Radical Acceptance

[inepted]

So, this is what it feels like. I think Ive come to terms with the fact that there isnt anything I can do to change my situation anymore.

My BPDexgf and I instant messaged each other yesterday. We talked a little about her BPD, and then the topic shifted to relationships. She refused to give many straight forward answers.

me: Do you think about us getting back together?

Her: Sometimes.

Me: Have you made a list of pros and cons?

her: Yes.

me: and?

her: I dont really remember what i wrote. I really just found i needed time to focus on myself. what about you?

me: Makes sense. I did too. And I still want to get back together. I miss that companionship we had

her: friends can have that too

her: there. I applied for another job

me: Thats good. Let me know how that goes.

me: As I was saying, I mean did it ever feel like we had a special connection?

her: if we did, its gone now. I am stilll not sure how I feel.

me: Alright, fair enough. Thank you for being honest. it feels nice to have some kind of closure in a sense.

After the conversation, I felt sort of a calm come over me. I finally have come to terms with the fact that I cant change the way she feels or what she does. It still hurts how it feels like she just completely turned off her feelings to me, and how cold she is to me right now. And, I still wonder if she's just keeping me around as a friend because shes worried things wont work out with her new friends, but whatever happens, happens.

From what others have told me, Im still the first ex she has nothing bad to say about. And she's still holding onto the old letters I used to write her. Maybe Im crazy, but I would like to believe she is still holding feelings for me to some degree. Regardless, I think it might be good for me to be on my own as well for a while to heal and learn, while she's in her own DBT therapy. And in the mean time, Im still going to continue to try and be friends and offer my support if or when she needs it.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[angelica_evil]

I am glad you finally felt that inner calm wash over. It is really a great feeling when we can be at peace with ourselves, if not with others. I too, have just spent the night reading about radical acceptance, when Grey Kitty just mentioned it in another thread, and I think that for short term goals, if I am going to stick around, it is something I am going to HAVE to get used to.

It does sound like she is holding onto some things, and probably for the reasons you stated... a 'just in case' scenario, a lifeboat if she should find herself alone. The fact that she is still in contact shows that too. When we break up with someone, and we truly do wish to be their friend after it all, we must always give ourselves that few months to adjust, otherwise jealousy rears it's ugly head, and it's too difficult.  It usually takes me at least a half year of total removal to reset my heart and head to friend status for that person, even if I say I am ok and am 'over it' before then, I really am not, and am just merely 'holding on'. However, take a personal inventory right now for yourself. Do you really want to be her friend? Can you be her friend? If she invited you over this weekend for, say, dinner, and had a new boyfriend or love interest there, could you tolerate seeing her kiss him, hold his hand, say nice things to him, without wanting to die inside? probably not.

This means that even though you have the best intentions, saying that you are okay with being her friend, and will 'be there for her' isn't altogether true, you are just hoping to hold on, and stick around her in case things don't pan out and she wants to come back. Or, if she just changes her mind. If you were truly her friend, you would be able to tolerate the aforementioned situation, no if, ands, or buts about it. And I speak from personal experience when I say this... if you allude to the fact that you are totally there for her as a friend, and then find yourself feeling upset, hurt, jealous, etc... she will feel betrayed, duped, lied to, and those feelings will trigger her worst BPD behavior, most likely. If she believes that you are a friend, and you cannot find it within yourself to carry out the normal friend 'duties', she can turn on you, and see you as even more of a bad person than she does when she had previously blacked you out. I don;t have BPD, however, I have had two really close male best friends in the last 20 years... .  both I believed to truly be my friends, and nothing more. I honestly didn't see that there was more to it. So when I would go from single, to finding a new boyfriend, lover, etc., and the bitterness and jealousy reared their heads, and i realized that they weren't my friends for selfless reasons after all, I felt horrible betrayal. I felt they should have been honest with me.

Bottom line, even though saying you are her 'friend' and 'there for her, no matter what' may sound like the right things to say to her, don't say them unless you truly mean them. Period. You will irreversibly wreck any friendship or possible revisit of a relationship with her if she sees this as a betrayal. Remember that BPD sufferers are very emotionally immature and stunted. Lying about being her friend is something that is bound to forever get you "kicked out of her sandbox" if she catches on. Just wanted to add that, because it certainly seems, from an outsider point of view, that you are not ready to be her friend.

[inepted]

Very good point. I can admit that I am still holding on like you mentioned. While I know I couldn't be okay with seeing her with another person say a week from now, I do really want to be okay with it in the future. And I even admit I feel somewhat jealous when I know shes ignoring me for someone else, but Im letting it go. Ive been doing my own things and simply not letting it bother me.

We've been through a lot together, and I truly still want to remain the best of friends. We have always been there for each other, and even though we have hurt each other in the past, that friendship we had is worth saving. Im not saying its going to be easy, and I know it will be a long road ahead. I really appreciate your insight.

