They really have no empathy

[benny2]

Today I had an incident that really bothered me. A woman that I take care of fell yesterday and did not get taken to the hospital until I got there this morning. Had she called me yesterday when it happened I would have called an ambulance and had her transported right then and there. Apparently the help she had last night did not seem to think it was bad enough to warrent a trip to the hospital, so now she has a fracture very close to the spinal cord. I am very close to her and felt really bad about this whole incident. I vented to my BPDbf and felt as if I was bothering him the whole time. I know the lack of empathy is part of the disorder, but come on. I'm always there for him and it seems as if he is miles away when I need someone to talk to. It just made me even more depressed.

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[AnnaB]

Hey Benny2,

My understanding is indeed that they can't concentrate on others' feelings. If you try to share, it will at best, I find, make them think about something related to themselves, and they'll start talking about that. I was having a bad day today and was trying to explain it briefly to my BPDgf; all she found to say is that HER job sucked and that she was not complaining about it because this is just the way the world is (she actually complains often about her job... .  ). It is very dispiriting and it makes you feel very lonely.

[elemental]

  it's hard.

I wish I had more to say, but probably his thoughts were miles away.

What other support people do you have?

[benny2]

I do have a close friend and others to vent to but I still feel very lonely. Its so hard having someone that is sopose to be significant in your life, seem like their never there.

[boatman]

Hi benny-

I'm sorry. I know how painful it is when a bf or gf doesn't empathize with us and validate our feelings.

I can completely relate to this. My exBPDgf and I are still negotiating the friend zone, which I am grateful for because I don't want to be replaced and cut off by her. If she reaches out to me and tells me she misses me, I reciprocate and validate her feelings. Like clockwork, the next day she switches from the "pull" phase to the "push" phase, acting like she doesn't care if we talk or not. During this phase she usually characterizes us as incompatible because she's "unemotional" and I'm "emotional". The ironic part is that her voice is usually raised when she's telling me this.

Anyway, most related to what you were saying: the push phase most often consists of the silent treatment (on the phone) and extremely flat affect (emotions) on her part. On the surface it seems like apathy, which is triggering to me because I'm dying inside. If I call her out on it, suddenly she becomes emotional   and will almost always say, "I don't know what you expect me to say!" At this point I hurt even worse because her lack of empathy and expression (perhaps more aptly put as silent rage) has now become my responsibility. I'm supposed to tell her what to say. Of course this is a no-win situation because I want her responses to be spontaneous and heartfelt, but keeping quiet about it breeds anger and resentment.

Sometimes the whole thing just stinks! Can you relate to any of this regarding lacking empathy and expression?

[benny2]

Oh yes Boatman, I sure can relate, especially to the silence on the phone and the complete disinterest in the conversation. Mine also cylces through the push pull thing very rapidly. One da y I'm the best and he wants to be with me and the next, its like pulling teeth to get an once of affection. Its very disturbing, but it does help that I know now what is wrong and its not my fault. For the longest time I could not figure out why he was rejecting me and I would ask him about it often. He would only tell me "its not you, its me." Now I know he was telling me the truth about that, but its so hard being pushed away from someone you want to be so close to. I am a very affectionate person and have so much to give, why not give it to someone that is capable of recieving?

[boatman]

Hi benny-

I can relate to the feeling of loneliness you spoke of before. I too remind myself that the push/pull isn't my fault, but it still hurts like hell. My exBPDgf has also told me that it isn't my fault, that it's her problem. The problem is that when she's in the moment of pushing, she's blaming everything on me and contradicting her statements about it not being my fault. Very hard to trust and believe her because of this. What do you do to deal with the push/pull?

[Rockylove]

Today I had an incident that really bothered me. I am very close to her and felt really bad about this whole incident.

I'm so sorry this happened, benny2~~it must be very difficult to be in that position.   

