Are relationships important, and why?

[mosaicbird]

Okay, bear with me... .  The thread title itself might seem very stupid, as may the contents of this post. I have difficulty grasping things that other people seem to think are very basic parts of being "human", and a big one is relationships - mostly friendships and intimate relationships.

I tend to say that relationships are not my primary focus or interest in life. They're just there, sometimes. (I say, having spent only several months in the last decade NOT being in an intimate relationship.) Of course I don't know that I could say what my primary focus *is*... .  just that relationships are not a priority. But I've been told that's a cop-out that just lets me off the hook for my behavior in said relationships... .  that if I'm truly not interested in them, I shouldn't engage with people at all and mislead them into believing that I am capable of attaching and interacting like an adult.

Perhaps my saying "Relationships are not a priority for me" means that I'm just being dismissive of the people that are involved with me... .  that THEY are not a priority for me. Ouch! I think it's true. (I suppose it seems obvious when written out, but it never really clicked for me before, even though I'm fairly sure it's been said directly to me on many occasions.)

But what is important about relationships? Why do they matter, other than that if you don't have any you end up socially isolated and with no support to call on when you need it, and nobody with whom to share hobbies or discuss common interests? Those things matter to me, to an extent, but mostly I live inside my own head and only want one or two people in my life.

I was reviewing some notes I took to therapy a few years ago, one such set from when I had an unusual moment of thinking I should work on my relationship skills (normally I don't care unless I feel that one is on the verge of ending and that I'm in danger of losing someone... and honestly I didn't care much at that point, either, because I thought, "Well, this is who I am. Why are these people around me if these things bother them so much?". The notes were things partners said to me repeatedly about my behavior:

Close Relationships : Issues (According to others)

   - Distant

   - Negative

   - Hypercritical

   - Dismissive

   - Impatient

   - Emotionally unavailable (merge w/ distant?) (fails to emote positive or tender sentiments)

   - Moody/irritable  (v. defensive)

   - Untrusting

   - Depersonalization (? Don't believe that I affect/impact others, despite what they say or indicate to the contrary) (also treats people impersonally)

   - More concerned with the opinions of strangers than opinions of significant other

   - Not supportive (not compassionate, does not act caring)

   - Difficult to communicate with (does not communicate well in turn, problems with maintaining frequent communication)

   - Negative expectations (and the active projection of those negative expectations onto other people, goading them to fulfill them)

   - Can't accept compliments

   - Can't apologize or accept apologies gracefully

I can look at this list and be aware that these things are all true, but I just cannot seem to get it to click in my head why it matters. If people tolerate this behavior from me (I've been with my current partner for 10 years), it can't be that bad, right? Why would people stick around someone like this? Why would someone tell you for years that you're hurting them, but stay anyway? Do normal people feel an impetus to change their behavior simply because it's hurting the people they care about? I did warn my current partner about my selfishness and tendency to disregard other people's feelings when we became involved, but he stuck around anyway (apparently not believing me in the beginning!), and is still here.

So, back to the main question. What is so important about relationships if they're built on these kinds of avoidant and disingenuous behavior patterns - ones where people stay with people that are hurtful to them simply because there are a few good times and good traits that crop up occasionally? I feel as though all relationships are just a sham of two people trying to get certain needs met as best they can.

[MaybeSo]

Why relationships are important could fill many different books covering psychology, sociology, theology, anthropology... .  

I mean... .  where to start?

Bottom-line, humans seek connection and attachment with other humans. We are pack animals. Babies can die if they aren't held and nurtured. The touch and eye to eye bonding actually stimulates healthy brain development, without it... .  development stalls. We learn to develop a sense of self with interactions with bonded caregivers who have ideally developed their own sense of self. In adulthood a lack of connection with others is correlated with higher rates of serious illness, depression and suicide. Men fair less well without a mate than do females. Humans are wired for relationship.

If we have attachment issues it can affect our ability to have good relationships.

There are folks who had difficulty getting attachment needs met from their caregivers in childhood; they may be used to a challenging, push-pull dynamic of attachment, and gravitate toward partners that feel similar to the challenging  attachment styles from childhood. Despite difficulty, the human animal's instinct is to attach... .  even if the style of attachment is less than optimal, eg., insecure, avoidant, ambivalent or disorganized. Most therapy at it's core is designed to provide the experience of a safe attachment because attachment difficulties can be addressed through a corrective ongoing experience in a safe relationship. We are wounded through  relationship and we are also healed through relationship.