[somethingtolose]

Very good point. I can admit that I am still holding on like you mentioned. While I know I couldn't be okay with seeing her with another person say a week from now, I do really want to be okay with it in the future. And I even admit I feel somewhat jealous when I know shes ignoring me for someone else, but Im letting it go. Ive been doing my own things and simply not letting it bother me.

We've been through a lot together, and I truly still want to remain the best of friends. We have always been there for each other, and even though we have hurt each other in the past, that friendship we had is worth saving. Im not saying its going to be easy, and I know it will be a long road ahead. I really appreciate your insight.

Well, having been through the whole thing already, I would be telling my past self to go no contact (in a gentle way). Because the odds are she's attempting to get into another relationship or already is in a new one. She might stay in contact either way, but she'll talk about the new guy and you will inevitably act hurt when she talks about them and then she will turn on you viciously for not understanding... .  or one day when she's sure she's found the new guy, she'll simply tell you that and tell you to move on, when you react badly, she'll then tell you all the reasons why you're terrible.

I could be wrong, but I'm just saying it's unlikely this will have a good ending. Although if you really like being with her, it's likely that in 6-9 months after the next guy she'll try to get back with you, so it'll be on you to choose to create boundaries. Sorry for all the predictions, hope I'm wrong. Good luck.

[TigerEye]

Just another angle on this, how do you feel about your gf and friendships with the ex's, would you be ok with her being best friends with your replacement after they split?. How many ex's of yours are you best friends with, and would your g/f be ok with this? I feel it tends to bring an odd dynamic to the relationship as there is this feeling floating around that the close friendship can show that there isn't a complete break from the initial r/s. From what can be read here and from personal experience these friendships can cause problems in the r/s.

[inepted]

Well, having been through the whole thing already, I would be telling my past self to go no contact (in a gentle way). Because the odds are she's attempting to get into another relationship or already is in a new one. She might stay in contact either way, but she'll talk about the new guy and you will inevitably act hurt when she talks about them and then she will turn on you viciously for not understanding... .  or one day when she's sure she's found the new guy, she'll simply tell you that and tell you to move on, when you react badly, she'll then tell you all the reasons why you're terrible.

I could be wrong, but I'm just saying it's unlikely this will have a good ending. Although if you really like being with her, it's likely that in 6-9 months after the next guy she'll try to get back with you, so it'll be on you to choose to create boundaries. Sorry for all the predictions, hope I'm wrong. Good luck.

She has actually tested me with this several times already. "Oh hey Im going to go hang out with so-and-so today." Or "Hey we got coffee and this happened" I smile and ask if she had fun. She tries not to show it, but she gets really annoyed that I wont give in and act hurt or jealous and she backs off and wont talk to me for a while.

[inepted]

Just another angle on this, how do you feel about your gf and friendships with the ex's, would you be ok with her being best friends with your replacement after they split?. How many ex's of yours are you best friends with, and would your g/f be ok with this? I feel it tends to bring an odd dynamic to the relationship as there is this feeling floating around that the close friendship can show that there isn't a complete break from the initial r/s. From what can be read here and from personal experience these friendships can cause problems in the r/s.

While we were together I had to deal with this a lot actually. She has a lot of issues with being too friendly with people to the point friends think she's flirting. I would point it out in the past and she would just claim to be oblivious to it. Maybe she was, or maybe she just liked the attention. I dont know. And I would be jealous, but after a while, I would begin to catch myself. Whenever I became jealous I would make a mental note to myself and look at my feelings until it bothered me less and less when she would eventually do it again.

[somethingtolose]

While it may feel like it's worth it in the moment (I sure thought so), rewiring your brain for another person (ignoring all your instincts of morality to keep her happy) will likely have ramifications that you aren't aware of right now.

I don't think they are intentionally testing you, or if they are, when they see that you don't react, it probably confirms to them that what your relationship isn't a big deal, "If he did love me, he would be screaming at me right now."

And they are flirting and trying to attract the next person that can meet their needs. And again, they aren't doing this intentionally, they just have bottomless needs that they are trying to cope with. The girl I met in school gave zero indication that she had a boyfriend for around two months (can't remember exactly). She was inviting me on these, what seemed exactly like "dates", and during the middle of one, she casually mentioned that she had a boyfriend.

I didn't react either, but that was my first red flag that I ignored because of how much fun I had with her. Then later on she would casually mention kissing him and that's when I truly felt crushed ("She can't possibly be interested in me if she's talking like this." At that point, I simply accepted the fact that she didn't like me (which I couldn't understand because of the chemistry and all the complaining about her boyfriend). And then suddenly, she broke up with him. The very next day she literally jumped on top of me and I that was the third huge red flag.

The more that you ignore these intuitive impulses, the more you keep taking the punches, the more you will regret and the more suffering you will endure. I would advise you to act like she's a terrible heroin habit and attempt an intervention on yourself... .  once again, good luck.

