what does one say?

[vivekananda]

Hi all,

Did you want an update? The cruise was amazing, 2 weeks on the seas stopping in beautiful NZ from time to time. Weird with all these old people on board... .  

On return a text was sent to dd32:           coffee on Wed or Fri? No reply.

3 days later another text sent:                 Did you get my text? are you ok? No reply.

today, 2 days later, phone message left:   I am worried, are you ok?

text sent to me this afternoon:                 Please stop worrying and harassing me 2 make contact. It is not productive in any way - i've already told you I have a lot going on right now and don't have the time/energy 2 deal with u - so please back off and b patient as u have no right to make demands of me

The last contact we had before this was her response to wait till dh and I return from cruise to meet for coffee... .  

So, I figure there is nothing to say or do. I'll just get on with my life.

In the meantime, I read Lundberg's book "I don't have to make everything all better" . It's only about validation and it's really very good. What stopped me in my tracks was the thought that if a relationship is not validating, then it must be invalidating. Now I understand better why dd thinks she was abused... .  that felt so sad to realise. And now I can't even validate. But at least I can accept the situation, I think.

cheers,

Vivek   

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

Hello darling,

 

So sorry dear, it does seem like a rejection response (finally  ) from your d.

As moms we have this innate need to know our beloved children are well.  It is a natural response to attempt to get that need met by reaching out to our children.  It seems so senseless for them to respond the way they do sometimes... .  a simple "I'm ok, just busy.  Thanks for checking" would do fine.

In the way of NVC... .  wanting other's to meet our needs when they are not emotionally available/capable, how might you respond?  When?

Might your d have interpreted your messages as being about you? (black/white thinking) Felt pressured to meet your needs?  Might it have gone differently this time if the only message you sent was. "back from the cruise.  Checking to see if you are ok, let me know when you can. Love mom"

 

 

lbj

[griz]

Good Morning:

Glad your trip went well... .  gosh would I love to do that some day.  I am sorry you got such a response from your DD.  I liked the way lbj had possed the text and I found it worked for me this morning.  My non BPD is going through a very rough time right now.  Long story, you don't want to hear.  As momma bear I feel a need to help her so I keep asking her if she is okay, how she is feeling and yesterday she snapped at me and said "If you ask to make me a cup of tea one more time I am going to explode NO I DO NOT WANT A CUP OF TEA" (tea being my go to when I don't know what the hell else to do)

This morning I was worrying again so I just sent a text that said "hope you are feeling okay, I am here if you need me".

Griz

[qcarolr]

I go along with a generic - thinking of you kind of text when DD gone with friends for a day or two. And then ONLY SEND ONE TEXT until she chooses to contact me. Dd interprets (or at least that is how she responds to me) any more contacts as harrassment.

The other extremely frustrating situation is when DD contacts me, and I call her back immediately and she does not answer. Or I text back and she claims she never got the text, or her phone was dead... .    neither of those make sense since she was JUST ON HER PHONE TO ME! This is usually followed by the harrassment text - even if I am trying to fulfill her previous request.

Gotta remind myself - she is in her emotions which are so not logical.

qcr  

[qcarolr]

In the meantime, I read Lundberg's book "I don't have to make everything all better" . It's only about validation and it's really very good. What stopped me in my tracks was the thought that if a relationship is not validating, then it must be invalidating. Now I understand better why dd thinks she was abused... .  that felt so sad to realise. And now I can't even validate. But at least I can accept the situation, I think.

Vivek  - the validation will come. keep practicing it with 'safe' people. I started with co-workers and my boss since I had less of an emotional investment in the times it did not work out so good. Then with dh and gd. Took a long time to get more consistent with DD. Also, I have to be meeting my own needs for validation to work with DD. It is so unconscious much of the time when I am holding onto a expectation that DD, or others in my life, are supposed to be meeting my needs. I know I am in this invisible place when I get really whiny and want to move out!

qcr  

[pessim-optimist]

Hi Vivek    

Welcome back again!

That must be so disappointing, when your dd responds in this way. Sending you a   

Really liked lbj's suggestion! 

On the other hand, I have an observation/question for you:

I remember, that you had a hard time getting hold of your dd before the cruise, and then you found out she had some personal troubles, and so you came to the conclusion that her rejection of you wasn't about you but about her and what she was going through.