I have often found that my bf will ask me about how the job went, but if I say anything more than it was a good day or it didn't quite go as well as I'd planned his eyes will glaze over and he suddenly develops some ache or pain.  I cannot elaborate too much~~especially if it was a bad day.  He'll say something like aww... .  my poor darlin' or something equally as trite.  I'm used to it.  I know that there are people in my field that will listen to me gripe about a bad day because their spouses/SO's don't understand it and will gripe to me.  I find it best to just let that part be what it is and not think too much about it... .  he doesn't have it in him and therefor I can't have that expectation.

[j4c]

Hi Benny. How do you think your bf would have reacted to your story had you told it in front of one of his/your friends or family? I ask this because my ex showed very little empathy throughout our r/s when we were alone, but in front of others she'd actually go out of her way to make it look like she was really caring & compassionate. 

[benny2]

Boatman, I have learned to let him be when he is pushing me away. In fact, I feel that coming on right now. Hes not calling me as much, short unsignificant text messages, just one of his moods again. It really hurts, but like I said, I know now its him and in a week or less, he will be all over me again. Before I would ask him, whats wrong? What did I do? Are u changing your mind about things again? But now I just let him come to me. I'm not sure if its the right thing to do, but in order to save my own sanity, its better for me. It seems when I question things, it just made it worse. He told me a little over a week ago, he wants to be envolved with me and open his heart up to me, now nothing. I just don't know how much more I can take. I feel like I am wasting my life.

[benny2]

And oh yes j4c, he would act diffently around his family. Now, he has'nt even let any of them know we are soposably back together.

[Rainey]

   i know that awful loneliness you are talking of.  What makes it so terrible is the fact that you want someone to REALLY listen, you want that someone to be the ONE who hold closest to your heart, and there  they are! Physically right there! But not emotionally.

This sounds sick and twisted... .  But what if I asked my BPD to simply pretend or put on an act of empathy while i pour out my concerns of life and relationships?

[benny2]

I don't know about yours rainy, but mine is not very good at acting. I can see right through it.

[Rainey]

I guess that's the twisted part 

I can see right through him, but if he can pretend well, then, so can I?   :'(

At least he is being cordial? And appears to be interested in your story and how you feel? How is your friend anyway?

[benny2]

Not sure yet. They transfered her to a bigger hospital about an hour away and did a bunch of tests last night but the doctor has not seen her yet. Thanks for asking.

As far as him being interested in my story. No he has'nt even called me. Just text messages and nothing of much concern. I feel the push thing going on again. He honestly does'nt even realize when he's doing it. I don't bring anything up anymore because I never know how he's going to react. Its so difficult.

[Rainey]

   I guess that's why we are here? on this site? It helps to know someone understands and cares. Positive energy is going out to your friend right now 

[boatman]

huh  i know that awful loneliness you are talking of.  What makes it so terrible is the fact that you want someone to REALLY listen, you want that someone to be the ONE who hold closest to your heart, and there  they are! Physically right there! But not emotionally.

Hi Rainey-

I can relate to the loneliness you speak of. When my exBPDgf is in the push phase she often seems emotionally empty and distant. When I point out her distance she usually replies, "I'm right here!" She just doesn't get it.

As far as him being interested in my story. No he has'nt even called me. Just text messages and nothing of much concern. I feel the push thing going on again. He honestly does'nt even realize when he's doing it. I don't bring anything up anymore because I never know how he's going to react. Its so difficult.

Hi benny-

I'm sorry he isn't providing the support you need. I agree that a pwBPD often doesn't realize he/she is pushing/pulling. My exBPDgf and I had a great weekend, which meant that on Monday she was in full push mode. When I tell her how much it hurts me her usual response is, "I understand". She will RARELY do anything proactive to make it better. So, I have to either accept that it's going to be this way and deal with my own feelings of rejection and abandonment or leave. It's overwhelming to have the entire relationship resting on my shoulders. After her push away behavior on Monday (which she won't admit to) I told her I needed some space to heal (like no contact for a week or so). She has told me many times she wants space, BUT when I give it to her, like I did yesterday, she tells me she doesn't understand what she did wrong and that I'm making a mistake. It's like asking someone for an apple then being surprised when you get the apple.

