A Great Big Circle

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi All,

I took a few weeks to just think-no posts, little reading, time off to think about everything but BPD and ex.  I felt like my life was consumed by this illness and with all my new information in my head, it had to sink in.  Since our breakup, I've not done much, haven't met with friends, done anything fun, and concentrated on work.  I was fearful of meeting him somewhere-running into him, and in the back of my mind, I knew if he saw me out with a girlfriend eating pizza, he'd accuse me of never caring and all that baloney, and that made me feel bad.  I really did try to make our relationship work, and I really did love him.

So, Valentine's Day.  He calls me at work and says he was driving and "realized" he was two minutes from my work and did I want to go to lunch.  This sounds so strange to me-the realization that he was at my work but hadn't driven there purposely.  He's done that before, dialed my phone or texted me but "didn't".   Maybe that's some kind of dissociation. 

So we go to get a sandwich and have an awkward conversation about family and whatever.  I hated the last few months of discomfort and unspoken emotion between us so it felt wierdly comforting to me to at least be speaking.  (I was keenly aware of how it was soothing my hurt, immediately, like cold water on a burn).  This lunch led to us another day of hanging out and of course, we had a good time.  I knew that we were able to have this good time because we had not yet touched on anything interpersonal, we were just two people hanging out.  This person I was seeing was the guy he was at work and in other shallow casual relationships-funny, intelligent, light.  (I'd seen this guy when we were out with friends and I'd even said to him afterwards, "Wow, you were so different-who was that guy?"  In the fantasyland in my head I was hoping I had misread all the other signs and made a mistake with my "diagnosis", two years worth of craziness and I'm actually doubting myself... .  geeez.  If he said anything at all that was demeaning or blaming I validated him and it actually worked.  I saw it work.  I bit my tongue and did not defend myself but rather apologized for hurting him.  (Which I admit was pretty annoying;  I do see my faults and I know I've hurt him, but hearing him not accept any responsibility and blame me for everything... .  bless you all who can do this repeatedly.)

But anyway, we had a good day and spent another day together watching a movie at my house.  Now my head is getting all messed up, my thinking is going backwards, I'm forgetting about reality, we're enjoying each others company.  I'm starting to think about maybe this could work.  My little therapist on my shoulder kept saying, "Just, WAIT!" 

So a few days pass and now we're texting, laughing, calling and BAM!  Two nights ago, I get a text literally unprovoked and out of the blue that relays he's not competing with me anymore, that women are subservient to men, (this has NEVER come up in "real" discussion.  He's pretty liberal and open minded, but it always shows up when he's in a BPD snit.  Neglectful, abusive mother-his words, not mine) he's not putting up with my combative attitude any longer (which really means asking him questions), that his word is "IT" from now on, he's learned over and over that women need to be put in their place, he's lonely, deserves love, and is now back to anxiously awaiting for me to disappear, break his heart again and he's not doing this anymore!  (In our multiple breakups, I stopped contacting him.  That's generally what people do when they breakup-stop being together.)  I suffered and tended my broken heart by myself and it sucked, then we recycled, and he relentlessly berated me for not caring about him and disappearing during those times (his abandonment).   If I said, "but we were broken up, you were out with other women", he'd scream at me that I was trying to blame him for something I did, it was chaotic arguing.  I now stared at this text-this is the best part-I just sighed and thought, "he's dysregulated" and gently set the phone down.  I didn't cry, get upset, feel defeated, none of my previous pain and desperation came up, and I did not respond, having been educated that a response was pointless.  That was such a relief that I didn't feel the defensive urge to respond.  I felt bad for him and wondered what had happened, where his brain had taken him in the last few days, but I rememered reading that my presence alone in his life now caused this, and "I" am his trigger, regardless of what I do or say. 

We spoke last night and his voice was seething with anger, his accusations were ugly and demeaning, anything I asked he screamed at me for trying to control the conversation, he cursed me and brought up things from years ago, said he deserved so much more than I could give, asked me, Don't you know who I am?  Women line up to be with me! (poor sense of self) he told me he'd never had a relationship so unproductive before (I'd love to know how his previous relationships were, I'd pay money to talk to his ex's) he hung up on me twice and called me back, and I handled it all calmly and when I could I tried to validate him, but only in the sense that I wanted out of this with some peace in my heart.  In the final minutes of our conversation I asked him, "Can we just admit we love each other and go on our separate journeys knowing we cannot get along?  I think it's time we put an end to this and not hate each other but just accept we did not work."  He said, "I can't give you an answer right now." 

