it was her looks, that's about it

[Depression = 72% of members]

not once have I ever read someone complaining that there ex too attractive or too sexual.  Mostly its the *surprise* stuff like why does this person cheat, why do they play emotional games, why do they rage... .  but Damn if they aren't hot.

Sometimes that prize ain't much of a prize when you see what a person really is about-with or without BPD. 

But finding that balance of attractive for you, matching values, etc can be a quest.

Do you think it will change how you date?  What you will be looking for in a mate?

I previously thought I was fairly discerning when choosing a mate.  Now I have become even more careful.  I live in a place with a lot of attractive women and felt I could tell incompatibility pretty quickly and not just fall for looks.  My ex taught me that sometimes it can take quite a while for that character to come to light.  I thought she was "different" than all the others -- down to earth, friendly, loving,intimate, satisfied with simple living -- and indeed she was different, but in a bait and switch kind of way.  "Thank you" to the women who give off the bad vibe right away!  I'd rather know in 30 seconds than in 2 years!

The subtleties in a person's behavior... .  pay attention to them.

[struggli]

not once have I ever read someone complaining that there ex too attractive or too sexual.  Mostly its the *surprise* stuff like why does this person cheat, why do they play emotional games, why do they rage... .  but Damn if they aren't hot.

Sometimes that prize ain't much of a prize when you see what a person really is about-with or without BPD. 

But finding that balance of attractive for you, matching values, etc can be a quest.

Do you think it will change how you date?  What you will be looking for in a mate?

I previously thought I was fairly discerning when choosing a mate.  Now I have become even more careful.  I live in a place with a lot of attractive women and felt I could tell incompatibility pretty quickly and not just fall for looks.  My ex taught me that sometimes it can take quite a while for that character to come to light.  I thought she was "different" than all the others -- down to earth, friendly, loving,intimate, satisfied with simple living -- and indeed she was different, but in a bait and switch kind of way.  "Thank you" to the women who give off the bad vibe right away!  I'd rather know in 30 seconds than in 2 years!

The subtleties in a person's behavior... .  pay attention to them.

[healingmyheart]

I know you guys are visual creatures and looks are very important... .  at least maybe more important than it is for women.

My ex BPD was extremely handsome and had a great physique.  He is a triathlete and had an amazingly toned, athletic body.  You would think the sex would have been the best sex I've ever had... .  well, it wasn't.  Although the sex was good and spontaneous it definitely wasn't the greatest.  The thing is the sex seemed to be more about HIM and his needs, not necessarily mine. 

Actually the best sex I've ever had was with a boyfriend who was short, bald and pudgy.  He was the most giving lover I've ever had.  I still sometimes think about him and our great intimacies. 

I guess all I'm trying to say is that having a beautiful ex BPD with a great body doesn't necessarily translate into multiple orgasms.

[trevjim]

I know you guys are visual creatures and looks are very important... .  at least maybe more important than it is for women.

My ex BPD was extremely handsome and had a great physique.  He is a triathlete and had an amazingly toned, athletic body.  You would think the sex would have been the best sex I've ever had... .  well, it wasn't.  Although the sex was good and spontaneous it definitely wasn't the greatest.  The thing is the sex seemed to be more about HIM and his needs, not necessarily mine. 

Actually the best sex I've ever had was with a boyfriend who was short, bald and pudgy.  He was the most giving lover I've ever had.  I still sometimes think about him and our great intimacies. 

I guess all I'm trying to say is that having a beautiful ex BPD with a great body doesn't necessarily translate into multiple orgasms.

I agree, however when you have the sexiest lover youve ever had, and the most initmate all rolled into one, then it becomes intense.

[sunrising]

I agree, however when you have the sexiest lover youve ever had, and the most initmate all rolled into one, then it becomes intense.

I agree that it SEEMED we shared a high level of intimacy, but I've begun questioning what intimacy really means to me.  I think it has been easy for me, in the past, to mistake physical intimacy for emotional intimacy; the latter being infinitely more important, and the general absence of it being the root of many problems I had with my exwBPD.  From what I've come to understand bout BPD, pwBPD are generally incapable of true adult intimacy.  I'm reading Erich Fromm's "The Art of Loving".  Fromm asserts that true love is something much more than physical attraction, romance or this "mysterious, inexplicable" thing which is often depicted in movies and songs.  He believes it must be worked toward.  I'm coming to agree with him as I read more.  One thing I know for sure already, is that it didn't exist in my relationship with my exwBPD.

