One of the hardest things for me.

[Depression = 72% of members]

The hardest part for me was realizing the whole relationship was a lie. Finding out that she lied about pretty much everything with the exception of her name, her age and what she did for a living really hurt. I was fortunate to get in touch with a few of her ex's and a few of her ex co workers from a previous job. It was shocking to realize the full scope of her lies, that everything that she told me regarding herself and her past was a lie. Absolutely EVERYTHING! I mean she was lieing to me right from the very first date. Here I was trusting blindly thinking I had met such a wonderful woman and it was all a lie. I can not wrap my head around how someone could lie so easily, so much.

You know what thought? The ironic thing is at her age (37) and stage of life... .  she has no choice but TO lie about her past.   

[Dave44]

The hardest part for me was realizing the whole relationship was a lie. Finding out that she lied about pretty much everything with the exception of her name, her age and what she did for a living really hurt. I was fortunate to get in touch with a few of her ex's and a few of her ex co workers from a previous job. It was shocking to realize the full scope of her lies, that everything that she told me regarding herself and her past was a lie. Absolutely EVERYTHING! I mean she was lieing to me right from the very first date. Here I was trusting blindly thinking I had met such a wonderful woman and it was all a lie. I can not wrap my head around how someone could lie so easily, so much.

You know what thought? The ironic thing is at her age (37) and stage of life... .  she has no choice but TO lie about her past.   

[asher2]

Dave... .  I can absolutely relate. This was probably the hardest thing for me to accept/believe since breaking-up. I accept we are over and I accept she is mentally ill. What I still sometimes struggle with (a little over 4 months NC) is how the relationship really was one big lie. It scares me to think I fell for it all. I consider myself a very smart guy... .  very well-educated. Accepting that it was a big lie is still somewhat hard for me to believe. There were parts of our relationship I think were real, but as a whole and overall, it was a lie.

It's funny you posted this because I was just thinking the same thing yesterday. My mind went back to a comment she made (which at the time I did think was odd but like too many red flags, I ignored) after she thought I was cheating on her (I've never cheated in my life... .  projection, I'm sure). After grilling me over if I was cheating on her or not, she said, "I just know how easy it is to lie." When our relationship was over and I discovered all the lies and cheating on her part, it amazed me how easily and coolly she did these things. Even the tears at the end when she realized she was caught... .  I'm not even sure how real those were. If anything, they were tears for herself.

But yes, for me the realization that a lot of it was a lie is still tough to take. I'm working on attributing that to the fact she's mentally ill and just moving forward. But man is it tough.

[Surnia]

Hi Dave

I can relate with it very much. I had a prior relationship which a lot of lies. When you find out it feels really bad. It feels so bad to admit, yes I believed all this things. I was for a long time very very angry about it.

Since than I am not paranoid or mistrusting everyone. However I am not so "blue eyed" anymore. Since than I know there are people out there who are handling "truth" in a different kind of way  .

Back to you: Yes, it is difficult to deal with. It gets better with time and new projects, shifted focus. 

[Suzn]

I'm sorry this is so painful Dave, I get it, I've been right where you are. Not understanding the lies. It's hard to see that there is a possibilty that in her mind what she tells people is real for her. This is her perception. Many people keep things they've done that may shine a bad light on them to themselves, that's not uncomon. Us having blind faith is hard to come to terms with.  

[Cumulus]

I think it was the hardest part for me as well Dave. My xBPDh would often speak in a very cryptic manner, his way of telling me the truth after  lying to me, without me understanding what he was saying. For a long time I wanted to be able to turn the clock back and have just a few days of what had been, that I was able to see with my "new" eyes.

Funny, when we were still together before I found the lies, I would sometimes say to him, I wish I could be in your head for just five minutes.

Careful for what we wish for.

[charred]

Yep it boggles the mind. My exBPDgf went to great lengths to give the impression of being a wonderful virtuous person. She talked about wanting to be a nun, joining a convent... .  but she was a stalker, stood me up when we were to move in together, and was with another guy, got an STD... etc... the reality of her was as far from her stories as you could get. Makes you feel like a fool for falling for it.