Might it be that she's still dealing with the same thing or something new and feels ashamed or doesn't feel strong enough to meet for coffee and pretend that her life is ok? (I remember that our usd32 would stay away from certain family members whom she felt like she needed to impress, and all the while she was calling my husband several times a day an hour at a time to help her figure out life. Not that she would listen to his advice   , now we know why... .  

So, just wanted to encourage you to try to see the situation from different angles... .     

[jellibeans]

well that is a hard one to take but I think if you step back and wait for her to come to you then you will get the opportunity to get it right... .  (if that is even possible) try not to take it personally... .  your d is probably going through something and her focus is there... .  I really think you had a lot of good advise... .  sorry I don't really have much to add... .  I wanted to welcome you back from your trip... .  imagine that trip when things are bad and use it to up lift you... .  

or I am really with griz... .  make I cup of tea! Sorry but that statement is so me... .  I have been running after my daughter offering tea for weeks since she has been sick... .  made me laugh... .  I guess it is good to find some humor in things... .  glad you are back... .  take some time and put together an album of your trip and you can use that when you are down... .  

[vivekananda]

Thanks for all your wise words and welcomes back.

Yep, I think she has fallen back into bad ways after the loss of another close relationship. I think she doesn't want to face me because she wouldn't be able to withhold herself and she doesn't want me to know anything about her life. She has a history of being extrmely secretive with dh and me, and on the other hand she expects that I know everything (she used to talk to me in her head I think and tell me stuff in her head and this then became a reality for her - she was creating a reality and identity for herself I think - and of course I knew nothing about what was said in her head and she told us nothing). I think she feels that if I know about her, that would mean I would be controlling her or something. Prior to this current situation she seemed to be getting herself together and I suspect she has fallen into bad old habits. So for me to see this would mean that I would see she was 'failing again'. She fails to meet her expectatins of herself and 'transfers/projects' that onto me and says it's what I expect her to do or be like etc. when that is so not true.

So, lbj I am not sure that I should respond at all. Definitely not for the moment. And I think if I waited for her to contact us though, we would be waiting till hell freezes over. If I had sent her a 'hi, I'm back... .  ' type message, there would have been no difference. The reason for being specific with times and dates is because any other way might cause her to feel frustrated with equivocation and indecision. We had left it with her text asking when we would be back and my response with the date ... .  I waited 3 days when we returned, to text her. The right time to contact her would be when she was not dysregulated, but I have no way of knowing when that could be. At 32 her behaviours are firmly entrenched.

The last time we saw her was at Xmas, prior to that we spoke for an hour in Dec. Last year, I spoke with her twice I think. Maybe 3 times.

So, if I don't contact her, then she will just forget about us and get on with whatever she wants. Then when it comes time for some reason to be in touch again (a funeral, hospitalisation, whatever), she will feel guilt and shame and not want to.

I think if she made it back to her psych, she would be able to get back on track. But again, I suspect she will feel she has 'failed' in some way and avoid that. Also, she will feel the 'threat' of BPD hanging over her head, I think. To backtrack, she surmises that BPD is what I think is wrong with her, but she believes it is PTSD. She would feel that to have BPD would be a really bad thing I think. So, she might want to avoid the psych in case he suggests it isn't PTSD... .  who knows I am only surmising.

So, in the meantime, I am practising validation (not that well though) - thnx qcr   and mindfulness and all that stuff. I am getting on with my life and not letting it drag me down. It is just like there is a void about me all the time though. To have a daughter and not have one... .  there are no recipes for this, I think.

If it were a final - never again - then that is something that can be accepted. But to be always 'on call' for when she might want to re kindle a relationship, is hard. But that's BPD eh?

Oh yeah, she often doesn't get the text, or didn't get the message when I called. She has a history of not responding. Phone is out of battery, broken, not working - whatever.

All you who have younger kids, work hard at changing yourself eh? Don't wait till it is so late like me.

Vivek    

[twojaybirds]

OMGosh  Vive, my dd could have texted that - in fact I think she has 

I am so glad your trip turned out awesome.   I am going to read  "cant mak... .  "    At this juncture I think I need to step into validating on  new level.  What I've been using has worked but I want to stir it up before it goes flat.

[vivekananda]

Hi 2Jbirds!

I reckon reading something new that takes our thinking further, ever now and then, can only do us good. It's our personal journey eh?

Vivek    

ps good luck with your dd 

[lbjnltx]

Thanks for all your wise words and welcomes back.

