War

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I have made some reasonable headway detaching. However I found myself participating in a text war over the last couple days. I had an awful week last week filled with some tragic events. Father sick with cancer. Had to plan his funeral. My stbexBPDw is in my house. I am awaiting divorce. We had 4 dogs. Of course after we separated There were my dogs and her dogs. She didn't want to care for my dogs even though living in my house. The divorce has drug on. She has hired a new attorney. She feels entitled even though only married less than 2 years. She does say she will let her attorney go and just work out details with me if I will maintain a relationship with her. At any rate I am highly frustrated. I had to place my dogs in a kennel, costing a lot, because she refused to care for them. She doesn't work. Over the weekend my small dog got through a fence opening. She was eviscerated by a larger dog. She had a spinal fracture and lost use of her back legs. I had to put her to sleep. Now its not my stbexBPDw's fault, but my dogs could have been at home if not for her vindictive streak. I haven't disclosed to her what happened. At any rate, she has been desparate to contact me. She does non stop. I was weak and engaged. Doing the same arguments. Thinking she may see the light. Sometime she almost does but then not so much. So I wasted two days essentially behaving like her. Being immature. I've got to get it back together.

[lost007]

I have made some reasonable headway detaching. However I found myself participating in a text war over the last couple days. I had an awful week last week filled with some tragic events. Father sick with cancer. Had to plan his funeral. My stbexBPDw is in my house. I am awaiting divorce. We had 4 dogs. Of course after we separated There were my dogs and her dogs. She didn't want to care for my dogs even though living in my house. The divorce has drug on. She has hired a new attorney. She feels entitled even though only married less than 2 years. She does say she will let her attorney go and just work out details with me if I will maintain a relationship with her. At any rate I am highly frustrated. I had to place my dogs in a kennel, costing a lot, because she refused to care for them. She doesn't work. Over the weekend my small dog got through a fence opening. She was eviscerated by a larger dog. She had a spinal fracture and lost use of her back legs. I had to put her to sleep. Now its not my stbexBPDw's fault, but my dogs could have been at home if not for her vindictive streak. I haven't disclosed to her what happened. At any rate, she has been desparate to contact me. She does non stop. I was weak and engaged. Doing the same arguments. Thinking she may see the light. Sometime she almost does but then not so much. So I wasted two days essentially behaving like her. Being immature. I've got to get it back together.

[Rose Tiger]

 :'(  I'm so sorry about Dad and your puppydog, that is so awful.    Can you bring the dogs home and you take over the care and feeding?  She says she will work out details but refuses to help with the dogs?  That's conflicting.

You've been hit with some heavy things, don't beat yourself up for not being perfect.    Are there any plans to move her or you out of house?  Are you considering reconciliation?

[Matt]

Wow, you're dealing with a lot.  Any way that you can deal with one thing at a time - maybe focus on your dad for now and let other stuff wait - might help.

I wouldn't make any deals with her, that involve "maintaining a relationship with her".  If she wants to hire a lawyer, or let him go, that's her call.  Your best chance to get the divorce done is probably to go ahead with the legal process, but be open to a settlement offer if she makes one and if you think it's good, or good enough to talk about.  Don't agree to any delays in the formal legal process, except if you need a break to deal with other stuff.  Making deals with her will keep you engaged, and that's obviously not working.

I hope things go as well as possible with your dad.  I remember when I went through that - it was very hard.

[lost007]

Rose. I am out of the house in an apartment. I let her stay there thinking divorce would occur in a reasonable amount of time. She succeeded in postponing it. She wants me back. She had all 4 dogs at the house. In a fit she took mine to the vet and dropped them off and told me to deal with it. I had to work that weekend so on Monday I took them to a more long term place til I can get the house back. No dogs at my little rental. Interestingly when she realized how she behaved she offered to keep the dogs again. I couldn't trust her and deal with the uncertainty so I had to make arrangements. She feels entitled to what I have. She wants lots of money so this may drag a while. It should have been done this week.

[lost007]

Thanks Matt. There is even more to the story of last week. Just overall bad. Sympathies appreciated.

