Increasing distrust over time

[struggli]

Maybe it's part of growing up, maybe it's becoming more mature -- like one of those painful realizations I've been trying not to accept.

I have had a growing distrust of people, learned from relationships - romantic, workplace, friends, etc.

I've tried to fight it, because it's sort of tragic and sad to me,  but it's probably time to embrace it.

Does anyone else feel this way?

Is it maladaptive?

How do you trust without getting hurt?  Because it seems to be the only outcome.

[Take2]

I have always been a very trusting person but after all I have gone thru in my very troubled relationship... .  I actually have begun to wonder this same thing... .  if I will ever be able to completely trust someone again... .     

It's my normal gut feeling to trust people... .  and I think that once I am able to "find myself" again and fully detach, I will be able to trust again... But that won't mean that I am not guarded at first.  I think waking up to the reality that we should be more observant now after our experiences doesn't mean we won't be able to eventually trust again... .      will you get hurt?  There is always that possibility.  That's just part of life... .   

[maria1]

5 or 6 years ago I thought everybody I cared about were people who told the truth. I thought that the man I had chosen to have children with was trustworthy.

I believed that everybody was more or less the same as me, if I liked them. They must have been because I had good instincts and intuitively knew when people were lying.

Since then my understanding of people and trust in others has unraveled. I'm learning to trust my instincts but I'm now aware that honesty isn't necessarily uppermost for a lot of people. It's a sad and lonely realisation.

But it's necessary. You'll move through it if you grieve your loss and embrace and accept it.

There is a risk involved in trusting and you may get hurt. But the greater risk is sealing yourself up to trusting or loving anybody so that you never feel again. I don't think that's where you're headed Struggli, I think you are starting the really, really hard and painful work. 

[charred]

There is an excellent book on trust ":)aring to Trust" ... well worth reading, explains how to be trustworthy and deal with people who are not. I felt trustworthy till my r/s with a pwBPD... and I was on eggshells and trying not to incite her wrath and would not tell her things (that were none of her business... .  but that part was irrelevant to her)  she claimed I l lied to her, said "errors of omission are just as much lies as errors of commission."  Anyway, I didn't buy her BS... she wanted me to tell her every time I talked to my exwife and everything that was said on both sides... and I told her... go F herself, the government, the church and my own parents never asked such a ridiculous thing, I sure wasn't going to confess all my non-sins to her. Thing is... the pressure and stress from her over it did really bother me. I started out trusting her completely, then by end I suspect if her mouth is moving its some kind of self serving manipulation. The slight paranoia crosses over to everyone though... maybe its PTSD... but I really want to be sure of things since being with her. Dated a nice lady that is a few months older than me, and we have gone out about 5 times, she is in the last part of her divorce (husband got on drugs and it led to breakup, no chance of reconciliation, he is still on them)... and she has given me no reason to be hesitant about being with her... .  but I find myself looking at her FB postings and really trying to make sure she isn't disordered... .  and I never did that before. So perhaps it does decrease your trust in people over time... .  you make them your world then find out your world is based on the lie that they love you and are just like you... .  rather than the far less palatable... they need you and are trying to act like they are normal and have your interests... .  key word being ACT.

[nolisan]

I joke with with my T that I am going to sent any potential new r/s candidates to her for a pysch evaluation.

Knowing what I know now is a great screening tool but you know with the exBPD I had a lot of gut reactions in the early days. I didn't listen to them. My body was telling me she wasn't good for me. My lust and desire for a relationship overrode my intuition.

I feel my intuition has a solid connection with my higher power. I was ignoring Gods wisdom and protection. I needed to learn a painful lesson.

[Rubies]

Since detaching from BPDxh and getting divorced, then dealing with BPDm and FOO and learning I am the butt of many long running fantasies, illusions, hoaxes, mean jokes, and the focus of raging, and the dumping ground for BS... .  TRUST?   

I even assume my therapist lies to me.    I am walking through life assuming it is one big hoax on me and I can't see the hook.  Even though I am smart, acutely aware, not vulnerable to FOG, I know I've been incredibly gullible my entire life.  Being "In Love" is incredibly terrifying.  Two years and I'm not trusting the intensity of feelings, one foot in the other foot getting ready to bolt.  It's too good to be real, he must be getting ready to bash me with a rock.

