Host & Parasite or Willing Volunteer?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I've seen the term "Host" thrown around here.  Here's a few from the last year... .  

BPD is occupied with a new host, his or her attention will be on that and not on you

the new host has to be at the same level of emotional maturity as she is

she wants to cause drama with a new host,

Host means someones who offers someone hospitality and comfort, or it can mean something more negative and parasitic ~ for that to happen would mean you had no choice to say "No thank you".  So you either offered & volunteered or didn't have choices.

So I'm asking why do you think you volunteered?  :)id you give up your choices?  What were those choices?  And, why did you hand this over to someone else?

-This thread isn't about celebrating being a victim.  This is about the choices we've made.  If you want to talk about that kind of stuff, BPD folklore or trickery, or start blaming your choices on the other person don't do it here.  

We've all made bad choices, this is about learning from them so we don't make them again.  There's no right or wrong answers in this exercise, it's a way to look back with some honest perspective at our own part and clean up our own mess.  Maybe we can elevate the level of discussion and learn from each other.

[GreenMango]

I've seen the term "Host" thrown around here.  Here's a few from the last year... .  

BPD is occupied with a new host, his or her attention will be on that and not on you

the new host has to be at the same level of emotional maturity as she is

she wants to cause drama with a new host,

Host means someones who offers someone hospitality and comfort, or it can mean something more negative and parasitic ~ for that to happen would mean you had no choice to say "No thank you".  So you either offered & volunteered or didn't have choices.

So I'm asking why do you think you volunteered?  :)id you give up your choices?  What were those choices?  And, why did you hand this over to someone else?

-This thread isn't about celebrating being a victim.  This is about the choices we've made.  If you want to talk about that kind of stuff, BPD folklore or trickery, or start blaming your choices on the other person don't do it here.  

We've all made bad choices, this is about learning from them so we don't make them again.  There's no right or wrong answers in this exercise, it's a way to look back with some honest perspective at our own part and clean up our own mess.  Maybe we can elevate the level of discussion and learn from each other.

[really]

Very good question GM.

My psychologist said to me the other day, when she could see me beating myself up for what happened:

"Go and write a list of the reasons you chose to be with her, and believed her statements of commitment

Then go write a list of how you acted within your values

Bottom line is I made a choice to stay when she had lied to me before.    I chose to forgive her going back to her ex.   I was free to walk away but chose to stay.

That was a bad choice but it was mine.  I wasn't compelled to stay just as she was not compelled to cheat.

Do I regret making that choice - yes, because it has had financial and other implications for me, which I am having to work through now.   But it was my choice.

[GreenMango]

"Go and write a list of the reasons you chose to be with her, and believed her statements of commitment

Then go write a list of how you acted within your values

Whew... .  that's a good therapist.

That's like slapping yourself in the face.  I didn't act within my values much of the time with my choices.


Thanks really... .  great thoughts. 

[really]

That statement from the therapist was about reassuring me that with who I am and what was important to me there was nothing I could do.

My value system is based on honesty commitment trust and forgiveness.     There were certainly times when the lies resulted in such an erosion of my self belief that I was less than calm.   Yet on the few occasions when I was given honesty I responded with kindness understanding patience and grace.    That is one thing I can say about myself in my defence.  Although the stress got the better of me at times when honesty was given forgiveness and understanding did flow from me. 

I certainly did not have the understanding at the time to initiate validating responses when the communication and honesty was lacking.  In hindsight the rages were easier to deal with than the silence and shutting out. 

I still swing from wanting her to understand just what hurt she caused me to forgiveness for what must be a terrible way to live.

I just don't know anymore.  I struggle to feel free of my trauma bond.  My life feels empty without her yet I know how she was never capable of giving me what I wanted and that nothing justified her cheating and horrendous devaluation of me. 

My therapist sought to help me stop me beating myself up but when she seems so happy in her new life and mine feels so barren it remains hard not to.   I long for that day when I stop ruminating.     As much as I know so much of it wasn't real (not in a sustainable way) it felt very much like it at the time. 

