Question about NC

[mango_flower]

I know NC is supposed to be for US.  To help us move on.

I'm struggling with understanding though -

BPD people fear abandonment.  It's their worst nightmare.

Yet by refusing to reply to their texts/emails, aren't we doing just that?

I feel like I'm just confirming to her that yes, people CAN'T be trusted and they WILL abandon you.

Or is it good for them to have a consequence for their behaviour, even though it isn't intended that way?

This is a genuine question, not a sarcastic comment... .  (it's hard sometimes to convey in writing so just making that clear!)

Thanks

[sunrising]

Sorry to answer your question with a question, but do you feel comfortable with the idea that you can have contact with your ex and protect yourself, emotionally?  

I knew I couldn't do that, so I went NC for a month.   I've exchanged a few emails with my ex in the past week and it hasn't been that difficult for me (nothing very personal and certainly no talk about our r/s).  A few weeks ago, any contact with her would have been a bad idea for me.

As for your concern about her feeling abandoned, I would encourage you to consider how YOU feel.   Is a relationship with your ex best for you?   You didn't create her problems and YOU CAN'T FIX THEM (NC or no NC).

[mango_flower]

Hi sunrising - thank you for replying

I totally get where you're coming from and I'd probably answer the same!

However, I have this weird thought process that says -

"She is so much more broken than I am - I am stronger - I will suffer so that she can be ok".  That's how much I loved/love her.

But I know this is wrong, and linked to low self-worth etc... .  I know it's not the "right" way to think but I can't seem to change my thought patterns on it?

For me, a relationship of sorts (even superficial) is better for me, as I can sleep easier at night knowing she's "ok". (Yes, note the co-dependency here I think!)

The sadness and grief is easier for me to deal with than the anxiety of not knowing she's ok... .  gosh this is so confusing and so tough!

[sunrising]

"She is so much more broken than I am - I am stronger - I will suffer so that she can be ok". 

Sorry to be repetitive, but your suffering won't make her ok.   You can't fix her. 

[grad]

I know NC is supposed to be for US.  To help us move on.

I'm struggling with understanding though -

BPD people fear abandonment.  It's their worst nightmare.

Yet by refusing to reply to their texts/emails, aren't we doing just that?

I feel like I'm just confirming to her that yes, people CAN'T be trusted and they WILL abandon you.

Or is it good for them to have a consequence for their behaviour, even though it isn't intended that way?

This is a genuine question, not a sarcastic comment... .  (it's hard sometimes to convey in writing so just making that clear!)

Thanks

Yes, they fear abandonment.  That's why they always try to control the relationship by pushing and pulling.  They almost always have someone else lined up to fill the void.

Yes they need to have consequences for their actions.  If there are no consequences, they will not respect you.  This is any r/s BPD or not.

No Contact is more to protect yourself and detach.  If they're being vague or distant or pushing you away, no contact is a must.  If they're the one trying to contact you, it's a cat and mouse game where you should never put any pressure or bring drama into the situation because they're already emotionally torn.  This is what I've learned throughout the 6 weeks since my split.

[mango_flower]

sunrising - I get what you're saying... .  I really do.  Like, just cos I am sad it won't fix her life... .  

But the day to day things, like, if she has an awful day and wants to call me to get more closure on our relationship... .  even if I don't want to talk about it, and want to detach from thinking, I'd rather do it if it makes her feel even 1% better... .  

I see how stupid my thoughts are... .  and I hate it.  I just don't know how to change it!  Frustrating!

Grad - yes, she contacts me.  Always when she's feeling unsettled. I push my feelings to one side and try and chat to her, calm her down like I always did.  I am a reassuring presence for her I think. I just don't know if that's WRONG?  Like, firstly I am putting her needs before my own.  And secondly, how will she learn to take care of herself?

My big issue is that I have massive fears about her committing suicide.  And if she were to do that after I'd ignored her, I wouldn't be able to live with myself.  I think I need therapy... .  

It's just difficult to get any free therapy in the UK without getting referred to a doctor, and I work fulltime, so when could I go?  And I have no money to go private now she has left me with all the bills and rent... .  which is why I post here, because at least I can get my thoughts out.

Thank you both for listening x

[grad]

Grad - yes, she contacts me.  Always when she's feeling unsettled. I push my feelings to one side and try and chat to her, calm her down like I always did.  I am a reassuring presence for her I think. I just don't know if that's WRONG?  Like, firstly I am putting her needs before my own.  And secondly, how will she learn to take care of herself?

She's using you for emotional support while she's involved with someone else intimately.  How does that make you feel?  You should probably distance yourself from the situation and not always be available on her whim and decide what it is you want from the relationship.  You can't let her continue to hold you hostage  She has complete control of the situation and is using you both.  Limited contact vs no contact sounds best for this situation, BPD or not.

[RedCandle]

If there are no consequences, they will not respect you.  This is any r/s BPD or not.

ugh... .  THIS! If you read nothing else... .  THIS!

My biggest regret was going back and going back and going back... .  and then being soo shocked that he treated me like his emotional/verbal punching bag EVERY TIME.

My grandmother once told me that "you teach people how to treat you." Its true. They treat you bad? You leave. End of story!

[GreenMango]

You have reasonable fears here mango_flower.  Suicide attempts can be really scary.  And you are right about the abandonment fears and how sudden NC can exacerbate these.

I think its a balance.  If you need a time out to regroup and get a handle on your emotions, not be so vulnerable, and to not react in a destructive way then stating your needs for some time apart is totally reasonable.  We have an article on how to leave that weans people off eachother.