My family didn't like her... .  said she seemed phony/childish... .  wish I had given more credence to their impression.

Live and learn

[MakeItHappen]

Can relate, 100%. It sucks and I'm sorry!

When I start to feel this way, I go back to old journal entries. It's all right there in front of me. Why didn't I listen to myself months ago?

As soon as I questioned something about the relationship to her, she would twist it around as though I was crazy or too needy etc.

One time, she went off on me, via a text suggesting I was cheating. I spent 2 hours trying to get back in touch with her to understand what she was talking about. It made NO sense at ALL!

So, it was ok that she threw an accusation out via a text. Then didn't respond back to my calls, emails, texts, skype messages, etc.

Finally, when she did answer the call, I was the ass because I was so upset at her for throwing the accusation out and not taking responsibility for that action. This was the usual when it came to how she spoke to me.

Point being, it was all a LIE. It saddens me to think of it. It angers me to know that I was a part of it and believed it. I too feel I am book-smart, street smart and all around spiritually smart person.

[mango_flower]

The good thing is that you have closure in some ways.

I'm left with a lot of questions.

Unless I go back to speak to people from her past... .  and I wouldn't do that.  As she can be sweetness and light, and she may charm them back into her life one day - and my life wouldn't be worth living if she found out I had "betrayed" her.  These are people I have never met.

I'd LOVE to know though... .  

But then, maybe it's best that my fantasy remains as it was... .  my sweet girl, who was my best friend and other half of my jigsaw... .  I like to convince myself she WAS like that, but THEN she got sick... .  even though I know deep down it's not true.

It sucks, Dave, that you went through that.  It really does.  I'm refraining from throwing out all these wise quotes such as "You'll learn from this!" because I know it doesn't help.

Just know you're not the only one who has been taken for a ride.  You're not alone.

And, I am still hanging on to that hope that I see around here, that things are gonna get better for us all. x

[Wooddragon]

I find this very hard to deal with as well - especially thinking back to the times when things weren't adding up - or looked really really bad "on paper" (and my friends - to the limited extent that I confided in anybody were shaking their heads in disbelief) - I always gave him the benefit of the doubt and refused to believe that 2 + 2 added up to 4 - all because "he says  that i mean so much to him, therefore that could never be true".

I can't forgive this on the basis of mental illness - he functions quite well in the general world & knew exactly what he was doing. Im really angry about it this week & frankly hope that he is sufficiently self aware to realise that he is a monster

[MakeItHappen]

I can't forgive this on the basis of mental illness - he functions quite well in the general world & knew exactly what he was doing. Im really angry about it this week & frankly hope that he is sufficiently self aware to realise that he is a monster

Wondering: Do they really function quite well or is it that we actually saw through the "B.S." on a more intimate level?

The things I read and still, unfortunately see that my exBPD (w/NPD traits) posts makes me think, oh yeah, this must have all been my imagination.

She's really a wonderful woman with so much potential... .  

Ugh.

[Dave44]

I don't know if anyone else can relate to this but there were several lies I caught her in that didnt hurt at all... .  they just down right confused me. These were things she lied about that had absolutely no reason to be lied about? Things that didnt really matter at all! I'll give you two examples...

