Seeing Improvement - Switch to Staying Board?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hello,

I am happy to report that things seem to be improving in the relationship with my uBPDh from whom I am separated.  We are on a streak with no arguments, acting out behaviors, etc. for almost two weeks.  We have been talking honestly for over a month and I have been practicing the tools from this site, from my therapist, and books.  So far I have read "Stop Walking on Eggshells," "I Hate You Don't Leave me," and am in the process of "Loving Someone with BPD."  We also started reading "The High Conflict Couple" together out loud, one chapter per week.  We have been seeing each other 2 to 3 nights per week.

A while back I sent him a BPD questionnaire but didn't tell him what it was.  He told me he could identify with and answer yes to most of the questions.  He also said he could see some of it in me too but not as much.  I also sent him some articles from this site.  Then a couple of weeks ago I told him I think he has BPD traits, gave him examples of his BPD behavior from our relationship and from what he's told me of the past, and told him the questionnaire that he identified with was for BPD.  I also told him the things from his early childhood may have contributed to it.  He really listened and told me he would read books with me. 

I know that most recommend not sharing suspicions of BPD with the pwBPD, but it seemed like it was time to get things out on the table.  I did it with love, not blame, and I am not trying to be his therapist.  He had already seen the books I have been reading.

He says he can see changes in me and my communication methods.  And I can see the changes in him.  We have been together for almost 2 years and just had our one year wedding anniversary.

He has not quit drinking and says he wants to cut back rather than quit, but hasn't defined what cutting back is.  He does not drink at my house or when we go out for dinner.  He drinks at his house and I do not drink with him, where I did some in the past.  I can tell he has cut back when I am at his house and when I talk with him on the phone in the evenings.  I am not sure what to think about cutting back, whether it is realistic, sustainable, etc., but I am willing to be patient and see what happens.

I don't know if this is just another recycle or if it is real change.  He says he finally knows what he wants and that he wants to share life with me.  Cautious optimism and radical acceptance. So I guess we will see.  I do love him and see his wonderful qualities, as well as his weaknesses.  If it weren't for the wonderful qualities, there would be no question.  And I guess I will stay on the Undecided board for the time being unless someone thinks I should change to Staying?

(No Longer in a) Daze

[daze]

Hello,

I am happy to report that things seem to be improving in the relationship with my uBPDh from whom I am separated.  We are on a streak with no arguments, acting out behaviors, etc. for almost two weeks.  We have been talking honestly for over a month and I have been practicing the tools from this site, from my therapist, and books.  So far I have read "Stop Walking on Eggshells," "I Hate You Don't Leave me," and am in the process of "Loving Someone with BPD."  We also started reading "The High Conflict Couple" together out loud, one chapter per week.  We have been seeing each other 2 to 3 nights per week.

A while back I sent him a BPD questionnaire but didn't tell him what it was.  He told me he could identify with and answer yes to most of the questions.  He also said he could see some of it in me too but not as much.  I also sent him some articles from this site.  Then a couple of weeks ago I told him I think he has BPD traits, gave him examples of his BPD behavior from our relationship and from what he's told me of the past, and told him the questionnaire that he identified with was for BPD.  I also told him the things from his early childhood may have contributed to it.  He really listened and told me he would read books with me. 

I know that most recommend not sharing suspicions of BPD with the pwBPD, but it seemed like it was time to get things out on the table.  I did it with love, not blame, and I am not trying to be his therapist.  He had already seen the books I have been reading.

He says he can see changes in me and my communication methods.  And I can see the changes in him.  We have been together for almost 2 years and just had our one year wedding anniversary.

He has not quit drinking and says he wants to cut back rather than quit, but hasn't defined what cutting back is.  He does not drink at my house or when we go out for dinner.  He drinks at his house and I do not drink with him, where I did some in the past.  I can tell he has cut back when I am at his house and when I talk with him on the phone in the evenings.  I am not sure what to think about cutting back, whether it is realistic, sustainable, etc., but I am willing to be patient and see what happens.