Yep, I think she has fallen back into bad ways after the loss of another close relationship. I think she doesn't want to face me because she wouldn't be able to withhold herself and she doesn't want me to know anything about her life. She has a history of being extrmely secretive with dh and me, and on the other hand she expects that I know everything (she used to talk to me in her head I think and tell me stuff in her head and this then became a reality for her - she was creating a reality and identity for herself I think - and of course I knew nothing about what was said in her head and she told us nothing). I think she feels that if I know about her, that would mean I would be controlling her or something. Prior to this current situation she seemed to be getting herself together and I suspect she has fallen into bad old habits. So for me to see this would mean that I would see she was 'failing again'. She fails to meet her expectatins of herself and 'transfers/projects' that onto me and says it's what I expect her to do or be like etc. when that is so not true.

So, lbj I am not sure that I should respond at all. Definitely not for the moment. And I think if I waited for her to contact us though, we would be waiting till hell freezes over. If I had sent her a 'hi, I'm back... .  ' type message, there would have been no difference. The reason for being specific with times and dates is because any other way might cause her to feel frustrated with equivocation and indecision. We had left it with her text asking when we would be back and my response with the date ... .  I waited 3 days when we returned, to text her. The right time to contact her would be when she was not dysregulated, but I have no way of knowing when that could be. At 32 her behaviours are firmly entrenched.

The last time we saw her was at Xmas, prior to that we spoke for an hour in Dec. Last year, I spoke with her twice I think. Maybe 3 times.

So, if I don't contact her, then she will just forget about us and get on with whatever she wants. Then when it comes time for some reason to be in touch again (a funeral, hospitalisation, whatever), she will feel guilt and shame and not want to.

I think if she made it back to her psych, she would be able to get back on track. But again, I suspect she will feel she has 'failed' in some way and avoid that. Also, she will feel the 'threat' of BPD hanging over her head, I think. To backtrack, she surmises that BPD is what I think is wrong with her, but she believes it is PTSD. She would feel that to have BPD would be a really bad thing I think. So, she might want to avoid the psych in case he suggests it isn't PTSD... .  who knows I am only surmising.

So, in the meantime, I am practising validation (not that well though) - thnx qcr   and mindfulness and all that stuff. I am getting on with my life and not letting it drag me down. It is just like there is a void about me all the time though. To have a daughter and not have one... .  there are no recipes for this, I think.

If it were a final - never again - then that is something that can be accepted. But to be always 'on call' for when she might want to re kindle a relationship, is hard. But that's BPD eh?

Oh yeah, she often doesn't get the text, or didn't get the message when I called. She has a history of not responding. Phone is out of battery, broken, not working - whatever.

All you who have younger kids, work hard at changing yourself eh? Don't wait till it is so late like me.

Vivek    

Dear Vivek ,

Sometimes darling, we just have to let them own their own feelings.  From the above response it seems like a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation regarding contact.  All the energy you spend on speculation doesn't seem to get you any closer to your d or peace for yourself.  Her responses are hers and not a reflection on you or what you text to her.  You can't control how, when, if she responds, you can control how you receive her responses and what affect you allow them to have on you.

You have the skills to deal with these disappointments and posture yourself for the next contact.

We believe in you and your skills.

 

lbjnltx

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[sunshineplease]

I stand by my earlier wish to have a little lbjnltx live in my head. :-)

Vivek , I was also hit by that bit in the Lundbergs' book about not being validated feeling like abuse. (Gulp. Pat self on back; forgive self. I didn't know.) Like you, I'm not in a place where I can validate my daughter right now (she's in RTC and in "no contact" mode). So I validate others as much as I can, both for the practice and in her honor.

Your trip sounds amazing.

[pessim-optimist]

I haven't read Lundberg yet, I'm in the process of getting it. Can't wait to read it.

Maybe I will stand corrected, but might I speculate ahead of time?

Had a thought about the "if a relationship is not validating, it must be invalidating"... .  

It sounds perfectly logical - if we feel accepted and understood by someone, we feel good being with them. If we feel opposed or misunderstood, we feel disconnected at the very least.

But are you guys maybe beating yourselves up a bit, just because you don't seem to be living up to your pwBPD's expectations? I think anything OTHER than that may under some circumstances FEEL to them as invalidating, even if we are in fact validating. But that would not be our responsibility, would it?

So why would it be our responsibility to be "validating" at all times?

