Confused & Sad

[Parents! Get help here!]

My wife and I are at a point where we are no longer happy in our home. I fear that my wife may have a nervous breakdown.  Our BPD-D25 has been under treatment since her first suicide attempt at 16 and has never left home.  She graduated college in 2012 and since then she has gone downhill. She received a DUI, attempted suicide again, had forced hospitalization, has not found full time employment, and is in a relationship with someone who is also an alcoholic and not currently working.  Currently she has made some strides forward in that she has a part time job, attending DUI programs, AA meetings, therapy, and as far as we know is not drinking or drugging.  However, she broke one of our rules of having her boyfriend over while we were at work.  She is also locking her door and sleeping for days, raging at us, cursing, being hateful, and making our life difficult emotionally and financially due to the DUI.  We have threatened to kick her out in the past for breaking rules but have never carried through due to her promises of improving.  This time we have given her a firm date of the beginning of next month. 

Does one kick their adult child out of their home if the child has no place to go?  Life here is miserable at times with her but I could never forgive myself if kicking her out causes something bad to happen to her.  What does a parent do?  I really need some help with this decision.  I have suggested to my D that she, I and her Mom sit down with someone her doctor recommends to discuss the current situation and to help mediate a solution.  My D has refused this suggestion and I am inclined to kick her out.  Is there a right answer here?  Please help.

[cuckoosnest56]

My wife and I are at a point where we are no longer happy in our home. I fear that my wife may have a nervous breakdown.  Our BPD-D25 has been under treatment since her first suicide attempt at 16 and has never left home.  She graduated college in 2012 and since then she has gone downhill. She received a DUI, attempted suicide again, had forced hospitalization, has not found full time employment, and is in a relationship with someone who is also an alcoholic and not currently working.  Currently she has made some strides forward in that she has a part time job, attending DUI programs, AA meetings, therapy, and as far as we know is not drinking or drugging.  However, she broke one of our rules of having her boyfriend over while we were at work.  She is also locking her door and sleeping for days, raging at us, cursing, being hateful, and making our life difficult emotionally and financially due to the DUI.  We have threatened to kick her out in the past for breaking rules but have never carried through due to her promises of improving.  This time we have given her a firm date of the beginning of next month. 

Does one kick their adult child out of their home if the child has no place to go?  Life here is miserable at times with her but I could never forgive myself if kicking her out causes something bad to happen to her.  What does a parent do?  I really need some help with this decision.  I have suggested to my D that she, I and her Mom sit down with someone her doctor recommends to discuss the current situation and to help mediate a solution.  My D has refused this suggestion and I am inclined to kick her out.  Is there a right answer here?  Please help.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Survive2012]

Hello Cuckoosnest,

I am really sorry you are undergoing such a terrible situation. I have no answer, although I understand your feelings. I guess I would really feel like kicking her out of home but then, no, of course it is too difficult. I have read a book about a mom and dad changing the doors keys and letting their son out but they had two smaller kids and it was either the small kids or the adult one.They chose to save the two younger ones.

I hope someone on this board has better advice for you than me.

Sorry for not being helpful.

Be strong.

Survive

[Kate4queen]

My son kept threatening to leave from the age of 16 and that thought paralyzed me with fear for years and made our family accept being held hostage to his rages and drug use and demonizing our other children. Eventually, we came to realize when he hit 21 that it really was him or the rest of our family. I just couldn't bear to watch him destroy another one of my younger children with his splitting and power brokering and breaking down their confidence so he could feel good about himself.

So when he stormed out on his 21st we let him and we didn't go down on our knees and ask him back.

It was the most heartrending awful decision I have ever had to make as a mother, but it really felt like a matter of survival. I seriously thought one of us was going to either drop dead of a heart attack from the stress or do something violent.

We were lucky in that we knew where he was going and we know that he is safe. Sometimes it surprises me how well he is managing to cope without us enabling him. And our house and other kids? A place of peace and love again.

I can't advise you what to do in your situation other than find help to get her alternative accommodation and out of your house and then let her live her own life. She might surprise you. You can't fix her and you deserve a life as well.

[jellibeans]

certainly a difficult decision... .  Can she support herself? If not can you help director to services so she can get help. Is there a way you can help her get set up at a new place? It is obvious it is time for her to stand on her own two feet but I think if you participate in the transition it could be good for all of you all.

I think you need to put the guilt behind you... .  she is 25 and needs to be living on her own. It will be good for her and it will probably make her feel good about herself. Does she have any friends that she could share a place with? Approach this situation with calm and without angry and I hope the results will be good... .  I know it is easier said than done... .  good luck

[jojospal]

Glad you are here posting. Many of us here have had the exact same question and similar feelings about our adult children moving out of the family home. It is scary for us and for our children.  The truth is, yes, sometimes they do fail. Other times, they do well and make us even a bit proud.