[Vegasskydiver]

Oh my, you sure have been through a difficult time.  So sorry to hear the news about your Dad.  I am a huge dog lover, so I am so saddened by the news of your dog as well.  I went through Cancer with my Dad last year and my exBPDbf was selfish during the most agonizing time of my life.  He actually painted me black when I returned from my Dad's funeral because he was more concerned to know if anyone hit on me at the airport... .  really?   I have yet to properly grieve for the loss of my wonderful father because of all the ~ my ex has put me through.   Anyway, my heart goes out to you.  If you need to talk or vent you can private message me.  HUGS!

[Rose Tiger]

Oh crud.  I don't know the legalities of who lives where, can you legally have her move to the apt and you to the house?  Trying to brainstorm... .  

[Surnia]

So sorry, lost, to hear about your dad and the dog puppy! 

You are going really through rough times right now!

Sounds like you are in a high conflicted divorce. You recognized it yourself: You had the expectation that she would see the light. I agree with others. Don't try to negotiate with her.

We are here for you. 

[lost007]

Rose. I am trying to get her out of the house. I left two and a half months ago. She was not working. She still hasn't looked for employment. She will try and say that I wanted her to quit work and stay home. It was she who wanted to quit work. So I'm in the middle of interrogatories, etc. I can have an emergency hearing to get her out but we are trying to seem like the reasonable ones. It's just a mess. She doesn't want it. She still thinks I am coming home.  I'm not. Thanks for the well wishes on the dog. She was awesome. Will be missed. Collateral damage as she wouldn't care for her at my house. That I am paying for. Just bitter, angry, hurt now and hoping for some resolution.

[Rose Tiger]

Two and a half months ago, gosh, right before the holidays.  That is really rough.

You've probably heard of the Splitting book but just in case, here is the link:

www.amazon.com/Splitting-Protecting-Borderline-Narcissistic-Personality/dp/1608820254

You are right, you need to be the reasonable one for court.  I've also heard that you don't want to expose her as mentally ill to the court to keep from having to pay maintenance forever.  Yes, the entitled attitude is beyond belief.  I hope she is out and you with the dogs are back in as soon as possible.  It could drag out, I agree with Matt on making your Dad top priority right now.  That is the most important aspect in all of this, the divorce will eventually get resolved, don't let her illness get in the way of you and your Dad.

[GreenMango]

Lost so very sorry about both your dad and the your dog.   

Rose offered a good link to that book and Matt advice on the divorce sound like a good plan.  Do you have some support right now?

[Blessed0329]

Lost, I don't have any advice, just more sympathy. I went through losing my dad to cancer I. 2008. Terrible dragged out torture. That was followed by losing my mother a year and a half later, so I do know how tough it is, without a complicated divorce in the midst of it. We are here for you.

[lost007]

Thank you guys. I really appreciate it. Dad will be gone in next two to three months. My stbexBPDw is just not helping matters. She is offering to drop her attorney if I will maintain a Relationship with her. Says its not about money. But guess what. If I don't respond to her in a manner that indicates I will return to her she changes her tune. And says that she just has to protect herself in the divorce. Her message is simple. Play her game or pay. Divorce was on for this week. She had it post poned. I'm just not sure when it will all end. She is not planning to let go. Just so much to deal with. I have a huge test coming up for certification. I can hardly study. She just interjects herSelf into my life. Maintains these little veiled threats. I'm miserable.

[GreenMango]

It sounds like she's very accustomed to leading this relationship.  And now shes not so she's increasingly doing ridiculous things.

Lost I lived with a lot of these veiled threats and unspoken ultimatums.  It was miserable. Then I realized I was letting a mentally ill person lead.  Once I started taking care of my end and making more decisive moves for myself I wasn't as miserable.  Things even the hard things got easier bc I wasn't riding on someone else's emotional rollercoaster.

It just takes being ready to do it.  I imagine she will push you far enough you'll say enough is enough.

[Matt]

Some of this conversation could be on the Family Law board – maybe a moderator could split it if you want.

Let’s talk just about getting the divorce finished.

What I learned was that the main thing is to get a trial date set.  You can file a motion to get it on the court’s calendar.  I asked for the first available date, and that was about three months away.  My wife’s lawyer responded by asking for a date about six months away.  (I assume she wanted to drag things out to bill more.)  The court split the difference.

Everything has to happen by the trial date.  Make sure your lawyer knows not to agree to any delays without your approval.  It’s likely that the other side won’t bargain seriously til the trial date approaches.  Then things will get resolved quickly, especially if you show the other side that you are prepared to go to trial and win if necessary.

