How many relations end with "Get help or else"?

[Maryiscontrary]

I had my divorce finalized on thursday. One of the major reasons it came to that point is that my ex refused to get help, with me by his side, when he had a major psychotic break and became dangerous.

I enforced a boundary and told him that ether he gets help, or the marriage... .  and the business we built together, is over. He did not take this seriously, and I followed through swiftly.

How many relationships here ended when an explicit and repeated request for help was ignored, and you had to enforce this boundary?

[Maryiscontrary]

I really would appreciate feedback on this.

[hithere]

I think many do.  But it is usually just one of many deal-breakers... .  I think my list had about 6 deal-breakers, this was middle-of-the-pack.

I wonder how many BPD's promised to go/stay in therapy to recycle and failed... .  many I suspect.

[GreenMango]

Happened here.  Are you having  regrets?

[beachgirl009]

Ended the relationship but told him that if he followed through with therapy, medications, etc. I would consider something down the road after he "stepped up".  Didn't happen.  He made a lot of promises, but in the end only self medicated with alcohol. 

[Maryiscontrary]

Thanks for ya'lls feedback. I have zero regrets. In fact, I learned boundary building from this board. Thank you!

Ultimately, in order for these relationships to work, you cannot go around feeling unsafe. I gave reams of emails to my lawyer, and seeing the progression over time, I became more direct and articulate about my needs. He did not want a divorce, but he absolutely would not take very well articulated needs of safety and urgent requests for his getting help seriously. Was very, very arrogant and tried to gaslight, project, etc.

Just as a reminder, his problems went much further than attachment and PTSD issues. He has persistent break with reality, not unlike John Nashs paranoid  schizophrenia. He was a difficult client for his attorney, and he had an outburst in court. I still do not know what is wrong with him.

You have to understand that we loved each other. I was the best friend and confidant he ever had. And yet, he refused to recognize how threatening his behavior has become.

I went nc 6 months ago, because he was so sick, that we could not have a conversation. I mean, no meeting of the mind, impossible for information to be  exchanged. He regressed to that of a defiant 5 year old, not unlike my demented elderly grandmother was before she died.

He still loves me, and travelled 1400 to get creamed in court. Too sick to even effectively cover up assets, and would have been caught red handed if it ever got to that stage. Had dodged service, with a "catch me if you can" attitude. Totally pissed off the judge.

He was trying the typical BPD divorce tactics, but he was so sick, his concoctions were less than half assed. He is broken from reality, and it extends far beyond BPD.

I just can't believe that my life came to this.

[gina louise]

mary,

I am so so sorry you have to go through this. it must be saddening for you to see it come to this- and have to protect yourself. 

those were my last "deal breaker" words to my H. "Get help and I will go with you."

When I insisted that my then raging HUSBAND get help for his violent rages and erratic behavior before we split and I fled the next morning, he refused flat out-and said I had missed my one chance at joint therapy. (news to me!) apparently at some point in the past I missed that chance.   

I felt very unsafe and was relieved to get away. My HUSBAND is still acting irrationally-though not as extreme as yours.

He's lashing out at women in particular.(my  lawyer, and myself and even women he sits next to in AA meetings)

Some of these women he hardly knows!

He's projecting his anger and then feeling that he's being attacked in minor conversations-assuming the shame and humiliation he accused me of "heaping" on him at the end. Claiming they "ALL want him for his money"!

it's very bizarre, but I am kind of not surprised.

I bet it happens a lot.

GL

[Maryiscontrary]

Gina, sounds very similar situation. Mine had a concussion head injury from a bullet grazing his skull, plus severe trauma.

We need to remember that the so called BPD is an attachment issues... .  but this attachment issue can be embedded in austism, mood disorders, schizophrenia... .  etc. it sounds like yours was sort of on the end of the florid psychotic end, maybe closer, like mine, to schizophrenia.

Gina, I am having a hard time getting over how psychotic he was, and how empathy and friendship were insufficient. Many times, what the mentally ill need is compassion and friendship and connection. I am having a hard time wrapping my head over the fact I had to let go because, not cause he was an ass hole, but because he was sick and had no insight.

[sunrising]

My relationship ended simultaneously with my ex being diagnosed with BPD and starting therapy.    She asked if we were finished.   I replied "I'm not saying the relationship is over, but there are parts of it I will no longer participate in".  That was a message i had conveyed to her a few times over a week or so.  Specifically, I told her I would no longer be guilted or threatened with our relationship.   That discussion never continued, she moved out, and has been in therapy for a month.   As was the case virtually any time I tried to have a mature conversation with her, the result was mysterious to me.  I honestly can't say I broke up with her (as evidenced by statement above), but I suppose if you asked her, she'd say I did.   My therapist described it pretty well. Her response to me saying: "I'm not saying the relationship is over, but there are parts of it I will no longer participate in" was (a silent) "I can't do that".  