Just my 0.02

[Sabu]

Hey guys, reading the comments about our kids with BPD and the texting & missed calls that seem to run rampant with them reminded me of a funny thing that happened to me. Three years ago my ddxBPD was pregnant with my 4th grandchild & had no cell phone.  We met for dinner one night & when we left the restaurant I drove directly home she had been a couple minutes behind me. Long story short she had a flat tire, was 8 months pregnant & was at the mercy of kind strangers that stopped & helped her on the side of the road. I gave her my cell with the intentions of getting it back after she delivered. A year later when I finally ask for my phone back after some major drama, I discovered why she never received my calls or text... .  she had me, dh's cell & work phone, the house phone, & my friend blocked! Shaking my head but I had to laugh after saying, "the nerve of her."  So glad I am to the point to where something like that is amusing to me... .    most of the time.

Grateful for you guys.  

[vivekananda]

ain't that just so! Good you can laugh about it now, but probably hard to do so at the time eh?

I don't think we are blocked, just ignored. She said once she gets 70 texts a day... .  Well with 700+ f'book friends, that may be so, but I find it a bit of a swallow. She is just secretive and doesn't want me to see her face. She doesn't want to lose her cool with me in person.

When I showed her comment to dh, his response was 'yeah, too busy to get out of bed.' It was said wryly and in good humour, not nastily, but matter of fact. And I found it hard to disagree with him.

Poor girl.

Vivek    

[sunshineplease]

pessim-optimist, I agree constant validation was not our responsibility. We didn't know they were sick, or what we might do to help! I also agree that I feel/felt loved when validated and not so loved when not validated. From that perspective, I don't think my daughter had an expectation of validation, only that I might have been a better parent to her (given her needs) if I'd understood the concept. At this point, I see validation as a way to be loving (to anyone!).

[lbjnltx]

pessim-optimist, I agree constant validation was not our responsibility. We didn't know they were sick, or what we might do to help! I also agree that I feel/felt loved when validated and not so loved when not validated. From that perspective, I don't think my daughter had an expectation of validation, only that I might have been a better parent to her (given her needs) if I'd understood the concept. At this point, I see validation as a way to be loving (to anyone!).

[qcarolr]

I gave her my cell with the intentions of getting it back after she delivered. A year later when I finally ask for my phone back after some major drama, I discovered why she never received my calls or text... .  she had me, dh's cell & work phone, the house phone, & my friend blocked! Shaking my head but I had to laugh after saying, "the nerve of her."  So glad I am to the point to where something like that is amusing to me... .    most of the time.

Such a quirk - DD angry that I did not reply to her, yet she says "I have my phone on silent so I don't have to hear it going off all the time" or "how do you expect me to find you text with all the others I get".

My rational mind thinks - if you text me expecting a response, then why are you not a least watching for  the light to turn on your phone.  OOPS - so easy to forget that DD definition of 'rational' is not the same as mine.

So I practice letting go of my own anger and disappointment and let her own her feelings without feeling the need to fix them for her.

qcr  

[vivekananda]

It was while reading Lundberg that I had another 'epiphany'... .  If I wasn't validating in my communications with my dd that means then I was invalidating. It is one or the other. And that is it in a nutshell.

That was when I recognised that my dd's claims of a life of abuse, could be appreciated. Do not misunderstand me though. I do not feel I was abusive at all. It was just that my validation was ineffective in the face of her BPD. As a young mum, working dealing with the stresses of my life and the personal issues of my own (coming from a BPD family), and managing without much support, I was struggling to keep my own head above water (and not always successful either). If my dd didn't have PD she would be a wonderful balanced young woman, with all the values her dad and I tried to instil.

That's why I loved Rosenberg's explanation - that invalidation is embedded in our politico/economic/cultural world of hierarchy (a crude interpretation of what he said). Basically that our default communication method has become invalidating in our society and this is reinforced by the structures of our society. Loud, aggressive put downs are a matter of course, finding weak spots and pressing buttons is the norm in our world and often used for humour in our popular culture. Interrupting, talking over happens daily to us all. 

So, I have come full circle. When I first came here I was incensed that I should have to change when she was the one with the problem. I wanted to 'make' her get treatment and was so frustrated when I couldn't make her do anything. So, how invalidating is that eh? Now I am working hard to make validation my default position in all situations. and boy oh boy do I have a way to go. Because validation of itself is not enough. To make it a default response, I have to consistently embrace those three concepts behind mindfulness: being open to the universe; detachment or letting go of ego; radical acceptance (as qcr points out).