Yet I have people I say I trust and respect.  I only trust and respect them in the boundaries I have on them.  My boundaries are pretty narrow with people.    Many of these people have told me I am a safe woman and feel close to me.   I'm still trying to figure it all out.

[struggli]

I just read this in another thread.  Rose Tiger listed common negative thoughts of pwBPD.  I cut and pasted the ones I have here:

1. I will always be alone

2. There is no one who really cares about me, who will be available to help me, and whom I can fall back on.

3. If others really get to know me, they will find me rejectable and will not be able to love me; and they will leave me.

11. If someone fails to keep a promise, that person can no longer be trusted.

12. I will never get what I want.

13. If I trust someone, I run a great risk of getting hurt or disappointed.

16. If you refuse someone's request, you run the risk of losing that person.

17. Other people are evil and abuse you.

19. If other people really get to know me they will find me rejectable.

[catsprt]

There are times when I say that I will always be alone (dark hours) and there are moments when I do not care and consider that I could be open to possibilities.

I have no faith in my capacity to screen people now, if I find someone great, my instincts tell me that it is probably too good to be true. A list of elements would not help me. I have known some people who can easily say the right thing and just act differently.

Hope I do not sound too negative.

[struggli]

I have always been a very trusting person but after all I have gone thru in my very troubled relationship... .  I actually have begun to wonder this same thing... .  if I will ever be able to completely trust someone again... .     

It's my normal gut feeling to trust people... .  and I think that once I am able to "find myself" again and fully detach, I will be able to trust again... But that won't mean that I am not guarded at first.  I think waking up to the reality that we should be more observant now after our experiences doesn't mean we won't be able to eventually trust again... .      will you get hurt?  There is always that possibility.  That's just part of life... .   

I don't feel like it's a temporary post-breakup thing.  It's something that has been building and building and I restrict more and more information from people.

[struggli]

5 or 6 years ago I thought everybody I cared about were people who told the truth. I thought that the man I had chosen to have children with was trustworthy.

I believed that everybody was more or less the same as me, if I liked them. They must have been because I had good instincts and intuitively knew when people were lying.

Since then my understanding of people and trust in others has unraveled. I'm learning to trust my instincts but I'm now aware that honesty isn't necessarily uppermost for a lot of people. It's a sad and lonely realisation.

But it's necessary. You'll move through it if you grieve your loss and embrace and accept it.

There is a risk involved in trusting and you may get hurt. But the greater risk is sealing yourself up to trusting or loving anybody so that you never feel again. I don't think that's where you're headed Struggli, I think you are starting the really, really hard and painful work. 

My ex-gfs have deceived me, my friends, my co-workers, strangers.  I am very wary of them all.

[struggli]

There is an excellent book on trust ":)aring to Trust" ... well worth reading, explains how to be trustworthy and deal with people who are not. I felt trustworthy till my r/s with a pwBPD... and I was on eggshells and trying not to incite her wrath and would not tell her things (that were none of her business... .  but that part was irrelevant to her)  she claimed I l lied to her, said "errors of omission are just as much lies as errors of commission."  Anyway, I didn't buy her BS... she wanted me to tell her every time I talked to my exwife and everything that was said on both sides... and I told her... go F herself, the government, the church and my own parents never asked such a ridiculous thing, I sure wasn't going to confess all my non-sins to her. Thing is... the pressure and stress from her over it did really bother me. I started out trusting her completely, then by end I suspect if her mouth is moving its some kind of self serving manipulation. The slight paranoia crosses over to everyone though... maybe its PTSD... but I really want to be sure of things since being with her. Dated a nice lady that is a few months older than me, and we have gone out about 5 times, she is in the last part of her divorce (husband got on drugs and it led to breakup, no chance of reconciliation, he is still on them)... and she has given me no reason to be hesitant about being with her... .  but I find myself looking at her FB postings and really trying to make sure she isn't disordered... .  and I never did that before. So perhaps it does decrease your trust in people over time... .  you make them your world then find out your world is based on the lie that they love you and are just like you... .  rather than the far less palatable... they need you and are trying to act like they are normal and have your interests... .  key word being ACT.

