Contact During Separation II

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I am posting this as a Part II  of the above thread.   Yes, I will figure out how to deal with my uBPD wife if she intends to just keep the marriage in limbo with us separated.  She said she wanted a divorce many times in the last two months, so a month ago after she attacked me verbally and physically I left and went to my family home in the woods.  I have not been back since.  When I told her last week that if she didn't have the time, I would file for divorce and even let her review a draft before I filed it.  She had a full meltdown complete with sobbing, saying there is no rush.

Due to this exchange with her, I question whether she will, or even wants to proceed with a divorce.   I need to know.  This cannot continue.

[Mike_confused]

I am posting this as a Part II  of the above thread.   Yes, I will figure out how to deal with my uBPD wife if she intends to just keep the marriage in limbo with us separated.  She said she wanted a divorce many times in the last two months, so a month ago after she attacked me verbally and physically I left and went to my family home in the woods.  I have not been back since.  When I told her last week that if she didn't have the time, I would file for divorce and even let her review a draft before I filed it.  She had a full meltdown complete with sobbing, saying there is no rush.

Due to this exchange with her, I question whether she will, or even wants to proceed with a divorce.   I need to know.  This cannot continue.

[marbleloser]

" I question whether she will, or even wants to proceed with a divorce."

The question is Mike,do you? I was standing in your shoes not too long ago. Same EXACT scenario. I worked on me. She didn't work on her.

How long do you want to continue living like this? Rest assured,if you go back,the demands will increase if she doesn't change. And,if you don't meet just one of those demands,you'll be blacker than black.

For me,I filed. I forgot what being me was like. Luckily,your kids are grown if you go that route.

[Mike_confused]

In my previous post I have stated that UNLESS she make a monumental and unprecedented effort to reconcile that includes an admission that much of the difficulties originate from her behavior, AND she seeks meaningful therapy, I will not return to her.  I will end the marriage.

My concern is that I will wait for her to begin a divorce process and she will put it off, effectively leaving me in limbo.   If I sense this happening I will tell her that we are moving forward, whether it is together or apart.

[Mike_confused]

One thing that has made our marriage stormier that many I read about here is that I actually have called her out on her garbage many times, usually followed by me heading for the camp in the woods.

[Mike_confused]

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=194493.0

Above is the link to part I of this string if anyone is interested.  I do not type all that fast, so I pass this on to avoid re-typing all the background.

[Mike_confused]

Now my uBPD wife is staying quiet and keeping her distance other than to update me on her pre-op doctors visit for a disk fusion in her low back next week.  Has her aunt coming to take care of her... .  I was going to do it before she had her meltdown and threw me out.  She tells me I stress her out and ruin her health - I read that to be "the person that I am is not easily controlled by the BPD which causes angst in her". 

For the last two months I irritate her just because I have my own personality.  She can have her peace.  My cabin in the woods is very peaceful too. 

[Mike_confused]

well, my uBPD wife is no longer quiet.   We have not talked in nearly 2 weeks.  In this post and my previous one (see link) I mentioned she is having surgery on her back to fuse disks.   Sent her a text yesterday asking if she would be OK with me visiting her in the hospital.  No response until almost midnight last night.  She called my house.  I did not answer.  Then she sent a text saying that I must be asleep.  I did not respond.  Then she sent a text again saying she wanted to talk about be visiting her in the hospital.

We do need to talk about that.  Not at almost midnight - that is on her terms and something she has always done to me: keep me up late when I am up early for work.   She has not gotten up early for work since I have known her and has not worked since a year before we were married.  I was not going to let her hold me hostage on the phone at that time of night.  Not anymore.

She told me a couple weeks ago that I had let her down when she needed me most - during this time before and after surgery.  Perspective is an amazing thing.   She told me she wanted a divorce and that she was not going to have sex with me again and that I should just leave.   She then got violent with me during this conversation and punched me in the head.   I can certainly take a punch.  She can go to hell if she thinks I would or should have stayed past that point.

She let herself down.   My perspective has changed somehow over the 6 weeks of separation.

[Mike_confused]

Another update... .  she text messaged me three times, with phone calls in between saying she wanted to talk to me.  I was on a conference call and she wouldn't stop.  We haven't said three words in a couple weeks... .  she basically shunned me.  OK fine - I accepted that.

Now she needs to talk to me to tell me thank you for everything I have done for her.  I said you are welcome.  I didn't bite.