[angelica_evil]

We've been through a lot together, and I truly still want to remain the best of friends. We have always been there for each other, and even though we have hurt each other in the past, that friendship we had is worth saving. Im not saying its going to be easy, and I know it will be a long road ahead. I really appreciate your insight.

Were you involved with her right away when you met her? or did you have a long friendship first? Because a lot of times, we mistake these feelings of love and affection for a deep friendship with the person. Have you ever not been attracted to her? If not, how can you know that you did have a great 'friendship', rather than just a happy stage of a relationship? I apologize if I am coming off as a negative nancy here, and I don't mean to be so contradictory, I just want you to maybe be able to realize that just because we had happy times with someone, it doesn't mean we had a solid friendship, it could have been just romantic love, lust, infatuation, etc.

Handle this one with care. I would also advise going into a NC situation, at least for a little while, so you can experience life without her at all, and also, take a step back from the situation and be honest with yourself about it. While I am in no way advocating for you to 'leave' her, you do certainly seem to need some time without talking to her regularly, to assess where you are at.

[inepted]

Were you involved with her right away when you met her? or did you have a long friendship first? Because a lot of times, we mistake these feelings of love and affection for a deep friendship with the person. Have you ever not been attracted to her? If not, how can you know that you did have a great 'friendship', rather than just a happy stage of a relationship? I apologize if I am coming off as a negative nancy here, and I don't mean to be so contradictory, I just want you to maybe be able to realize that just because we had happy times with someone, it doesn't mean we had a solid friendship, it could have been just romantic love, lust, infatuation, etc.

Handle this one with care. I would also advise going into a NC situation, at least for a little while, so you can experience life without her at all, and also, take a step back from the situation and be honest with yourself about it. While I am in no way advocating for you to 'leave' her, you do certainly seem to need some time without talking to her regularly, to assess where you are at.

Fully understandable, and I value the feedback. It started as a long distance thing actually and were actually friends for a while. I met her when she was still with her previous ex, and we were friends for quite some time after she got out of the relationship with her. Yea I know, red flag. But thats why we really didnt jump into things right away. As time went on we bonded and got close. At the core, I really believe we had a strong friendship. And on top of that friendship we built a relationship on. Or perhaps thats just the eternal optimist in me.

Ive been doing mostly no contact for the past couple weeks. There are days when neither of us will talk to each other. In fact I actually talk with her mother over facebook more than I talk to her at the moment. I would go completely NC, but even though she says she's not suicidal at the moment, its usually when she feels "better" she gets the carpet pulled out from her and she spirals down pretty fast. The last couple suicide attempts she pretended she was so well, not even her therapist knew something was wrong. I've been the one person she's ever fully trusted and the only person she told when she OD'ed on a huge amount of pills. As much as I know its not my responsibility, I dont know if I could live with myself if anything happened to her.

[Grey Kitty]

I would go completely NC, but even though she says she's not suicidal at the moment, its usually when she feels "better" she gets the carpet pulled out from her and she spirals down pretty fast. The last couple suicide attempts she pretended she was so well, not even her therapist knew something was wrong. I've been the one person she's ever fully trusted and the only person she told when she OD'ed on a huge amount of pills. As much as I know its not my responsibility, I dont know if I could live with myself if anything happened to her.

Yikes!   Did you really say you are staying in closer contact because you are afraid she might commit suicide if you went NC.

Think about what that means.

My suggestion is look and see if you can find more of what you started this thread with: Radical Acceptance

[inepted]

Yikes!   Did you really say you are staying in closer contact because you are afraid she might commit suicide if you went NC.

Think about what that means.

My suggestion is look and see if you can find more of what you started this thread with: Radical Acceptance

Fair point. Im not saying Im afraid she might commit suicide if I went NC. But rather Im simply saying I want to leave some line of communication in place *if* it would ever get that bad. Again, I know its not my responsibility. Im not initiating contact any longer though. Its been three days now with out anyone talking to each other, so, whatever happens, happens.

[angelica_evil]

Its been three days now with out anyone talking to each other, so, whatever happens, happens.

Any update to this? How are things going now?

[inepted]

Any update to this? How are things going now?

Well, I wasnt really sure how we left things when I went no contact, so as someone suggested in another thread to send her a small message, "Thinking of you, Take whatever space you need; I'll be glad to hear from you if and when you are ready." which pretty much went ignored. Then a day later she reads my facebook profile to see I got a new job offer. Suddenly she's excited and happy, asking all kinds of questions about it.

Once she was satisfied, an hour later she's doing her own job hunting and isnt going so well. She went back to being cold, and the silent treatment started again. I ended the conversation by wishing her luck on her job hunt. All I can figure is shes trying to keep tabs on me, in the event things don't work out with her new friends. But, who knows.