The omission thing kinda got to me.  Maybe it makes me crazy?  But my ex would leave things out of stories (things that would make me uncomfortable, etc) and was still talking with her ex (whom she was not married or otherwise had any business with) and I felt it was emotional cheating.  Some people don't believe in that, but I guess I do.

Anyway... .  

Yes, I think everyone is an actor, myself included.  F--k it all.

[struggli]

I joke with with my T that I am going to sent any potential new r/s candidates to her for a pysch evaluation.

Knowing what I know now is a great screening tool but you know with the exBPD I had a lot of gut reactions in the early days. I didn't listen to them. My body was telling me she wasn't good for me. My lust and desire for a relationship overrode my intuition.

I feel my intuition has a solid connection with my higher power. I was ignoring Gods wisdom and protection. I needed to learn a painful lesson.

My lust and desire for a relationship overrode my intuition as well.  And I feel like my intuition about damn near everyone in my life is to run.  But I need to interact with some of them, so I wear a mask when I talk to them.  Isn't that what a BPD does?

Maybe this is all some weird plot twist where I find out I'm the BPD?

[struggli]

Since detaching from BPDxh and getting divorced, then dealing with BPDm and FOO and learning I am the butt of many long running fantasies, illusions, hoaxes, mean jokes, and the focus of raging, and the dumping ground for BS... .  TRUST?   

I even assume my therapist lies to me.    I am walking through life assuming it is one big hoax on me and I can't see the hook.  Even though I am smart, acutely aware, not vulnerable to FOG, I know I've been incredibly gullible my entire life.  Being "In Love" is incredibly terrifying.  Two years and I'm not trusting the intensity of feelings, one foot in the other foot getting ready to bolt.  It's too good to be real, he must be getting ready to bash me with a rock.

Yet I have people I say I trust and respect.  I only trust and respect them in the boundaries I have on them.  My boundaries are pretty narrow with people.    Many of these people have told me I am a safe woman and feel close to me.   I'm still trying to figure it all out.

This is very close to how I feel.  My boundaries have tightened quite a bit.  I don't trust my T either.  Small town, people know each other.  Plus, some Ts make ~ up to feel you can relate. 

People I work with, when under pressure, will drop anyone under the bus to divert the heat off themselves.  People you think are your buddies will buckle to "the man."

Gossip, cheating, lying, backstabbing.  I've had enough of it all but I can barely get away from it unless I stay silent and isolated.

[struggli]

There are times when I say that I will always be alone (dark hours) and there are moments when I do not care and consider that I could be open to possibilities.

I have no faith in my capacity to screen people now, if I find someone great, my instincts tell me that it is probably too good to be true. A list of elements would not help me. I have known some people who can easily say the right thing and just act differently.

Hope I do not sound too negative.

Maybe you're just being real.  And maybe reality sucks.  Maybe expecting integrity, honesty, etc is emotional immaturity.  Perhaps to deny the nature of people is to not grow up.

[MaybeSo]

There will always be people who hurt or disappoint us.

I think if we feel trusting of ourselves... ".I may get my heart broken, and I trust I can handle it if I do" then we feel more at ease in the world. 

A very good pair of books related to your post: How to be an adult, and How to be an adult in relationships both by David Richo.

[mosaicbird]

I don't know if I've become more distrusting over time or not... .  On the surface, yes. But I think it's a protective defense against my true nature, which is very childish, trusting, and takes things at face value. I act very distrusting, but deep down, I never learn. My mind is distrusting, but my deepest self... .  ? Nope. And I get burned every time.

[waitaminute]

" ' I will have no man in my boat' said Starbuck 'who is not afraid of a whale' "

Herman Melville, Moby Dick - a book about obsession... .  And 19th century whaling  

Distrust? Apprehension? Fear? Certainly relationships need to be respected as capable of causing damage. But if you prepare your own emotional strength and relationship skills, watch the big sea of past and present behavior, and don't take obsession on board your ship, you have a better chance of a good voyage.

[waitaminute]

Mosaicbird,

Love your quote. It's been a long time since I've read Rabindranath Tagore.

[nolisan]

A very good pair of books related to your post: How to be an adult, and How to be an adult in relationships both by David Richo.