So, unless I let go and just flat refuse to do this again to myself, we can probably go round and round until the end of time.  I read the other day that this will never change, only my life will slowly be more and more miserable.  (it was much more eloquent than that, sorry!)  This illness is a chameleon.  It distorts everything and unless you are strong, realistic, incredibly grounded and knowledgeably armed, you can easily go down with the ship.  It's miserable turning your back on an ill person you love.  It's unnatural, there is so much guilt; I know what's wrong but I'm withholding help.  It feels smug.  Incredible documentaries are made from this theme-there was a mountain climber that abandoned his partner in the ice to save himself, it was awful.  When my ex says he deserves love, I see it in the BPD context, he does deserve it but he can't get it, no matter how I try.  When he's crying in pain from inner demons, when he's gentle and introspective and unknowingly begging for help, when he sincerely asks me, "what's wrong with me?",  I want so badly to reach out to him, hold him and tell him what I know.  It's the worst thing I've ever dealt with, made even more terrible knowing that I'm just a casualty, I'm not even the poor soul suffering with the affliction.  My pain is nothing compared to his.     

However, I am afllicted with something-I've realized a lot of this is about me, my weaknesses and feelings about myself.  His infatuation with me in the beginning was welcome; I felt appreciated and loved, I still want that.  I wanted to be loved like most people and I saw what I wanted to see, didn't stand up for myself when the discord began, and was hanging on to the good guy that I now know wasn't really there.  I see evidence that I am not healthy emotionally and need help understanding this. 

love, pink

[pinkpeony]

Hi All,

I took a few weeks to just think-no posts, little reading, time off to think about everything but BPD and ex.  I felt like my life was consumed by this illness and with all my new information in my head, it had to sink in.  Since our breakup, I've not done much, haven't met with friends, done anything fun, and concentrated on work.  I was fearful of meeting him somewhere-running into him, and in the back of my mind, I knew if he saw me out with a girlfriend eating pizza, he'd accuse me of never caring and all that baloney, and that made me feel bad.  I really did try to make our relationship work, and I really did love him.

So, Valentine's Day.  He calls me at work and says he was driving and "realized" he was two minutes from my work and did I want to go to lunch.  This sounds so strange to me-the realization that he was at my work but hadn't driven there purposely.  He's done that before, dialed my phone or texted me but "didn't".   Maybe that's some kind of dissociation. 

So we go to get a sandwich and have an awkward conversation about family and whatever.  I hated the last few months of discomfort and unspoken emotion between us so it felt wierdly comforting to me to at least be speaking.  (I was keenly aware of how it was soothing my hurt, immediately, like cold water on a burn).  This lunch led to us another day of hanging out and of course, we had a good time.  I knew that we were able to have this good time because we had not yet touched on anything interpersonal, we were just two people hanging out.  This person I was seeing was the guy he was at work and in other shallow casual relationships-funny, intelligent, light.  (I'd seen this guy when we were out with friends and I'd even said to him afterwards, "Wow, you were so different-who was that guy?"  In the fantasyland in my head I was hoping I had misread all the other signs and made a mistake with my "diagnosis", two years worth of craziness and I'm actually doubting myself... .  geeez.  If he said anything at all that was demeaning or blaming I validated him and it actually worked.  I saw it work.  I bit my tongue and did not defend myself but rather apologized for hurting him.  (Which I admit was pretty annoying;  I do see my faults and I know I've hurt him, but hearing him not accept any responsibility and blame me for everything... .  bless you all who can do this repeatedly.)

But anyway, we had a good day and spent another day together watching a movie at my house.  Now my head is getting all messed up, my thinking is going backwards, I'm forgetting about reality, we're enjoying each others company.  I'm starting to think about maybe this could work.  My little therapist on my shoulder kept saying, "Just, WAIT!" 