I don't know if this is just another recycle or if it is real change.  He says he finally knows what he wants and that he wants to share life with me.  Cautious optimism and radical acceptance. So I guess we will see.  I do love him and see his wonderful qualities, as well as his weaknesses.  If it weren't for the wonderful qualities, there would be no question.  And I guess I will stay on the Undecided board for the time being unless someone thinks I should change to Staying?

(No Longer in a) Daze

[tuum est61]

Hi Daze,

Your story is an impressive one - with lots if progress on your part and on the part of your H! I printed the High Conflict Couple, but myuBPDw refuses to read it.

Congratulations on your successes!

   


Your choice of where to post is not that critical, but it does appear you are still decidedly undecided - the main factor shedding doubt seems to be his drinking.  You are "trying to be patient" and "waiting to see."  Those words strike me as being as being hopeful and cautious - appropriately so - but still are not "staying" material.  You have established a very solid boundary around that, which you do need to maintain.

I guess where you post is not as important as what your next steps are as to where you go in your relationship from here.  Are you asking about posting on the staying board because you are considering living with your H again?  You've established some great boundaries - but they will be harder to maintain if you move back, in particular the not being around him when he drinks. How do you see maintaining that boundary from here forward?  Your earlier posts indicate that you believe your H is an alcoholic.    Until you resolve that question of his drinking, it seems you will remains undecided and won't be living with him.

I guess if I were to answer your question more directly, I'd say hang out here on undecided with the other members that still aren't sure that they can live/accept all that makes up their pwBPD - including the very difficult challenges associated with drinking.  

BTW, is he asking you to move back?  And sorry if I missed it but is he in therapy himself?

[daze]

Tuum,

I agree with you that I am Undecided.  It does help to have my words repeated back - validation.     So, thanks! 

It's too bad your wife won't read the book with you.  Maybe she will in the future.  It is possibly life changing - or at the least a step in the right direction.  I think my husband has found himself in enough apparently BPD-related situations/consequences that he is able to see the pattern - especially after reading the BPD questionnaire and articles.  The BPD questionnaire was rather thought-provoking about one's inner experience, not a pat summary of the DSM.  He did not get angry when he saw my other books or when I brought it up.

The drinking is the main issue.  My T said it could be alcoholism or it could be BPD or bipolar disorder based on what I've told T, but that there could be no diagnosis until he quits drinking for six months - that is if he seeks therapy.  I assume he is alcoholic because after we married he began drinking more frequently and in larger quantities - as in daily and starting in the mornings on weekends.  I have never seen anyone drink as much, even in the college/partying days.  It seems strange, on the other hand, that he is able to stop for a week or so at a time and also that he can stop after having a couple of drinks.

No, he is not in therapy.  He clearly sees that T has helped me.  And I have talked with him about aspects of my therapy - it's not all about him by any stretch.  So who knows about therapy for him in the future.

We have been talking about how we would like to share our lives fully / live together.  The drinking is the main obstacle.  Then we have housing issues - we'd need a bigger house in the town where I live (he lives 30 minutes away).  Neither of us is ready to take the step of selling our individual homes and buying one together at this point.

The drinking boundary is key.  I don't know if cutting back is a life-long solution.  I tend to think it's not but evidently some people do it. I wonder how many people are successful at cutting back vs. quitting.  Is it possible even?  He does drink around me when I am at his house but he is not getting drunk.  He does not drink at my house or when we go out for dinner and I do not drink with him at all.  I am fine with me not drinking for the rest of my life.

I imagine when my older son graduates and leaves for college and I am ready to sell my house (I've been wanting to move since before I met H), it will be closer to decision time.  That's basically within the next six months or so.

So, for the time being, we are seeing each other, sleeping over two to three nights per week, and talking daily.  My sons seem to be warming up to him again since he hasn't been drinking here - he is a nice guy, man's man, and a great cook.  It works for now.  Someone on the board pointed out to me earlier on that if she and her husband lived in separate houses she would probably be able to stay married indefinitely.  It has definitely prolonged the decision making in our situation.

Daze

[momtara]

I might have been the one who said I could stay with him if we lived in separated houses.  Not sure.  Anyway, I think your story is beautiful and I like the way he is committed to you.  I think it's fine to give it another shot.

