non BPD ex- looking for parenting advice around alcohol

[maria1]

Hi parenting board

I lurk on here and use the tips I learn. I came to these boards following a 10 month relationship with someone who I believe to have borderline traits. We are currently NC. The advice I'm after isn't to do with him though.

I have 2 children, a daughter, almost 11 and a son, almost 8. I was with their father for 13 years and we split 4 and a 1/2 years ago. He is not BPD but he is emotionally very immature, lots of magical thinking and some strange behavior. I was and maybe still am emotionally immature and we fitted well together when we were first involved in many ways. When we first got together we both drank but he had the ability to keep going until he couldn't speak whereas I would stop when I felt drunk. His group of friends all drank a lot but they are and were all functioning, have jobs, degrees, children.

When our children came along I reduced my drinking but his continued. I still drank more than I felt to be healthy. We would open a bottle of wine each evening, have half each but then he would open a second and drink most of that. He would always leave some in the bottom so that he could say he hadn't drunk the whole bottle. I started to feel that drinking was affecting my mood and ability to parent (and his and he agreed at times) and we both cut back but his crept back up again. Eventually we split up.

A few months after we split he got together with a woman who was the heaviest drinker out of his circle of friends. She also works at my children's school as the learning mentor. My children tell me she drinks wine every evening but that their dad doesn't drink wine every night, just beer. I try not to ask my children about their drinking; I try to focus on the positives. I don't believe I necessarily have any right to know better than he does and I don't want to be the one who chooses to be in control (codependent/ controlling), he is their father and deserves an equal say. But sometimes his weird behaviour worries me as well as his drinking. For example, when he moved into his new house the back yard was full of dog poo. His response was to lock the back door and leave it. He says he is going to get somebody in to redo the whole garden and it will get sorted then. In the meantime the yard is still full of poo and the kids can't play out there- it would take him half an hour to just clean it up.

My ex and his girlfriend bought a house 3 months ago- we share custody 50/50 although this has never been formally agreed through the courts. I believe that the children need him in their life as much as they need me but I am starting to have concerns that their drinking is so normalised that I'm missing the negative effect it's having on the kids. (These concerns are always rumbling close to the surface) Last night my daughter asked me if her father is an alcoholic and I didn't know what to say.

These are the reasons I think he may be:

I've never known him not drink;

He chose a new partner who is a heavy drinker;

My children made a big deal of him ordering water at a recent dinner out and then going home and telling his partner about it;

He looks awful- puffy face, weight gain and not looking after himself.

Before we split he drank all the time but was always in denial of it being a problem;

I once went to his work and found him with a bottle of wine. He said I was being uptight and it was no big deal;

About 6 months ago my daughter rang me from her grandparents house where they were staying with her father and girlfriend. It was 11pm at night. She was crying and asked me to come and get her. She told me she felt unsafe and she had locked herself and her brother in the bathroom to make the call. I asked why she felt unsafe and where her dad was, she said she didn't know why she felt unsafe, it was just a feeling and that her dad was downstairs with his girlfriend and her grandparents had gone out. I said she just needed to go and tell her dad she couldn't sleep and everything would be fine. She said she couldn't and please could I come and get her (they were staying a 6 hour drive from where I am). At that point her dad got her to open the door. I could hear him shouting at her. I heard him say I better come and pick her up because he didn't want her to come on the trip that was planned and he would just take her brother. Then my daughter's phone went dead. I texted him and said he was giving her reasons to believe she doesn't love him (something she'd been saying, not wise with hindsight) 10 minutes later my ex rang me and was utterly abusive down the phone until I was in tears. I said i didn't understand what had happened but I would come and get the children if I needed to.  He said I made things up and I always had done. He swore a lot, called me lots of offensive stuff. I was shocked.

My children told me later they heard him talking down the phone to me and that later he apologised. He also apologised to me the next day. All I can think is that he must have been drunk but I don't know. During our relationship there were the odd occasions when he acted aggressively/angrily when drunk (kicked over our Xmas tree/ was aggressive to a dog).