The longer you wait to get a trial date set, the longer the process will take.

[lost007]

Thanks mango and Matt. Yes. I had the divorce on the calendar. She found a way around it. Now I'm getting together all the info for her attorney to examine my finances to she what she can get. Even though she has always assured me its not about money. It's not if I will agree to stay with her. She has nothing. Short marriage but I am a high income individual. We are working to get it rescheduled. She currently has a vehicle of mine that she has driven. Very nice. I need it so that I can put mine in the shop. I text her the request to pick it up. She refuses to let me have it unless I talk to her on the phone. She won't do by text. I'm avoiding phone calls to limit the manipulation. My attorney and hers have already agreed on the exchange so I will have to be back in touch with my atty to circumvent her. She wants this car in divorce. She's afraid if I drive it while mine repaired that she may not get it back. She attempted to text me sexually earlier and I rebuffed it. Guess this is what I get huh. Mango. She is begging me back. Saying I won't give her a chance to change. But her offers are always laced with an-or else. If I do not comply with her requests I get labeled in so many nasty ways. She still can't see that she wants me-but would accept having me even under a hostage type situation. It's sick.

[lost007]

Vegas. I'm sorry for your loss. I don't know how to imagine life without my dad. He has always been someone I have relied on. My stbexBPDw wants to be a rock for me. I don't want that. She nearly ruined my relationship with my parents. Or should I say I nearly allowed her to do so. It's still all about her. However. Her antics are helping me buck up and be more determined to maintain a commitment to be away from her. It's time I got back on track. My life has been turned upside down. Things have happened that I wouldn't have imagined 5-6 years ago. I have become a foreigner to myself. Totally dominated by this woman. Exhausted.

[lost007]

Oh. And mango. I am learning about handling my end. No doubt it makes things work smoother. Even if it doesn't always go my way. I have given her too much power.

[GreenMango]

Emotionally if you are ready then it may be time to make those moves.

Maybe its time to bounce some of these concerns of Matt or the legal board too?  A lot of what's going on could possibly be handled thru the legal end of things.  I'm not experienced in what could or couldnt be though.

Id imagine the property negotiation you want to handle with an attorney.   And start to engage the engine on settling this stuff.

[Matt]

Yeah, as Mango says, sometimes it helps to split up the issues, and focus on the emotional aspects of leaving here on the "Leaving" board, and go to the "Family Law" board to talk through the legal and practical matters.  It might help each subject to get more focus... .  

[doubleAries]

Lost007, your thread has really struck some chords with me. I'm not in the exact same boat situationally, but certainly emotionally.

My stbx is bipolar with psychotic features, ASPD, amd NPD. I owned my property free and clear before I ever met him 18 years ago. On December 1st I moved out to a rental because I can't get him to leave. There have been no shortage of arguments about him leaving and him petulantly saying "that's it, I'm leaving" and then him pretending none of that ever happened at all. He says sarcastically "I never wanted to be the thing that wouldn't go away" but he still won't go away. He doesn't show any interest in clinging to the relationship like your stbx, just my home. And my business. He's attached himself to my successes, not me. And he won't go away.

I moved to a rental 3 months ago. We too had 4 dogs. I had to leave them at my house with him. Now 2 of them are dead. No, he didn't kill them, he just neglected them, didn't tell me that the vet said one had cancer--she had to be put down. He's accidentally lit things on fire there a few times--1st time, burned my business building flat to the ground. 2nd time dumped hot woodstove ashes next to one of the dog houses and it lit a tree on fire. I got it out before it got out of control. Lit the yard on fire with the BBQ.

After moving out, I realize there is never ever any going back to this "relationship". There was no relationship--I made the whole thing up. You can't have a relationship with a crazy person. You have a frustrated relationship with who you'd like them to be.

My plan was to slowly extract myself. He's expecting an inherentance from his fathers death last year (don't know how much) and I have offered to sell him my property. I allowed his entanglement in the business (while he is incapable of a relationship, he is quite capable of working and has done a good job there so long as he doesn't have to interact with others). My next idea is to trade him my property for his interest in the business. Then slip a divorce filing in.