The red flag is that he wants to 'cut down' on drinking without quitting.  He should come up with limits for himself and stick to them (three drinks a week? What?) but it seems like you guys are making progress.

You haven't moved back in together, so that's good.  Take it slow.  The fact that he's reading these books, talking honestly, etc., is a great sign.  Most people do not. 

Congrats for having the courage to be firm.  I think it sounds fine that you're giving this another shot, without giving up your individual residences just yet.  I think it'd be good for him to be seeing a T too.

I am separated from my husband and not sure if we should get back together.  I have young children, so the stakes are a lot higher and it's harder for me to take a chance and let him back in.  In your case, I think you are in a good place.

[tuum est61]

daze,

Your second post in this thread again demonstrates your maturity and progress on dealing with your H's BPD.  


I don't see your living arrangement as prolonging the situation - it has the characteristics of a Therapeutic Separation - even though your H hasnt got to therapy yet.  

For this to continue working and for you and your H keep making progress, keep your boundary around the drinking and keep up your approach of gentle persuasion - it really seems to be payimg off.  I guess I am expecting him to push back against you at times - if he isn't already - he will believe he's made "enough" progress - you will just have to validate his feelings around that - and keep your boundaries.

Your T probably has it right - he needs to abstain from the alcohol - and then look to therapy. Helping a loved one with BPD seek treatment is not easy - I think you should stick with gentle persuasion, and keep a key message in the article in mind - therapy is a goal, not a given. Keep remembering that your boundaries are not actions he takes, rather they are yours.  

I am thinking you will remain undecided for awhile - and that's not a bad thing - even though this wasn't part of the plan when you got married.  It certainly wasn't mine!  

[fakename]

Hi daze

Can you include a link to the questionnaire you had him take please?

[arabella]

Daze,

Thank you so much for this post - I'm hoping for healing as well and using 'tips' from members, such as yourself, who have had success with various resources is very helpful! I too would be grateful if you could point me in the direction of the questionnaire that you used!

[daze]

Hi all!

Sorry for the delay - got tied up in work with some disappointment thrown in - details below.  I appreciate all the encouragement from you guys and will help any way I can. Here is the link to the questionnaire at Tami Green's website ---

www.borderlinepersonalitysupport.com/borderline-personality-disorder.html

I took out the references to self-injury and suicide before sending it to him because it seemed too obvious.  He has, however, threatened suicide on at least three occasions that I know of.

Unfortunately, we are not a success story yet.  As Tuum guessed, the pushback has begun.  He went from idealization back to devaluation for some unknown reason.  Can't figure out what the trigger was. 

Anyway, yesterday he yelled and swore at me on the phone, then called back to check on me, then blew me off when he left work, ignored my call and text, and later called to say he wasn't going to spend the last night per our Sunday plans.  Later he texted me that he threw his wedding ring out the window on the interstate. 

Then today he texted a picture of his left hand with the ring still on and told me I deserve better and to move on.  That one is not hard to validate! 

So, a two steps forward and at least one step back.  Guess we'll see.  It was really good while it lasted. If he follows his typical pattern, he will give me the silent treatment for a few days and then send me a text that he loves me and misses me and the cycle begins again.

I just wish it didn't hurt so much when it goes south.  It's hard to control my own emotions.

If you use the questionnaire, please let us know how it goes!

Daze

[daze]

Momtara -

Yes, it would be hard with young kids in common.  I can imagine the pull of wanting to give you and your kids a healthy life and the desire to have an intact family for them. I faced something similar with my first husband, who is the father of my sons.

So, yes, I have a pattern.    Didn't know I had a pattern but after marrying my uBPDh it's pretty obvious I do. The therapy is helping with family of origin issues.  But that's another story.

Thanks for your encouragement.  I am not feeling so hopeful right now since he started the devaluation stage again.  Bleh!

Daze

[fakename]

daze,

thanks so much for the questionnaire.

i'm sorry for the pain you're going through.

i broke up with my exgf with BPD on feb 4th when i caught her lying to me. (she still denied it even though i had proof, and even the next morning sent me an email blaming it on me and saying i'll never trust her cause of her past... .  she'll take her lies to her grave i've learned unless i reveal my proof)

i've been NC with her since. and since she has gone on dates and i'm sure slept with someone.  i'm not planning to take her back and visiting this message board helps. but if i'm weak, i'll give her the questionnaire and let you know how it goes... .  