[sunrising]

Greenmango, You do an excellent job of redirecting people's attention to themselves, rather than the exwBPD.  I'm guilty of joining the "this is what my ex did" threads and piling right on.   

Thank you for the reminder that this is supposed to be about me: my mistakes, my challenges, and my growth.

[struggli]

I put up with it because she was beautiful, the sex was amazing, and I wanted to believe that she was "the one" who would fill the void of struggli.  I had some serious delusion goggles on and still do to some degree.  While I still value beauty and attraction, I have vowed to make sure I do not fixate on it and miss everything else.  I thought I was already somewhat discriminating of character but this failed relationship proved me quite wrong.

[TheDude]

-This thread isn't about celebrating being a victim.  This is about the choices we've made.  If you want to talk about that kind of stuff, BPD folklore or trickery, or start blaming your choices on the other person don't do it here.

Hear, hear!

Setting aside anything to do with mental disorders/capacity for the sake of one point, there is - more often than not - a common tendency to devalue a former partner as a means of 'healing'. Devaluation... .  Invalidation... .  Negativity.

Do these things sound familiar?

My own personal definition of "letting go" includes working through the negativity and letting that go too.

"There are people in your life who've come and gone

They let you down and hurt your pride

Better put it all behind you; life goes on

You keep carryin' that anger, it'll eat you up inside"

~ Don Henley, Heart of the Matter.

Just thinking out loud.

[wishingwell17]

forewarn:  I am just a few days out of my r/s. 

My head is spinning today as I feel a big sense of relief and simultaneously wondering where was "I" during the last five years.

really - thank you for sharing this request from your T.  It is a timely exercise for me to use today ( and days to come).

"Go and write a list of the reasons you chose to be with her, and believed her statements of commitment

Then go write a list of how you acted within your values

I know I am responsible for not acting in accordance with my values too many times. I have an opportunity in front of me and will use this list to self check daily as my r/s winds down and I am able to implement NC in order to have the space to heal.

Interesting is in the last few months I HAVE been increasingly responding in accordance with my values and have this has lead me to the my decision to end the r/s.

I understand very clearly had I behaved  early on with my values solidly intact I do not believe we would have been together more than a year. In my process of healing I will need to wrap my head around what I "needed more".

So thank you again for sharing. And, thank you Green Mango for redirecting. My head is filled with hurt and anger from the events of my r/s. 

I feel better when I focus on myself and opportunities for growth and healing. When I focus on him I continue "being" in the r/s and I want to behave as I am, out of it.

The Dude:

My own personal definition of "letting go" includes working through the negativity and letting that go too.

Yes, this is a gift to ourselves.

[Cumulus]

There is a lot to process with these questions. Some words trigger me to feel negatively, even if they are not used in that concept. One of those phrases is host/parasite. Another is codependent. When I consider my role in the relationship the word I feel suits me best, and I am able to live with is enabler.

So why did I volunteer?  There was no aspect of volunteering to it. I was young, he was persistent, pursuing me for months with no recognition from me. Makes you feel special when someone is that persistent towards you. A weak moment, I answer his call, we are married with lightening speed. I grew up in a dysfunctional home, as did so many of us, and no one had ever cared about me like he did. I didn't stand a chance.

So what choices did I have, to stay with him or to leave. We are talking many years ago before BPD was recognized. I just knew I had married a weak, difficult, and angry man.

I am committed, I am strong, I am loyal, I have joy within myself, and I am married. I stay.

The choices I made were to further my education, develop new interests and hobbies, to find good friends. I was learning to meet my needs without him. And I would have continued on this same path to my last breath if I hadn't found out about his "other" life. When I found out, I chose to separate.

I don't see that I handed my life choices over to him. There were poor choices, as they were based on the lies and half truths he told me. Looking back I could say I should have been less trusting, less accepting, and less giving. But that is me, who I am. Older and wiser now I am just more careful with those I let get close to me.