So last night when my daughter asked I said I didn't know. I said 'I don't know, what do you think?' She kept asking me and in the end I said I think maybe he has a problem with his drinking. Then we focussed more on his girlfriend's drinking than his. My daughter was saying things like she will stop him drinking and it will all be OK; if he wasn't with his girlfriend he wouldn't drink.

Both children at times express very negative feelings about themselves- they are currently expressing feelings of feeling 'lonely' when at their dad's house. They also keep saying they feel unsafe. I've tried to explore again what that means and it seems to be a feeling of not feeling comfortable in the new environment. But at times they really have a great time there, a lot of the time. For example they all went off to France with a load of my ex's drinking group and his girlfriend a few weeks after the bathroom incident and they had the best time!

I don't know what to do. I am aware that I have codependent traits and am working on these issues for myself. I don't want to be negative about their father or his girlfriend but I don't want to invalidate my children's feelings. Last night I showed my daughter the al ateen questions because she was so distraught and so full of self loathing and desperately looking for answers as to why she feels the way she does (she had a meltdown about hating herself following a tantrum when I asked her to do something she didn't want to do before she asked me about her dad's alcoholism). They both keep saying they don't want to go to their father's house but at the same time they say they have to go and will go because they want to see him and are terrified of upsetting his feelings.

Also the time when my daughter rang me was an extreme- there are a few smaller incidents but they are few and far between eg. he swore at my son last week when he was dawdling getting ready for school. My son said the conversation was putting o his shoes and my ex said:

''F****** hell Jack" My son replied "What's that for?" and my ex said "YOU"

My son has always been the one who seemed to let everything slide off him but he is currently low and his class teacher has said he seems unhappy. My ex doesn't want to acknowledge that both of the find it hard that their 'stepmum' works at the school but last week the teacher said at parents evening that she did think that was hard for my son.

My daughter raised the incident when she rang me from the bathroom when we were talking last night. She said she won't ring me again because she was scared of how her dad responded. What worries me is that it's all OK as long as everybody behaves. But I also worry I am over reacting because most of the time their dad is trying his best to be a good dad.

I'm lost. I've suggested counselling to my daughter several times but she hates the idea.

3 years ago I got mental health services involved for my daughter when she was saying she wanted to die. My ex and I saw a mental health nurse 3 times, not with my daughter. I said I thought my daughter needed us to be more consistent in our approach, bedtimes etc and that she maybe needed someone to talk to away from both of us do that she could express her feelings without worry of upsetting us. My ex said he thought she was over sensitive and a bit dramatic. He also said what a great parent he was basically. During a phone call I told the nurse about his and his partners drinking and that I thought it was a problem. At the last session the therapist suggested I go to a parenting class ( daughter knows how to push my buttons basically) and that we use a reward chart and that my daughters behaviour was normal. My ex actually came out shocked that the nurse had reacted that way. I told him I felt that I did all the parenting and that I was worried about both their drinking. He said he would keep an eye on it.

I do think he has a problem with drinking. I know he is in denial and I know that's absolutely symptomatic of the disease. What I am worried about is how I deal with making this an issue for my children I have got to the point of considering that I need to but can anybody identify with the worry that I am tipping something into protection and drama when my children most of the time are happy and want to see their father? It's almost as if I want something more extreme to happen so that I can protect them? It's never bad enough?

I'm sorry this is a long and rambling post but if it resonates with anyone I'd be grateful for your input. Many thanks

[daze]

I'm sorry you and your kids have to go through this with your exh.  He and his gf definitely sound like alcoholics.  Your kids deserve better modeling of adult behavior than what you listed.  Just because you used to drink more than you thought you should does not mean it is acceptable for your husband and his gf to drink every day around your kids.  No kid deserves to be sworn at for being a kid.

we share custody 50/50 although this has never been formally agreed through the courts. I believe that the children need him in their life as much as they need me but I am starting to have concerns that their drinking is so normalised that I'm missing the negative effect it's having on the kids.