[arabella]

Thank you for the link! Very interesting. Unfortunately dBPDh isn't in a good place right now to look at it. Although, sometimes I do wonder if he would feel soothed by knowing that it isn't 'just him' but actually symptoms of the illness. Still, now is not the time, hopefully he'll start to level out a little soon (for both our sakes!)

Daze, you may not have an overall "success story", but you HAVE had successes! Don't forget to give yourself credit for the things you've done and all you've learned!

[daze]

Fakename,

The lies are so hard to deal with, especially when you have proof.  Did you show xgf the proof or tell her about the proof?  My husband hasn't cheated on me that I know of but he has contacted women on FB and he was making after hours phone calls to a woman who works for his company in another city.  I called him on it each time I found out about it. Therapist warned me the behavior would probably continue.

Yes, let me know if you give her the questionnaire.

Daze

[daze]

Arabella,

Thanks, I appreciate the encouragement. Yes, we have had some successes. The best thing out of the whole relationship has been learning about myself and what I need to be healthy.  And if that's what it is, I will take it.

I agree with you that the person has to be in a good place.  My H was moving toward a good place when I sent him the questionnaire and articles and we were at a very good place when I brought it up. He didn't respond except to say that he would read with me. I almost wonder if BPD hasn't come up with him in the past because he was not surprised when I said it.  If someone close told me they thought I had pd traits, I would want to talk about it.

Before my H's behavior kicked in, I had very little idea about PDs. It's a whole other world now that I know about them.

I am really curious to know how it goes if you use it. So please let me know.  I need to read more intro posts, including yours.  Take care --

Daze

[almost789]

Wow Daze I just read your story. Thats exciting and at the same time disappointing that hes now seems dysregulated. I had a similar situation with mine. He accepted thr information about BPD in a fairly positve way initially. Then later switched. Im sorry for the difficulties your having now, but you know with BPD its always up and down. Just because hes gone down for the time being doesnt mean hell stay down forever, he will come back up. I also suspect mine already knew his diagnosis as he didnt seem paricularly alarmed when I brought it to his attention. So, you know how they switch in and out of these schema modes, I assume he' switch back soonernor later and its very positive he is accepting. It shows that not all respond negatively. I certainly have read stories of BPDs who were relieved to know and to have a direction and who even got into DBT therapy due to this knowledge. I dont have any regrets for giving mine this information. I wish you and him the bestof Luck!

[daze]

LifeGoesOn,

Thanks for the kind words.  The dysregulation and devaluation will probably change back, but maybe not.  Probably better not to count on anything. 

You know, it has happened so many times now - you'd think I'd be used to it.  When he first started the cycles shortly after we married, I didn't understand it at all.  The feelings and behavior it aroused in me are what led me to research the "symptoms" of our relationship and therapy, probably like most people on this site.  Confusion, frustration, anger which was really fear and sadness.

You'd think after so many recycles that it wouldn't bother me as much, but it still affects me even though not as strongly as it did initially.  Guess you'd have to be a robot to have no feelings about it.

Daze

[fakename]

well daze, i guess we'll find out if i give the questionnaire sooner than later

so NC since feb 4th and she emails me today... .  

nothing but "chantix.com will help you quit smoking"


what the hell do i do?

i have been telling myself i wouldn't reply when she tried contacting me... .  to get away and stay away... .  but have been secretly hoping she would email me... .  last night and this morning i was thinking that i would want to keep a relationship alive just for the sex, but i dont know if that's just my addiction to her talking


i dont know if i should reply with something short like, "please delete my contact information, thank you"

or send this BPD questionnaire daze gave us... .  


any guidance would be great

[almost789]

I know Daze, it's so frustrating. The ups and downs. Hoping and waiting for that come back, getting it, only be let down again and again. It's impossible not to be dissapointed and feel sad. At least it is for me. I was so torn, though I wanted to stay so bad. My deal breaker was denial and therapy. And I guess in a way his denial works to my benefit because I am better off without the emotional highs and lows this brings.