Boatman, I have learned to let him be when he is pushing me away. In fact, I feel that coming on right now. Hes not calling me as much, short unsignificant text messages, just one of his moods again. It really hurts, but like I said, I know now its him and in a week or less, he will be all over me again. Before I would ask him, whats wrong? What did I do? Are u changing your mind about things again? But now I just let him come to me. I'm not sure if its the right thing to do, but in order to save my own sanity, its better for me. It seems when I question things, it just made it worse. He told me a little over a week ago, he wants to be envolved with me and open his heart up to me, now nothing. I just don't know how much more I can take. I feel like I am wasting my life.

I did the same thing today. Rather than ask her the same questions over and over again about her seemed apathy toward me, I just let it go. The feelings of rejection and abandonment are awful. What do you do to deal with the feelings when he pushes?

[MammaMia]

Unless the subject involves them and THEIR feelings or needs, it just does not register in their brain.  They do not care. Sometimes, pwBPD will ACT interested, but their body language, glazed eyes, and need to constantly change the subject to them gives them away.  It is truly an ACT.   

Sadly, they just cannot relate to the emotions of others.  I believe they feel that we either overreact or underreact to everything.  Therefore, they are not interested because of the drama or lack of drama.  The only REAL emotion is what they are feeling.  No one else matters.

We can try to think like they do to anticipate how they will react or just share

minimal information.  That means others in your life are a necessity.  This website is perfect for that.  We understand what you are going through.

[daylily]

I'm so sorry benny.     It's times like these where it becomes so clear that we are in a relationship with someone who is mentally ill.  We chug along during the times when we don't need as much support, almost feeling like things may be somewhat normal, then BAM!  When we need it most, they just can't be there.

With my uBPDh, it goes beyond disinterest and into anger.  If I am in any sort of weakened state, he gets upset about it.  It's almost like it's a threat to him because his feelings and problems are supposed to be in the forefront.  The same thing happens when I'm sick.  He focuses in on how me being sick or upset is adversely affecting him.  The only time I see empathy is when it's something that he perceives to be his problem as well.  For example, if someone does something to disrespect me, he becomes angry along with me, but only because he feels they are disrespecting him too!  Then, of course, he wants to take some extreme action to get revenge against the person, not for disrespecting me, but for disrespecting him.   

I hope your friend recovers soon!  She's lucky to have someone like you taking care of her.

  Daylily

[AnnaB]

All that is written here feels so close to what I know. The loneliness that results from it is indeed crushing. I'm starting to feel that there are no reasons for me to sacrifice myself to... .  I'm not sure what. Most of the time, I feel lonely, discouraged, unloved if not hated, and depressed. I still keep hope thought, like battered women do, that things will get better... .  So I've decided for now that I will try to find other people that I can have a close relationship with and that will provide me with what most people need: affection, attention, understanding. I have no intention of breaking up with my BPDp, and I'll keep my new friendships to myself. I am slowly dying inside and will just keep doing so if I don't do something just for myself.

[Rainey]

   AnnaB

I hear ya!

My BPDl and I have been livinf together almost a year now.   The things we talked about then... .  ie. our goals, our dreams, our relationship... .  It has ALL changed!  FOR HIM!   Now the ONLY person I wanted to be completely open and honest with just CAN'T!        He wants to, but he can"t   :'(

When you stated that " you will try to find other people to have a close relationship with and mentioned to keep it from him it struck me hard.  I wonder if that is what I need to do? ANd if so, why am I with him if I can't have ALL I want from the same person?  Do I want afairytale relationship with that one special person that doesnt REALLY exist, because  WE DON'T LIVE IN A FAIRYTALE WORLD!

despite the BPD traits, the bipolar, AND the addictive personality this man IS someone special. Really REALLY and TRULY a cool dude   

Benny

I think this is called the WHAT ABOUT ME stage of realizing where WE stand in this relationship. IT JUST ALL SUCKS!  decision Decisions    ?  "And the most terrible of questions to ask ourself is... .  What is best for me? knowing it could hurt someone else 

[laelle]

Those that say they live a fairy tales life are not speaking the truth.  While the cinderella story is nice, its nowhere near reality.