Ok, that's my readers digest explanation of why relationships are important through the lens of attachment theory.

I have no idea if this Is at all helpful, it's a big topic!

[nolisan]

The traits you listed reminded me of my ex. Her behavior was hurtful to be involved with. I feel much better now she is out of my life.

Now I am looking at why I volunteered and endured a year of this. I stayed becasue I was sick - very sick. ACoA and CoDA give me the answers I need:

The Laundry List – 14 Traits of an Adult Child of an Alcoholic

    We became isolated and afraid of people and authority figures.

    We became approval seekers and lost our identity in the process.

    We are frightened of angry people and any personal criticism.

    We either become alcoholics, marry them or both, or find another compulsive personality such as a workaholic to fulfill our sick abandonment needs.

    We live life from the viewpoint of victims and we are attracted by that weakness in our love and friendship relationships.

    We have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility and it is easier for us to be concerned with others rather than ourselves; this enables us not to look too closely at our own faults, etc.

    We get guilt feelings when we stand up for ourselves instead of giving in to others.

    We became addicted to excitement.

    We confuse love and pity and tend to "love" people we can "pity" and "rescue."

    We have "stuffed" our feelings from our traumatic childhoods and have lost the ability to feel or express our feelings because it hurts so much (Denial).



    We judge ourselves harshly and have a very low sense of self-esteem.

    We are dependent personalities who are terrified of abandonment and will do anything to hold on to a relationship in order not to experience painful abandonment feelings, which we received from living with sick people who were never there emotionally for us.

    Alcoholism is a family disease; and we became para-alcoholics and took on the characteristics of that disease even though we did not pick up the drink.

    Para-alcoholics are reactors rather than actors.

[nolisan]

    Patterns and Characteristics of Codependence

    These patterns and characteristics are offered as a tool to aid in self-evaluation.

    They may be particularly helpful to newcomers.

    Denial Patterns:

    I have difficulty identifying what I am feeling.

    I minimize, alter, or deny how I truly feel.

    I perceive myself as completely unselfish and dedicated to the well-being of others.

    I lack empathy for the feelings and needs of others.

    I label others with my negative traits.

    I can take care of myself without any help from others.

    I mask my pain in various ways such as anger, humor, or isolation.

    I express negativity or aggression in indirect and passive ways.

    I do not recognize the unavailability of those people to whom I am attracted.

    Low Self Esteem Patterns:

    I have difficulty making decisions.

    I judge what I think, say, or do harshly, as never good enough.

    I am embarrassed to receive recognition, praise, or gifts.

    I value others’ approval of my thinking, feelings, and behavior over my own.

    I do not perceive myself as a lovable or worthwhile person.

    I constantly seek recognition that I think I deserve.

    I have difficulty admitting that I made a mistake.

    I need to appear to be right in the eyes of others and will even lie to look good.

    I am unable to ask others to meet my needs or desires.

    I perceive myself as superior to others.

    I look to others to provide my sense of safety.

    I have difficulty getting started, meeting deadlines, and completing projects.

    I have trouble setting healthy priorities.

    Compliance Patterns:

    I am extremely loyal, remaining in harmful situations too long.

    I compromise my own values and integrity to avoid rejection or anger.

    I put aside my own interests in order to do what others want.

    I am hypervigilant regarding the feelings of others and take on those feelings.

    I am afraid to express my beliefs, opinions, and feelings when they differ from those of others.

    I accept sexual attention when I want love.

    I make decisions without regard to the consequences.

    I give up my truth to gain the approval of others or to avoid change.

    Control Patterns:

    I believe most people are incapable of taking care of themselves.

    I attempt to convince others what to think, do, or feel.

    I freely offer advice and direction to others without being asked.

    I become resentful when others decline my help or reject my advice.

    I lavish gifts and favors on those I want to influence.

    I use sexual attention to gain approval and acceptance.

    I have to be needed in order to have a relationship with others.

    I demand that my needs be met by others.

    I use charm and charisma to convince others of my capacity to be caring and compassionate.

    I use blame and shame to emotionally exploit others.

