How do we make things better? Happier?

[Clearmind]

To help each other, lets chat about how we can make things better….I think many of us can agree that how we are currently doing things/handling things are not helping to defuse the conflict.

Do you want to help make things better?

What is your immediate concern?

How do you ‘usually’ handle the concern?

What can we do differently?

Are you aware of the role you play in the relationship dynamic?

[Broken Dreams]

I'm going to try to answer these questions - not because I have any answers, but because I think it'll be useful for me to have to think about the questions. Sorry if my responses are of no help to anyone else.

Do you want to help make things better?

Yes.

What is your immediate concern?

That things will stay as they are now and never get any better, or not get better to a point that I find acceptable to live with.

How do you ‘usually’ handle the concern?

I'm not sure that I really do.

On the one hand I can see things slowly getting better, and this gives me hope for the future. My boyfriend is in therapy. I think if he wasn't, it would be a totally different story. I wouldn't have hope (how could things possibly get any better if there's no effort put into changing them?) and I might have even left him by now.

But on the other hand progress is very slow, and there are still a lot of issues in our relationship, and I don't know how much longer I'm willing (or able) to wait.

When we're in a bad phase I try to engage in my own interests, I guess for a distraction, while I wait it out. I mentally (and physically where possible) distance myself from him.

What can we do differently?

I've thought about it, and I really don't know what I could do differently right now. Maybe putting more energy into pursuing my own interests would be a good idea. Then if I do end up eventually leaving, I still have something for myself. Even if I stay, I think it's always good to explore interests, so I guess it's a win-win situation.

Are you aware of the role you play in the relationship dynamic?

This is a difficult question. I think I'll have to think about it some more.


Thank you for this thread.

[daze]

Yes. My goal is to make things better and see what happens. I have time and space for patience and here I am on the undecided board.

My words and behavior definitely played into the dysfunction of the r/s. I am learning a lot from therapy , reading books, and this website.

Sometimes my uBPDh is so "normal" I wonder if its me. Then he changes. He may have had the beginning of a cycle today because I couldn't visit him last night (we are separated but in r/s). I visited him this evening and could tell by his tone and demeanor that he was upset about last night. I validated his upset over last night and told him I missed him too. I did not JADE though I had every right to because I was sick last night and had to work this morning. Anyway, if this had happened last fall, it would have turned into a weeklong silent treatment because I would have told him he was being selfish because I was sick. Then it would have deteriorated to my sickness is in my head and I would call him an unsympathetic and immature horses ass or worse. And it would have escalated from there.

[almost789]

Haha Daze, that sounds like what I would do. How difficult though it is to validate someone else while you get none and your sick too. Thats why you have to get your validation from others. Do you have that? Because if you dont this will eventually wear you out.

[daze]

Yes, I do get validation so I am fortunate in that regard. Last year I was more isolated and didn't get as much as I need. But now I do. Family, friends, work , therapy.

[real lady]

Do you want to help make things better?

Yes, but I have realized that I am limited and try to work around his dysregulation, sometimes my "making things better" (for us and him) does NOT make things better for ME, it is NOT easy and is a constant reminder that I love a mentally ill person.

What is your immediate concern?

There is no future but he seems to be "going along with" ignoring the need to DEAL WITH BPD and his behavior. My withdrawal is even more drastic and I don't "see myself coming back" from it with him. I do not trust him to NOT be BPD... .  good thing huh?

How do you ‘usually’ handle the concern?

I have handled it like I was talking to a NORMAL person and it did not work. I DO NOT address any concern with a statement that does not directly validate his own opinion on the matter. I usually NOD a lot and say nothing of what I think.

What can we do differently?

Learn about this wicked illness... .  take good care of ourselves and see that WE DESERVE to live a life that is not constantly controlled and ruined by BPD behavior. EXPECT MUCH LESS from your pwBPD... .  and MUCH MORE from yourself. LIVE YOUR LIFE.

Are you aware of the role you play in the relationship dynamic?

OH YES, and according to my pwBPD, I am 95% of the "problem" that we have in communicating. Do you know what I have done to cure that? I have STOPPED talking... .  only respond to validate his "talk" and then go on my way. My role has been MINIMIZED by him, my influence has been squelched and my opinion has been buried so deep that I will not waste my time and effort to even TRY to communicate at this point. My role in this? I am doing everything I can to NOT SEE MYSELF AS THE VICTIM of BPD.

