Need validation...

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Sorry to appear needy... .  but I could use some validation here about this idea:

She claimed that her rages and emotional outbursts were caused by the instability in our relationship. As time went on, her rages and outbursts got worse and worse. She claimed they were getting worse and worse because our relationship continued to be long-distance (the fact that I kept it long distance because she would constantly rage at me was never really on her radar as her behavior never got better... .  it only got worse). Regardless, I bought into her explanation that things got worse because I was continually not committing to her.

But here is an alternate version. Maybe this version is more closer to the truth. Maybe her rages and emotional outbursts were made worse because I STOPPED TAKING THE BLAME. I STOPPED TAKING IT. I STARTED TO FIGHT BACK. I would lay down my boundaries. I would tell her that her behavior wasn't OK. I would leave the room if she even started to go down that path. I would tell her that my thoughts mattered, that I didn't have to explain things 5 or 6 times if there was something I didn't want to do. I STARTED STANDING UP FOR MYSELF. I continued to keep it long distance instead of breaking up with her because of the belief that I was causing her behavior by not committing to her.

Now, I've been looking at all this stuff about abuse and emotionally abusive people. I have been reading that if the tactics of guilt, gas lighting, crazy-making that were successful stop to work, then new tactics emerge. The guilt, gas-lighting, crazy making gets stronger. They get worse. They get more outrageous. The rages get worse. The anger gets worse. The intensity INCREASES.

Maybe, maybe that is the answer. It wasn't because I was less and less committed. It wasn't because of the chaos that I created through our continued long-distance which was my reaction to her abusive behavior. It was because I started to stand up for myself. I started to fight back. I started to say no. I stared to tell her I wasn't going to be affected anymore. I told her I wasn't going to participate in the dance anymore. I stopped caring. I let her scream and yell. I wouldn't try to engage. I stopped really trying to argue with her. I would just go numb. I would let it wash over me. I would detach. And her rages got worse and worse and worse. I would start to respond in a measured tone. I would't yell back. I would just ignore. I would leave. I would go back to my home in another country. Maybe she could tell her strategies weren't working anymore. So, instead of being nice to me, she had to raise the bar. And she kept raising it and raising it. And my reaction was to get more and more detached to the point where I literally told her to F*CK OFF.

Anyhow, does this new explanation of the increased abuse make sense? Should this be the way I view it? Not as my fault. Not as my causing it. But as an escalation of abusive tactics because I stopped buying it as my fault. And that if I had moved in with her, it would have gotten WORSE, not better? That it is better to be depressed and isolated and missing her now without her in my life than it would have been had I moved down?

Thoughts... .  PLEASE!

[willy45]

Sorry to appear needy... .  but I could use some validation here about this idea:

She claimed that her rages and emotional outbursts were caused by the instability in our relationship. As time went on, her rages and outbursts got worse and worse. She claimed they were getting worse and worse because our relationship continued to be long-distance (the fact that I kept it long distance because she would constantly rage at me was never really on her radar as her behavior never got better... .  it only got worse). Regardless, I bought into her explanation that things got worse because I was continually not committing to her.

But here is an alternate version. Maybe this version is more closer to the truth. Maybe her rages and emotional outbursts were made worse because I STOPPED TAKING THE BLAME. I STOPPED TAKING IT. I STARTED TO FIGHT BACK. I would lay down my boundaries. I would tell her that her behavior wasn't OK. I would leave the room if she even started to go down that path. I would tell her that my thoughts mattered, that I didn't have to explain things 5 or 6 times if there was something I didn't want to do. I STARTED STANDING UP FOR MYSELF. I continued to keep it long distance instead of breaking up with her because of the belief that I was causing her behavior by not committing to her.

Now, I've been looking at all this stuff about abuse and emotionally abusive people. I have been reading that if the tactics of guilt, gas lighting, crazy-making that were successful stop to work, then new tactics emerge. The guilt, gas-lighting, crazy making gets stronger. They get worse. They get more outrageous. The rages get worse. The anger gets worse. The intensity INCREASES.

Maybe, maybe that is the answer. It wasn't because I was less and less committed. It wasn't because of the chaos that I created through our continued long-distance which was my reaction to her abusive behavior. It was because I started to stand up for myself. I started to fight back. I started to say no. I stared to tell her I wasn't going to be affected anymore. I told her I wasn't going to participate in the dance anymore. I stopped caring. I let her scream and yell. I wouldn't try to engage. I stopped really trying to argue with her. I would just go numb. I would let it wash over me. I would detach. And her rages got worse and worse and worse. I would start to respond in a measured tone. I would't yell back. I would just ignore. I would leave. I would go back to my home in another country. Maybe she could tell her strategies weren't working anymore. So, instead of being nice to me, she had to raise the bar. And she kept raising it and raising it. And my reaction was to get more and more detached to the point where I literally told her to F*CK OFF.

Anyhow, does this new explanation of the increased abuse make sense? Should this be the way I view it? Not as my fault. Not as my causing it. But as an escalation of abusive tactics because I stopped buying it as my fault. And that if I had moved in with her, it would have gotten WORSE, not better? That it is better to be depressed and isolated and missing her now without her in my life than it would have been had I moved down?

Thoughts... .  PLEASE!

