and tools to better deal with his mom in the future. I told him that things are really hard right now but he will emerge from this situation a stronger more capable person.

Lessons learned so (many more in the coming months I'm certain):

To disengage with a pwN/BPD carefully develop an action plan and stick to it

In my case it was clearly best to have my stbx served w/o her knowledge - the alternative was unthinkable

This site is absolutely invaluable - it allows you to learn from others' hard won wisdom and to clarify your own thinking in writing

Attorneys matter - mine has been amazing - you get what you pay for

Develop a support system of friends and family

The kids have to be your priority - keep them safe and get them help

Meet with a T

Exercise to deal with the stress and to sleep better

Hang in there and understand that it's going to be a rough ride but you'll make it

I can almost see a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel.

[Forestaken]

Jai Yen:

What have you done with her stuff since she is not allowed back into the home?

My s2bx is Mexican (naturalize US citixen) and learned about the divorce after I had the wheels set in motion. She flew back on the next plane when she learned.  S22 & D19 have nothing to do with their mother.

Yesterday (Valentine's day), I happily was boxing up alot of her stuff to plan to move it to the garage.  I was shocked with the amount of things she bought but never opened/used.

The emotional tunnel is done for me, now is the legal/financial.  Less scary more costly. Even though I'm gonna take a major hit on this (married 24 years).  I know I can survive it in due time.

[Jai Yen]

Forestaken:

We haven't worked out the "stuff" issue yet. She indicated that wants to keep the house until the kids are in college in about 2.5 more years. Maybe we can maybe not depends on the survival of our business and how we decide to divid assets. She's already moved a lot of her stuff to Japan. There's still a ton of dishes (she loves dishes), art (not too valuable) etc... .  I'm sure as we move forward we'll have to come up with a plan for "her" stuff.

You're right on about the emotional tunnel winding down and the legal/financial stuff coming up. I with you though that's a walk in the park compared with dealing with her ranting and raging.

My kids still want a relationship with their mother. They'll never have to live with her for extended amounts of time again so I think they can learn ways to deal with her. My fear is she's moving from me as her emotional dumping ground and target to my S16! That bothers me. Another dicy problem to work on.

[Matt]

I think you're doing great, and thanks very much for your list of lessons - a ton of good stuff there.

Lots of our members read but don't post, and I bet those lessons are helping a bunch of people you'll never know!

One thing you wrote bothers me:  "She will not be able to visit the house this time. This provides an incentive for her next visit."  Do you mean that next time you might let her stay in the house?  I think you should move things forward - which means more distance - not backward.  Going back to old ways will add risk.

"My fear is she's moving from me as her emotional dumping ground and target to my S16!"  I think that's almost certainly true.  Since S16 is with you most of the time, and if you can help him get into counseling - or maybe see the counselor with him some of the time - I think the risk isn't too high.  But my SD23 is still enmeshed with her mom, even after her mom was diagnosed with BPD and other stuff, and may always be, which is sad.  But she's doing OK... .  

[livednlearned]

Jai Yen,

Thanks for posting your lessons learned! I fully endorse every single item you mentioned -- it's good to look at that list and think about what the foundations are for moving forward. You're doing awesome 

My son is much younger, but he suffers from some of those same traits you refer to in your S16. He desperately wants to avoid conflict, and is only just beginning to learn how to take care of himself, much less stand up for himself, especially with N/BPDx. A really good T helps, and of course, the distance -- but it isn't be easy. What I learned is that I had to help S11's T connect the dots and also do a lot of work with S11 on my own. T is good, but you are even more important, especially what you model for him.

[Jai Yen]

My stbx left this morning actually feeling good about this whole thing. Unbelievable! I know!

Yesterday was amazing in terms of how everything fell into place. In the morning stbx emailed me a 5 page manifesto trying to win me back. Crazy, I had this women served in the airport and prevented her from staying at our home for 10 days! I did not reply.

We had a divorce therapy meeting a 3pm. My plan was to again make it crystal clear to her that our marriage is over... .  for good! I get an email from stbx which was forwarded from her L making the statement that our D16 had written an email refuting an item about him that helped get the order of protection in place. Basically if I don't stricken certain items from the order of protect our S16 and D17 would have to have their own lawyers and we'd all have to go to court. My L and I stood firm that we will not strike those items from the record. It greatly reduces my ability to get an order in the future should I need to and makes me look like I made the whole thing up.

I, of course, immediately called my L. She told me she would get back to me just after the divorce therapy section. The divorce therapist was aware of the conflict related to the order of protection. She basically said that we both had our say in it. I stand behind my statements or my perception of events and stbx was able to counter those with her own perception of events. The divorce T reminded us that after we sign the document - Stipulation for Dismissal of Temporary Order of Protection and Issuance of No Contact Order - it will be sealed and not made public - ever - as long as we behave from this point on. She went on to say how this situation will be totally out of your control if the kids are involved. It will be slow, expensive and painful. She reminded us that the kids are like Switzerland. The should not have to take sides. Clearly stbx forgot that! On the spot my stbx and me agreed to sign the paper and move on. We also agree to continue the business and articulated how and when we would meet to discuss business (once a week via Skype for 60 ~ 90 minutes).

For years we have this amazing ability to compartmentalize our issues. She could rant and rage at me one day and the next we could have a business, attend a kid related event, and host a party as if nothing even happened! From now on though she understands that if I get even a little stressed by her I can simply end the meeting. I will consistently maintain this boundary for as long as we have to communicate... .  Probably for the next 3 ~ 5 years for the business, asset division and to make decisions for the kids.


While we were attending the divorce therapy meeting behind the scenes our Ls worked out the language on the Stipulation for Dismissal of Temporary Order of Protection and Issuance of No Contact Order. My L read it to me as I drove over to her Ls office after the meeting.

[Jai Yen]

I hit post instead of preview... .  

So after the meeting we signed the paper in stbx's L's office and then had a 90 minute business meeting together with our mutual friend in attendance. We actually laughed and had a good time during the meeting. I slipped and called her "honey" she said that's OK and our friend laughed. I said old habit and I told her from now on she'll refer to me as Mr. so and so. She said how about Mr. A**hole- we all laughed again. We agreed during this very productive meeting to cooperate to benefit the kids. I told her we must transition from married people to business partners and effective co-parents. We said our good byes with a since of optimize. Don't worry I'm not letting my guard down with her ever again! "Boundaries" is my middle name! 

She had dinner last night with both kids and they told me she was in a good mood and excited to get back to work. She didn't dump on them and told them she and I would cooperate. She also talked to them about their future and was encouraging. Keep in mind folks this all happened in 10 days! It does speak to her amazing ability to be function at a high level. It also speaks to the incredible team of people I accessed that helped me determine a plan of action and gave me the courage to follow the plan. Again, it ain't over but the trend line is moving in the right direction.

[Matt]

Wow - this sounds excellent!

Looking back just a few weeks, you had a very complicated set of issues - all the issues most of us have, plus the international aspect.

In just a few weeks, you developed a fairly detailed plan, and executed it carefully, and got very good results - legal stuff looking good, business arrangements probably good, kids doing OK (though stressed by it all of course), and you were able to end it on a courteous note, but without letting down your guard.

Congratulations!

[Jai Yen]

Matt, i want to personally thank you. You're consistent input and carefully phrased questions and suggestions really helped me to clarify my thinking which lead to useful action.

The mind of a pwN/BPD is amazing. I liken it to trying to comprehend an alien being. 

Anyway, I'm already lining up Ts for the kids and working with the Ls on the business and assets. More hurdles ahead but for the first time in a year (since I realized definitely I need out of this marriage) I feel like I can relax a little.