I got a call from my ex and I picked up ...

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

This girl is seriously sick and disordered.

Seriously, it's fascinating to see the 'disorder' at work. I need to cut this cancerous growth out of my life.

If this is the conclusion that the events of the past few days have led you to, then it seems like a positive thing.  You have clearly been struggling recently with a great sense of loss, and I think a big part of this detachment includes realizing that what's been lost was not really so great after all.  I can't stand that I lost the person that I at one point believed my ex-wife to be... .  but to have lost the person that she really actually is... ?  Not actually a bad thing, really.

It took me a couple small forays into near recycle-hood to realize this, but I realize it now.  She is sick and disordered, and I am better off without her.  I hate that I still need to share the parenting of my children with her.  I wish I could truly divorce her out of my life and never look back, as you have the opportunity to do.  I don't pine for her anymore... .  other than physically sometimes, perhaps.  She is a mean person and a black hole, and I don't miss walking the tight rope I used to walk - always trying to convince myself that she actually did love me or something.  It's ugly and it's gross, and it's not healthy.  It's still not a great feeling for me now, but it's a lot better than the times I used to feel like I'd do anything to have our old life back.  Perhaps their greatest gift to us is that they do usually give us a chance to see their ugliness, if we are willing to accept seeing it.

How are you feeling now?  Any sense of relief compared to before these most recent events?  Better than before?  Worse?

I feel indifferent.

I've got 3 more days left at work, as I do banking, those are basically 24x3 hours left of work, seriously crazyness, so no time to think.

After that, i've got myself quite the realization to do.

I don't have friends to hang out on a regular basis, meaning, for that I have to start over again. i do have friends to hang out with on a monthly basis.

Other than that, my future path is completely empty. Completely... rather than enjoying that prospect i'm dreading it. Just the fear of not being accepted although I know my self-confidence got an enormous blow due to the BPD dilemma.

[HarmKrakow]

This girl is seriously sick and disordered.

Seriously, it's fascinating to see the 'disorder' at work. I need to cut this cancerous growth out of my life.

If this is the conclusion that the events of the past few days have led you to, then it seems like a positive thing.  You have clearly been struggling recently with a great sense of loss, and I think a big part of this detachment includes realizing that what's been lost was not really so great after all.  I can't stand that I lost the person that I at one point believed my ex-wife to be... .  but to have lost the person that she really actually is... ?  Not actually a bad thing, really.

It took me a couple small forays into near recycle-hood to realize this, but I realize it now.  She is sick and disordered, and I am better off without her.  I hate that I still need to share the parenting of my children with her.  I wish I could truly divorce her out of my life and never look back, as you have the opportunity to do.  I don't pine for her anymore... .  other than physically sometimes, perhaps.  She is a mean person and a black hole, and I don't miss walking the tight rope I used to walk - always trying to convince myself that she actually did love me or something.  It's ugly and it's gross, and it's not healthy.  It's still not a great feeling for me now, but it's a lot better than the times I used to feel like I'd do anything to have our old life back.  Perhaps their greatest gift to us is that they do usually give us a chance to see their ugliness, if we are willing to accept seeing it.

How are you feeling now?  Any sense of relief compared to before these most recent events?  Better than before?  Worse?

I feel indifferent.

I've got 3 more days left at work, as I do banking, those are basically 24x3 hours left of work, seriously crazyness, so no time to think.

After that, i've got myself quite the realization to do.

I don't have friends to hang out on a regular basis, meaning, for that I have to start over again. i do have friends to hang out with on a monthly basis.

Other than that, my future path is completely empty. Completely... rather than enjoying that prospect i'm dreading it. Just the fear of not being accepted although I know my self-confidence got an enormous blow due to the BPD dilemma.

[GreenMango]

How are you doing HK? 

[Whatwasthat]

 Harm


Was wondering how it was all going. What's happening?

WWT.

[HarmKrakow]

How are you doing HK? 

Indifferent.

I regret my weakness that I still occasionally check her out, what is she doing, where is she, who is she talking to and is she having a good time, is she not forgetting about paying those and those bills. However, every time I speak to her, LC is still in place, it's pouring salt in my own wounds, or ... let me rephrase it, it feels like cutting open my arm, then put salt in it. It feels stupid still checking up on her, although she also still wants to remain in contact, however, her mood during the LC is sometimes superbly volatile. Either immensely passionate and then very distant.

I quit my job last friday, because I noticed the 80h a week I was working was purely 'flight' behavior. If I want to get out of this mess, I need some serious confronting of my own. There was 1 really dodgy moment last week where I was very close to pay the piper, literally shouting i've had enough and after hours of contemplating, already finishing the letter of letters, I called my T which calmed me down and prevented me from doing solving a, as you (and he) said, solving a temporary problem with a permanent solution.

I see people around me, and ask them, where do you get your strength from? Or what do you have to live for? Some tell me the moment their brother/sister got a child and they got to be an auntie, or an uncle at my age (25) or got kids themselves and feel like they want to show them something. Or they want to pay back what their parents have given them after years of unconditional love. Or a brother, or a sister who they are helping and have great bonds with. I don't have any of that. Not that I don't have friends, I certainly do have a few life long time friends who I can always rely on, always can give a call and if needed can sleep at their place if necessary. A thing i've been doing last few weeks besides work, but these people also have either full time jobs or busy and they don't live close to where I live. Others put strength out of religion, Islam, Christianity, etc. I am very happy for them and wish I could do so, but I can't. I regret to have studied so much science in my days that I question everything out of pure habit.