[sunrising]

Your experience was very similar to mine and seems pretty typical. My relationship with my exwBPD essentially ended when I "called her bluff" (finally set some boundaries).   She was out of town and trying her usual game of guilting me and threatening me with ending the relationship.   For the first time in 2+ years, I didn't respond by frantically trying to save the relationship.  I calmly told her the relationship wasn't over, but that I wasn't going to participate in guilt/ threats.   The next day, she ratcheted up her tantrum in several ways, including involving her parents and saying "I hope if something happens to me, you'll at least feel a little bad".  I remained calm, and said, "If something happens to you, that will be your decision.   Again, I'm not participating in guilt games".   The next day, she checked herself into a mental facility, where she stayed 5 days and was diagnosed with BPD.  She moved out 3 days after leaving the hospital.  We never discussed our relationship again, though I made it clear I was open to that.

I'd have been overrun with guilt from "sending her over the edge" had it not been for the reinforcement of our couples therapist who assured me I had done the right thing in being consistent with setting boundaries.  

Someone on this board pointed out to me that I did the most responsible and supportive thing I could do for her by forcing her to take responsibility for her own issues.   This made me feel better.  

Setting firm boundaries with your ex may not have the same effect (she may find another object to mirror), but at least you won't be the one continuing to enable her harmful behavior. That's the best thing you can do to help her and, most importantly, for YOU.

[mango_flower]

Agree - my relationship went crazy as soon as I detached emotionally a little and stopped buying into her crazy-making.  I used to do the whole "Oh sweetheart... .  " and lots of cuddles.  I was still supportive towards the end, but lived my own life more I guess.  And she just got worse and worse. 

One email she wrote me in a state of clarity was enlightening - she actually said "I'm not trying to hurt you, I am just trying to get you to show me you love me, I know I'm not doing it the right way".  So I think you have hit the nail on the head.

When you detached and didn't take her rubbish anymore, she felt she was losing her grip on you.  And abandonment fears kicked in, and she ramped it up a notch.  Makes complete sense.

I know it's so difficult to think "what if I'd just done this... .  or that... .  " but you know, from reading stories on here, nothing changes.  You can't keep buying into it forever - they raise the bar higher.

Be honest with yourself - if you'd continued pandering to her every whim, then what? Do you think she would have suddenly been cured?  I thought that, but I'm starting to believe it's not true... .  they set the bar high. You measure up.  Then they move it higher.  And higher.  And one day you fall.  And then you're painted black.

You might have moved in with her, it might have been good for a bit. But then her brain would kick in and make her test you some more.  Maybe you don't do enough around the house. Maybe you are tired after work and don't show enough affection. Nothing you do would be right... .  trust me. 

And by the way - thank you for your lovely reply to me yesterday x

[Somewhere]

Someone on this board pointed out to me that I did the most responsible and supportive thing I could do for her by forcing her to take responsibility for her own issues.   This made me feel better.  

A+

[Somewhere]

Sorry to appear needy... .  but I could use some validation here about this idea:

Well, heavens forbid that someone would be needy of help.   

Sorry?     Not saying anything, but consider that is what this board is for. 

Just giving you that perspective so that you may see how beat down you have become.

About like apologizing for bleeding in the Emergency Room.   

Thoughts... .  PLEASE!

Really?  mho, you may be thinking Too Much, already.

If you believe that you can or could somehow out-manage and out-control Crazy . . . 

Triple C.  You know what that is?

Free Yourself. 

[susanleona]

This is the beginning of detachment, falling out of love.  It is good for us to go through.  They will never understand why... .  

[v123uf4]

johnnyorganic,

My experience was very similar to yours. You are lucky that you didn't move in together before this behavior started. I was newly married and living with my ex when it started. Then I went on for years trying to make the marriage work... .  

[viking11]

sounds very similar to my situation. We live apart and had been seeing each other on weekends only for the most part for the past four years (at least during the times we were actually not broken up) During a recent explosion by her in which she dragged her kids into it my BPDgf told me the solution to everythign was to go get a ring, come to her house make nice with her kids and propose to her. I told her that does not solve anything which just infuriated her more because I was refusing to commit to her which is the whole reason we have our problems. If I would just commit everything would b fine she says. I use to think that being with her in the craziness was beter that being without her and lonely. For the first time in the last four years Im ok a lot of the time,  not all the time but alot of the time if we are not together and I am starting to enjoy doing things with family and friends again.


Viking11

[viking11]

so yea ultimately setting your boundaries helps to keep your sanity I think.

Viking11

[willy45]

Dude. That is EXACTLY the same with me. She kept telling me over and over again that if I was to see her again, I had to propse to her, buy a ring, and everything would work out. She would break up with me and then tell me I was the one breaking up with her. The cycle kept going and her behavior was increasingly abusive. She kept telling me that if I just proposed to her, that evedything would be fine. I kept telling her that I would propose if we could spend 2 weeks without a major blow up, that I would. I can only remember one 2 week period where she didn't blow up at me.

I am pretty sure that is not how a proposal is supposed to go.

Thanks for reminding me about that. I totally forgot that. I stopped trusting her. I couldn't see how she could be so in love with me while raging at me constantly.

[viking11]

Hey johnnyorganic,

yea my time line was three months. I always said if we can last three months I would propose. We could get thru a couple blowups but never more than 2 mos without her completely flipping out and yes she always would break up with me but then tell me I broke up with her.

Viking11

[atwitsend]

She kept telling me that if I just proposed to her, that evedything would be fine. I kept telling her that I would propose if we could spend 2 weeks without a major blow up, that I would.

Never ceases to amaze me how similar our stories are... .  I used the above quote with my exgf verbatim on numerous occasions. Lord know that I definitely DID want our relationship to become permanent, but as time marched on and the length of time between rages became shorter and shorter, I just knew that she/us/we couldn't last. And, boy, was I ever right about that!

To see pics of the old, disgusting guys she's with now, it's apparent that she was just looking for someone to support her financially. I refused to be that guy.