[goldylamont]

... .  I'm reading Erich Fromm's "The Art of Loving".  Fromm asserts that true love is something much more than physical attraction, romance or this "mysterious, inexplicable" thing which is often depicted in movies and songs.  He believes it must be worked toward.  I'm coming to agree with him as I read more.  One thing I know for sure already, is that it didn't exist in my relationship with my exwBPD.

in my case i'm not sure exactly how if feel. i did start the thread to talk about the taboo subject of pure physical attraction, i think it's healthy to leave no stones uncovered and investigate all these aspects of myself and the past. i'm a bit stuck though--i'm not ready to say that there was no "true love" with my ex. yeah, it sucked when it ended, and i saw a totally new side to her the last few months and especially after our r/s ended... .  but i feel that both of us did the best we could to try to hold it together. i definitely wasn't perfect and i strongly feel she is BPD and this caused humongous strain on our r/s. but, i'm not going to go so far in my case to say it was all this illusion/lie that we were both living out for 4 years. i never felt rushed into the r/s, it took us 2 yrs to move in together, there were many heartfelt things we did for each other that i feel were done out of love and not manipulation. all holidays were spent together with families and i was never separated from my friends (other than distant women friends from say high school or college who i avoided to my annoyance to avoid fights).

sunrising, i totally agree that true love is something that must be worked towards, and in my relationship it didn't last eternally. but, this r/s was the longest r/s i've ever been in and the most committed i've ever been to anyone, and the same goes for my ex. although she tried to paint it all black like everything was a waste of time and i was such a terrible person to her after our break, i distinctly remember an argument where i told her "well you can sit here and act like you wasted 4 years of your life, but I LEARNED a LOT. I got a LOT out of this r/s, i eat better b/c of you, i like big dogs now b/c of you, and now i know that i actually prefer being monogamous and waking up to the same person. if you haven't learned anything from me then you're pretty stupid, b/c you could have learned plenty from me. that's your loss and your fault, don't put that on me." for once, she just didn't reply, what could she say?

i may have gone a bit off the topic of physical attraction--but to round things out please don't think that this is all that i'm about. but i am finding out that this is really important to me, and sometimes i'd rather not care so much. sex on the other hand, good sex is simply a requirement for me in any healthy relationship, even casual sex for me isn't good unless i really like the person. sorry but that's a baseline requirement for me and to be specific, it wasn't the sex that kept me with this person, i mean it was great but i've had just as good/better sex with others... .  although perhaps looks played more of a part than i'd like to think... .  

[healingmyheart]

See, that's where I'm thinking men and women are very different.  For me, sex has very little to do with looks.  A man turns me on by making me feel secure and loved.  It doesn't matter what he looks like.  I have a very dear girlfriend who she and her husband have been there for me through thick and thin for literally years.  Her husband is the most committed, loving, caring man I've ever met.  He is also around 300 lbs.  I could be attracted to him just based upon the fact that he is a loyal husband and father.  Of course me being the health conscious person I am, I'd probably encourage him to lose the weight but that's another whole story. The point is sex is an intimacy which is much more than looks.  I think women can overlook a lot more than men can.  Men are very visual and women are very emotional beings.

I also look upon this relationship as a learning experience... .  mainly in my own self assessment.  Yes, I did get more physically fit because my ex is in great shape, yes I did acquire new interests which were ultimately HIS interests but still, it opened my horizons.  There was a lot of good and I will not let the bad negate the good.  I just have to remember the bad so I don't go back.

[sunrising]

I agree with what you guys are saying.   There were definitely times in the r/s with my exwBPD which seemed intimate.   But isn't BPD  kind of defined by the fact that a pwBPD is, emotionally, a child?  As I've learned more about why my ex acted the way she did (the good and the bad), I have very much come to believe this is the case (she's a child, emotionally).   She was very physically attractive (to me), and most certainly had the body of a woman. But if she's an emotional child, could we have shared true adult intimacy?  I'm not saying I didn't learn things from her, didn't grow some because of the relationship, etc. I'm just not sure I'm wiling to classify learning, growing, etc from a relationship as the same thing as true adult intimacy.    I'd like to think true adult intimacy is something different, which can't be had with a child in an adult body.  