[willy45]

Great, great question.

I volunteered to let her dictate my reality. She would rage out of control and then blame me for it. Constantly. She would scream at me when I was sleeping. She would scream at me during the day. Everything was a constant stress.

When we would discuss it, I let her dictate my reality. I would let her confuse me. I would let her put thoughts into my head. I would let her lay the blame on me. I let her distort my version of reality.

I did not act in good faith. I left the relationship long before I broke up with her. But I stayed, still thinking that I would give her a chance. I loved her very much. Well, I didn't love her. I loved who I thought she was, not the way she treated me. I kept giving her chance after chance after chance.

[willy45]

Sorry... .  more thoughts... .  

I gave up my sense of right and wrong. I gave up my trust in my own judgement. I continually let things slide. I continually let her abuse me because I thought I was impervious to it. I stayed for the sex. I stayed for the intellect. I stayed for the excitement. I stayed because I thought she was beautiful. I stayed because I thought she was kind and funny and caring.

I chose to ignore the pain she would inflict on me. I chose to ignore the raging. I accepted these things as my fault. I chose to look the other way, to give her the benefit of the doubt. I chose to believe in something that wasn't real. I chose to believe her instead of me. She would weave these webs of lies about herself that I would believe. She would web these lies about me that I would believe. And I willingly gave that up.

I guess if I was to be blunt, I was addicted to the sex. In some ways, I was addicted to the power I gave up to her. And this was reflected in the sex.

I did not value myself enough. I did not value my perceptions enough. If I did, I would have been out a long, long, long time ago. In fact, I probably never would have gotten involved in the first place. I knew she was unstable. I knew she had an unstable history. I knew she was manipulative and needy. I knew all that. I even broke up with her after 3 months. After 7 years, I have still allowed her in my life. Only a month ago, I let her cross my NC boundaries and actually met with her. And it was terrible. I was like a sick little puppy dog, chasing after something I thought was disgusting. I let her do that. She manipulated me into it. Sure. But I also let her. And I let her dictate everything. I let her cross my boundaries. I didn't stand up for myself or for what I experienced as deeply hurtful and abusive.

[bb12]

I stayed because I was at a very lonely time in my life - many years single - and it was light, casual and fun... .  At the start. We choose the relationship we think we deserve. I think I suffered from poor self esteem from an invalidating childhood and it contributed to my staying. I didnt think i deserved better. And then the mystery of the cruel change in their behaviour saw me dig my heels in and find a way to middle through. I had never really failed in that regard previously so was sure I could turn things around or at the very least find an amicable way to end.

Lightbulb moments for my own growth came from reading books like Dance of Wounded Souls and realising I was a card carrying codependent and barely aware of my own needs, wants and desires as I make relationships all about the other person. So that was a massive contributor also

Bb12

[GreenMango]

Really provided a good opportunity to talk about going against our values with the choices we've made.  I think sometimes when we betray ourselves like that its hard to let go. 

Looking at those things, accepting it, and tending to it is part of detaching and learning where not to do it again.

This would be a good subject to focus on.  What values you had/have and the particular choices that you've made that did not support them.

[GustheDog]

I gave up my sense of right and wrong. I gave up my trust in my own judgement. I continually let things slide. I continually let her abuse me because I thought I was impervious to it. I stayed for the sex. I stayed for the intellect. I stayed for the excitement. I stayed because I thought she was beautiful. I stayed because I thought she was kind and funny and caring.

I chose to ignore the pain she would inflict on me. I chose to ignore the raging. I accepted these things as my fault. I chose to look the other way, to give her the benefit of the doubt. I chose to believe in something that wasn't real. I chose to believe her instead of me. She would weave these webs of lies about herself that I would believe. She would web these lies about me that I would believe. And I willingly gave that up.