I have to laugh at myself - my ex BPD gave me the second book at the beginning (she was a self proclaimed r/s expert). I missed or skipped an early chapter "Choosing a partner" that said avoid the red flags of severe mental illness or criminality.

Whoops! I certainly picked up on it during my second read AFTER the end.

Good book - thinking of getting the first one. Richo is a insightful writer.

(I remember asking ex to do some exercises in the book ... .  never happened. Well read ... .  all talk ... .  little action. I have read this is a characteristic of BPD's. They can be very good readers on theory but not much on integrating the learning into daily living)

[MammaMia]

If your intuition tells you someone is not trustworthy, listen to it.

Trust has to be earned, and it takes time to build a foundation of trust.  Take your time.  If there are signs along the way that things are not as you had hoped, it is time to leave. 

People today are so desperate for love and trust that they jump into relationships too quickly and deny anything within a bad relationship that they do not want to deal with.  They read things into a relationship that are not really there.  Then they wonder why they have been betrayed and hurt. 

The fact is without truth and honesty no relationship will survive.

[charred]

I am experiencing increasing distrust over time... .  non-BPD though... . my exBPDgf... . with her I hit the absolute limit of distrust... . could not trust her less, so it is non-changing.

For me, I used to trust that employers had an interest in having a mutually beneficial honest working r/s. Have worked for a number of large corporations and am convinced that for the most part, the biggest ones I worked in, now are ran by self serving sociopaths.

I am thinking of writing a book about it... . would force me to find new employment... .  but I think that is in the works anyway.

[MammaMia]

charred

I can relate to what you are saying.  I have never seen a workforce as unhappy as people are today.  Yes, it is partly about the "me generation" but for those of us who have been around a long time, it is also a lack of respect, inequitable workloads, loss of benefits, and lack of leadership, guidance, and structure in the workplace.  Anything goes to make a buck.  Reduce the number of employees and pile on the work until people buckle at the knees.  There is little to no appreciation for a job well done.  BUT make a mistake because you are overloaded, and all Hell breaks loose.  Trust is a thing of the past.  Back-stabbing is in.

I hope you do write a book.  I would read it, even if it makes my blood pressure go through the roof.  So much dishonesty and lack of integrity these days.  And employers wonder why excellent employees do not stay.  DUH... .  

I know we are off our normal subject here, but thanks for letting me vent.

[Take2]

For me, I used to trust that employers had an interest in having a mutually beneficial honest working r/s. Have worked for a number of large corporations and am convinced that for the most part, the biggest ones I worked in, now are ran by self serving sociopaths.

I keep wondering if this really is true - that sociopaths often wind up at the top.  One of the VPs where I work really seems to be BPD to me.  I question whether or not it's just that it's on my mind or whether that person truly is.  Either way -it truly confirms that my own ability to trust is different than it used to be.  Well, I find myself trusting but then totally questioning.  I know of two others in upper management at work that are good guys - but yet I can see the NPD/BPD in them also.  I think it must boil down to me being able to see the signs in anyone and many people do have some traits/characteristics on different levels.  A good thing probably for me to now recognize - but in a way, I miss when I didn't have to question every person and their motives. 

[Maryiscontrary]

This is a hell of a thread. I know that this was back in February, but what Rubies said, was extremely salient.

I personally have been screwed over so many times in employment that I refuse to work for anybody. Charred, if you write that book, I'll be a contributor, as the breakdown in integrity and mutually beneficial sitation in the workplace is astounding. These places do not want talent, they want a bhit to exploit. Because of this, I have always treated my employees in the past with the utmost respect, and guess what, performance is better and far more profitable. I treat my suppliers and contract workers with utmost respect, and I refuse to underpay. Though I don't overpay, either.

I have though about this deeply for many years. I believe letting sociopaths at the top indicates a breakdown of checks and balances in an organization. Quality control. I believe it is indicative of decline, nonfunctional, and collapse. And guess what, since it is everywhere, it is indicative of slow motion collapses of commercial, financial, governmental entities. Sociopaths are just not profitable in the real world. A functioning organization is very careful to have a carefully crafted rewards and punishment system. It should be very clear that A, B, and C tasks need to get done In order to get promoted, etc.