[almost789]

Go Real Lady!

[crashintome]

Do you want to help make things better?

Absolutely.

What is your immediate concern?

That she won't ever contact me again.

How do you ‘usually’ handle the concern?

Typically, I spend a whole lot of time obsessing over it mentally while putting on this front of a normal life.

What can we do differently?

I know I need to take steps to remove her 100% from my life, but I just can't do it right now.

Are you aware of the role you play in the relationship dynamic?

I'm a doormat; I let her walk all over me.  I allow her to treat me like a little kid treats a toy - she can just put me on a shelf and come back when she needs/wants me.

[Clearmind]

Thank you BD for being the first to put yourself out there! I appreciate your honesty and sometimes we can get so wrapped up in the “its my fault, how do I extract myself” that we lose the point all together.

If there is one thing that had me beat in my r/s was the circular arguments – discussions seemed to go nowhere – very frustrating and humiliating.

That things will stay as they are now and never get any better, or not get better to a point that I find acceptable to live with.

Loving someone with BPD is accepting, in part, their limitations. This is hard to do I know.

Is there a specific issue you are having trouble with?

I'm not sure that I really do.

On the one hand I can see things slowly getting better, and this gives me hope for the future. My boyfriend is in therapy. I think if he wasn't, it would be a totally different story. I wouldn't have hope (how could things possibly get any better if there's no effort put into changing them?) and I might have even left him by now.

But on the other hand progress is very slow, and there are still a lot of issues in our relationship, and I don't know how much longer I'm willing (or able) to wait.

When we're in a bad phase I try to engage in my own interests, I guess for a distraction, while I wait it out. I mentally (and physically where possible) distance myself from him.

BD, I hear he is in therapy and that is wonderful – he is taking some responsibility for his part.

To make things better we also need to work on our personal issues. Relationships do take two and knowing how we relate to the other in the union can begin to help rather than hinder communication.

Are you seeking out therapy?

Are you able to be more specific?

I am pleased you look after yourself and have your own interests BD – this is so important. Enmeshment/co-dependency is common – all this tends to do is create an environment where we become resentful.

I've thought about it, and I really don't know what I could do differently right now. Maybe putting more energy into pursuing my own interests would be a good idea. Then if I do end up eventually leaving, I still have something for myself. Even if I stay, I think it's always good to explore interests, so I guess it's a win-win situation.

Maybe how you relate to each other? Handle conflict? Not certain BD – just poking around. It’s a good idea to really focus down on the main issues – that way you begin to work towards bettering them.

This is a difficult question. I think I'll have to think about it some more.

Come back and post BD – if its tricky then maybe its worth looking more into.

[Clearmind]

My words and behavior definitely played into the dysfunction of the r/s. I am learning a lot from therapy , reading books, and this website.

Can you share daze what you have uncovered?

Sometimes my uBPDh is so "normal" I wonder if its me. Then he changes. He may have had the beginning of a cycle today because I couldn't visit him last night (we are separated but in r/s). I visited him this evening and could tell by his tone and demeanor that he was upset about last night. I validated his upset over last night and told him I missed him too. I did not JADE though I had every right to because I was sick last night and had to work this morning. Anyway, if this had happened last fall, it would have turned into a weeklong silent treatment because I would have told him he was being selfish because I was sick. Then it would have deteriorated to my sickness is in my head and I would call him an unsympathetic and immature horses ass or worse. And it would have escalated from there.

Good thing not to JADE! Kudos to you – validation used in the right way can certainly defuse conflict.

How are you feeling about the r/s? Has some distance helped you to gain some perspective?

[Clearmind]

Real lady, from memory you have a son – how is he impacted?

RL, I also grew up in a BPD (w/NPD traits) household and many other family members who have traits – I know full well how this has impacted me as an adult. We all learn our relationship skills from our carers/environment.

You mention you have OCDP/NPD family members – have you looked into how growing up in an environment such as this may have impacted your own coping skills.

You would like to make things better - which is great - how do you plan on going about it?

Yes, but I have realized that I am limited and try to work around his dysregulation, sometimes my "making things better" (for us and him) does NOT make things better for ME, it is NOT easy and is a constant reminder that I love a mentally ill person.

