May have gotten the best closure I could hope for...

[sunrising]

My ex was diagnosed with BPD in late January.   I was NC for 4 weeks and then decided last weekend to respond to an email from her asking me a legitimate question. This was probably a mistake, but I felt I could handle it.  This led to a few more emails over the course of last week.  Naturally they got increasingly personal and I shouldn't have let them. I was physically ill for 5 days and only left my house once.  My ex asked me to call her yesterday.   I was lonely and her emails seemed very calm.  I called her.  We talked for 2 hours and actually discussed "us".  She went back and forth between semi-responsible and blaming me for everything.  It was interesting knowing what I know now.   We ended the night later with a couple more emails and I said we'd talk some other time.  A few more emails today, one long one from me where I shared my thoughts on what happened.  I really hadn't done that.  She didn't respond but asked me to call her (she still can't call me, blocked).  I called. We talked for 30 minutes or so.   A little about the past. I cut that off and asked what her expectations were for continued contact.   She told me she just knows she misses me.  I asked her a STUPID question: Do you miss me as a person, or miss having someone around?  A lot of us know what that means, but it's too much for her.  I then got even stupider by suggesting she research trauma bonding.  She didn't rage.  She cried.  Hysterically.  And told me she had to go.   I seriously regret that.   I emailed her 15 minutes later and told her how proud I was of her for seeking and staying in treatment; how I recognized how much strength and courage that took and hoped her family and friends recognized the same.   Her response was amazing. Here's what she said, and what I replied.    I view this as closure and I'm going back to NC a happier man:

Her:

Thank you. I'm going to be well and love myself. I'm sorry I got upset. I'm more fragile than I thought. To even imagine that you don't miss "me" stings so bad. It was my biggest fear that you wouldn't love the real "me".

Before I undo the progress I've made in therapy I have to say and will probably regret it but this probably is not the best time for us to talk. since we both seem to question ourselves I'm sure we'd just make a mess of "us".

I miss you terribly even through all the anger and pain. I want to remember you as the man who loved me not as the the man who was traumatically bonded to me and addicted to some sort of suffering. The thought is just to scary for me to confront. I'd rather just push it aside and forget you even mentioned it.

You always told me that when you make a commitment that you never give up. I guess too much   has happened and maybe you're saying there wasn't anything special anyway? I dont know what your saying?

I think you are a wonderful man and deserving of lots of love.

I love you and miss you.

Always,

"Xxxx"

My response:

Xxxxxx,

What we had was very special.  Not having you in my life has been like a death for me.

And, yes, I miss you.  "Her full name"... .    My favorite thing... .    The yoga dancing, golf club missin',  tractor straddlin', fish catchin, rock climbin', sunbathin', sweet, smart, best nurse in all the land, breath of love that you are... .  

I loved you very, very much.   I've never felt anything like it.  I still love you.  I can't imagine that I'll ever stop loving you.   

But you are right... .    Just because two people love each other doesn't mean

they should be together or be in contact, as painful as it may be.  The end of our relationship was heartbreaking for me and I have healing to do.  When we're in touch, I am constantly wishing things were different for us.  I need to find a way forward by myself if you can't be my partner, and I can't do that while we're in contact.  Perhaps we can reconnect later when we're both in a better place personally.  Until then, I want the best for you.  Please take care of yourself.

"sunrising"

---------------------

Footnote to bpdfamily members: I plagiarized part of that last paragraph from someone here who offered it as a suggestion a few days ago. I liked it so much I had it on my clipboard in case I needed it.  To whoever that was, thank you!

[GreenMango]

I tried to get closure too.  No shame there.

This looks like a good example of controlled contact.  It takes quite a bit of emotional maturity to admit this:

But you are right... .  Just because two people love each other doesn't mean they should be together or be in contact, as painful as it may be. The end of our relationship was heartbreaking for me and I have healing to do. When we're in touch, I am constantly wishing things were different for us. I need to find a way forward by myself if you can't be my partner, and I can't do that while we're in contact. Perhaps we can reconnect later when we're both in a better place personally. Until then, I want the best for you. Please take care of yourself.

And you asked for space and time to heal in a very honest and kind way.

Hard stuff here. .

Feeling any better?