No contact isn't to punish someone or teach them lesson.

Where the dodgy part in no contact is if you hinge your healing on maintaining strict no contact.  It's a poor replacement for detachment.  You could set yourself up relying in it solely.  What if you see the person in passing, they call, email etc and it sets you back to square one in the grief and abandonment stages?  

It also seems that its a good idea to review your value based boundaries. 

[hithere]

I think NC serves two purposes and neither is to punish them.

1. It saves us, saves us from more pain and the opportunity to be recycled.

2. It allows both them and us to move on, they will seek a new victim quickly when they realize they can't lure you back.

If there are no consequences, they will not respect you.  This is any r/s BPD or not.

ugh... .  THIS! If you read nothing else... .  THIS!

I don't know if my BPD was ever able to respect anyone... .  she thought people with a lot of money were dandy but she was too caught up in herself and her chaos to ever respect anyone else.

[TonyK]

Hi there, Mango. I feel for you  

I think I need therapy... .  

That's the best call you could make for yourself, trust me. Begin therapy as soon as possible.

It's just difficult to get any free therapy in the UK without getting referred to a doctor, and I work fulltime, so when could I go?  And I have no money to go private now she has left me with all the bills and rent... .  

I know it's difficult. It's a financial nightmare, actually. Nevertheless, find a way to make ends meet and get into therapy. It will worth the money in the end. See this as probably the best investment you'll get a chance to make for your own life.

All this is just the beggining for something better for you.

[Maryiscontrary]

As it was explained to me on this board, NC is healthy when you have made clear the relationship is over on long hiatus. This is what I did with my spouse.

Now, if there was communication, status of relationship was up in the air, the person did not know, the just cutting someone off is emotional abuse.

[mango_flower]

Grad - yes, she contacts me.  Always when she's feeling unsettled. I push my feelings to one side and try and chat to her, calm her down like I always did.  I am a reassuring presence for her I think. I just don't know if that's WRONG?  Like, firstly I am putting her needs before my own.  And secondly, how will she learn to take care of herself?

She's using you for emotional support while she's involved with someone else intimately.  How does that make you feel?  You should probably distance yourself from the situation and not always be available on her whim and decide what it is you want from the relationship.  You can't let her continue to hold you hostage  She has complete control of the situation and is using you both.  Limited contact vs no contact sounds best for this situation, BPD or not.

It actually doesn't bother me as much as I thought it would... .  I have always seen the emotional connection as more important than a sexual one.  I agree she has control over the situation though, and this doesn't please me!  I just need to work it all out in my head... .  getting so many different perspectives as replies really helps, as I get to see all sides of the story

Redcandle - the issue is that she was never abusive to me... .  in a way I wish she had been, and then I would perhaps feel more justified in ignoring her 

Greenmango - Thank you for "hearing" me   Your post really made sense.

Hithere - that's an interesting (and good!) way of looking at it - that it will help her too - but maybe I need to tail it off gently.

TonyK - I know you're right... .  my life just feels so out of control at the moment, like I can't commit to anything.  Therapy is £30 per hour, that's £120 per month.  I have cut every corner possible - the only thing I could possibly cut back on is a) internet fees (broadband connection) but that'd make me miserable and b) the team sport I do - but that is like therapy for me all by itself - I'd be devastated if I had to quit that!

Now, if there was communication, status of relationship was up in the air, the person did not know, the just cutting someone off is emotional abuse.

That is exactly how I feel, like it'd be spiteful and cruel.  Our relationship is definitely over but we said we'd be friends (I wasn't as enlightened as I am now about BPD!) so I feel like I'd be moving goalposts.

Thank you so much all - your thoughts and feedback really help. xxx

[sunrising]

That is exactly how I feel, like it'd be spiteful and cruel.  Our relationship is definitely over but we said we'd be friends (I wasn't as enlightened as I am now about BPD!) so I feel like I'd be moving goalposts.

When my ex asked if we could remain in contact after the break, I said, "I will say yes for now, but that could change".   I started researching BPD the following day, determined NC was the best bet for ME, and began with NC.   My gut feeling here, mango flower, is that you are holding onto something that isn't good for you.  Changing your mind and deciding to go NC is perfectly acceptable.   The circumstances have changed as you've learned more about your ex's disorder.  When circumstances change, we should make a wise decision about changing as well.  

[waitaminute]

Enduring the BPD rs might mean that we have low self esteem. And maintaining nc might mean that we have finally established a lower limit to our self esteem. This seems to be what psychologists say. And it's probably applicable for a large number of nons.

But in my opinion, as was alluded to in the OP, there can be other reasons why someone endures the pain.It's called love and committment... .  And hope. It takes strength. I believed that I was strong enough. And maybe I was. But , also as was mentioned earlier, my strength could not heal her BPD. And given the nature of the BPD mind, there was no core self that was loving me. It was illusion born of her need to survive. So strong enough or not, it no longer made sense. I wasn't helping her to get better. There was no more hope.

The NC that I initiated was for me. But it was also an unmistakable message to her: let the love and care that she needs come from the guys who she shared her presence with while leaving me alone. Maybe that boils down to me setting a lower limit on my own self esteem. But to me it just seemed fair... .  esteem issues aside.

I'm on this earth to help people. Sorry Psychologists... .  Call it codependence or "rescuer" tendencies or whatever you want. My dying breaths are not going to come with fond memories of how my happy and productive life made me a good and mentally healthy member of society. Your theories are useful for helping me to not give so much that there is nothing left... .  Like running my car without oil. But for me, I will give to those I can help... .  To the extent that it may hurt but not destroy me.