But I see this past week that he is becoming very manic (and irritable) and after 18 years with him, I can tell when the next relapse is going to be mild or not. This one is going to be a doozy. It will, as usual, effect my business. And me. He has a debit card for the business account. He refuses to give it to me. He's parked on my property and bickering about nickels and dimes--while it doesn't occur to him to perhaps pay me rent for living in my house, having chased me out. One of my best friends (that he hates--like he hates everyone, but especially her) was just diagnosed with stage 4 breast cancer. She's far away and I'm trying to be supportive, but I feel like I'm caught in a spidersweb--every time I look away at something else, the web gets tighter. And the doozy inevitable relapse feels like impending doom. Every solution I think of seems to slide into a dead end, further into the web.

I'm feeling pretty sick right now. Good lord, what have I done?

So I understand that feeling in the pit of your stomach--I have it right now too.  

[lost007]

Dang double. I have really learned a lot. First of all it is my fault. I saw red flags. I chose to ignore them. I have let myself get in some bad situations with this woman thining that she would eventually see the light. She too has attached herself to my success.  She had a job when we married. She was pregnant as well. She miscarried. She now blames me for her quitting her job. She talked to me incessantly about quitting. I feel duped. She and her attorney will say it is my fault and that I requested her to be a stay at home mom. That was her goal all along. She loves the lifestyle. She threatens me with every thing I have done or said to try and make me stay. I have begged her to just let me settle with her and let me out. She won't. She wants to exact revenge. Now-if I would return to her tomorrow? All this would stop. She would smile and have me at her feet. If she knew that I was only there because I fear what she will do to me and my reputation? It would matter not. She has told me she is comfortable with a r/s with me under those conditions. I asked her point blank,"if you know that I am only here out of fear, that I do not want to be with you otherwise, that I feel trapped and without an escape, are you good with that?"- she said yes.  Yesterday i rebuffed a sexual text and it lead her to send me scathing texts about how im a narcissist. Saying that it's all me. Even though over the last several weeks she has tried to convince me she has changed and she knows it was primarily her. Things are going to blow up here. My livelihood and reputation are at stake. She will not stip until there is total destruction and she doesn't care what the collateral damage is.  I am scared to death.

[Rose Tiger]

I worked with a guy whose wife tried to take him down during their divorce.  She called the boss and told the boss all these horrible things.  Boss was not real impressed, told my coworker to curb his wife or something like that.  These things happen, people out to hurt others, it's reality.  Most folks though are not impressed and it actually increases sympathy for the target.  "You had to put up with that? Dude I'm so sorry!"

It's life, it happens.  You can beat yourself up for getting into this or you can say, ok, it is what it is.  And move forward.  It might cost a big chunk o' change.  It's a painful lesson in some folks are not as they seem.     You are on your way up and outta of this, keep looking forward.  Hang in there!

[Matt]

Dang double. I have really learned a lot. First of all it is my fault. I saw red flags. I chose to ignore them. I have let myself get in some bad situations with this woman thining that she would eventually see the light. She too has attached herself to my success.  She had a job when we married. She was pregnant as well. She miscarried. She now blames me for her quitting her job. She talked to me incessantly about quitting. I feel duped. She and her attorney will say it is my fault and that I requested her to be a stay at home mom. That was her goal all along. She loves the lifestyle. She threatens me with every thing I have done or said to try and make me stay. I have begged her to just let me settle with her and let me out. She won't. She wants to exact revenge. Now-if I would return to her tomorrow? All this would stop. She would smile and have me at her feet. If she knew that I was only there because I fear what she will do to me and my reputation? It would matter not. She has told me she is comfortable with a r/s with me under those conditions. I asked her point blank,"if you know that I am only here out of fear, that I do not want to be with you otherwise, that I feel trapped and without an escape, are you good with that?"- she said yes.  Yesterday i rebuffed a sexual text and it lead her to send me scathing texts about how im a narcissist. Saying that it's all me. Even though over the last several weeks she has tried to convince me she has changed and she knows it was primarily her. Things are going to blow up here. My livelihood and reputation are at stake. She will not stip until there is total destruction and she doesn't care what the collateral damage is.  I am scared to death.

Pretty good summary!