[gina louise]

Maryiscontrary,

My HUSBAND did some pretty strange things the last week we spent together. He got up one morning-sat in a chair and calmly told me, "I had a dream my brother told me I was crazy, so maybe it's really true"

That was the nearest he came during months of erratic behavior, to admitting he had any issues, and it was prompted by a dream! He looked so different when he said that to me. Like he was completely in another world, inside his head.

A very blank expression. Vacant. Dead behind the eyes.

He was driving recklessly, getting naked in the backyard, and had shoplifted some small food items that he pocketed in a grocery store. In addition to all the yelling he was doing directed at me! Very bizarre behaviors.

The raging seemed to focus him, he said at one point it felt "good" to scream at me and act out. That hurt me terribly.

But I understand it as part of his illness. I desperately wanted to "save the HUSBAND I knew" from before.

But he's been gone... .  absent from the marriage and from me for months- and he's still furiously angry with me.

So D. it is.

He still claims that it's all he can do to hold it together and get to the office. I believe it, too.

I was very disturbed and confused by the things he did-they were off the charts abnormal, to my mind.

I am so sorry this illness-whatever it is-affects their lives so terribly. It wrecks people.

GL

[Maryiscontrary]

Thanks both of you.

How utterly tragic with these situations. These are hard core psychotic episode. I am not sure how a person can over the grief of these things. You can split them black and just dismiss them as crazy loons, but that does the situation no justice. You can give up on humanity... .  you know... .  what's the point in being loyal if it almost gets you killed by a person out of his mind.

Then again, my ex had extreme trauma that nobody should ever go though, and nature tortures him with malignant anxiety and nervousness so great that it drove him to what I believe will be his death.

Life ~s on you, and if you are not really, really careful of digesting the trauma, you perpetuate more trauma not only on yourself, but your closest loved ones. What a cruel joke by god.  It is like nature is telling us to insulate ourselves, as trauma tends to really screw a lot of people up irreperallly.

I know what Job and king Solomon must have felt.

[forgottenarm]

How many relationships here ended when an explicit and repeated request for help was ignored, and you had to enforce this boundary?

That was my situation exactly.  And then, after I left, he proceeded to make a series of manic, off-the-wall life decisions that have landed him in a very, very deep hole.  I keep hoping he'll hit bottom and finally reach out for help.  Not because it would change our outcome--that ship sailed long ago---but because I hate to see him suffer and cause so much suffering because of this crummy disorder.

[Maryiscontrary]

Forgotten, yes when you think of the implications of having attachment issues, like perhaps a 20 ish or so less years in lifespan, on average, the shock of digesting this will take you to your knees.


We are with people so self hating, that they find ways to destroy and off them selves with a huge implication for not only the quality of life, but the quantity of days as well. It's like exposure to trauma hits a doomsday button in some people,  and there is a self annilahtion spiral that happens, unless comprehansive interventions and realizations are made.

Your personality can make a huge difference in how long you will live,

[GreenMango]

Your personality can make a huge difference in how long you will live,

Very true.  And most times who we pick as a partner can shape our lives for good or bad.

These are hard lessons to learn.  There are many ways forward from here too.  There's a real opportunity to have the life that you really need and want... .  and to not be struggling on a long, rocky road with someone who isn't able to meet those needs and dealing with emotional or mental health issues they don't want to come to terms with.

Either way I'm hoping for a calmer, brighter future for you.

So where to from here?

[Maryiscontrary]

Right now, being a player... .  aka FWB is in my future. No serious relationships whatsoever.

Reluctance to ever have a man legally or financially bound to. Terrible to say, but I want to be able to kick a dysfunctional mans Butt to the curb without it affecting my home or financial life.

[GreenMango]

Right now, being a player.

  I appreciate the honesty!

Why let a dysfunction person in in the first place ... .  save yourself a step in the process of not having to kick someone to the curb.  Just sounds like something one could avoid all together.

So what's the plan in finding more healthy people even if it is casual and not serious?

[gina louise]

in the long run, all we can do is save ourselves.

Detach with love-it's so hard to leave when things fall down this way. the self sabotage was just incomprehensible.

You pray that the person with the PD will listen and pay heed to someone else, something else... .  before it's too late.

I still believe in the comfort and security of significant r/s and/ or marriage with the right person.

but it will be hard to trust, find that and relax into it- for a long time.

GL

[Maryiscontrary]

Right now, being a player.

  I appreciate the honesty!

Why let a dysfunction person in in the first place ... .  save yourself a step in the process of not having to kick someone to the curb.  Just sounds like something one could avoid all together.

So what's the plan in finding more healthy people even if it is casual and not serious?

Well, because some people pretend to be healthy, hide a lot of red flags, and do a 180. So, the best offense is a good defense... .  proverbial Teflon coating.