RL, can you help me understand this a bit better?

Making things better is not a trade off – its about working on your side of the fence. You cant change him.

There is no future but he seems to be "going along with" ignoring the need to DEAL WITH BPD and his behavior. My withdrawal is even more drastic and I don't "see myself coming back" from it with him. I do not trust him to NOT be BPD... .  good thing huh?

Detaching is OK – its many of us do to not be enmeshed in their woes.

What is your immediate concern?

I have handled it like I was talking to a NORMAL person and it did not work. I DO NOT address any concern with a statement that does not directly validate his own opinion on the matter. I usually NOD a lot and say nothing of what I think.

Is your approach working real lady?

I don’t mean working in the sense that you want to reconcile – I mean working in the sense of keeping the conflict to a minimum until you leave – especially for your DS.

From memory you plan on leaving in 12 months – that’s a long time to be embroiled in drama/conflict without working with the tools here. This will not make for a happy environment.

Learn about this wicked illness... .  take good care of ourselves and see that WE DESERVE to live a life that is not constantly controlled and ruined by BPD behavior. EXPECT MUCH LESS from your pwBPD... .  and MUCH MORE from yourself. LIVE YOUR LIFE!

Has you begun to work on your own healing?

It takes two real lady and we do play a role in the dynamic?

Have you looked into your role?

Are you aware of the role you play in the relationship dynamic?

OH YES, and according to my pwBPD, I am 95% of the "problem" that we have in communicating. Do you know what I have done to cure that? I have STOPPED talking... .  only respond to validate his "talk" and then go on my way. My role has been MINIMIZED by him, my influence has been squelched and my opinion has been buried so deep that I will not waste my time and effort to even TRY to communicate at this point. My role in this? I am doing everything I can to NOT SEE MYSELF AS THE VICTIM of BPD.

Real lady if I can be frank here – given this thread is about making things better – how do YOU plan on making things better? This is about you not him – if you take some of the focus and anger off of him you may begin to see some improvement.

[daze]

I uncovered that I have issues - mainly involving codependency - my defense mechanisms are not always mature, and I have less than perfect communication skills.  I am understanding more about myself and family of origin. I have not been healthy myself. The relationship brought my issues to the forefront unlike anything up to this point.

The distance has helped me see my role in it.

I love my husband. I don't know what will happen.

[real lady]

Real lady if I can be frank here – given this thread is about making things better – how do YOU plan on making things better? This is about you not him – if you take some of the focus and anger off of him you may begin to see some improvement.

I am already doing ALL THAT I CAN for him, myself and my son to make "things better" for the time that we will remain here. I don't see it getting "better" than this without HIS input and he isn't offering. Taking good care of myself and NOT expecting him to "act normally" or in a "healthy manner" is A VERY WISE thing for me to do... .  it brings me peace knowing that I have done ALL that I can FOR him, FOR us and now, I am focusing on doing FOR myself. What do you mean by "making things better?"... .  how can a NON make anything better? we can only do for ourselves.

[Clearmind]

I uncovered that I have issues - mainly involving codependency - my defense mechanisms are not always mature, and I have less than perfect communication skills.  I am understanding more about myself and family of origin. I have not been healthy myself. The relationship brought my issues to the forefront unlike anything up to this point.

The distance has helped me see my role in it.

I love my husband. I don't know what will happen.

Daze, good for you - you are doing a lot for yourself and getting to know you better despite your FOO.

Its amazing how working on us can help the r/s. Like you my own issues were magnified to the stage where I could no longer ignore them.

I always did like Steph’s break-down on https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a104.htm

Nothing changes without change

And the first change starts with us. When we say we need to change ourselves, we mean... .  

We need to make ourselves healthy again.

We need to learn to communicate effectively.

We need to learn to set limits and define our own boundaries... and we learn to enforce them.

We need to learn to walk away from emotional dysregulation

We need to learn to allow the person with BPD their own feelings and lives and we allow the same for us

We need to stop trying to micromanage them, we stop trying to manipulate our lives to avoid unpleasent episodes, we allow them the space and time to regulate their emotions and we do the same for ourselves.

All of these things get us back on the track for emotional well being and also can greatly improve our relationships.

People can only change themselves... .  

Steph.

All the best to you Daze.

[waverider]

Do you want to help make things better?