So a few days pass and now we're texting, laughing, calling and BAM!  Two nights ago, I get a text literally unprovoked and out of the blue that relays he's not competing with me anymore, that women are subservient to men, (this has NEVER come up in "real" discussion.  He's pretty liberal and open minded, but it always shows up when he's in a BPD snit.  Neglectful, abusive mother-his words, not mine) he's not putting up with my combative attitude any longer (which really means asking him questions), that his word is "IT" from now on, he's learned over and over that women need to be put in their place, he's lonely, deserves love, and is now back to anxiously awaiting for me to disappear, break his heart again and he's not doing this anymore!  (In our multiple breakups, I stopped contacting him.  That's generally what people do when they breakup-stop being together.)  I suffered and tended my broken heart by myself and it sucked, then we recycled, and he relentlessly berated me for not caring about him and disappearing during those times (his abandonment).   If I said, "but we were broken up, you were out with other women", he'd scream at me that I was trying to blame him for something I did, it was chaotic arguing.  I now stared at this text-this is the best part-I just sighed and thought, "he's dysregulated" and gently set the phone down.  I didn't cry, get upset, feel defeated, none of my previous pain and desperation came up, and I did not respond, having been educated that a response was pointless.  That was such a relief that I didn't feel the defensive urge to respond.  I felt bad for him and wondered what had happened, where his brain had taken him in the last few days, but I rememered reading that my presence alone in his life now caused this, and "I" am his trigger, regardless of what I do or say. 

We spoke last night and his voice was seething with anger, his accusations were ugly and demeaning, anything I asked he screamed at me for trying to control the conversation, he cursed me and brought up things from years ago, said he deserved so much more than I could give, asked me, Don't you know who I am?  Women line up to be with me! (poor sense of self) he told me he'd never had a relationship so unproductive before (I'd love to know how his previous relationships were, I'd pay money to talk to his ex's) he hung up on me twice and called me back, and I handled it all calmly and when I could I tried to validate him, but only in the sense that I wanted out of this with some peace in my heart.  In the final minutes of our conversation I asked him, "Can we just admit we love each other and go on our separate journeys knowing we cannot get along?  I think it's time we put an end to this and not hate each other but just accept we did not work."  He said, "I can't give you an answer right now." 

So, unless I let go and just flat refuse to do this again to myself, we can probably go round and round until the end of time.  I read the other day that this will never change, only my life will slowly be more and more miserable.  (it was much more eloquent than that, sorry!)  This illness is a chameleon.  It distorts everything and unless you are strong, realistic, incredibly grounded and knowledgeably armed, you can easily go down with the ship.  It's miserable turning your back on an ill person you love.  It's unnatural, there is so much guilt; I know what's wrong but I'm withholding help.  It feels smug.  Incredible documentaries are made from this theme-there was a mountain climber that abandoned his partner in the ice to save himself, it was awful.  When my ex says he deserves love, I see it in the BPD context, he does deserve it but he can't get it, no matter how I try.  When he's crying in pain from inner demons, when he's gentle and introspective and unknowingly begging for help, when he sincerely asks me, "what's wrong with me?",  I want so badly to reach out to him, hold him and tell him what I know.  It's the worst thing I've ever dealt with, made even more terrible knowing that I'm just a casualty, I'm not even the poor soul suffering with the affliction.  My pain is nothing compared to his.     

However, I am afllicted with something-I've realized a lot of this is about me, my weaknesses and feelings about myself.  His infatuation with me in the beginning was welcome; I felt appreciated and loved, I still want that.  I wanted to be loved like most people and I saw what I wanted to see, didn't stand up for myself when the discord began, and was hanging on to the good guy that I now know wasn't really there.  I see evidence that I am not healthy emotionally and need help understanding this. 

love, pink

[almost789]

I so relate to every word of your story. It's a debilitating horrible disease, disorder, whatever it is, its the most horrible thing I have ever experienced in my life. And to know they have to go through it with each and every person they make a connection with is heartwrenching. Reality really hits when you realize it's you. You are the one that makes them sick. And by doing nothing, there is no way to get around the trigger. Unless, they don't care. Then you won't be the trigger. Imagine going through life and the only way you can survive without complete dysregulation and torture is to be around people you don't care about. While at the same time wanting so deparately to be with someone you love.