I can tell you all that the benefits to me personally have been worth the effort. I am much happier, much calmer, and I am getting a lot of positive feedback. But sadly my dd isn't with me. Imagine how it would be though if I hadn't begun to change?

Isn't it sad that we have learn about how to speak kindly with love and empathy now... .  if I had understood earlier... .  

oh and just quickly pessi-o, I began to appreciate, through the experience of others here, that using validating language helps our kids with BPD build the neural pathways between their amydala and their prefrontal cortex by naming the emotions they are feeling and causing them to reflect on that. We are giving them the language to work with their feelings and teaching them to be mindful when we listen with empathy. They may not hear us as validating unless we consistently and carefully practise it, but it works on many levels, I believe.

So no 'beating me up', just an acceptance of what I didn't know before. I wasn't a bad mum by any measure. That's why people who know me are shocked by dd's accusations.

[sunshineplease]

I enjoyed that explanation, Vivek . I love clarity!

[vivekananda]

why thank you mam 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

So, I have come full circle. When I first came here I was incensed that I should have to change when she was the one with the problem. I wanted to 'make' her get treatment and was so frustrated when I couldn't make her do anything. So, how invalidating is that eh? Now I am working hard to make validation my default position in all situations. and boy oh boy do I have a way to go. Because validation of itself is not enough. To make it a default response, I have to consistently embrace those three concepts behind mindfulness: being open to the universe; detachment or letting go of ego; radical acceptance (as qcr points out).

I can tell you all that the benefits to me personally have been worth the effort. I am much happier, much calmer, and I am getting a lot of positive feedback. But sadly my dd isn't with me. Imagine how it would be though if I hadn't begun to change?

ME TOO.

When I arrived in 2009 it was solely about me, and how it was my 'responsibilty' to directly help DD 'help herself'. That was the hardest of my goals to figure out. The goal was worthwhile, just not my methods of detachment with anger and resentment coupled with telling her what to do and how to do it.

It took a long time to figure out that the best way to help her help herself was modeling the ways to balance as Vivek  has listed here. And oh it is hard to overcome these old patterns to create new patterns - that do get into the brain system with 1000 repetitions.  And I can only model loving-kindness as the vessel for all the other skills when I can be kind to myself first. Without sincerity, all the validating words and questions have only a negative impact. Our BPDkids are so so sensitive to our non-verbal language - even when they have no awareness.

Reflection is such a key to my DD's improvement - this also comes about gradually with  1000's of repetitions. So, do not give up. Know you get another chance - there is always hope. And the "i am sorry if I hurt your feelings when I said "... .  " opens so many doors with DD. That one is hard to get to as well with sincerity.

qcr  

[pessim-optimist]

  Everyone,

Once again, I appreciate your guys' comments 

There's always so much to learn and hearing things from other people's perspective is such a fast way to do that!

... .  We didn't know they were sick, or what we might do to help! I also agree that I feel/felt loved when validated and not so loved when not validated. From that perspective, I don't think my daughter had an expectation of validation, only that I might have been a better parent to her (given her needs) if I'd understood the concept. At this point, I see validation as a way to be loving (to anyone!).

... .  I began to appreciate, through the experience of others here, that using validating language helps our kids with BPD build the neural pathways between their amydala and their prefrontal cortex by naming the emotions they are feeling and causing them to reflect on that. We are giving them the language to work with their feelings and teaching them to be mindful when we listen with empathy. They may not hear us as validating unless we consistently and carefully practise it, but it works on many levels, I believe... .  

... .  It took a long time to figure out that the best way to help her help herself was modeling the ways to balance as Vivek  has listed here. And oh it is hard to overcome these old patterns to create new patterns - that do get into the brain system with 1000 repetitions.

... .  Reflection is such a key to my DD's improvement - this also comes about gradually with  1000's of repetitions. So, do not give up. Know you get another chance - there is always hope. And the "i am sorry if I hurt your feelings when I said "... .  " opens so many doors with DD. That one is hard to get to as well with sincerity... .  

In the last month, I have thought so many times about the verse: "Be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind." It has taken on a totally new and powerful meaning for me! (the neural pathways, the amygdala, 1000 repetitions etc. etc.)

Yes! We can definitely be transformed and become new people, and so can our loved ones if or when they decide to work hard... .  