You must recognise that you have been enabling her to live an idle life.  That you stated : her DUI has cost you financially.

Instead of using the term Kicking Her Out, try, "easing her into her own,independent living situation."

Be willing to help her apply for social benefits, maybe agree to pay for her first and last month's rent on a studio apartment. Help shop, even second hand stores, for furnature and houshold basics.

It can help you to know, that if she does fail to pay rent and loses the apartment, that you didn't just put her out on the street to fend for herself but, it will force her to admit that she does have to take personal responsibility.

Your daughter managed to complete college? I am in awe. My dd31 didn't make it through high school, and is working at a convenience store, the first job she's had in about 8 years. She is doing that because she has run off all the men in her life who are no longer able to support her. Basically, she is working because she must in order to eat.

I want to add too, it isn't easy. It takes lots of practise to be a hard a$$. It starts by setting boundaries for ourselves and being firm not to cross them.

My H and I enjoy our peaceful home now. It's been over ten years since she has lived with us.

[cuckoosnest56]

Thank you all so much for your comments.  My dd25 at this time cannot support herself financially.  She has a new part time job waitressing that doesn’t give her a lot of hours and the pay is very little.  As of now she seems to be willing to sit down with us and a therapist from her doctor’s practice.  We hope that in this session that we can establish firm boundaries that will allow us to keep our sanity and have L still at home with us until we can transition her out into her own place.   We would be willing to help L with rent if she had several part time jobs or a full time job.  L states that we don’t understand how difficult it is for her to work and for her to find a job.  I sometimes feel that she uses her illness as a crutch and is lazy.  Does BPD and depression disable someone to the degree that they cannot work and earn an income?  She was able to earn a BS degree with high grades although it was a struggle.     My wife and I are also going to attend a class next month for families of those with BPD.  Anyway thanks for your care and comments.

[opheliasmom]

Dear Cucckoos Nest,

Sorry that you are going through this. It seems like you have already answered some of your own questions.  All BPD's functions at a different level some are capable of work and family and some will never be.  That your daughter completed college attests to her abilities.  If you and your spouse are not already going to Al Anon I would highly recommend it.  There you will find people who will support you and that are familiar with addictions issues.  BPD and addiction seem to go hand in hand.  Examine your boundaries and set them.  When I started setting boundaries with my addict dwBPD things got worse before they got better.  However, now that she knows that I won't  tolerate drug use in my home and she must follow certain rules there is more order in my home.  She lived in a squalid, drug infested neighborhood for three months before she decided that using heroin wasn't worth it.  The hardest thing I ever did was endure those three months knowing where she was but it may have helped her accept responsiblity for her own choices.  I have also accepted that her recent changes may be temporary.  Mental illness and addiction never go away.  Learn to take care of yourself.  Good luck.

[qcarolr]

cuckoosnest - I agree with my whole heart that this is the most difficult decision a parent has to make. We evicted our D when she was 23 as we could just not take it any longer - druggie bf's, her raging and blaming. It is a long story -- and with lots of learning, practicing, etc. things have been getting better. There is hope for your situaiton too. There are many loving parents here in similar situations.

What kind of family group are you and your wife attending? I hope this group gives you both the support you need to be connected to each other for the courage and strength for this next stage of life with your D. It is especially hard when suicide is a part of the past. Reading you intro post, it sounds like you have been very proactive in educating yourself and advocating for your D.

There are a lot of resources here as well. Have you read the book "Overcoming BPD", Valerie Porr? This is a good guide for families in understanding BPD based on the newest research and learning the skills to remain connected while figuring out how to protect your own mental and physical health. The keys I have learned since learning of the BPD dx in 2009 include taking care of my own needs first, even when this feels selfish. It includes figuring out what my values are and how to discover the boundaries that protect those values. It sounds like you have done some of this work already - and enforcing them is hard. I worked very hard to learn the skill of Radical Acceptance -- ie. unconditional acceptance of who my is and that I have no control of changing her behaviors. I can put opportunities there for her - like you are doing by offering to help her transistion out of your home. I read and read and practice and practice validation skills. This is key to staying connected in a healthy way with my D, and letting go when needed. A good resource for this is "I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better", Lundberg - a very practical, inexpensive guide to validation. It is very inexpensive used at Amazon.com

You ask what could be driving your D's downward sprial? This is always a guess, even for her. She graduated in 2012 from college. Could the lack of structure that school provided be a contributor to her current dysregulation? The stress of looking for work? The pressures to 'be an adult'? A lot could be going on with her. I am so glad that she seems willing to work together with you and the pdoc or T on working out a new living situation. Has you D participated in DBT skills training or therapy? How did she respond to this? It could be these skills are in her brain, but she is blocked from using them right now living in her distressing emotions. There is hope with her willingness to work with you both and a professional to make a plan to move out. It will be hard for all of you. It is important for her to do this. She can succeed - you can find ways to gather your own strength and courage so you can be there in healthy ways to connect with her. It is not abanodonment to ask her to leave, even if she believes that it is.