The best insurance is to never, ever, ever let a man get his fingers in my financial or legal matters.  Every single man... .  and this includes foo, has damaged me. I see major warning signs, but I am still working on discriminating perceptions.

So far it is working. If a guy is going to be an assclown, his ass is kicked to the curb. Funny, I have gotten a lot better respect since telling some of my boyfriends with bad behavior, that I was not going to be around  poopoo in any manner. And I keep them out of my legal and financial affairs. And it seems to be working.

[Maryiscontrary]

You know, I was very upset when I wrote these last few posts on this thread. These posts I wrote seemed to be a bit male bashing. You know, it's not about males. I will never llet anybody, regardless of gender, to have dealings in my legal and financial life.

I think I have some real perceptual problems at seeing red flags. Like, I see holes in the continuity of my consciousness when It comes to reading people at certain levels.

And I know I am highly paranoid and so called eccentric because of this deficit. Sorta in the Steve jobs personality type, but I like to think less ruthless. I am so scared of tripping and falling into a really bad place, and having to depend on someone.

One thing is that it seems like I have a lot of people around me that like to screw me over. This includes my family, who was always angling to get something. for nothing. They are all highly manipulative. Always looking for a mark. I have formed boundaries, because of this board, for walking out at the first sign of this in anyone. Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's rain. Judge judy.

My life has been made unstable because of the family around me having legal access to my financial assets and other things. I am responsible and trustworthy, never stolen, loyal to a fault, and these people just treat it like crap and steal and lie to me.

I have to form a boundary to protect myself from other peoples toxic habits, which are often so hidden that it takes a while to really manefest.

My FOO is extremely toxic to be around. Stuff I thought were normal behaviors in people and families, is actually very unhealthy to be around.

[mango_flower]

Not me.

I wish it had happened that way, as I would at least have felt that I had some control -

In fact, she just started getting sadder and sadder and staying away with work more and more, I knew she wasn't right but tried to be supportive and we never once talked about splitting up - it honestly didn't cross my mind!  I thought we'd be together forever.  We had marriage and babies planned, and I was secure enough in the relationship that I just gave her the space to work her head out... .  

Bad move - now all I hear from her (and she's moved 3 hours away!) is "You never cared! You never loved me! You never fought for me!" *sigh*

So sorry you had to go through this.  Must be heartbreaking and gut-wrenching x

[gina louise]

I really think my HUSBAND became delusional and was able to keep much of what he suffered under wraps.

He tried to deal with it internally-and finally he couldn't and it spilled out, onto me.

I was really afraid. For myself, for him-who knew what he was capable of?

he seems OK. he's functional- but not well, by a long shot.

it's so hard. Complicated. Difficult.

Mary- you have the right to be upset, and frustrated and angry.

You deserve to have some walls built up!

We want to believe that our partners would never destroy us.

But their self sabotage takes others down, too.

GL

[Maryiscontrary]

I detach with compassion, as I know his life was pure hell.  I will never get close to someone he does not have good regulation of his limbic system, which is just about everyone.


Gina, my god our situations sound similar. He struggled to play it straight, but he could not hold himself stable for court, even though he was clean shaven, sweet faced, and had his suit on.

I mean I am not sure if our significant others would have been able to digest if they had dissociated and killed us. I can see hIm keeping my dead cold body around, and not even understanding that I was dead. This is how far this went. You can't have a meeting of the minds when a person gets into that state.


Gina, do you ever fully understand how you could have gotten killed by a potentially criminally insane person. Do any of your very close loved one realize what real danger you were in?

[Maryiscontrary]

He thinks I am angry with him, and this is the reason I don't communicate with him. I could never get it though his head that I was scared ~less. He could not detect the difference between anger and fear in me.

The SET methods had only minimal effect. He thougT I was being facetious when I tried telling him he was scaring the crap out of me. He wouLd then lapse into hallucinations and paranoid delusions. I would validate the agony. I told him I knew how bad he was hurting, but I just could not get through too him.

My brother the bigshot dumped him in my lap, and bailed. He knew he was so negligent to risk my life and his state bar card. coward.

So when a person, especially a man, negates my concerns, I literally turn around and walk out. This is a sign of a major screw loose.

[gina louise]

Maryiscontrary

When I said I was scared, he mocked me, mimicking my wavering voice!

and continued his rage even worse.

That was the moment he reminded me of Jack Nicholson in The Shining, and I KNEW I had to get out of his path, his life and the marriage. his "arguments" during a rage were eerily like the rants of Nicholson in that movie.

Now-when he still blames me- to make it "right" internally for himself- I realize what totally different Universes we lived in.

and it still saddens me to see the loss.

SET never worked, but often validation did-only at the precisely right time.

otherwise, it didn't work.

GL