I had half a bag of pretzels in the snack cupboard. One night after the kids were in bed and we were watching TV I decided to go grab them. As I opened the cupboard I couldn't seem to find them. I knew the kids didn't eat them, they didn't like them as they were a flavoured type. I asked her, "have you seen those pretzels I had in here?". She said "no I haven't?". I continued to rummage around but they weren't there? I KNEW I had put them there - I always put them there. I asked once again, "you sure you haven't seen them? They're not here?". She said "no I haven't. I cleaned that cupboard out today though so maybe I accidentally threw them out?". I said "naaa you wouldn't have thrown half a bag of something out." She said "well maybe I did?" and then proceeded to tell me in great detail how she was throwing out empty boxes and just swiping them off the counter and into the garbage before doing a garbage run. At this point now I don't even want the pretzels, I'm just bent on finding the damn things! I then turned that kitchen UPSIDE DOWN trying to find them... .  they were no where to be seen. Finally I gave up, chalked it up to her accidentally throwing them out and sat back down on the couch. Fast forward 2 and a half weeks to one evening and she randomly says, "remember those pretzels you were looking for that one night?. I said "ya". She said, "I ate them earlier that day while you were at work". I paused with confusion for a second before saying, "you sat there on the couch and watched me tear that kitchen apart for over half an hour knowing the whole time that you ate them? Why didn't you just say that?". She laughed and said "I dunno I thought you would be mad and I was embarrassed". Needless to say I was so confused.

Another time as I was making the transition to move in to her place we had decided I would bring my cable package as I had a better deal. As the time approached I reminded her a few times to mke sure to call the cable company and cancel her services so I could transfer mine. She said it was all done and ready to go. When I called to transfer my services and gave the new address (her address) the cable employee says to me "hmm well she hasn't canceled her service yet she has to call in and cancel it before we can so anything." I said she did call in and cancel it though?". He asked for her phone number (her phone service was with the same company) he brought her number up and said there was no record of her number even making a call to the centre. Long story short he had to contact her and confirm she wanted to cancel all the while while she was adamate she called and canceled it before. Even when I told her there was no record of her number phoning the centre! Once again... .  why?

[Suzn]

Good question Dave. My ex did this sort of thing too, you'll probably read about this sort of behavior here now and then. Here's my best understanding of this, stress is a big trigger for someone with BPD. If she was afraid you would be mad about the pretzels, she was stressed. Remember, BPD is a fear of abandonment/engulfment. It might sound really strange for someone to worry over losing you over a bag of pretzels but that could be very real for her at the moment. And you moving in, big change for her and could be a big stress, that's likely an engulfment fear. There's a logic behind these behaviors it's just hard to see when we are in it. What's important to remember her fears were there long before you, they are not about you, as hard as that is to believe, it's true. 

[Dave44]

Good question Dave. My ex did this sort of thing too, you'll probably read about this sort of behavior here now and then. Here's my best understanding of this, stress is a big trigger for someone with BPD. If she was afraid you would be mad about the pretzels, she was stressed. Remember, BPD is a fear of abandonment/engulfment. It might sound really strange for someone to worry over losing you over a bag of pretzels but that could be very real for her at the moment. And you moving in, big change for her and could be a big stress, that's likely an engulfment fear. There's a logic behind these behaviors it's just hard to see when we are in it. What's important to remember her fears were there long before you, they are not about you, as hard as that is to believe, it's true. 

Good question Dave. My ex did this sort of thing too, you'll probably read about this sort of behavior here now and then. Here's my best understanding of this, stress is a big trigger for someone with BPD. If she was afraid you would be mad about the pretzels, she was stressed. Remember, BPD is a fear of abandonment/engulfment. It might sound really strange for someone to worry over losing you over a bag of pretzels but that could be very real for her at the moment. And you moving in, big change for her and could be a big stress, that's likely an engulfment fear. There's a logic behind these behaviors it's just hard to see when we are in it. What's important to remember her fears were there long before you, they are not about you, as hard as that is to believe, it's true. 

Good question Dave. My ex did this sort of thing too, you'll probably read about this sort of behavior here now and then. Here's my best understanding of this, stress is a big trigger for someone with BPD. If she was afraid you would be mad about the pretzels, she was stressed. Remember, BPD is a fear of abandonment/engulfment. It might sound really strange for someone to worry over losing you over a bag of pretzels but that could be very real for her at the moment. And you moving in, big change for her and could be a big stress, that's likely an engulfment fear. There's a logic behind these behaviors it's just hard to see when we are in it. What's important to remember her fears were there long before you, they are not about you, as hard as that is to believe, it's true. 