Sounds like she is chasing me.   I don't think I can go back to her.

[Mike_confused]

I got a series of text messages last night saying she needed (my uBPD wife) to talk to me.  I didn't respond for some time as I was busy.  The messages started out with "I really want to talk to you" and became more desperate sounding "you won't help me just like everyone else".   I finally did call her back.   She kept me on the phone for over an hour.  It was obvious that I am the one that is able to soothe her.   Too bad I am also the object of scorn, ridicule and criticism or I might be able to soothe her more effectively.  The topic was all about her - how she had her monthly falling with her friend (someone I believe to be as disordered as my uBPD wife).  She also told me how no one was supporting her with her upcoming back surgery.   I was going to until she threw me out 6 weeks ago and said she wanted a divorce.

I remained detached throughout the conversation, but kept it positive and supportive.  I assume I am being used a a source of comfort, which is no comfort to me anymore.  I also surmise that she is making a back handed attempt at recycling, with the hope that I will attempt to reconcile.

I will not attempt to reconcile with her.  Any OVERT attempt at reconciliation by her will probably not be satisfactory either unless she admits she personally has a serious problem and that her current therapist is now helping her with that.   I fully understand that it is highly improbable that she will do this.

I could use feedback on my last couple days of posts.     Anyone?

[sotiredtoonice]

I am in no real position to offer advice here, but I do want to point out one thing after reading through your thread. You have said what it would take for her to get you back, your conditions. You have spoke about how she continues to contact you regarding her upcoming surgery. It seems to me that is all she contacts you about, either she is needing your for something or she is telling you not to go through with the divorce. I don't see anywhere mentioned that she has even thought about the changes she would need to make. Sounds to me like changes aren't even a consideration for her. Just my two cents.

[sad but wiser]

  That keeping you up late when you need to get up early to go to work thing sounded errily familiar.  My husband used to do that, and yes he texts me very late at night, then rages when I don't answer. (This is because I am asleep, getting the rest I need to go to work.)  He didn't work either, but would let me know that he had to sleep in because he was tired in the morning.   

  I'm not telling you what to do, but I have moved forward with a divorce.  This condition can take many years of therapy to function reasonably, and I almost lost myself entirely in all the blame and shame and chaos.  Life is short.

[sotiredtoonice]

My H currently does the keeping me up thing. I try to keep a fairly strict sleep schedule, it helps me not have headaches, and since he stays up all night and sleeps all day, he thinks its fine to keep me up. I usually have to make him mad just to get him to let me go to sleep. He of course does not see the issue because he doesn't have to be at work at 8am. Just one of the many boundaries I have not fully enforced... .  SIGH.

[sad but wiser]

So tired, I'm sorry to hear about it.  If you were a BPD PA person, you would "lose" your job so that you could sleep all day too.  It is hard being the responsible one.  Of course he only needs "one more minute" to finish.  Please stay healthy & take care of yourself.

[Mike_confused]

Sotired... .  

You are correct... .  uBPD wife wants support during and after surgery, sympathy and so on.   I don't think she wants to go forward with a divorce and she has taken NO steps to make believe she accepts any responsibility.

As I have said, I will have nothing to do with her unless she makes a major apology, takes REAL steps to correcting the issues she has instead of demonizing me with her friends, oh yeah and she needs to get a job.

I don't think she has it in her.  It is easier for her to seek sympathy from well-meaning but ignorant people that do not know the real her.

I will not make one move toward reconciliation, in fact, if she continues to leave me hanging in limbo I will have HER served with papers.

[sotiredtoonice]

Well since she has her family coming to help her with the surgery, what would happen if you just stopped taking her calls? No point in giving her what she wants when she hasn't considered what you want... .     (btw, if you have any suggestions on how to take my own advice, that would be great!  )

[Mike_confused]

she knows her family won't take care of here well.  she also knows that I would have.     another case of what I can do for her.    my uBPD wife is a one ways street.

[pessim-optimist]

Hi Mike,

Lost track of you for a while.

I have read your posts and this is what your situation looks like to me:

(Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just trying to condense it into a clearer picture)

You have said that you love her and would reconcile, if she did certain things.

If she won't, you want to move forward without her.

Right now, you are waiting to see what's going to happen, but don't want to wait forever.

I can't give advice on what exactly to do or say, and reading some of the books on BPD might help you with the details. But I seem to see one thing in this situation that I wanted to point out:

You have said you don't want to stay in limbo for long.