I did not value myself enough. I did not value my perceptions enough. If I did, I would have been out a long, long, long time ago. In fact, I probably never would have gotten involved in the first place. I knew she was unstable. I knew she had an unstable history. I knew she was manipulative and needy. I knew all that.

Ditto.

With respect to the emphasized statements, what's amazing is that she was remarkably candid about all of these things.  

[almost789]

Im not sure what exactly you are looking for here. I was obviously a willing volunteer. It was fun, exciting and intense. I enjoyed most of my time with him , until he changed. Then I left. The recycles happened because I love him and I wanted back what I had.

[GreenMango]

Well what made ya leave?

[almost789]

Well the lies, the distancing all the typical BPD stuff, suspected  cheating which was actually an online sex addiction but, what is it were looking for here? I didnt quite understand the question and I dont get the host thing.

[GreenMango]

Yeah I don't get the host thing.  When I see it its mostly speaking in a way that a person feels that they were preyed upon.

When I asked why ya left it looks like those were things you valued like fidelity but weren't getting.  But then when back.  So did the values change?

Ps I did this too... .  but my values didn't change I expected him to change and made a choice to go back knowing this difference in values & behavior

[almost789]

Yes I accepted it. I accepted I guess alot more than I should have. I dont know why. Because it wasnt a serious relationship. Or so I thought. I never planned on falling in love with him.The infidelity or the online sex addiction wasnt a deal breaker for me initially. It was only  was when he switched his priorites and put his addiction before me.

[GreenMango]

I think many of started with boundaries and as things intensified we capitulated or traded off some values for others ... .  Like togetherness over fidelity.

You ask a good question of why.  Id guess for each person that is different but really important to find out so it doesn't happen again, or we are aware of these choices.

When you feel ready I think that question of why is a great topic to explore.

[Iced]

At the beginning, I didn't see the BPD, but in my case, my experience with a pwBPD was a former very close friend of mine so our relationship - while close - perhaps wasn't as close as the relationships between SOs.

That said, at the beginning, I knew my friend had had some trouble and at that time, I thought I would be able to be their friend while still managing to keep boundaries.

In my case, I later developed what was perhaps a misplaced sense of responsibility towards my friend.  They were significantly younger than me (and in some ways, mentally/thinking-wise more mature than most of their peers though emotionally not so) and at the same time, they were a minor.  Their family situation was rather difficult as my friend's single parent was also very likely a pwBPD.

Though that was not what I had intended to do, in some ways I felt very - familial to them and my sense of responsibility and my worrying for their safety and well-being gave me more patience and wore down my boundaries in ways that I normally wouldn't tolerate.

I didn't pity them but I was immensely concerned for them and my own worrying and inability to let the situation go (fear of repercussions such as them committing suicide because they were lacking control over their emotions - mostly on their end) was what ultimately undermined my 'I will stick to my boundaries' mentality.

[GreenMango]

As you relaxed your boundaries and values it lead you to make choices you wouldn't have before?

Is it fair to say you let the guilt or sense of obligation guide your decisions and choices?

[doubleAries]

So I'm asking why do you think you volunteered?

Good question, that's probably more complex, but I'll start here: I think somewhere deeper inside me, I saw an opportunity. An opportunity to work hard to get someone very aloof and distant to like/love me so I could prove (to myself?) that I have value, that I'm lovable. It would need to be a challenge, so I could be sure it was really true. Obviously, this wasn't a conscious thought.

Did you give up your choices?

Not at first. I felt like the parable of the frog being boiled. I began to feel trapped. But mainly because I couldn't see past my own methods, which weren't working. So I gave up my choices, but they weren't taken from me.  

What were those choices?

NUMEROUS!  

And, why did you hand this over to someone else?