As much as you want their father to be involved in their lives, maybe the shared custody isn't working right now.  Maybe your kids would be better off with a more traditional every other weekend setup until these issues can be addressed. 

My daughter was saying things like she will stop him drinking and it will all be OK; if he wasn't with his girlfriend he wouldn't drink.

My son has always been the one who seemed to let everything slide off him but he is currently low and his class teacher has said he seems unhappy.

As a person with codependent traits myself, it sounds like your 11yo daughter is becoming codependent - thinks she can help her dad not drink and blames his drinking on his gf.  And it sounds like your 8yo son is depressed.  Both kids need counseling and if they don't want to go, you will have to enforce it.

My T said an alcoholic is person who cannot have one drink without setting it down, not finishing it, and not thinking about finishing it.  He says an alcoholic can drink one time per year and still be an alcoholic.

[maria1]

Hi daze- thank you

Yes. I can see the codependency traits in my daughter but I tended before to blame them on me- children of codependents pick up the traits too. This new discussion we had around his drinking was a bit of a revelation for me and a bit scary that she was thinking she could control his behaviour. It's frightening being on a journey of discovery of my own codependency to see it so clearly defined in a child.

They also seem to be walking on eggshells to ensure their father doesn't blow up at them- he isn't BPD but his anger is to be avoided at all costs.

Interesting you say I should enforce therapy? I'm not sure I can do that really but I will contact the GP again and ask for a referal for both of them. I need to be strong.

[daze]

Yes, you have to be strong for your kids.  We all do.  You love your children and you can do it.   

The word enforce is too strong.  Encourage.  She needs help now so that she hopefully will not grow up and be attracted to the same types of relationships and dynamics that we and others on this site attract.

My youngest son (16) has "picked up" some of my codependent traits and we are working through it now as I go through therapy.  He does not want to go for counseling and truly I cannot make him.  My T says that my children will benefit from seeing me becoming healthy even though they are older.  T said I should name the behaviors and they will get it.  I name the behavior in one or two sentences and do not lecture.  It's an ongoing process.



Daze

[maria1]

I've been trying to encourage my daughter for about 2 years! She says she will go but not speak- I wonder if she wants me to take her so the decision is taken out of her hands.

I also think al ateen may help her as there will be other kids there. What she hates about therapy is the idea she has that it means she has something wrong with her- other kids around may validate her just by being there. I'm sort of thinking I don't have to call her dad an alcoholic to get her to a meeting- her dad's partner is very much more obviously one and they have to deal with her.

They need more than I can give I think now but I will carry on giving them what I can and trying to model the good behaviour- it's tough!

[daze]

She says she will go but not speak- I wonder if she wants me to take her so the decision is taken out of her hands.

That's a tough question but it could be that she wants you to make the decision.  Sometimes they want us to make the difficult decisions.  I wish I had when my kids were younger. If she agrees to go for counseling, I hope your GP refers her to someone she can really identify with.  That is so important for all of us, but even more so with a reluctant child.

I understand how she thinks therapy/counseling means something is wrong with her.  There's nothing wrong with her - she's in a difficult situation and could use some outside perspective and help with coping skills.  Alateen would be really good for that and she would know that she's not alone.  So important to know you are not alone!  Alanon has helped me a lot, that's for sure.  And this site too.

All we can do is the best we can do and that can vary by day!

[mamachelle]

Hi Maria1

Welcome to the parent board... .  It sounds like what you are going through is a lot of what others  here experience with a BPD parent in the mix.

I too waited for things to get worse with BPD dad and they did... .  My DD now 13 and16 were seeing their dad EOW and he was becoming increasingly erratic, and emotionally abusive. He did physically abuse my DD now 13 and so we ended up filing a motion to suspend visitation until he went for counseling and supervised visitation after that. BPDdad ended up leaving the state and not complying. There is more to it, than this, but I have been through a similar waiting game experience where I felt I was sending my kids into combat each time they went to see dad. Worried if they did not behave something would happen.

What you are describing though different and more chronic is pretty concerning. You are not over reacting.