Is waiting your own active decision, or just a reaction to her inaction?

[Mike_confused]

Waiting for a defined period is my decision.  I will file for divorce if I see no movement on her part.   Pessioptimist, the bottom line is if there is any hope for reconciliation, I will not be the one making concessions. 

I do love her, but will only reconcile if things shift my way somewhat.  Otherwise, to hell with it all, I am done.   I have always made all the effort and sacrifice, regardless of what she believes.

I am not a pushover, and I am beyond my limit as far as what I will tolerate from her.   I haven't seen her in 6 weeks.   She is now attempting to re-engage with me in the hopes that I will ask to come back.  Under no circumstance will I make any overture of any sort regarding reconciliation.   In my mind the burden is on her to acknowledge her needs and wants.

If my attitude inhibits any reconciliation, then so be it.   I am at the point now where I will either have things my way with her or I will have things my way without her.  A contract will only survive when it benefits both parties.

She pushed me too far.

[Mike_confused]

All and anyone... .  

I am more thoroughly confused than ever... .  went to the hospital yesterday.  If you read above, she had lower back surgery.  She was in recovery when I got there - no problems and a complete success.  I am grateful for that.  Her parents were there.  Mind you, at this point I had not seen here in 6 weeks.

Her father and I get along well.  he immediately tells me the room number and telephone and says that he wanted to be sure I had all the information.  Uh huh.  More on him in a minute.    He mother was in the midst of one of her masterful NPD performances titled "Look at What a Wonderful Mother I am".   No surprises.

She is transferred to her room and in we go.   Other family members are there but she tells me thank you so much for all you do for me.  The women start talking ... .  nurses in and out, and so on.  Her father and I go get her bag from the car in the parking garage.  Along the way, he starts talking about something... .  topic doesn't matter.  In the midst of his story he says "and we have do deal with women that think they know it all until they need us".  Very true.  His wife (my mother in law) and my wife are cut from similar cloth.

Back to the room, she is feeling well but groggy from the pain killers.  Her parents leave.  Before her father goes he say "she can't handle stress. Now that the surgery is over she will be a lot better".  

She holds my hand and is half out of it.  After about 5 hours I decide to go.  I tell her to call me if she needs anything.   I go home.  It is about 8 o'clock.   At 10:30 she calls me at home (we are separated).  She talks to me for an hour and a half, telling me how she is grateful that I have continued to support her and keep her on my health insurance .  She thanks me for coming to see her, and asks me to come see her tomorrow (now today).

Today I show up at 12:30 PM with a wrap from a deli and some other lunch items.   I am dressed well and look good in a shirt and tie. We talk, we eat.  She asks me why I am not wearing my wedding ring.   Folks, I need to say this again:  my uBPD wife asks my why I am not wearing my wedding ring.  I reply "because you said you wanted a divorce".  She the says "but we aren't divorced, we are still married - if you don't wear your ring you look single".

My mind is spinning with a verbal counterattack at this point.  I don't attack since she was very pleasant.   She is reading a book that is called "What Women Fear".  From the little i perused it, it described symptoms that sound a lot like BPD with out using the label.

I hang out with her for 5 hours... .  she is very pleasant to me.   I leave at 6 pm.   She hugs me tight and kisses me.  I have done my job, having been respectful and supportive.

To really round out the day, my uBPD wife is on the phone with me now.   She tells me of her good friend and her friend's husband deciding not to divorce, and instead working on their marriage.   Nothing my uBPD wife says is accidental.

I welcome anyone's thoughts.

[pessim-optimist]

Hi Mike, read your post,

I would like to understand better: What part of the story seems to be the confusing factor for you in this scenario?

[Mike_confused]

What confuses me is what is her deal?  Is she trying to get me back?   Why is she so concerned about what I am doing?

[pessim-optimist]

Yes, I think she does not want to lose you, and feel abandoned.

That would explain why she had a meltdown re. you filing for divorce (even though she asked for it originally)

I think her request for postponement might just be a maneuver to make it all eventually go away.

It would also explain why she asked about why you were not wearing your wedding ring (possibly fears that you might be attracting potential new partners = fear of abandonment)

And also why she talked about that other couple deciding not to divorce (in-between-the-lines signal of what she actually wants.)

[Mike_confused]

I think you are right.

[Mike_confused]

So is this the classic BPD push/pull?   If I were to pursue my uBPD wife I am sure she will pull back.

[pessim-optimist]

Yes, it is.