[sunrising]

Thanks for the thoughts, GM... .      I feel pretty good today.   For me, forcing No Contact on my ex never felt right.  It wasn't natural for me at all.  It feels much better now that we have agreed it's best.   With that said, I'm surprised I was able to get that agreement; especially without a large dose of anger from her.  I don't think that would have been possible if she weren't in therapy and at least trying to learn some regulation techniques.   Of course that's an assumption on my part, but I knew her typical behavior pretty well.  

It's also worth noting that I've since received 2 more email from her.  One late last night:

"Makes sense. I wish I could be your partner. But I do understand. I'll leave you be. I hope one day we can talk"

And one this morning:

"Now that I'm calm and collected I just wanted to say again that appreciate you talking with me and I agree that communicating at the present in not either of our best interests. I love you."

I have a feeling that these "closure on the closure" emails will die out after a day or 2 if I don't respond.

sunrising

[almost789]

I think they only like to remember the 'good" stuff and don't want to know about the "trauma" bond or anything bad like that. They want to be remembered for all good stuff and thats all.

[sunrising]

I think they only like to remember the 'good" stuff and don't want to know about the "trauma" bond or anything bad like that. They want to be remembered for all good stuff and thats all.

Who would want to be remembered as trauma bonded rather than loved?  I wouldn't.

[GreenMango]

She's probably going to send a few emails as she processes this. 

You asked her for some time that's okay to do. 

[Cumulus]

Hi sunrising, I like the way you phrase it, I may have gotten the best closure I could hope for. And it is good to have a feeling that an end has been put to things, that both parties have spoken and been heard. It sounds like she was very fortunate to have had you in her life. You make her sound like she has wonderful qualities. I hope she is able to find them for herself.

[sunrising]

Hi sunrising, I like the way you phrase it, I may have gotten the best closure I could hope for. And it is good to have a feeling that an end has been put to things, that both parties have spoken and been heard. It sounds like she was very fortunate to have had you in her life. You make her sound like she has wonderful qualities. I hope she is able to find them for herself.

Thanks, Cumulus!

Obviously I could have shared some negative feelings I have about her, but what would have been the gain from that?  It's not my responsibility to analyze her challenges.  She's in therapy. 

 I feel very fortunate to have had a closure-type conversation that consisted of generally nice things being said.  That couldn't have happened a couple weeks ago because I wouldn't have been able to do it.  I read a lot on here about how much better we fell when we let go of the anger.  Anger is very uncomfortable for me and I feel much better having let go of it.

[almost789]

I think they only like to remember the 'good" stuff and don't want to know about the "trauma" bond or anything bad like that. They want to be remembered for all good stuff and thats all.

Who would want to be remembered as trauma bonded rather than loved?  I wouldn't.

No, I wouldn't either. Mine hated it if I said "you don't care" even though he didn't act like he cared at all. If I said that to him, he'd get all mad.

[sunrising]

No, I wouldn't either. Mine hated it if I said "you don't care" even though he didn't act like he cared at all. If I said that to him, he'd get all mad.

Here's a communication technique I discovered a while back which has made my relationships healthier:

"You don't care" is an accusatory and assumptive statement.  Accusations and assumptions are rarely helpful.

"When you do hit_, it makes me feel like you are not very concerned about my feelings"

- This is an honest, reflective, non-assumption, and non-accusatory way of saying the same thing. My results have been better using this style of language.

Easier said than done in the heat of the moment, but it sure has helped me.

sunrising

[almost789]

I think I would actually say "I don't feel like you care about me" Because the way he acts I honestly don't see how he could. But, he still didn't like it.

[sunrising]

I think I would actually say "I don't feel like you care about me" Because the way he acts I honestly don't see how he could. But, he still didn't like it.

Yea, changing the way you say it definitely doesn't guarantee a better result, especially when dealing with someone who has serious trouble regulating their emotions.   

[GreenMango]

You make a really good point about communication.  It's possible to have a effective communication in circumstances like these.

The staying board has a set of tools that a good for any relationship... .  BPD gf, kids, coworkers, partners.  It's possible to say you need time to heal-it may not go over real well, or you may get great results. 

The point of no contact can be very oversold.  It's a tool that can help you get your emotions under control so you can communicate effectively.  It's one of many tools - detachment, boundaries, validation, empathy, etc.