[qcarolr]

Yes! We can definitely be transformed and become new people, and so can our loved ones if or when they decide to work hard... .  

Even as we work hard, and keep a connection open, they can begin the transformation. It is such a surprise when this happens - baby steps.

qcr

[pessim-optimist]

I agree.

Any time I hear "baby steps" I'm thinking "What about Bob" on target AND funny for me  .

[Sabu]

Posted by: Vivek ananda

Insert Quote

It was while reading Lundberg that I had another 'epiphany'... .  If I wasn't validating in my communications with my dd that means then I was invalidating. It is one or the other. And that is it in a nutshell.

Thanks Vive,  I don't see how I could have forgotten such an important quote but I did!  This has really helped me more than anything I have read lately.  I love nutshell synopsis, I have too, I am getting older. 

[vivekananda]

yeah older, and now wiser - just wish I could remember where I put my keys 

Now, what do you think? Should I text dd back and say 'sorry, I didn't mean to upset you' or would that be harassment?

At the moment I am thinking that I should wait for a bit. Dh and I are off again tomorrow till Mar 13 (a folk festival in the countryside), but I am thinking, knowing how summer is the time she attends her 'rave' festivals, perhaps I should wait till either she touches base, or something else happens to necessitate contact... .  

yes she got the music festival bug from us... .  yes dh has recently retired and is trying to fit in a lifetime of travel into a year I think. I am learning to put the foot down. There is another festival at Easter time and a return trip to NZ after that... .  I'll be exhausted with all this relaxing! seriously I miss you all so much when I can't get to the internet.

cheers,

Vivek    

[Thursday]

Vivek ,

Now, what do you think? Should I text dd back and say 'sorry, I didn't mean to upset you' or would that be harassment?

Something I've learned from Al-anon people,

Give it three days.

I wonder if your daughter might feel like you are stirring the pot if you text back, didn't mean to upset you? With those words you are telling her,

"You are upset"

and chances are she will get fired up over you telling her this thing that only she can own or not own. I find with my BPDSD21, she will do A LOT to deny anything someone else says to her about her feelings.

My BPDSD21 is secretive, like your daughter. She is pulled away. She has put this distance between herself and her Dad and me because she isn't doing the right thing and she has to look at it when she communicates with us. It's so much easier for her to pretend all is well in her world when she is surrounded by people who don't know "the truth". I can see how uncomfortable it is for her to sit with us and know she isn't doing the right thing.

We don't say anything about her circumstances, we validate her but still she stays away from our company. Need of money supercedes her inner turmoil though, and when she comes for money I can certainly percieve the wall she puts up around her... .  constant inane chatter, goofiness, hard language, the tough persona, flipped on a dime to sweet, needy, babytalking SD.

And that is all the tough work she needs to do in therapy, which she is currently not doing.

It sounds like the same dynamic at play between your daughter and yourself and your DH.

Yes, try it lbj style next time.

You have to trust that there will be more opportunities. I know my SD will not be able to sustain her distance forever. Eventually, she will find her way more back into this family's fold... .  and it won't just be lip service (I say this because she keeps taking stabs at paying "getting closer to Thursday" lip service but she doesn't follow through.  )

Of course, Vivek , she is much younger than your DD and all of the left turns don't add up to such a distance as they might if she were older. I can understand how worried you are that you are maybe losing so much ground that you can never get it back. Oh, how hard that must be.   

You can always change your mind in three days but three days keeps the impulses at bay when we have to "do something, anything... .  " when the pain of this becomes unbearable.

Acceptance does ease the pain... .  lessens it. (lbj recently said, lessens=lessons. Woop!)

Emotional pain can make it hard not to act impulsively. I actually NEED three days to completely pull up my big girl panties, such a struggle. Yikes.

You know, this isn't the way "it's supposed to be" and it truly "is what it is" and that is pretty craptacular in the long run so remember to treat yourself like you should be treated, however that looks. Today I am going to smile at myself in the mirror instead of attacking my bad hair cut.

Sorry it is so sucky so often.

       

and best wishes.

Thursday

[vivekananda]

Thanks Thurs. Beautifully said. I don't think I'll do anything... .  I don't see the point.

I do hope you can maintain contact with your girl.

Thanks for your support,

viv   

[jellibeans]

Thank you for posting thursday... .  I really got alot out of what you had to say... .  

Vivek  I hope you are alright... .