    I refuse to cooperate, compromise, or negotiate.

    I adopt an attitude of indifference, helplessness, authority, or rage to manipulate outcomes.

    I use terms of recovery in an attempt to control the behavior of others.

    I pretend to agree with others to get what I want.

    Avoidance Patterns:

    I act in ways that invite others to reject, shame, or express anger toward me.

    I judge harshly what others think, say, or do.

    I avoid emotional, physical, or sexual intimacy as a means of maintaining distance.

    I allow my addictions to people, places, and things to distract me from achieving intimacy in relationships.

    I use indirect and evasive communication to avoid conflict or confrontation.

    I diminish my capacity to have healthy relationships by declining to use all the tools of recovery.

    I suppress my feelings or needs to avoid feeling vulnerable.

    I pull people toward me, but when they get close, I push them away.

    I refuse to give up my self-will to avoid surrendering to a power that is greater than myself.

    I believe displays of emotion are a sign of weakness.

    I withhold expressions of appreciation.

But there are Masochists too that just enjoy pain.

[mosaicbird]

I suppose it was a rather broad and disingenuous question... .  Objectively, I understand its importance. Attachment theory is something that has been cropping up repeatedly for me over the last few years. The most notable (in that it's the first time I paid attention) being when I read Scattered a few years ago. (ADHD book, which posits that it might be better thought of as Attachment Deficit Disorder in how it originates. Reminds me a bit of this Etiology of BPD article I read the other day, in considering that there is a predisposed temperament (or 3) that is vulnerable to developing the disorder if early attachment bonds are faulty.)

When you grow up in such a way that you're left distrustful and/or rejecting of attachment - when you develop the "I have to be an island so that I am not hurt/do not hurt other people" mindset - it's hard to apply the importance of relationships to oneself, even if you might understand their importance for other people (people who look "normal", people who seem to inherently understand the rules of interaction). And when you try being close to people as an adult, but do nothing but cause damage, it only highlights the futility of it.


Nolisan (and others), I know that what I report about my own behaviors and mindset resembles the people that hurt you. I joined this forum with only the intention of understanding what happened with my own BPD ex and BPD mother, and instead found something very different... .  much of time, I identify much more with the "other side". Even though I was just as lost, confounded, and hurt in my relationship with a pwBPD as the rest of you, I have to admit now that it was a two-way street. I don't know if I'll be strong enough to change it, but at least I'm finally not blinding myself to it.

[nolisan]

MosaicBird - I feel I owe you an amends. Your list triggered me slightly - my reply was more to the ex than you. Sorry about that.

[waitaminute]

Liz Greene (psychologist and astrologer) put it so succinctly.

"we understand ourselves by relating to others"

I buy that. I have decades of "relating to others" experiences that I now need to put to use to understand myself. So like a ship in drydock for assessment and repairs after a hurricane, I am going to assess and repair myself before taking to "the sea" again.

[mosaicbird]

MosaicBird - I feel I owe you an amends. Your list triggered me slightly - my reply was more to the ex than you. Sorry about that.

Amends unnecessary, but the thought is appreciated. I am acutely aware that my posts here might be triggering for those who've been in relationships with people like me (and I keep worrying that I'll get my "get lost" notice.) But I'm learning a lot here, and I hope my posts aren't causing harm. I want to learn and grow, too, and become a better person.

Liz Greene (psychologist and astrologer) put it so succinctly.

"we understand ourselves by relating to others"

I buy that. I have decades of "relating to others" experiences that I now need to put to use to understand myself. So like a ship in drydock for assessment and repairs after a hurricane, I am going to assess and repair myself before taking to "the sea" again.

Oh, man... .  I once ordered one of her indepth couple natal chart interpretations for BPD ex and me. It was all Fire + Fire = explosive damage.   Hah! Maybe we should have paid it a little more heed and stopped trying to roll around in the flames.

I relate to what you're saying, and I feel like it took something on the scale of an interpersonal natural disaster to bring me to this point. I feel like I'm sitting on the docks, looking around at the devastation, and thinking, "What the heck happened here? Wait... .  it was me?" In a way, I'm grateful to the ex for devastating me badly enough that I had no choice this time but to look inward and face myself. I regret that I caused so much damage that it led to that point, though.