All you and daze have been discussing sound good and getting D  and S into therapy is what is needed right now.

I'm a little concerned about your Ds fears about therapy as I think it would help her so much. Get your S in ASAP as well. Both kiddos sound depressed and somewhat traumatized by recent events at Dad's house.

Have you read the book:

"I don't have to make everything all better" by the Lundbergs?

It is a great book and will give you some tools to help validate your D's feelings and concerns about all that's going on with dad, the drinking, the gf, her fears of therapy as well as Dad's behavior.

Have you spoken with an attorney about establishing more formal vistation?

It may be good just to test the waters and see what can be done or needs to be done in this situation moving forward.

[Matt]

Hi, Maria.

Lots of stuff... .  

First my own introduction.  I'm not an expert - oh wait, maybe I am - not a professional but I've kind of been there and done that.  My adult son is a recovering addict - alcohol and other stuff - and my ex (his my other kids' mom) has BPD and other psychological disorders.  The way she treated her when he was little (I married her when he was 18) was probably the biggest contributor to his addiction;  he started drinking at 12... .  

Now he's doing great, and my younger kids - SD23, D16, and S14 - are doing very well too.  Legally I have 50/50 custody with their mom, but in fact the younger kids - they were 8 and 10 when we separated - spend most of their time with me.

Here are some thoughts... .  

First, one layman's definition of addiction is, "If you get back consequences, and you keep doing what brought you those consequences, then you've got a problem."  Not a medical or scientific definition, but if the shoe fits... .  

By that definition, you could say that you ex hasn't had any DUIs (has he?) or lost his job (?), but he is certainly screwing things up a little at a time, and it's almost certain because of the alcohol.  (Or you could say it's because of the underlying problem that leads to drinking.)  So... .  you can't say for sure, but for practical purposes, yeah, he has a problem.

But... .  I like that you started your post by saying "The advice I'm after isn't about him though."  That's the right approach - focus on the kids and how to help them.

A couple of things you can do - either or all.

One is, check out Al-Anon.  You will learn a lot, and you'll get a lot of support.  I haven't been in a while, but my experience was, that if you ever wonder whether there are good and caring people in the world, just go to an Al-Anon meeting, and you'll find the answer.

It's mostly support for you, but I think what you'll learn will help you help the kids too.

Second, I would suggest you find a counselor for the kids.  I talked first to the school counselor, and got a referral from her, so I couldn't be accused of shopping for someone to "take my side".  Don't feel that you have to consult with their father about this - you're doing something for their health, same as taking them to have their teeth checked.

And don't think that taking them to a counselor is to "fix" a "problem" that they have.  My kids were both very healthy in every way.  I took them because they were in a stressful situation - parents separated, mom acting out, and big brother struggling with drugs.  They were fine, but their situation was difficult, and the counselor gave them tools for coping with the craziness around them.

Third, I would suggest you consider filing a motion to clarify custody and make it the way you think is best.  You could include in the motion psych evals and alcohol/drug screens for both parents and other adults in each home.  You don't have to say, "He's an alcoholic!".  You can say, "Both parents drink, and the amount and frequency of drinking, and potentially any other drug use, by any adult in either home, could be a factor the court will take into account."

By having both parents, and other adults in either home, checked out the same way, you'll be fair, and your strategy can be to get all the relevant information out in the light of day.

This may require a "Custody Evaluation" - that's what I did - a Ph.D. psychologist who charged $5,000.  Or it might just be alcohol/drug screens and an objective psych eval like the MMPI-2, which cost $500 each.  Either way, make sure the evaluation is based on objective testing, not just interviews.

You'll need to think hard about what you believe is best for the kids.  Please set aside all the baloney about "fair" and "equal";  there is no reason to believe that 50/50 is best in every case.  It might be the best solution for some kids, but if one parent is healthy and the other parent isn't healthy, or has some other problem that keeps him from being a good parent, then maybe 50/50 isn't best.  Maybe... .  I'll go out on a limb and challenge you a little on this... .  maybe what's best for the kids is no overnights with dad for awhile, and no time with him if he has been drinking.  Maybe spending a few hours each weekend with him, when he is sober, is best, until he has his drinking under control.  (Which does not mean he cuts back.  It means he gets professional help.)