[arabella]

Daze, likely the reason you'd want to know if someone thought you had PD traits because you don't have a PD! Such a catch-22.

I also know that feeling of being lied to over and over again. I know it's coming, I know it never really stops, but it still hurts every time. And every shift in mood, every horrible cycle, I fall apart all over again. He and I both know he has BPD but he hasn't really internalized that idea and hasn't done any research or anything. I try to feed him bits of info, but it's touchy.

Fakename - from what you've said, perhaps maintaining the NC would be the best thing. You speak of your girl as an 'addiction' and someone you could keep 'just for the sex' - those things aren't healthy for either of you. Her email was bait, to see if you'd respond. Decide what you want before you decide what to do! If the relationship is over then don't respond at all. If you want to try again for a real relationship then you need a better response than "don't contact me" (which is just baiting her back) or sending out a potentially damaging questionnaire. That's just my .02 though.

[daze]

Fakename -

I don't know what you should do.  I certainly understand the temptation to keep the r/s going for sex.  For me, it's hard to separate sex from love and I definitely love my h. Might be a woman thing.

When I sent it to h, I didn't preface it with anything other than this is an interesting questionnaire.  No mention of BPD, didn't aim it specifically at him, or anything like that.  But by that point I had started naming his behaviors - black and white thinking, push/pull, silent treatment, etc. - in a fairly low key way.  I feel like ... .  when you do ... .    I also had explained to him that when I expressed anger in the past that it was really about confusion, frustration, sadness, and fear.  And that I was working to express my real emotions rather than the mask them with anger.

Don't know what else to say, other than consider whether you really want to stay in the r/s.  Good luck and let us know what you decide to do / what happens.

Daze

[daze]

LifeGoesOn -

You are better off without the ups and downs!  We probably all would be. Denial and refusing therapy are definitely dealbreakers.  For me, the drinking is too.  When it's over, it will be over but I'm trying to patiently wait and see where we end up.  I'm giving it through the coming year - unless something major happens that requires ending it.

Arabella -

Hopefully the knowledge will help him. 

I think your advice to Fakename is good.  The sex aspect is a tough one - seems like a lot of us have been blown away by the sexual experience with our pwBPD.  Maintaining a bad relationship with a sick person for sex alone is not healthy for either person.  That said, I understand the temptation.

Daze

[fakename]

arabella and daze,

thanks for writing.

i havent responded yet. mainly because i came to these boards and would just read stuff and that helped.

i dont know what to do yet.  i am thinking about why i want the sex. obviously cause i'm a horny guy and she was beautiful.  also i loved that girl. and also maybe i want to hurt her? maybe anger sex? i feel like i am disguising my desire to be with her and hope for things to work out with other thoughts or excuses.  i'm also wondering do i have the capacity to keep it just physical?

im not gonna reply any time soon... i hope... .  its been 16 days since i broke up with her cause i caught her lying, and she never admitted to lying and going on a date, and all she has to say to me is chantix will help you quit smoking?

it feels to heavily of, i'm not getting the attention you gave me elsewhere, and i need to use you for my own selfish reasons again.

daze, i like how you introduced the questionnaire to him. i plan to use the same method if i ever do give her the questionnaire.

i mean, i really loved that girl. and over the past 3 years i gave her 100 chances and gave her all the best from me.

but since coming to these message boards, i am thinking, i am 30, she's about to be 35 in june... .  do i really want to spend the rest of my life with someone who has BPD, fibromyalgia, and put in all the work i do to love her and treat her well, know that i wouldnt want to have kids with her because of her health and make all the other sacrifices involved, knowing that at any moment she could lie to me or go sleep with someone else?  those 2 things are what i always considered so important in a relationship, and i've already overlooked those values being abused so many times... .  

[daze]

Fakename,

You wrote ---

"i am 30, she's about to be 35 in june... .  do i really want to spend the rest of my life with someone who has BPD, fibromyalgia, and put in all the work i do to love her and treat her well, know that i wouldnt want to have kids with her because of her health and make all the other sacrifices involved, knowing that at any moment she could lie to me or go sleep with someone else?"

That's a lot to think about.  Most of us would probably agree that's a lot to give up for a woman who could lie at any point and sleep with someone else.  Even if you love her.  On the other hand you're still young and don't have to worry about the biological clock as much.  However, as we get older it gets hard to find someone without children to marry unless there's a pretty significant age difference.  Not to be a doom and gloomer because there are exceptions to everything, but those are things to consider.  Do you want to have your own child or children?  Would you want to marry a person who has a child or children from a previous relationship?

You are fortunate to know about per BPD or BPD traits before marrying her.  Three years is a long time to invest in a relationship and to love a person, but you have another 50 years left on this planet.

Take care.  Make a written list of pros and cons. 

Daze

[fakename]

hey daze,

thanks for writing.

i always wanted to have like 2-3 kids. but when with her, i knew she could only have one really and i was ok with that, (even though she also carries fragile x syndrome, meaning his kid could be mentally challenged)... .  

for me, i found happiness in tending to her and making sure she was happy. i'm a very simple man. i learned how to be content from my parents, not being materialistic or needing extravagant things or anything like that, (even though i do like some nice things, i do not need them to be happy), i, through my mom's devotion to it, found happiness through getting in touch with my soul and trying to just be good and do good. 

for me, i dont need much in a relationship either, just honesty and fidelity and sex and a pretty and ambitious goal that works to improve herself and i just want to try to make that girl feel loved and appreciated. thats how i saw a relationship. so sacrificing things like whether or not i have kids isn't too important to me.   

i can't say that my ex doesnt try to improve herself, i feel like she just doesnt know what is wrong with her. she exercises, meditates, and is very unselfish to others (not unselfish with me in the important regards)

all this makes things difficult. if i feel like there is hope that she can get better, i feel like i can sacrifice things for myself, in order for her to get better and treat me the way i want. to have my love be appreciated and for the love to grow and evolve, rather than things just being motions of manipulation... .  

i've made a few pro and con lists. and the cons outweight the few pros ten-fold... .  

but why do i still entertain the idea of trying?

maybe cause i dont like to quit. i always told myself i would only get into one relationship (figured the point of being in a relationship was to make it work, otherwise why not just casually date)... .  and maybe cause i feel like i can shed light on her condition so she can improve and try to reduce suffering... .  but at the same time, if i reveal her condition to her, then i'm gonna get stuck through her playing the victim to help her through it... .  

whats funny is that the relationshp wasnt 'actually' 3 years... .  thats how long we've known each other... .  for like 13 of those months, she was in a relationship with someone else, and the remainder time was spent breaking up every week or 2... .  

hahaha, there is definitely something wrong with me to still even consider being with her. 

[arabella]

fakename, I liked your response - I think I have a better picture of your dilema now. When you look at your pros/cons list, are all the items equally weighted? Maybe trying ranking each item on a 1-10 scale because the number of entries on each side doesn't necessarily tell the whole story.

I know that it's possible for pwBPD to get better but I also am trying to accept/admit that my particular pwBPD might not. Can you handle it if she can't overcome the BPD? If lying and infidelity are deal breakers for you, and that's where she's at, then can you honestly say that you'll be able to get past that when it happens again? She isn't in treatment so I would be concerned that those things are inevitable as part of her version of BPD. I can tell you that I once thought my pwBPD would improve or stop with the lying/cheating once he got caught, regretted it, etc... .  but no. It continues. It bothers me, yes, but I can deal with it because those things aren't deal-breakers for me.

What's 'wrong' is that you're a loving person who committed yourself to a relationship and you have integrity and are loyal. Those are all GOOD things. It isn't you. Now, can you radically accept both the way you are and the way she is? I'm struggling myself... .  

[hithere]

I can tell you that I once thought my pwBPD would improve or stop with the lying/cheating once he got caught, regretted it, etc... .  but no. It continues. It bothers me, yes, but I can deal with it because those things aren't deal-breakers for me.

I mean this in as nice a way as possible Arabella, what do you get out of this relationship if those things are not deal-breakers?  And is it that you don't think you deserve better?

[fakename]

arabella, thanks for writing... .  

i dont know if i can rank them on a 1-10 scale... .  i feel like i would just overlook any of that any way.

i feel like there is something deeper just drawing me to her. obviously there must be considering i threw away all my values and overlooked all the abuse.  i think there is something inside me i need to figure out. i know i deserve better, so why am i still committed to her?

i cant stand that she doesnt have any remorse after she lies or cheats on me. i cant stand that. how do you treat someone else like that? especially when she's the one that kept begging for me to come back. she should just stay away if thats how shes going to treat me.

i think i can accept the way i am with her (even though i know i can develop myself into something more without her), but i can't accept her the way she is... .  but i accept the hope and the possibility or completion maybe? maybe its just my ego, or that i like to build things or fixing what is broken, or its a control issue. or maybe my own insecurity in that her fake love is good enough because i probably cant get that elsewhere?

i always used to think to myself, that when its bad, its bad, but when it's good it's soo good.  but i know i can get that elsewhere in time... .  so why am i going back? do i like the pain or depression as an excuse for me to be lazy and not develop myself?

[daze]

Fakename,

You wrote ---

"so why am i going back? do i like the pain or depression as an excuse for me to be lazy and not develop myself?"

That's the big question for most of us here. The best thing I can think of that comes from a r/s with a pwBPD is the opportunity to learn about oneself.  I've learned that I'm broken in some significant ways - family of origin pd issues, codependence, etc.

You said you can accept what you would have to give up for her, but that you can't accept her behavior - the lying and cheating.  If you can't have radical acceptance to her as she is, then you will have to let her go at some point.  You know what you can live with.  Lying and cheating goes against your values and you will not be happy with a person who lies and cheats. 

I have not given up on my h because he seems to have flickers of awareness, he has wonderful qualities, and I've already had my children - there is no time crunch.  That said, knowing what I know now, I would not marry him again. The main challenge for me (once I figured out what was going on) has been detachment so that the swings between idealization and devaluation don't bother me as much. My detachment seems to be improving, but as you can see on this thread the swings still hurt but it doesn't consume me.

If you haven't tried therapy, I wholeheartedly recommend it. I also encourage you to read the lessons and workshops on this site if you haven't already.  They really help!

Daze

[arabella]

Fakename, I'm with Daze on this - if you can't accept her ways, and she isn't doing some intensive therapy, then you are ultimately going to have to let her go in order to be happy in the long-term. The suggestion to maybe look into counselling for yourself is a good one. It's always good to have some professional support as you explore some of these issues. Plus, a therapist might be able to help you sort out some of the confusion you have about your own motivations.

Hithere - haha - no worries, I understand where you're coming from with your question! I'm not a monogamist by nature and we have an 'open' sort of r/s so the 'affairs' aren't problematic in the same way they might otherwise be. When I say he 'cheats' I mean he cheats on the rules and boundaries we mutually set regarding our other romantic relations. I admit that I unwittingly enabled him by not properly enforcing my boundaries, it's something I'm acutely aware of now and I'm trying to make a plan going forward. The lying is also definitely a problem and, of course, it overlaps with the cheating - he lies about his girlfriends, even when there's no reason to. If he lied all the time I suppose it could become a deal-breaker... .  (This is an interesting idea re limits, I will need to think on it more - thank you!) Generally though, he is quite honest about things. So the lying is the exception to the rule. Those things aside then, I have a husband who is kind, intelligent, aligned with me in politics, religion, and general ethics, patient, motivated, shares social/life interests, tries his best to take care of me, and shares my sense of humour. Umm, except for right now as he's going through a BPD episode and all of that has gone out the window - which is why I lucked out in finding this forum!

[daze]

Arabella,

Your description made me smile ---

"Those things aside then, I have a husband who is kind, intelligent, aligned with me in politics, religion, and general ethics, patient, motivated, shares social/life interests, tries his best to take care of me, and shares my sense of humour."

My husband is to me a lot like yours is to you.

Daze

[arabella]

Daze,

I'm so glad! Sometimes it's hard to remember all the good things, and sometimes it's really hard to smile, so every little thing helps!

I think about the way my husband is now vs how he usually is and it's like they are two entirely different people... .