Definitely, and the more I see this being effective the more it encourages me

What is your immediate concern?

My partner sees recovery as repeating the idealization phase, eg mirroring me and my needs, rather than concentrating on building her own self supporting sense of self

How do you ‘usually’ handle the concern?

Only just become aware that this is the direction her recovery is taking. So I am attempting to encourage her to do more "solo" actions

What can we do differently?

Validate, praise and reward all the little "chore" and mundane activities that we all take for granted. In contrast dont overly praise the superficial grand gestures. In other words rewards more accurately reflect effort rather than effect. With the aim of achieving functional balance rather than perception of function.

Are you aware of the role you play in the relationship dynamic?

Yes more and more. moving away from the victim and provider role, and more to understanding how enabling effectively disables her development. In other words being more aware of the negative impact a non partner can have on a pwBPD.

A pwBPD also needs a person to aspire to and respect, to be fun to be around no matter their own mood. The non has to be careful not to mirror the pwBPDs  darker moments.

[Broken Dreams]

If there is one thing that had me beat in my r/s was the circular arguments – discussions seemed to go nowhere – very frustrating and humiliating.

Absolutely. Sometimes this has led me to feel that it's not worth saying anything at all to my boyfriend (as someone else also said further up this thread - sorry, I forget who said that now). But then I think there's the issue of becoming too distant. And that's fine if that's what you want and you're planning on leaving anyway, but I'm not at the moment.

Loving someone with BPD is accepting, in part, their limitations. This is hard to do I know.

Is there a specific issue you are having trouble with?

I don't think there's one specific issue - there are many.

One issue that stands out, though, is something that happened a few months ago that I haven't been able to forget. I found out that he'd been logging everything I was doing online. Since I can't forget it, I wonder if this is the final straw moment that I've seen others talk about - yet I'm still here... .  

But it isn't just that, there are a lot of more trivial things too.

I do still love him, but to be honest I don't know if I can accept his limitations. I'd accept them in a friend, but in a life partner? I'm not sure if I can do that.

BD, I hear he is in therapy and that is wonderful – he is taking some responsibility for his part.

To make things better we also need to work on our personal issues. Relationships do take two and knowing how we relate to the other in the union can begin to help rather than hinder communication.

Are you seeking out therapy?

Are you able to be more specific?

Yes I started seeing a therapist recently - I hope that will help me sort out what I want to do.

I think I could fill a few pages with being more specific! So I don't think I'll do that right now.  But I'll just say that I can feel myself becoming more and more depressed (it's an issue I've dealt with in the past, so I can't blame it all on my boyfriend's BPD). I feel at times that it's bordering on the point of becoming dangerous. This is not a suicide threat or anything at all like that - I'm just saying that I know I can't do this for much longer (whatever "it" is).

Maybe how you relate to each other? Handle conflict? Not certain BD – just poking around. It’s a good idea to really focus down on the main issues – that way you begin to work towards bettering them.

Well I've already found using SET is helpful, but lately I forget to use it. I should make more effort to as it really does help.

Now I'll come back to the question I couldn't answer before. I think I play many different roles in the relationship: girlfriend, best friend, mother - basically an entire support network in the form of one person! But also: worthless piece of s*** who won't go away, and is the cause of everything currently going badly.

I've noticed recently that I sometimes feel like a single parent (not that I'd know how that really feels, having never been one). Certainly on an emotional level I feel like I'm an adult single-handedly taking care of a child, with no support for myself in this.

[waverider]

I've noticed recently that I sometimes feel like a single parent (not that I'd know how that really feels, having never been one). Certainly on an emotional level I feel like I'm an adult single-handedly taking care of a child, with no support for myself in this.

I think this is a good analogy that fits many of us, throw in some actual kids too, and it is easy to see how partners get over burdened and stressed, and of course can't rely on their partners for support in crisis moments, as it will be turned into you blaming them. Top this off by the usual isolation of family and friends by it all being too hard.

It is important I think for partners to acknowledge potential depression and go see the doc. Rather than soldiering on regardless. If you allow depression to take a hold then the whole house of cards you are trying to support will come tumbling down on your head.

[almost789]

I think your doing your best real lady. Your validating and using the skills youve learned here. You seem to have detached with love. Sounds like your plan is to get by best you can until you  can GET  OUT. Good for you.

All the best to you Real Lady.