[goldylamont]

The point is sex is an intimacy which is much more than looks.  I think women can overlook a lot more than men can.  Men are very visual and women are very emotional beings.

this statement is true stolemysoul. i think you may have misread some of my intention though--i'm decoupling sex from physical looks. i also have had better sex with someone conventionally 'less attractive'. sex for me isn't so much about looks, or being super-romantic and the girl being really sweet and nice. for me it's more of a spiritual experience, i'd say openness and passion are the two aspects that are at the forefront to me (more than looks). i will admit though that men tend to be more visual creatures, but i don't think this is any more shallow than things that may turn some women on (status/position, strength/independence, etc.). when i mention physical looks i'm specifically not talking about sex, i'm talking about my own ego an how safe the little guy felt when he thought he was with the most gorgeous (looking) woman in the world. ego's talk a lot of talk but they're big teddy bears, easily hurt and weak at times, so this is something i'm looking at in myself, how my ego may be a little too reliant on looks. but not sex (at least for me); two separate things.

There was a lot of good and I will not let the bad negate the good.  I just have to remember the bad so I don't go back.

amen to that! no going back i really like posting here as a place where i can recall many of the good in a safe place b/c i KNOW that wasn't the whole truth of the situation

[goldylamont]

I'm just sure I'm wiling to classify learning, growing, etc from a relationship as the same thing as true adult intimacy.    I'd like to think true adult intimacy is something different, which can't be had with a child in an adult body.  

painful and TRUE, thanks sunrising. ya, i often felt like my ex was acting so childish... the problem being that as an adult (and due to my ignorance) she could inflict more pain...

[sunrising]

ya, i often felt like my ex was acting so childish... the problem being that as an adult (and due to my ignorance) she could inflict more pain...

I'm sure all pwBPD aren't the same, and it seems to me that pwBPD can exhibit different "levels" of BPD behavior.  But I'm very confident my ex has BPD. She was also diagnosed, which of course helps.   She definitely handled adult situations like a child anywhere but work (she is high functioning). For example, We never truly resolved a single issue in our relationship, that I can recall.  I would try to discuss things rationally, like and adult, and it NEVER worked.   I can honestly say I never "got to know her" any better in over 2 years.  I came to predict her behavior a little better, but didn't get to know her.   Getting to know someone better, and love them for who they really are, seems to me to be a pretty good working definition of true adult intimacy ("real love". 

[GreenMango]

Awesome posts.  This topic about intimacy is really important.

[healingmyheart]

Emotional intimacy is about making that deep connection with someone.  In my situation, I don't really feel like my ex and i ever really got very "deep".  He just sorta said the same superficial things over and over again.  I don't know if it was because he had his guard up or what but I felt like just reiterated the same stuff over and over.  I think he held so much in that he couldn't release very much of himself.  Hard to be really emotional intimate with someone so distant.

[sunrising]

Emotional intimacy is about making that deep connection with someone.  In my situation, I don't really feel like my ex and i ever really got very "deep".  He just sorta said the same superficial things over and over again.  I don't know if it was because he had his guard up or what but I felt like just reiterated the same stuff over and over.  I think he held so much in that he couldn't release very much of himself.  Hard to be really emotional intimate with someone so distant.

This was my experience too.   My ex would regularly say things that she felt were expressing intimacy, but I could usually use the context clues to determine she was "just saying them" ( they were frequently said at clearly non-intimate times, almost randomly) .  I now pretty much feel like she was saying them for 2 main reasons, neither of which are sincere:

1) She didn't want me to leave (fear of abandonment)

2) She wanted me to say the same kinds of things to her (her needs fulfilled)

This type of behavior would be consistent with my belief she was an emotional child.  I don't think she has a clue what readl adult intimacy is.  I'm just starting to fully acknowledge it myself.   

[nylonsquid]

I was once at a huge dance party and us single boys were scouting. My, very wanted and attractive, male friend was disappointed and said there's no pretty girls. My exBPDgf (before recycle) walked in the front door and he nudged me and said excitedly "oh, God! Check that girl out!" He'd never seen her before and didn't know it was my ex. Case in point.

The funny thing is, when I first met my ex she was NOT my type of girl. However, they ARE charmers and I think that's a big part of their attractiveness to us. Add to that the fact that we have issues of our own that are inclined to pwBPDs and you have a dangerous combo. It really is the vibrations, the unspoken elements that bind us together. Those missing parts in our lives that they can sniff out and provide fillers for.

[Themis]

i know this is really horrible to think about, but i've wondered if perhaps sometimes more physically attractive people are picked as children for abuse? i

Wow, eerie.  But quite possible. Mine looks like a male model.

[jj2121]

Yes definitely, My problem was I got hooked in on her good looks alone and thought I was her knight in shining armour after a month. I should have listened when she told me she was weird and not right. I actually cringe about her personality and character.