Your daughter's call that night, and the other things the kids have said to you, is them reaching out to you for help.  Please hear that!

[maria1]

Hi Mamachelle and thank you

I will get the book, thank you. I don't feel like they are being sent into combat. I would say that 80% of their time with their dad is enjoyable with 20% not being and that's because 15% of the time they aren't with him (he is working on his laptop) or he is being grumpy or downright nasty 1 to 5% from what I can gather. The thing is, as we all know that it only needs to be 1% abusive to make the 99% OK not OK.

I try now to validate them but could do with more help in this than what I have learned from here. Before I learned about validation I realised it was confusing for them that I was being positive about their dad's girlfriend's behaviour when it was, at times, so obviously far away from my own values. This was becoming very confusing for them. Where I'm slightly lost is that I feel they need slightly more than validation- ie. 'it's not OK for your dad to swear at you'.

I'm so sorry that your kids had to go through what they did with their father.

Matt- thank you

I do think he is an alcoholic. (Interesting how many people have different definitions depending on their own experiences. I was talking to a friend of mine, married to a consultant psychiatrist, happy successful family. She said my ex isn't an alcoholic. She said her father went to the pub every night and had 5 pints and he wasn't an alcoholic. I said wasn't he?)

He doesn't see any consequences to his drinking. No DUIs, he can't drive. He runs a successful business, just. He lives chaotically but he manages it, he's very likeable, puppyish, and he's good at what he does. The business was offered to him by the clients when the company he worked for folded. The clients needed someone they could trust and he was the tech engineer producing the work so they asked him to set up a company. He wouldn't have chosen to run a business otherwise but he's good at it. He's not good at handling stress.

I have decided to go to an al anon meeting this week. There is one in the next town that fits with my current parenting schedule. There is one at the end of my street that would fit in if my daughter (or son further ahead) wants to come in the future when she is older. I have looked at al anon on and off before. Part of what held me back is I don't see any stories from ex partners- everybody seems much closer. I also think I have naturally done much of the detaching- I don't think 'if he would just... .  ' I accept him for who he is but I find it incredibly difficult parenting with him.

I will also go and see the GP about some counseling for both of them and I won't discuss it with my ex. Just typing that makes my stomach flip. I think I may post about that decision in PI because I know that's my codependency kicking in- I can hear his arguments battling me down already. Part of their real tangible problem is that the person at school who they might have taken this problem to (the learning mentor) is actually their dad's girlfriend. I will keep uppermost in my mind that that in itself is causing them problems. (You know anybody else would have gone and got a job at a different school when they started a relationship with the parent of children in the school at which they worked in that role but that's just an aside vent!)

I am cautiously watching the overnights. If I pull back now my children will go through more emotional difficulty in the short term and I am not sure that it is the right move at the moment. I have told them many times that they do not have to go, in fact each time they say they don't want to go I say 'then let's not go'. But they always rally against it. I am aware they will do that and ultimately I may need to make this decision for them. However, I think I need to equip them with more tools to deal with their father's reaction, and everybody else's reaction, which will be enormous. I also am not sure there is enough reason to stop right now but I am 'not sure' rather than certain.

The legal stuff I'm parking for now- I have no money at all. I'm UK so it works a little differently and I'm aware lawyers will tell me whatever I want to hear if they are getting paid. I think I'd struggle a little with her working in the role that she does but the drinking and some of the language she has used in front of the children would make it quite easy for me to argue my case I think. Also I think the 50/50 has always been a struggle for them so young; it tires them. He won't want more than 50 %.

Thank you all so, so much. This is so helpful. This place is just amazing.