Interesting - I never thought of it from that angle. I guess you can't really make an assumption from the "outside" as you never really know what is going on inside their head. Even though they may "look" like all of us it's likely a very different story on the inside. Thanks for sharing that.

[GustheDog]

Same here, man.  This kind of thing would happen all the time.  

She was so afraid to upset/disappoint me that she literally communicated nothing.  Later, of course, she resented me fiercely for all the sacrifices I'd "forced" her to make - which sacrifices I had no idea had ever been made in the first place, nor ever would have asked her to make.

It is a disorder - i.e., *lack* of order, *not* in order, *out* of order.  We might not be perfect ourselves, but we're talking not merely about ordinary flaws/shortcomings but rather a fundamentally different way of experiencing the world and interacting with others.

[Iced]

It was also one of the toughest things for me to deal with as well as one of the things that I value most is honesty in communication and for me, that was/is one of my major and least flexible 'boundaries' when it comes to close friends and significant others and it is also one of my 'deal breakers' in terms of how prioritized the value is.

I don't mind if there is trouble trying to communicate (I have something we need to talk about, but I don't know how, for example, is perfectly and absolutely fine), but outright lying and then even worse, the denial of lying when the truth comes out really bothers me.

In doing some personal inventory and reflection, I recently realized that the lying that had so characterized my last experience with my close friend with BPD (which I never found out about until the end of our friendship) was the thing that I had taken offense to the most and the thing that had ended up wounding me the most and it ended up being one of the main reasons I finally had to initiate NC.

For me, after so long of believing the things they told me (and though we shared mutual friends, I never really discussed anything we ever talked about with anyone else - even our mutual friends), I felt ultimately betrayed - that my trust in them had been broken and that my boundary had been disrespected from the very beginning even though it was something I had established from the beginning and something we had mutually agreed on.

Upon further introspection, I can say that one of the things that upset me the most was the sense of inequity when it came to sharing and communicating and the fact that I ended up feeling very vulnerable because I ended up feeling like I had overshared where they had shared little and what they had shared besides the basics were mostly lies.

Realizing that there was so much unsaid and so many lies said (I only found out when our mutual friends contacted me and more or less had us all sit down to figure out wth was going on when the devaluation was going at its strongest) was really disappointing and I felt like a fool for ever sharing in the first place.

The onus, in the end, is on myself; in the face of such disordered attachment, my expectation was unrealistic even though they had agreed to respect that particular boundary... .  but it didn't and doesn't assuage the disappointment that came and comes... .  but I am also getting over it, too.

A relationship of any kind built on lies is one ultimately not worth having if you value honesty in communication and to realize that a relationship you have built was exactly that - something built on lies - can be devastating as it can feel like your core self - your very foundational values - has/have been shaken and even abused/trampled on with what looks to be little to no care in the world.

On a more positive note, though, I also have an example of a relationship (romantic) with a pwBPD or with BPD-like attachment disorders that was not characterized by this:

I once had a lover who had/still has? BPD and though we had communication troubles, I can honestly say that I honestly feel that together, we really tried and we really worked together to communicate.

We went through therapy separately (initially for different reasons, but we eventually incorporated our relationship into our individual therapy sessions and for both of us, I believe this ended up being crucial in enabling us to communicate better) and though we had a few moments I'm not proud of, in the end, even though our relationship ultimately didn't work out (and there was little to no extinction burst in this case), our ability to communicate still held through and we were able to maintain a friendship that lasted until our lives simply moved us apart of its own course.

[Mightyhammers]

Hi guys

How common is it for BPD’s to lie? Is it a common trait?

[Mightyhammers]

Hi guys

How common is it for BPD’s to lie? Is it a common trait?

apologies, BPD's

[imstronghere2]

Hi guys

How common is it for BPD’s to lie? Is it a common trait?