No contact as the sole means to healing is poor substitute to all these tools in combination.  And no contact alone doesn't work so great if later you never truly detached and healed... .  and any contact opens up all the wounds again and you are back at square one in grief. 

You handled it well sunrising.  It does sound like you are doing better and getting to the point where you are seriously looking at your own emotional well being and making it a priority.   

[sunrising]

The point of no contact can be very oversold.  It's a tool that can help you get your emotions under control so you can communicate effectively.  It's one of many tools - detachment, boundaries, validation, empathy, etc.

Thanks, GM.

This is exactly the feeling I was getting after a month of No Contact.  I felt like I was avoiding my problems rather than facing them.  I'm really glad I went with NC for a while because any communication I attempted during the first 3 weeks after the break-up would have been angry and ineffective.  But once I let go of the anger and wasn't AS afraid of not being able to resist recycling, it felt much more natural to me to have limited and controlled contact.  And in a way, I think my exwBPD wanted the same thing I did; not to feel like I hated her and thought nothing but terrible things about her.  She expressed to me that she thought my choice for NC was a punishment to her and that it meant I never thought about her.  It's amazing what people assume without communication, myself included.

I'm not naive enough to think everyone could get this type of closure or have this type of conversation with their ex.  As I mentioned above, I don't think this would have been possible a few weeks ago because I was too angry.  I also kind of feel like my ex was more capable because she's in therapy and at least focused on healthier behavior (whether she has truly "learned" many new skills or not).  I'm most glad that NC wasn't the ultimate goal for me.  It was very unnatural.

[GreenMango]

Youre right it isn't for everyone.  Each person's situation is different.  It may be because you are both in therapy too. 

It worked for you and that's a good thing.

[sunrising]

I saw my therapist today.  She saw things a little differently.  She agreed that the closure was a very good thing and was glad it made me feel better. However, she feels very confident my ex is trying to recycle me (she was our couples therapist).  She also feels that I'm at least somewhat susceptible to being recycled.  My T reminded me of what I already know: My ex is likely to be on her best behavior now, but she's far from "fixed". So, after our conversation today, I'm going back with NC.  Stuck my neck out long enough to get some closure, feel extremely fortunate to have gotten it in a friendly manner, gonna count my blessings, get back to safety, and move on with my life.  

sunrising

[fakename]

for me personally,

if i even feel like i want to have any contact at all with my ex, it'd mean i'm still susceptible to getting recycled.

i believe i shouldn't give 2 ___s about her or anything about her. if someone, guy or girl, treats me like crap, for so long and after so many chances given to them, there's no reason for me to have them in my life in any way. especially if that person is known to manipulate because i know none of even the rare or small conversations i had with that person would be genuine.  

thats just me personally. i should have upheld those boundaries with my ex from the start, just as i had always done with other people in my life.  

i didn't love that girl, i was just interested in fantasy at the time.  i'd much rather have reality. it evolves.

i think it's out of respect for myself, that that girl deserves none of my respect or attention. she doesnt need my pity.

[mango_flower]

That actually made me want to cry... .  

I find it SO tough when they act like that - it's easier when they're nasty... .  

I guess I'm too sentimental!

But yeah.  I am happy it worked for you 

[sunrising]

That actually made me want to cry... .  

I find it SO tough when they act like that - it's easier when they're nasty... .  

I guess I'm too sentimental!

But yeah.  I am happy it worked for you 

I hear ya, mango flower.  I'm taking it for what it is.  I know she's probably acting as good as she can in hopes of recycling me or at least having me as an option.  But I control whether or not that's an option.    Also, my therapist made a good point today. When we judge EVERY THING a pwBPD says as manipulative and dishonest, we're really doing the same thing they sometimes do; seeing them in black and white (black in most cases on this board).  I tend to question if that makes us any better than them.   I could tell my ex meant what she said.  Maybe I caught her at a "good point". Most likely she's intentionally on her best behavior.  Either way, she meant the things she said when she said them.

That doesn't change the fact that she is disordered and, if given  the opportunity, would likely ~ me back in and start the whole painful and demeaning process all over again.  The thing is, it takes 2 to play that game.  I'm not playing.