My D gets food stamps and some other public assistance. While she was living homeless (yes, we kicked her out onto the street - just could not take the abuse anymore, could not think of any soluitons with her in our face daily) there were many resources she could turn to. She chose to blame me and project all her woes on me, and there were more rules to participate in these programs than there had been in our house. She was also on probation for DUI when we kicked her out, and we withdrew all financial support for the probation. She was not complying with the requirements. The PO gave her about 9 months of "2nd chances" before returning her to court - 30 days in jail to complete the sentence. She is currently on probation for a new DWAI, that she believes she is innocent of, and has skipped the past month of everything - UA's, classes, treatment. We will see what happens at the PO meeting Thursday. She is doing her stuff this week. She is in such anxiety of going to jail again - yet does not do what is needed to stay out of jail. YIIII! I have to let go of this - it is her outcome. All I can do is be here to remind her of her appt and offer a ride. And to listen without judgement or giving advice when she is in a place to talk with me - which is often these days. Validation in practice. Sorry if I got off into my story too much here.

Hang in there. Keep coming back. Find ways to be kind to yourself and your wife - you need each other. I will be keeping you in my thoughts and prayers and look forward to hearing how things are going.

qcr  

[Someday . . .]

As others have said; a lot of us have been in a similar situation.  What we did was to get my daughter (also 25) on Medicare and Medicaid (she qualified for both).  So as someone else suggested that might be something that you might want to look into . . though her having a job and income will make it more difficult to get benefits.  Also she should not have any savings over $2,000.00 (or is it $2,500?).  You will need a fair amount of documentation from therapists, psychiatrists etc... .    Again, with her working right now it could sabotage her getting any benefits, though the good news is if she works a total of a certain number of months (I don't know the exact number) AND then quits due to her illness then she will qualify for both Medicare and Medicaid (and that is your best case scenario).

Here's my experience, I know about 20 families that have daughters with a diagnosis of BPD, not one of their daughters is able to hold down a full time job.  In fact, I remember that I saw a report once which stated that  a VERY low percentage of people with BPD are able to have a full time job.  From my understanding even a part time job is something to celebrate.  I feel that it is important to listen to your daughter if she tells you that it is difficult to work and for her to find a job.  I personally don't feel that she is using her illness as an excuse.  I remember when my daughter was 16 and I asked her to do what I thought, was 3  minor jobs (water 5 plants, make her bed, and put her dishes in the dishwasher).  She said that it stressed her out to do them and I asked her "Are you lazy or can you truly not do that?"  She looked me directly in the eye and said "I really can't do that, there,  now are you happy?"  Of course, each person is different and some BPD's certainly function at a higher level than others.  You may get some insight from the therapist or psychiatrist what they feel that she is capable of.

Do you have some sort of housing in your area/county that are for mentally ill?  Definitely worth checking into.  You may want to also contact your county NAMI office for any resources that might be available in your area.

Good luck!  You're right, 'throwing' a mentally ill person out just doesn't feel right, and yet, at the same time, living in stress and chaos certainly is no way for family members to live.  May you find a peaceful solution, please keep us posted!

[Someday . . .]

I absolutely do not want to undermine what Opheliasmom said "That your daughter finished college attests to her abilities".  I just wanted you to know that I know girls with BPD who graduated from UCLA,  Boston University,  Loyola (Chicago),  Davis (CA), and one who graduated from an Ivy League school and became a lawyer.  The one who graduated from UCLA is in her late 20's and works as a stripper, the one from Boston is now 35 and has been functioning for the past 8 years at a VERY low level (she was able to hold a job for a year or two!), the one from Loyola is now 24 and is having great difficulty maintaining a part time job, the one from Davis just turned 30 this month and has been having a VERY rough time ever since she graduated (though she did have a job briefly) and the one who graduated from the Ivy League school and is now a lawyer . . actually has not been working for the past six months - she's going through a rough spell and her parents are not quite sure if she will be able to go back.  I realize that everyone is very different.  I do feel that being able to graduate from college may not be any indication of future abilities. 

Again, good luck, you and your family are in my thoughts and prayers   .

[opheliasmom]

Someday,

I would agree with you.  Everyone is different.  College performance doesn't even predict success in non BPD kids.  It would have been more accurate to say that she does have some abilities.  Geez I sound like a politician.   

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders