Worst episode of our 20 years together

[Depression = 72% of members]

I've posted a few times earlier about our latest ongoing fight, where by BPDh went through a month of having to deal with a stressful situation (of which I had nothing to do with) and has been taking it out on me ever since.  He spent a week of basically not speaking to me, angrily leaving the room when I came in and refusing to tell me why.  This is one of his typical ways of trying to hurt me.  First he rages, he's never been physical but he screams at me saying the most horrible things that rip my heart out, then to show he's still mad at whatever imaginary thing I did he won't talk to me or answer my phone calls or texts, etc.  When I question him later about why he won't answer my calls he says "I'm really not in the mood to talk to you and don't know when I will be". Sometimes I have to tell him before either of us leaves the house that I promise not to call unless it's an emergency so if I do call it will be an emergency so please answer.  So after the week of no communication he announced he wants a divorce.  But a couple of days later he decided no divorce yet, but is willing to go to marriage counseling and wants to try to work things out.  Then he started the excessive drinking, pot smoking and gambling, so I left for a few days to get away.  So I'm now back home and it's been over 2 weeks since all this started.  When I got back home he was feally nice to me, bought me a valentines present and pretty much catered to me all day.  Told me he loved me and wants to work things out, that he wanted the day to be a special day where we would just decide to not discuss any issues and spend the day enjoying each other's company, which we did.  But the next day it was kind of back to the usual, only he's really quiet and doesn't want to talk at all (not at all like him to do this), that is until he's had a few beers and smoked a couple of bowls then he's chatty & wants to play, goof around, etc.

Because I have a really hard time being around him when he's drinking & smoking pot (which I've told him many times and is our biggest issue right now), I decided one of my boundaries was going to be that I wouldn't be around him when he's doing this.  I told him to please let me know when he was going to start drinking or smoking pot so I could go upstairs and hang out up there as I didn't want to be around him when he's drunk or stoned.  He agreed without arguing but then took his bedding & moved it into the spare room, and today he announced that he was only going to converse cordially with me from now on, no intimacy what so ever because it was too difficult for him since he didn't think he still loved me anymore.  He said he was still willing to go to counseling but at this point in time he thought it was still going to end in divorce because he can't put up with me telling him how much he's allowed to drink & smoke, so we would have to just stay out of each other's way until the counseling starts.

It's been almost 4 weeks that this has been going on every day, which is the longest these episodes have ever lasted with him.  Does anyone know how long these BPD episodes can last? I'm trying to hang on until our counceling sessions start but I don't know how much longer I can take it.

[skwyz1]

I've posted a few times earlier about our latest ongoing fight, where by BPDh went through a month of having to deal with a stressful situation (of which I had nothing to do with) and has been taking it out on me ever since.  He spent a week of basically not speaking to me, angrily leaving the room when I came in and refusing to tell me why.  This is one of his typical ways of trying to hurt me.  First he rages, he's never been physical but he screams at me saying the most horrible things that rip my heart out, then to show he's still mad at whatever imaginary thing I did he won't talk to me or answer my phone calls or texts, etc.  When I question him later about why he won't answer my calls he says "I'm really not in the mood to talk to you and don't know when I will be". Sometimes I have to tell him before either of us leaves the house that I promise not to call unless it's an emergency so if I do call it will be an emergency so please answer.  So after the week of no communication he announced he wants a divorce.  But a couple of days later he decided no divorce yet, but is willing to go to marriage counseling and wants to try to work things out.  Then he started the excessive drinking, pot smoking and gambling, so I left for a few days to get away.  So I'm now back home and it's been over 2 weeks since all this started.  When I got back home he was feally nice to me, bought me a valentines present and pretty much catered to me all day.  Told me he loved me and wants to work things out, that he wanted the day to be a special day where we would just decide to not discuss any issues and spend the day enjoying each other's company, which we did.  But the next day it was kind of back to the usual, only he's really quiet and doesn't want to talk at all (not at all like him to do this), that is until he's had a few beers and smoked a couple of bowls then he's chatty & wants to play, goof around, etc.

Because I have a really hard time being around him when he's drinking & smoking pot (which I've told him many times and is our biggest issue right now), I decided one of my boundaries was going to be that I wouldn't be around him when he's doing this.  I told him to please let me know when he was going to start drinking or smoking pot so I could go upstairs and hang out up there as I didn't want to be around him when he's drunk or stoned.  He agreed without arguing but then took his bedding & moved it into the spare room, and today he announced that he was only going to converse cordially with me from now on, no intimacy what so ever because it was too difficult for him since he didn't think he still loved me anymore.  He said he was still willing to go to counseling but at this point in time he thought it was still going to end in divorce because he can't put up with me telling him how much he's allowed to drink & smoke, so we would have to just stay out of each other's way until the counseling starts.

It's been almost 4 weeks that this has been going on every day, which is the longest these episodes have ever lasted with him.  Does anyone know how long these BPD episodes can last? I'm trying to hang on until our counceling sessions start but I don't know how much longer I can take it.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Chattgirl]

My bps episodes always last a couple months. Usually about the time I don't care and I start to get past him he suddenly gets all better. Better with a bang. He suddenly offers to buy me things, obsesses over me , gets my name tattooed on his arm, painted my name and I love you on a guard rail and then the same episode a couple months later. Then back to talking to other women, blocking my number, ignoring me , and spending crazy amounts of money. It has the potential to last a long time but I have learned that if you act like you don't even notice the change in their behavior it seems like they come around quicker.

[Foreverhopefull]

The episodes can last a long time.

I remember one episode of his being that he "moved" to the basement, asked for a divorce (asked me for it but never looked into filing it), would be a "roommate" that was just living in the same house as me. This lasted for a few months.

I turned it around by respecting his choice, I wouldn't talk to him more than "this bill needs to be paid, you owe me XXX$", I would do the groceries and make sure I didn't have anything he liked, never took care of anything I usually do for him (like calls from his family or those pesky marketing calls). I showed him what was life without me. He turned around quickly after that.

A few years after that he did it again, this time he was shocked at my reaction. I started by asking him to move everything he had in the bedroom or anywhere else in the house to his man cave, then I said " You need to move out by XXX date, I'll buy you out of the house, I'll have the divorce papers prepared and ready for your signature. Should you change your mind about this, like last time, make sure it's the choice you want for life. Should you choose me, you must agree to start, participate and stay in therapy. I will stop the process when I have enough proof of your participation and desire to stay in therapy. If I notice any desire to stop treatment, I will sign the papers myself with or without your signature."

It's been 6 years since. I think that once you show them that you are not hurting (even if every ounce of your body and soul is dying), the fear of abandonment kicks in and they notice that we are not slaves to their emotions, they bounce back.

It's hard to show them that you are not hurt by them (personally I find it harder than trying not to "fix" him), but we have to do it to show them that we are not pawns in their game of life.

[skwyz1]

Good advice Foreverhopeful, thanks for sharing.  I too find it very difficult to not show how much he's hurting me.  It's going to take me a while to get to the point where I can tell him I'm perfectly fine being by myself as I have no means of support other than his disability $$.  We moved from TX to MI last year to basically move into our 'retirement' home on some acreage, which is what he's wanted to do since I've known him.  I had to quit my job in order to do this and we're now in a rural area where there are no jobs what so ever.  I love this area and really do not want to have to leave.  He knows how dependent I am on him now and even said to me the other day "I know the only reason you're staying with me is you have no where else to go".

[arabella]

Thank you for sharing this! I read this thread and felt a huge sense of relief - I hadn't realized that these behaviours were common and thought it was just me! Not that any of it is good but it's better than being specific to my relationship.

Foreverhopefull - how did you decide what strategy to employ?

Skywyz1 - I'm on my second major 'episode' with my dBPDh. Last time: he left, we saw each other regularly (only in public spaces), he had an 'epiphany' approximately 5 months later. He said, and still maintains to this day, that it was like he "woke up one morning and someone had flipped a switch" and he felt totally different about everything. He was undiagnosed at the time. Before he left we struggled, as you describe, for about 6 weeks. Then he sprung the break-up on me. He wouldn't even talk to me for about 2 weeks after he left. Then we resumed contact but he didn't start coming around for another 2 months or so. Then another 3 months before the complete change of heart. So... .  to answer your question, it can last quite awhile. But, looking back, the more detached and independent I became, the less angry and hurtful he became.

Now I need a strategy for this episode. He's depressed, stressed, self-injuring, possibly suicidal, and insisting that divorce is the only solution because we're totally incompatible (been together 12 years). Oh, and his most recent girlfriend (LD no less) is pulling away so he is panicking about that too, but doesn't realize it. I don't think I can just leave him in this state but I also don't want it to drag on.

So, skwyz1, how can we pull back/away without leaving when leaving isn't really an option? Maybe others have some suggestions? I liked Foreverhopefull's roommate idea... .  but I don't think I have enough space in my little apartment to get full separation... .  

[Somewhere]

mini background.  Together 12 years, 3 kids.

"We" have the episodes about every 6 months or so.

The more I play into them, the more deeper "We" have them.

Have gotten some REALLY GOOD help from Alanon.

They call the concept Detachment with Love.  Their examples are more Alcohol focused -- classic example -- partner passed out drunk on the floor -- do not fret, try to drag them to bed, or anything else. 

Just detach, and let them sleep on the floor.  Detachment.

If it is cold, you can throw a blanket over them.  That is the With Love part.

While that is metaphor for BPD-Land episodes, I am finally starting to get it.

Tends to make things so that "She" has the episode, and the kids and I do not so much.

[Somewhere]

I don't think I can just leave him in this state but I also don't want it to drag on.

mmmmm . . . .  how to put this? 

If you are just lacking permission . . .

Yes, you can. 

You really, really can.

Did not Cause It, Cannot Control It, and certainly Cannot Cure It.

The prior Crap + This Crap, just = More Crap.

Why do you want/need Crap?  Let alone More Crap?

[arabella]

Tends to make things so that "She" has the episode, and the kids and I do not so much.

I like this A LOT. I do need to step back and let him sift through on his own.

I really can't just leave. Or hmm, perhaps I phrase that incorrectly? I CAN, but it wouldn't be very kind and it certainly wouldn't be in keeping with the "with love" spirit. This is his first bout with suicidal ideation (so far as I know) and his psychiatrist is worried that he may actually carry through. I can't cure it but it is generally not advisable to leave someone going through a major depressive episode alone. Bearing in mind too he has no other support network. I don't think that the depression is simply "more crap" - at least not in the usual sense. So I'm left balancing between detaching, monitoring, and acting with tough love (but love nonetheless). Does that make more sense? It's also possible I'm just going in circles. 

[Somewhere]

Tends to make things so that "She" has the episode, and the kids and I do not so much.

I like this A LOT. I do need to step back and let him sift through on his own.

I really can't just leave. Or hmm, perhaps I phrase that incorrectly? I CAN, but it wouldn't be very kind and it certainly wouldn't be in keeping with the "with love" spirit. This is his first bout with suicidal ideation (so far as I know) and his psychiatrist is worried that he may actually carry through. I can't cure it but it is generally not advisable to leave someone going through a major depressive episode alone. Bearing in mind too he has no other support network. I don't think that the depression is simply "more crap" - at least not in the usual sense. So I'm left balancing between detaching, monitoring, and acting with tough love (but love nonetheless). Does that make more sense? It's also possible I'm just going in circles. 

Maybe I missed something in the lingo?

Was/am I confused on the "d" part meaning Divorced?

Do I have that right?  I know some folks do not honor their marriage commitments, but it sounds like maybe you are not honoring your Divorce [non] Commitments?

[arabella]

ooh, now I don't know about the acronym! I thought the divorced peeps were using the 'ex' modifier? I'm new and I thought the 'd' stood for 'diagnosed'! 

So, no, we aren't divorced. We're married and living together. Have never been separated or anything like that (aside from the last major 'episode' 10 years ago, but we weren't married at the time).

Good point re marriage commitments too. I do feel like part of my marriage commitment was to stick with him even when he's ill. I think that plays into my decision-making and confusion here as well. Thank you for that insight!

[GreenMango]

Skywyz

Have you considered going that your husband has both and addiction and emotional issue?  This is a difficult situation to be in... .  the chicken or the egg.  Some therapists want the person to attend to sobriety first then tackle the underlying issues driving the addiction.  Maybe consider going to alanon, if you haven't already.  Addicts arent known for their logic and can be pretty self centered when it comes to satisfying the addiction need looking for enablers.  Boundaries tend to spark extinction bursts.

Have you checked out the thread on extinction bursts?

[Somewhere]

ooh, now I don't know about the acronym! I thought the divorced peeps were using the 'ex' modifier? I'm new and I thought the 'd' stood for 'diagnosed'! 

So, no, we aren't divorced. We're married and living together. Have never been separated or anything like that (aside from the last major 'episode' 10 years ago, but we weren't married at the time).

Good point re marriage commitments too. I do feel like part of my marriage commitment was to stick with him even when he's ill. I think that plays into my decision-making and confusion here as well. Thank you for that insight!

You are probably right -- about D = Diagnosed.   

And C stands for Cookie.   

Ok, then what about the girlfriend part . . .  am I following THAT part correctly?  If so, why would you tolerate that?

[arabella]

cookie, cookie, cookie starts with 'C'! (I watched a lot of Sesame Street as a child!)  

I probably should have explained the girlfriend a little more here too. It's a little complicated, and this current situation is a little more so than usual, but suffice it to say, he has always had girlfriends off/on throughout our relationship. And I have occasionally had boyfriends, although typically not, simply because I can't be bothered. We have an open relationship anyway so this isn't a problem in and of itself. I completely understand that this is confusing for others, it isn't typical and it certainly isn't everyone's cup of tea! But, for example, our wedding vows purposely did not contain any reference to monogamy. On the other hand, he's treating this one differently and it's gotten really unhealthy.

skwyz1 - Sorry, I feel like I've unintentionally hijacked your thread here! Also, I agree with GreenMango, it seems like there may be an addiction issue that needs to be addressed at some point and that you're getting push-back on that issue on TOP of the BPD episode. That makes things even harder for you - perhaps, as GM suggested, Alanon might be able to offer some support or additional insights?

[arabella]

Found the site abbreviations key! w00t!

Just in case anyone's interested: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=26601.0

[Somewhere]

I probably should have explained the girlfriend a little more here too. It's a little complicated, and this current situation is a little more so than usual, but suffice it to say, he has always had girlfriends off/on throughout our relationship. And I have occasionally had boyfriends, although typically not, simply because I can't be bothered. We have an open relationship anyway so this isn't a problem in and of itself. I completely understand that this is confusing for others, it isn't typical and it certainly isn't everyone's cup of tea! But, for example, our wedding vows purposely did not contain any reference to monogamy. On the other hand, he's treating this one differently and it's gotten really unhealthy.

ahhh.  ok.  

No idea, but if it is all good with you, no problem from me.

But is it all good with you?

Just asking, because something does not sound like it.

You mentioning Alanon, got me to thinking about some of that.  Had been in a funk lately after a discussion about "What Did/Do You Want?"  Pondering it through made me think about Happy Wife, Happy Life, White Picket Fence, etc.  

After chatting it down with the Alanon folks I am down to maybe "To Love and To Be Loved."  :)unno if that is possible in realm.  :)o you get that?  To Love and Be Loved, I mean.

Crazy does not sober up.  Some are more some days are less, but per Step 2 -- How can He restore us to a sanity that does not exist?

[GreenMango]

Somewhere just wondering out loud here... .  maybe that #2 is saying that you can restore your own sanity but not someone else's sanity.

[arabella]

It would be all good with me, and usually is, except that the current situation has gone off the rails. He's triangulating with his current gf and has been lying to me about what's going on for a few months now. I just found out. So therein lies the problem. This feels more like a real 'affair' rather than just the usual, mutually agreed upon arrangement. It's added new dimensions to everything - the secrecy of it has elevated the secondary relationship in dBPDh's mind and he's lost perspective (I say this objectively, not just as an injured 3rd party even though I am that too). I'm not really sure how to handle it. It's not the other woman so much as it's the deceit, and now the triangulation issue too (no one wants to hear how much better the other woman is).

I'm not very familiar with the specifics of the Alanon or Alcoholic Anonymous programs, so I think I've missed a lot of the meaning in your post. Sorry! What do you mean re the "To Love and To Be Loved"? Do you have a link to the steps so I could read up?

I was thinking that the sobriety issues and the BPD issues were separate things (with obvious overlap, coping issues, etc.) and that they would each require attention. As for 'crazy' not sobering up... .  well, mine at least isn't usually crazy! A little odd perhaps. And, with work, there are good outcomes for people suffering from BPD - if they can admit there's a problem AND stick to the intensive therapy required. Although, a therapist recently pointed out that when the therapy starts to work, pwBPD get scared and quite often relapse and then refuse further treatment. It's so frustrating!

[Somewhere]

It would be all good with me, and usually is, except that the current situation has gone off the rails. He's triangulating with his current gf and has been lying to me about what's going on for a few months now. I just found out. So therein lies the problem. This feels more like a real 'affair' rather than just the usual, mutually agreed upon arrangement. It's added new dimensions to everything - the secrecy of it has elevated the secondary relationship in dBPDh's mind and he's lost perspective (I say this objectively, not just as an injured 3rd party even though I am that too). I'm not really sure how to handle it. It's not the other woman so much as it's the deceit, and now the triangulation issue too (no one wants to hear how much better the other woman is).

Yeahhhh.  You follow all that is WAAYYY outside where I would want to find myself.  No judgment on you all in that regard.  But from what I am hearing, I would flush the toilet and not look back.  jmho.

I'm not very familiar with the specifics of the Alanon or Alcoholic Anonymous programs, so I think I've missed a lot of the meaning in your post. Sorry! What do you mean re the "To Love and To Be Loved"? Do you have a link to the steps so I could read up?

I need to be careful on the links I put on here.  Had been sloppy and got a warning.  But I think this should be all okay, for a starter >>

www.al-anon.org/

The "To Love and Be Loved" was just part of what a group discussion led to.  Hard part in this domain, and one of the key features of Mental Illness and Personality Disorders is that they tend to damage the capacity to actually love.  BPD in particular IS an Emotional Dysregulation problem after all. 

I was thinking that the sobriety issues and the BPD issues were separate things (with obvious overlap, coping issues, etc.) and that they would each require attention. As for 'crazy' not sobering up... .  well, mine at least isn't usually crazy! A little odd perhaps. And, with work, there are good outcomes for people suffering from BPD - if they can admit there's a problem AND stick to the intensive therapy required. Although, a therapist recently pointed out that when the therapy starts to work, pwBPD get scared and quite often relapse and then refuse further treatment. It's so frustrating!

When you start into the Hard Research, typical numbers of Alkies in Rehab have BP or BP Traits are over half.

Truth is we "Nons" usually have no idea of what level crazy is lurking below the surface.  Sort of like an Iceberg -- Mostlly below the water.

[Somewhere]

Somewhere just wondering out loud here... .  maybe that #2 is saying that you can restore your own sanity but not someone else's sanity.

I think you are quite correct.

Must be crazy to be in this situation, anyway, huh?

[arabella]

Ah, okay, I see where you were going with the previous post. Thank you for the clarification. I do indeed get the "to love and be loved". As for treating the addiction and the BPD, obviously it's more complicated than if it were just one or the other, but that doesn't mean that each type of therapy isn't crucial to the ultimate success, right? One step at a time... .  

As I said earlier, I appreciate that my r/s priorities and values aren't shared by all, I was simply trying to explain why the dynamic is a little different for me personally. Where monogamy isn't a deal breaker it shifts the gravity of the offense. It's always so hard to say what we would/could do in any given situation until we're actually there, you know? I agree, it isn't where I WANT to find myself but, nonetheless, here I am and I have to deal with it.

[arabella]

skwyz1 - how are things going for you? Any relief yet? When do your counselling session start?

[Grey Kitty]

Good advice Foreverhopeful, thanks for sharing.  I too find it very difficult to not show how much he's hurting me.  It's going to take me a while to get to the point where I can tell him I'm perfectly fine being by myself as I have no means of support other than his disability $$.  We moved from TX to MI last year to basically move into our 'retirement' home on some acreage, which is what he's wanted to do since I've known him.  I had to quit my job in order to do this and we're now in a rural area where there are no jobs what so ever.  I love this area and really do not want to have to leave.  He knows how dependent I am on him now and even said to me the other day "I know the only reason you're staying with me is you have no where else to go".

Well... .  it sounds like you really are dependent on him, and that is tough.  Here are a couple questions:

Do you want to stay where you are badly enough to put up with being dependent?

Do you have any possibility of going back to your old job?

Can you think of any other steps that would make you less dependent?