[blecker]

You are the one that makes them sick.

I was touched by your post SummerT321.

You seem to be deeply compassionate to the agony suffered by a person with BPD. It is heartbreaking to live such a life.

But I don't think we are the ones that make them sick. I think we are the ones that keep them sick.

Imagine a world where absolutely no mind altering drugs existed. It happened overnight. The drugs just vanished. What would all the drugs addicts do? Find a way to live without drugs I imagine.

Now if all the loving enablers all of a sudden decided that "No" was the answer to every question poised by someone asking for something they should be getting themselves, what would happen? They would find a way to get it themselves I would imagine.

And if all the deniers suddenly saw the Truth for what it was and not some imagined wish, or hopefull alternative, what would happen to all those lies?

I imagine we would have to find a way to live with and act upon the Truth.

[almost789]

I am deeply compassionate for their agony, Beckler. I am in agony myself. This post brought tears to my eyes once again as this morning I was feeling quite emotionally disconnected to my pwBPD, until I read this, then I wanted to text my pwBPD and tell him I love him. But I didn't. I won't, because he doesn't like that anymore. I'm aware I didn't make him sick. But I did cause dysregulation, our relationship alone cause a huge upheaval in his life and that was before he split me. It was purely love which caused it. But, you have me wrong. I am not an enabler. In fact I have already told him NO. He was projecting on me several weeks ago and I told him NO, YOU take responsibility for YOU or you can never get better. Since then he has asked for things from me and I have ignored it. I am hoping for my absense to cause him to get help. Sad to say though I think he probably will just run to some woman who will give him what he wants. He's kind of like Pink here says, her's " do you know who I am women line up for me!' He's like that when he feels slighted. He doesn't say it but I can almost read it in his face when he doesn't get what he wants he just runs off like a brat with the attitude I'll get it somewhere else! He's good looking so it's probably easy for him which is another reason they won't get help.

[blecker]

But, you have me wrong. I am not an enabler. In fact I have already told him NO.

I am sorry SummerT321. My post was not pointed at you personally, mearly your point.

I know that I enabeled her to to remain "stuck" by allowing her to manipulate me. I know that I was in denial for the vast portion of our relationship. I know that every time we played make-up I allowed her and my sickness to continue. By playing the savior I was removing an apporunity from her to find help.

Again, I am sorry if I seemed pointed.

[almost789]

No worries blecker!  Your right. I know even though I broke up with him, I've probably enabled him some by continuing contact, taking blame at times, and playing along with his games. I was trying to get close enough to him to try and give him info. Which I did over many months time. But , Im pulling away from that now. And yes, he needs to get help on his own. Take care

[PrettyPlease]

Hi pinkpeony,

What an eloquent description, thank you. Yes, yes, it's so tragic.

And FWIW, my first reaction was that you seem to be reacting wisely and understanding what you need to understand.

But at the end you wrote:

However, I am aflicted with something—I've realized a lot of this is about me, my weaknesses and feelings about myself. ... .  [snip]... .    I see evidence that I am not healthy emotionally and need help understanding this. 

Of course! You've come to the right place to ask this question, a hotbed of caregivers, enablers, and vulnerable narcissists!    

There's a branch of therapy (probably more than one) that believes you already have the answer to any question you know how to ask. My reaction to your detailed post is that you've presented almost everything you need in it.

But anyway I will ask: what do you mean, you're 'not healthy' emotionally? An emotion in itself doesn't seem to me to be capable of being healthy or not healthy; everything has its season, every emotion its time. Do you mean that the pattern of triggering them seems unhealthy, somehow? That you let them get triggered, by your choices and actions, and you want to understand how this happens?

If so, at risk of this being too early in your process for humor, I can't help but proffer the old feminist favorite, "What part of NO don't you understand?"       

Or, to put it less crudely, it seems that the main steps are:

1. Collecting background information about the situation so you understand it. (It seems to me you've done this part).

2. Deciding on your course of action. (Have you made this decision?)

3. Doing it.

I think this site can help a huge amount with #1, but it seems you're past that.

We can help with the last two mostly by being a cheering section.

   

You can do it!

It will be better after you do it!



PP