In many ways, I did not accept the limits of my spouses capabilities. I subjugated my values and boundaries to his fears and rigidity. Then I became angry at him for not being grateful for that. I *knew* what I wanted from an intimate relationship, yet chose someone incapable of giving those things. I came to believe that since we were so apparently different, that one or the other of us had to give in. I gave in, but was resentful about it and wanted him compromise by also giving in. It was easier to look at his inability to interact emotionally in a genuine and sincere manner than it was to look at my *ideal*--which apparently was 2 people subjugating themselves to each other, looking for something the other couldn't give. I put huge pressure on him to do something he could not do, which caused a lot of stress, tension, and resentment for both of us. I did not accept his limitations and expected him to magically overcome bipolar and personality disorders to prove he loved me. Not exactly healthy... .  

[willy45]

GreenMango... .  You are a genius.

Yes and YES! I was with my ex for 3 months and then dumped her. She freaked me out and was talking about marriage and all this stuff, plus I knew she had just gotten out of a relationship with an abusive alcoholic (so she said) and she was going to Al-Anon meetings on the regular. We stayed friends for about a year after that. Then, one Valentine's day, we were both single and hanging out and we ended up sleeping together. I felt super guilty. Every month or so, we would sleep together again. And then I got a chance to travel the world. Somehow, I invited her to go to China with me. I don't remember whose idea it was. I don't think it was mine. But I felt guilty and so invited her. Plus the sex was pretty great so I thought, why not?

Anyhow, every step of the relationship I felt guilty about it. She was a good friend to me and we had great sex. When she first told me she loved me, I didn't really respond. I still thought she was kind of nuts and depressive and unstable. She got mad at me and so I told her I loved her too. And then I felt guilty about that and so kept up the charade. Her life was so miserable and unstable that I kept thinking I would get out once she was stable. It never happened. There was always a huge drama. Even the small things became huge dramas. But I kept up the charade. I didn't want to hurt her. And I was addicted the highs and lows. I was addicted to the sex. I think I used the drama's as an excuse to not break up with her and keep up my addiction. And yes, I felt obliged to help her.

What boundaries did I break?

1) She would rage at me all the time. She blamed me and I accepted the blame

2) I would have to sleep on the floor because the $2500 king sized mattress wasn't 'big enough' for both of us (and I started taking sleeping pills so that I could sleep through the night on the floor... .  no joke)

3) I would lie to my friends and family about the relationship. All the time. My life became years and years of lying.

4) I cheated on her. I got involved with another woman that I really loved. But I couldn't break up with my ex. That was a terrible thing to have done. There was just so much drama. I kept thinking that once the drama calmed down, that I would just ditch her. The drama never calmed down. I was afraid she would commit suicide or be hospitalized or something. The irony of it all is that when everything came crashing down, I was the one that was almost hospitalized.

5) So many sexual boundaries were crossed. Sex was completely empty of love. It was just lust. And she would always flirt with other men in front me and she would go to strip clubs with other men and tell me about it.

6) I was constantly, constantly anxious. I was always worried that she was going to flip out on me. I never knew when it was going to happen. But I knew it was going to happen. It was like living in a nightmare. Stretches of amazing times and then random rages for no reason (although she always had a reason... .  and that reason was ALWAY ME).

7) I stopped listening to myself. I stopped grounding myself in my own reality.

[GreenMango]

This may be an uncomfortable question but did she have any control over your choices?

[GustheDog]

I think many of started with boundaries and as things intensified we capitulated or traded off some values for others ... .  Like togetherness over fidelity.

You ask a good question of why.  Id guess for each person that is different but really important to find out so it doesn't happen again, or we are aware of these choices.

When you feel ready I think that question of why is a great topic to explore.

Here's "why" in my case:

Yes, there were plenty of red flags that should not have been overlooked.  Nevertheless, for the most part, my ex looked, acted, and sounded like she had it all together.  In fact, there were at least a few areas in which I perceived her to be *more* responsible and conscientious than me.  Furthermore, she did not cheat on me (to my knowledge) and arguments, when they occurred, seemed little more than reasonable, everyday disagreements.  The relationship was progressing as I believed one should - we grew closer, starting making more plans for the future, etc.  There was no push/pull, no overt abuse, for more than 2 years.