I've been reading about BPD for 1 1/2 years now and it seems to be VERY common.  I know my exwBPD was pathological meaning it was effortless and she could lie with a smile on her face.  I wouldn't doubt she could pass any lie detector given her.   When I finally accepted the reality of that, it was stunning to see it for what it was.  From the smallest, dumbest things to the really important ones.  I told her once when she was in the hospital and she said "Wait, I'll tell you the truth", I replied "You know why that's not possible?  Your mouth is moving"

[jj2121]

My ex denied she was on this dating site and that her account was hacked, I even sent a screenshot from my phone and said who is that then, she changed the subject.I said I just sent you a picture and then she said what picture? it was unbelievable, I then seen her next day and she still denied it and I even said I don't care we are finished,but I knew she was on chatting for the months we were together.  I said we were only together a few months just tell me the truth, I eventually said swear on your life and your family's it was not you,just to see her reaction,she had a blank look and turned away and said I swear on my life and my family's life I have not been on it. I just laughed in the end.

[apple]

My ex denied she was on this dating site and that her account was hacked, I even sent a screenshot from my phone and said who is that then, she changed the subject.I said I just sent you a picture and then she said what picture? it was unbelievable, I then seen her next day and she still denied it and I even said I don't care we are finished,but I knew she was on chatting for the months we were together.  I said we were only together a few months just tell me the truth, I eventually said swear on your life and your family's it was not you,just to see her reaction,she had a blank look and turned away and said I swear on my life and my family's life I have not been on it. I just laughed in the end.

They will stonewall you to the bitters as they are unable to accept any responsibility for their actions and lack of character !

[lost007]

The inconsistencies to me are as bad as the lies.

[Dave44]

You know what I just realized guys? I can't believe this but I just remembered early in the relationship saying one day, ":)on't ever lie to me ok? Like even about something small and insignificant. If I ever found out you lied to me my trust would be gone." Lol who says that in a new relationship? It's like my sub conscious was trying to tell me something! Of course she replied with "oh of course. Same for me though, don't ever lie to me either." Little did I know she had already told me NUMEROUS lies. Wow, just shocking. 

[healingmyheart]

The lies and deceit are the hardest things for me to accept.  Little lies like throwing a cookie away in front of my daughter and then lying that he did it.  Lying about the big stuff... .  emotional affairs x 3.  Even with phone records thrown in his face he said "Oh, that can't be right, most be something wrong with the bill."  Don't you love how they shift the blame onto anyone or anything except themselves.

When he defends himself in regard to the emotional affair, he says she manipulated him into talking (even though he was the one who initiated the contact) and I ultimately drove him to her so none of the affair was any of his fault. 

Dave, I also made a big deal about trust when we first got together.  My late husband was ill with a behavioral based dementia which caused him to do a lot of bad things in the beginning before I knew what I was dealing with.  I explained to my ex BPD boyfriend that I may have some trust issues after dealing with my husbands illness.  Kinda' ironic I should end up with a pathological liar, isn't it? 

I remember in the beginning of our relationship, sometimes the "facts" to his stories would change when he would repeat them.  I thought that was a little strange but I just wrote off the inconsistencies.  I think when you lie so much its hard to keep your story straight all the time hence the inconsistencies.

Makes you wonder how they know how to turn off and on the lying.  Do they lie at work too?  Do they lie to their children?  Or do they mainly lie about things they are ashamed of such as cheating, etc.

[Dave44]

The ironic thing is in my ex's case at 37 years old she has no choice but TO lie about her past. She wouldn't stand a chance with anyone if she didn't. Sad really as lies will always unravel and the extent of lieing my ex did was mind boggling. With out exaturating the only thing she didn't lie about in regards to herself was her name, her age and what she did for a living. It's a hard pill to swallow... .  

[Wooddragon]

Mine lied about stuff all the time - the best one - when the raging began was "I can't understand what is going on with me - this has never happened before & I think it is because you are so intense I can't deal with it properly"    - at least I can laugh about it now.