And if you did not know about BPD, the outcome would be VERY predictable:

Either she would be able to pull you back in and the situation would repeat itself, or you would be finally fed-up and leave her, because of all the problematic behaviors.

You now have more options. Since you know about BPD, you can still leave, if you decide to, but you are more informed. And if you decide to stay, you can start behaving differently (in terms of what the books recommend), and even though you cannot change your wife, you can change the dynamics of your interactions, so they are more acceptable to you and so that you can protect yourself.

[sad but wiser]

Mike-confused I just went through the same scenario recently.  I was evil, bad, horrible, wanted him to die, obviously without feeling, etc, etc,  He filed, I responded.  then it's flowers and let's get together you're so great and I'm back into the white.  I won't say it wasn't a relief.  Okay, it wasn't a relief.  By then I knew that it was just a mood.  Besides, life on the outside of our relationship was tougher for him than for me.

  Remember, they split you black, they split you white, but they don't see you.  You are what they say you are and very convenient.  Your choice... .  you can go knowingly into this life and try to help her some more, or you can walk away.  If you stay, it won't be appreciated.  If you go, you are split black forever.

[Mike_confused]

Not of the last two days have swayed my thinking at this point.  I now understand what emotional reasoning is... .  the wedding ring thing described above is classic.  This Board has helped along with along with much reading.  Her shock at me not wearing my ring is absolutely illogical given that she forced me out, painted me black and claimed she wanted a divorce. 

She called me after midnight and did not want to get off the phone.  I am guessing to see if I was at home, now that she is worried about me not wearing my ring.   She told me she is confused.  great.  I said that I am confused as to why she was surprised that I was not wearing my ring after everything she said a month and a half ago. 

[Mike_confused]

As I was saying above, my uBPD wife did not want to let me off the phone last night.  Intellectually I have a handle on BPD symptoms and causes.  Nevertheless, the completely illogical nature of her statements and actions blow my mind.  To tell me for two months that I am not a good Christian, an inconsiderate husband, that I neglect her and don't put her first and that she wants a divorce... .  and then to ask why I don't have my wedding ring on because we are not divorced yet is beyond disbelief for me.

Oh... .  the good Christian friends that she has recently made in her support group did nothing to help her before, during and after her surgery.  No visits.  No calls. No cards.  I never saw THAT coming!

[WalrusGumboot]

So is this the classic BPD push/pull?   If I were to pursue my uBPD wife I am sure she will pull back.

Mike, I recently went through a 14 month separation and an ultimate divorce finalized last April. Reading your posts sent chills down my spine because so much seems like a carbon copy of what I went through. I completely understand your confusion because I found the separation to be the most confusing time of my life. In many ways it was worse than living with her.

Here is the bottom line that you must remember: Everything she is doing, she is doing it for the best benefit of her. Period.

If she thinks she has to admit fault and promise to get help to keep you from divorcing, she will do it. But don't expect her heart be in it or actually follow through with any promises. When she is clingy to you, it's because she needs you (to help keep her from being lonely, at least). When you don't hear from her for a time, she has replaced your companionship.

The challenge you seem to have ahead is that it appears her so-called "friends" are not rallying around her. This happened to my ex. What this may mean is that to keep her from feeling totally abandoned all around, she will keep around who is the easiest to manipulate - YOU!

My friend, I hate to say it, but it appears you will have to be the bad-ass that pulls the trigger on the marriage and rams the divorce through. It was multiple recycles in my divorce and I finally had to do just that. She cried and begged and pleaded for me not to got through with it. She threw as much guilt on me as she could. That night she begged me and cried like a little girl, and I had to muster up the courage to tell her there was no chance of reconciliation anymore... I tell you, it was like I was kicking a puppy out in the rain or clubbing a baby seal... .  so painfully hard. The guilt was mind-numbing but I followed through. But here is the kicker. A few months after the divorce, my son announces to me that he met her new boyfriend, and this was before the divorce. In fact, it was about the time that she begged and cried.  So, it was all about her yet again! A performance certainly deserving of an Emmy!

You have one foot out. It is a whole lot easier to follow through at this point than get recycled in and start the process all over again a year from now.

[Mike_confused]

Walrus... .  

I do have one foot out.  That is why her behavior, even though I know understand it better than before, confuses me so by introducing guilt and my sense of obligation.  Even though I have read all i can about it and have been on this site for a couple months, her behavior in the last couple days absolutely blows my mind.