There is no one perfect person.  We have boundaries, goals and ambitions and those things normally attract people to eachother.  You dont get perfection, but you do get a fair compatibility.

A BPD's idealization and longing for their potential partner has a way of usurping the normal process and we go hills in deep before we even knew what happened.  Only to find out later that is was only a beautiful dream that doesnt have the ability to come to fruition.  We are then left here on this message board trying to figure out exactly what is possible to have and is it worth what we have to give up for it.

Their lack of empathy is like a person who can not laugh.  Its not that they dont want to, its that they dont have the ability to feel that feeling at that moment.  What makes it really bad is that its an emotion that draws others near us or us to them.  If you cant have intimacy than empathy would naturally also be an emotion that is difficult for them.  Its an intimacy emotion.

I hate this disease, but I love the guy.  Will it always be worth the sacrifice?  I dont know.  I will have to wait and see when I get there.

[krista8521]

Hello,

Not sure if this is the correct or true way to handle this, but my BPD Husband is very unsympathetic to any ones Else's situations.

What I do to get him to hear me is to say:

example:

Me-Today at work I discovered that someone I cared about was not given prompt medical treatment and it was serious, this really bothered me.

you know (Husband) it would be like you stopping over at your Ma's and found out she had fallen, hurt herself badly and so and so who were with her, chose to not give her any assistance, not even a call to someone else to consider what to do.

Husband-Now instead of him thinking about this stranger, he is thinking about himself and something that would matter to him.

My Husband seems to get it when I give him a example of "what if it was you."

 

also, his Mother is a Narcissist. Get this, my car caught on fire a week ago, it got out of control and the house almost went up to.

The local paper had a picture of it shown, my MIL clipped it out and mailed it to me unsigned/no return address and it said "haha too bad!" so yes, they can be very thoughtless.  :'(

[benny2]

AnnaB and rainy, I tried dating others when I moved out and he threw me to the curb. It just did not feel right. I was not over him and I realized I was only  doing it for that reason. You really have to end it and know in your heart its over. I even told him of the dates I went on which was a huge mistake. Even though he was telling me to get on with my life that it was over between us, he now brings it up often as if I cheated on him. Of course, theres no mention of what he was doing to me the whole time I was living there with his ex. Its like he does not trust me now. When I have a day off, he calls me and texts me constantly to see what I am doing. I won't even bother with dating again until I am sure. We are taking things slow this time, which is good, to fast never seemed to work for us, but one day he seems really into our relationship and the next a million miles away.

boatman, I am so use to his push/pull now that I have learned to not let it bother me so much. It was consuming me before and I had to accept the fact that this is how it is and not take it personally. It still hurts, don't get me wrong, but I don't think he even realizes when hes doing it. He's either going to come around on his own this time, or I am going to be gone and he knows it, so we will see what happens. I'm really not sure anymore if this is what I want. Life is just to short to short change yourself.

[waverider]

I experience one step on from what you mention. For a long time I thought my partner was selfless and all caring, generous beyond measure. Now that I can see into it more it is quite plain that the majority of over the top interest is pure salesmanship (her background is in sales). The aim of it is to make a show of how interested in someone she is. She is selling her own caring image. Taking non of thei responses in.

Same with generous gestures and generally helping out, they are all headline acts, maximizing received praise for minimal effort.

This is probably partly why they make an even bigger show in front of others. They are selling an image of empathy rather than genuine empathy

I think all you can really do is see it for what it is, find your empathy elsewhere and just accept it for what it is, you are unlikely to change that in th short term