I was split black very abruptly and for no discernible reason (that I could see at that time).  This occurred ~2 months before she abandoned the relationship - I haven't heard a peep from her in more than 4 months.  But it was only at this time that I really started to compromise my values. 

But why?  In a word: FOG.  Shock, hurt, deep yearning to return to what my life had been like with this person for the previous 2 years.  Like I said - yes, I overlooked some things that I shouldn't have, but I saw one pretty consistent, pretty capable (appearing) person every day for 2 years, and it was only now that I was seeing this.  When your timeline looks like this, I found it very, very easy to doubt and blame myself.  For over 2 years I'd known her to be a reasonable person, so it seemed reasonable to believe what she was telling me now.

It took a good few months to knock off that nonsense, and now I have my values back, and my boundaries.  And that's also why I'm guessing I'll probably never hear from her again.  She knows I can see straight through her.  Her ex immediately before me continued to carry the blame, and that allowed her to recycle him a few times over a period of about 6 years (unsurprising to me now, they'd usually last a year or two between splits).  Likely she would have gone back to him again, but she just happened to meet me during their last split.

That's not at all how I care to live my life, or be treated by someone.  I will be no one's backburner option. 

Finally, yes, she controlled my choices.  To the point where I nearly passed up a tremendous career opportunity for something just to be close to her - even though she originally said SHE':) go wherever I ended up.  She changed her mind at the last minute and I frantically searched for something closer.  I'm pretty angry with myself for not having had a spine, but it's weird - it's tough to keep your bearings when you wake up one day and all the furniture is on the ceiling.  Disorienting.

[almost789]

True, I did have boundaries Green Mango, I did relax them some as I began to see he was a bit different. The question of why  I continued after the first BIG RED flag and him hurting me on a huge level. I dont know. I TRULLY have no clue all I can come up with is that love is blind. And I knew that the pain of losing him was severe. Because he idolized me for months, I was addicted.

[Iced]

As you relaxed your boundaries and values it lead you to make choices you wouldn't have before?

Is it fair to say you let the guilt or sense of obligation guide your decisions and choices?

Green Mango,

Absolutely, it IS fair and my responsibility to say and to own up that it was my own sense of guilt and obligation that influenced me in making the decisions that I did.  In particular, staying longer than was healthy when I knew my sense of boundaries had been compromised and I was likely to buckle.

Absolutely.

And another part of my healing process is coming to terms with the fact that I myself hadn't understood BPD enough (like I said, it wasn't overt at first that BPD was what I was dealing with) and perhaps ended up treating my friend like someone who didn't have such a severe attachment disorder.

I don't blame them for having the disorder and I don't blame them for the pain that causes them to lash out inappropriately.

Because they kept showing flashes of what seemed to be rational decision-making (and I am one of those people who believes that pwBPD, depending on how severe, CAN be self-aware and my friend HAD been seeing a therapist for a while), it made the notion of my friend being deliberate in their verbal abuse that much more possible/palpable which... .  was only 'proved' (to my mind) by the fact that their final words to me were phrases that amounted to them wishing that I would suffer for everything and that they KNEW this would hurt me and that that was EXACTLY what they wanted.

This declaration of knowing what they were doing (even if they were perhaps delusional from being caught up in the flurry of BPD) provoked the anger and hurt response from me because I felt that I was deliberately being hurt and that bit right there is what I sometimes still struggle with.

My friend kept insisting over and over and over that they knew, were aware, etc... .  and yet.

They supposedly knew, but couldn't apologize.

They supposedly knew they were caught up in the maelstrom of BPD, but absolutely refused help.

At that point, I became a victim of their BPD-induced rage and abuse because I stayed and I own up to it.

But that's also why we're no longer friends and why I'm returning to therapy.

[Iced]

To directly answer the topic title itself:

"We may start out as accidental hosts, but if we stay longer than we ought to, we become willing volunteers."

[GreenMango]

It's hard when we realize we can be victims of our choices.