Let me summarize your summary:

* You now understand that things you did, that you thought were right, and/or that she said she wanted - now she is unhappy and will blame you.  You need to disengage so you don't have those conversations - because they won't accomplish anything.  And you need to be prepared to handle those complaints and accusations in the legal process.

And by the way, one part of that - "she is unhappy" - will probably never change.  You're shifting from spending a lot of time and energy trying to make her happy, to a recognition that you can't do that, and (I hope) an acceptance that you just don't have the ability to make her happy - nobody does, except maybe a very skilled therapist.

* You now recognize that some of your choices led to where you are now, and you're taking responsibility for those choices.  Welcome to the club!  Because every one of us here can say the same thing.

* You are reaching to us here, and considering how best to protect yourself from her attacks.  No easy answers but by talking with others who have been through this, you'll be more prepared.

Your summary is scary, but in a good way, because it means your eyes are wide open, and now you're recognizing reality, and learning deal with it.

[doubleAries]

Matt, great practical advice--I'll be seeing you on the legal board real soon.

Lost--I'm scared to death too. I have something I can share that may not help immediately, but can be VERY helpful for the long run.

I spent the past 18 years going back and forth about whether it was my fault or his fault, then divvying up the percentages of fault and weighing them, etc. That was useless. Assigning fault serves the purpose of accepting blame, apologizing, and moving on. But the real question is "why did I do this? WHY did I ignore these red flags? What was I getting out of this?"

I'm beginning to understand myself better. Growing up in an extremely dysfunctional home, I thought all I had to do was grow up and move away and everything would be fine. And in some ways, it was. Except for some childish unconscious belief that I have to rescue and fix some broken person to prove I have value. To "earn" love or something. I can't afford this thinking anymore. Emotionally, financially, or psychologically. I cannot afford to "somehow" wind up in another situation like this ever again. It seemed like I "blundered" into it, but that's not the truth. I selected it and entrenched myself in it. Hell, I wasn't even "in love". I remember making up all kinds of excuses and justifications (many having to do with pity) to coax myself into the "relationship". I recognize the phrase "it's all my fault"--that's the phrase those of us with a rescue complex use to let ourselves know that we really do deserve what we get (punishment and disrespect).

Even though this is a "long term" lesson, it is still actually at least emotionally useful right now. I'm certainly not getting sucked back in. I'm not twisting my head around like a pretzel to justify or make it seem "practical" somehow to stay to save my business or reputation. I don't know how much of my hide will be intact when I finally escape (if truly ever--stbx has stalker tendencies), but I am going to escape one way or another, and while it's terrifying, I also understand that I built my successes, not my husband (in fact, in spite of my husband!). He can take it away perhaps and drain it dry, but he can't build it. If I have to, I can start over and build success again. I know that's the truth, but my self doubt niggles away at me, saying "that ain't so--I'm ruined forever. I somehow got magically lucky to be successful at all once. Can't pull it off again".

If I trade stbx my property for his interest in my business, that leaves me with no money to find another home, a business without a place to be, and an angry stalker on my trail. It boggles my mind that this is actually my best option right now. It makes me bitter and angry. I had to work 3 jobs 20 years ago to purchase my property. I dug out the house foundation by myself with a shovel because I couldn't afford to hire someone to do it. Now I'm in a rental a couple miles away, while my stbx has usurped my home, laying around posting pictures of attractive women athletes on his facebook page to show everyone what he likes.  Others around us are saying "(stbx) seems to be doing pretty well--he seems more upbeat these days" because they don't understand that yeah, he feels "upbeat"--he's at the beginning of a manic phase AND he finally succeeded in taking the stability he wanted while pushing the person who provided it out of the picture. If I say otherwise, I seem to look like sour grapes or something. Because so many others--like myself, 18 years ago--think those with a severe mental disorder are on the same level playing field as everyone else. In fact, I've even had a few people (not so close to the situation) tell me, in a non approving way, "he really needs your help. Why are you bailing on him and stirring the pot?" This sends me into a tail spin, wondering "is that what's happeneing? Is this my fault?" (there's that word again). I'm struggling to learn to see myself instead of letting others define me (because everyone sees something different, and I get lost trying to figure whose view of me is "the correct" one)

Aye-yi-yi. Yeah, I'm scared to death too. At least I have some folks here on bpdfamily.com's to talk to about it, who understand in a way others do not, until their world gets turned upside down by some PD person... .