[mamachelle]

Hey Maria1

I was out to dinner with my husband last night and swear I was thinking of you. There was a couple sitting at a bar like us waiting to get seated and they looked like they were out for a date. Well, next thing we know, there are kids coming up to them. 3 boys about 13, 10, 8 I would guess. We couldn't tell which or if both were "parents" but they kept drinking and sending their kids back to the waiting area alone. At one point after the dad/boyfriend? had had 2 drinks, he was telling the youngest to go sit next to me, saying, ask that lady over there... .  well, in my area it is illegal for kids to sit at a bar or even near a bar on a bar stool. It was bizarre to watch, but I kept saying wow... to this couple, the drinks are more important than their kids. My H and I could not figure out the relationships because both parents seemed completely disconnected to the kids at least until they had a few more drinks. Weird, and sorry to go on, but it made me realize in your case, that the drinking is more important than the kids to your kids's Dad at least in the current way things are working out.

Just to clarify on the validation part of this... .  

I am still learning about validation so bear with me.

There are ways to ask open ended questions to help your D come to some conclusions and open up about what happened that night in the bathroom and why she decided she would never call you again because Dad got mad.


I would try it when you are driving alone in the car with her and say something like:

You know D, I felt really concerned that night when you called, and I just am not sure I handled it correctly. What do you think was going on that night ?

(notice the What? question)

If that is too sensitive you can open it up to some other thing. The important thing is to get her talking about her feelings and also about different solutions for dealing with her father.

It's about problem solving and empowering her. Allowing her a space to retell some of her experiences should help her to figure out ways that she could communicate with you while at Dad's if she is frightened again. Perhaps texting would be easier. Again let her tell you her emotions don't say, "you were scared weren't you?" because all you will get in answer is a yes or no.

Here is an excerpt of an interview with the Lundbergs from their web site:

Gary & Joy Lundberg:  The rules of validation are:


Listen by giving your full attention

Listen to the emoitons being expressed

Listen to the needs expressed

Understand the best you can from the other person's point of view


You don't have to agree.  You don't have to change your beliefs, you don't have to change

your values. All you're attempting to do is understand from the other person's viewpoint.

You be the unselfish one and do this.  It will amazing how it will improve your relationships

with that person.


Dearest:   You talk about the art of questioning in your book. An example being the question that

has the answer in it like "You are feeling mad, aren't you?" How else would you phrase your concern that

someone is feeling bad?


Gary & Joy Lundberg:  You ask simply, "How are you feeling?"  and let the other

person identify their own emotions.  After they have identified it, let's

say they said, "I'm mad!"  You could ask them "What are you mad about?"  And let

them talk while listen without  trying to tell them what to do.



I realize you have so much going on so I hope this helps some.

Keep posting.

[maria1]

Thank you so much Mamachelle

I went to Al Anon on Tuesday. What an amazing bunch of people. The theme of that evening's meeting was step 4- taking a moral inventory of ourselves.

I actually shared my story. I said that I felt I detached from my ex when we separated really but that my daughter had asked me last week if her father was an alcoholic and that I said I didn't know. I said I had come to taking my PI through a different route. I said that my struggle against being the one always in control of everything makes me worry I can't label my ex an alcoholic and if I do I'm taking a negative step in my children's lives. But if I don't that's a worse step.

It was hard but I felt I wanted to share. I also wanted to cry but didn't. What surprised me is that at the end a woman came up to me and told me she too had started coming when her daughter was 11. She said she had to bring her daughter to sit outside because she couldn't get a sitter but that a member had said bring her in. She said she had also wondered whether her husband was really an alcoholic as he functioned very well. In the end it was her daughter who decided for herself and told her 'Mum, dad IS an alcoholic you know.'

The main message I got was definition doesn't matter- drinking is having an impact. But I just picked something up from his house and saw the number of wine bottles on the surface in the kitchen (about 15-20). I took a peak because my daughter told me that her and her step brother had been shocked by the number of bottles they took to the bottle bank recently. She said that they had asked when they had last been and it was 3 weeks ago. My daughter told me yesterday she has told her friend that she thinks her dad's girlfriend is an alcoholic. She also told me that another friend has told her she doesn't like her own step dad and that he gets too angry sometimes.

I think all this is very positive for my daughter. That she is beginning to feel comfortable (a little) about sharing her dysfunction rather than just wanting to be what she perceives as normal.

I'm still practicing the validation- have been doing since I first learned about it sometime ago. I need to be careful with pushing o the bathroom thing- it happened 6 months ago and I think my daughter knows it crossed a line. I think she is very aware that she could lose access to her father if he slips up. She thinks she can control it all. I need to help her see that she can't. I like the 7 Cs and I'm going to try and gently introduce them bit by bit if I can :-

I didn’t CAUSE it

I can’t CURE it

I can’t CONTROL it

I can help take CARE of myself by:

COMMUNICATING my feelings

Making healthy CHOICES

CELEBRATING me

Some of them are part of every day parenting anyway, others not so easy to get in there but there are more and more opportunities coming up.

Thanks again

[Matt]

Yeah, probably best not to get hung up on the label "alcoholic".  You might be able to find another way to talk about it - "He drinks a lot", "He has a drinking problem" or something else that you believe is true and fair.

It can be very hard for someone to realize and accept that he has a problem.  My son got 3 DUIs within a five-year period, which in our state is a felony, and he went to prison for 4 months - not a nice place, a real prison with orange clothes.  It was very hard for him and he really struggled.  When he got out, he relapsed within 48 hours, and got caught by his probation officer.  While I sat with him, waiting for the PO to get the handcuffs, my son told me, "Maybe I am an alcoholic."  It was actually pretty funny, that he could be so incredibly un-self-aware - it was obvious he was an alcoholic.  But he wasn't kidding - he was really just barely coming to grips with that reality.

It's likely that your ex is still pretty far from that realization.  He hasn't been to prison yet, or maybe even gotten a single DUI (which lots of people who aren't alcoholics get).  For you to take a strong stand on the issue, and insist that he is an alcoholic, may be OK, if that's your truth, but I think it's also OK to step back from the need to apply that label, and just focus on how his drinking affects the kids.

"I think she is very aware that she could lose access to her father if he slips up. She thinks she can control it all. I need to help her see that she can't."  This concerns me quite a bit, because it's exactly what lots of kids of alcoholics do - try to make things OK.  I think you're exactly right - yourself and with help from a counselor, helping the kids to see that this is all about their dad, and they can't fix it, will be a long-term challenge that will help them a lot.

My S14 and D16 are very close to their big brother, and his struggles have hurt them a lot, but I actually think that it's probably a good thing that they aren't around him a lot the last few years.  We all miss him, and we see him whenever we can, but some distance is probably healthier for us all.  Maybe as you go forward you can find ways to help the kids have some distance from their dad, without a big fight... .  

[maria1]

Thanks Matt

I have been wondering if the drinking problem of my ex's girlfriend may take over any issue that ex has at the moment. I don't know if he is anywhere near thinking of his drinking as a problem. In some ways the fact that my daughter and son are seeing her as difficult is a way in to discussing alcohol generally without them taking anything negative about their father.

This week his girlfriend shouted at my daughter for doing gym around the house and shouted at her when she said 'don't call my dad an idiot', apparently.

My daughter tells me little bits but shuts down if I question in any form so I just glean what I can whilst trying to validate. It's a difficult road to walk.

My impression has always been that the girlfriend likes/ tolerates my kids but that she likes her tv and her peace and quiet. From the blow ups she seems to be having here and there in reaction to their noisiness it seems she is struggling to adjust to living with them half the time. But more recently they report to me more unkind stuff that she does. Again it's little things but they seem to be escalating. For example my ex bought my daughter some new clothes. The girlfriend says 'she's got too many clothes (she doesn't have many at all). It's drip by drip negative comments which just aren't necessary.

But none of us are perfect and I don't want to jump on everything she says thinking its not nice. I really want to find a nice side to her and always used to try to be positive but that seemed to just confuse them. They seem happier admitting that they just don't like her. That feels wrong somehow.