Sociopaths confuse things. They make incentive unclear, so it incentivizes kowtowing to the narcissists ego, and not really doing profitable things. You have an environment bun by these losers, and you have a very unproductive fear based evasive avoidant environment.

I always, always swore that if I decided to have a big company, The only iron fist I would have is with narcissists, screening them at interview, and throwing them out.

[Ittookthislong]

yes i have that a lot. sometimes i feel like i need to break bad habits from so many heartbreaks. i get into patterns where i find the same pattern over and over and its starting to give me anxiety now that im oldler. i used to be more resilient.

this also saddens me as well. i feel like i lost a carefree, curious, adventurous side to a more wary and cynical one. i sort of hoped that this last relationship was the last straw, the growing up point in my life, but ive lost alot of my romanticism and so forth. hoping to get past the loss. i look forward to seeing more posts on this topic. nice to know im not alone.

funny, i dont speak to people about how i percieve others, because i start seeing red flags when i say it outloud i feel like a negative nancy narcissist.

but i also get the strong feeling that it is temporary.

[charred]

Wish I felt like it was temporary... . I feel like people are only looking to the next 90 days... and will ask someone to sacrifice for the good of the company just this one time... . constantly. Been watching American Greed... and it is amazing the scams that have gone on, of every type and by all kinds of people. When I said I wanted to write a book... I meant it, but I worked for what is considered one of the best most wonderful moral companies around... . and the things they did while tooting their PR horn was amazing... . and very BPD like. A corporation  is a made up thing... the courts have said it is a "person"... I think that is crap, but... if it is a person, many have PD's.

I have felt like a cynic for years... became optimistic while dating my pwBPD... . and wished I hadn't. Things in general are better than a few years ago, more jobs, been working... but before the big meltdown in 2008/2009 most the people I worked with were fairly optimistic, felt like they had a future in the companies they worked in, and were very loyal. Now, most are discouraged, have stories to contribute, are looking at early retirements and other work options, or have left to try greener pastures. Meet lots of people... . seems like its getting universal.

[nolisan]

I have done some healing with some Franciscan priests and their advice is that the only thing you can really trust is the Higher Power (ie God).

People are mortals and imperfect - even the best humans have flaws and quirks and can let you down.

My  BPD r/s has deepened my spirituality. My HP with never abandon me (the ex did about every two weeks). I see now that I was  looking for the r/s to fill a "Void" (my childhood need for love). Only a spiritual connection can truly fill that void an give me true unconditional love. Pets come a close second. People third.

[Lao Tzu]

Hi, my BPD Family!,

     As someone said in this thread, this is an ugly, temporary step in healing; don't let it get you stuck... One of the better posters on this site has a quote from Martin Luther King to the effect that he chose love over hate as it's really too much of a burden to hate everyone.  Don't miss this point, not trusting anyone is exactly the same as hating everyone.  Think about it. 

     You have to get past the hate.  For me, I travel a lot to 'third world' (it's a bad name -- we're all in the same world) countries and that lets me see life for people without the means or time to worry much about the stuff we discuss on this site.  It's pretty refreshing, as I have found the vast majority of people I meet to be very happy to share their measly meal when they don't have a clue whether they will have another one.  People really are, innately, good in my opinion and I am truly the biggest skeptic the world has ever known.  We get stuck in cultural roles that don't let us be what we really want (men don't cry, women are secondary to men, etc.), but we're social creatures, so culture is inevitable.

     If you don't trust people anymore, you are really splitting people black and white in the deepest possible way.  You are good and everyone else is bad. This is what the BPD person does, writ very large.  It's a natural reaction, but it's inaccurate and reflects an inability (hopefully temporary, as mentioned) to see people in shades of grey and different from each other.  Move past this; MLK had the right idea.

LT

[charred]

Probably natural to overreact after being burned repeatedly by various people. Trusting the wrong person (pwBPD) is what brought me to this cynical point. I work for a well known, big company... and have seen them get in trouble again and again... . and it comes from the top, one of the top officers is now in jail. If it were just my perception, I would want to be more trusting... there is a lot of greed and indifference to others ... . not just with pwBPD... but all around.

Maybe I just see what I expect to see.