Now since work is gone, i'm on my own, at home, actually got the flu so i've been laying in bed all day, basically not doing anything. The only social contact or interaction i've had was a private message from someone here on bpdfamily. How ___ing sad is that? It makes you realize how far i've sunk, no offence, but someone with 25 years old should be able to do better. And although I have this thought from time to time in my head, I don't deserve this. I seem incapable of change, only very slowly, consciously I seem to move myself in the right direction. When I came back from work last Friday it felt like I had to experience the break up all over again. Why? Because alone now ... is again ... alone. As work was basically 80% of my time 7 days a week, the other 20% was sleep.

I've had it with being a whiny b*tch complaining about life and mental pain, it's one the reasons why I wrote my last letter. My dreams have still been out going away. As some might have known, i've gotten to known 2 american tourists in a train when I was heading towards work, both are evangelists/church people and they invited me to America to stay there for a few weeks to 'come to terms with life' rather than being in the sole misery and despair of being home alone in The Netherlands, seeing the walls close in on you and contemplating suicide. I'm not sure yet what to do, I mean, people, I don't even have a plan for 2morrow, I don't have any plans atm.

I regret and feel ashamed of my weakness that I 1) can't cut of that cancerous growth and 2) can't kick my own ass and shout towards myself to WAKE THE F*** UP and start being pro-active again in life. As those 2 things were always the one thing I would tell MY friends when they came to me and shared me their stories...

I seriously hope you guys never have to witness to wake up every night around 2/3 and just literally shouting it out of the pain hoping for it to go away and hope that you won't wake up because the pain is to detrimental.

[LuckyEscapee]

Hi HK

I was wondering how you were going. 

So sorry you are feeling this way. So sorry that it hurts this hard for you.

It is so hard knowing it will get better for you, but knowing that you feel so defeated at the moment. Quitting your job must have been hard on your routine, and your interactions too. It was a big decision to take, so you have already completed at least one big step towards your better future 

What are you doing this weekend? Are you concentrating on getting over the flu?

Feeling lousy with flu isn't going to be helping the situation.

Please look after yourself, stay warm and keep up those fluids.

[HarmKrakow]

Hi HK

I was wondering how you were going. 

So sorry you are feeling this way. So sorry that it hurts this hard for you.

It is so hard knowing it will get better for you, but knowing that you feel so defeated at the moment. Quitting your job must have been hard on your routine, and your interactions too. It was a big decision to take, so you have already completed at least one big step towards your better future 

What are you doing this weekend? Are you concentrating on getting over the flu?

Feeling lousy with flu isn't going to be helping the situation.

Please look after yourself, stay warm and keep up those fluids.

I am mostly drinking tea with lemon and honey, and stories on how people fought suicidal tendencies and depression.

[GreenMango]

You play any video games?  I took my mind off things.

[LuckyEscapee]

HK take GreenMangos excellent advice regarding video games.

Playing a lot of pc games got me through some dark days, as they do absorb your mind in an easy way, create a challenge, bring some small element of ambition into the mix, and while away hours and hours.

Hope the tea is helping. Hope the stories are helping more 

She isn't worth it HK, she really really just isnt worth it. 

I know that getting past this may be the hardest thing you ever have to do, but it will be worth it. 

[me757]

I've found that reading a lot and going to the gym have really helped. Exercising really helps when I feel the depression/anger coming on. I take it out on how long I run. I've been watching a lot of comedic tv shows as well. I'd try to set some personal goals and just work on yourself. One last thing that might really help would be for you to go travel somewhere. I find that traveling and meeting other travelers can be incredibly encouraging. Hope you are doing better.

[HarmKrakow]

You play any video games?  I took my mind off things.

Thats exactly what im trying right now. Trying a few video games and trying to succeed although ive never been much of the gamer. Always felt like it was a waste of time. Things like WoW or anything like that never had my interest especially after i saw pals at high school or uni destroy their social life with it.

[GreenMango]

Not much of gamer here but I got on an Angry Birds kick.  I was an angry bird  .  Burned some down time. 

Of course exercise, reading, vitamins all helped too.  But sometimes just some down time time doing something fun not too heavy thinking.

[HarmKrakow]

HK take GreenMangos excellent advice regarding video games.

Playing a lot of pc games got me through some dark days, as they do absorb your mind in an easy way, create a challenge, bring some small element of ambition into the mix, and while away hours and hours.

Hope the tea is helping. Hope the stories are helping more 

She isn't worth it HK, she really really just isnt worth it. 

I know that getting past this may be the hardest thing you ever have to do, but it will be worth it. 

Getting past this, is by far the worst and difficult thing i've ever done in my life. Tomorrow will be Monday, normally I go to work, now I won't have to.

Every time, I feel suicidal contemplation, I watch this video. www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o80Q4pLvTE

And don't get me wrong I am in good physical shape, I eat healthy, vegetables etc. The bad thing I do is have a bit of vodka/melatonin/temazepam every night to push me towards sleep. I do run and do work out. But mentally i'm just worn out

@GreenMango

I just get annoyed playing that game when I can't get it done :P. I keep it more simple games, games which I know of, that I will pass, level by level

[just me.]

@GreenMango

I just get annoyed playing that game when I can't get it done :P. I keep it more simple games, games which I know of, that I will pass, level by level

haha... . Angry Birds drives me crazy.  It seems like I can hit it in just the right spot, but the stupid birds just bounce off the wooden planks and don't knock anything over.  Stupid birds.

'Apparatus' is really good and interesting.  And 'Cut the Rope', 'Where's my Water', and 'Plants vs. Zombies' are pretty good, too.

Hang in there, Harm.

[HarmKrakow]

@GreenMango

I just get annoyed playing that game when I can't get it done :P. I keep it more simple games, games which I know of, that I will pass, level by level

haha... . Angry Birds drives me crazy.  It seems like I can hit it in just the right spot, but the stupid birds just bounce off the wooden planks and don't knock anything over.  Stupid birds.

'Apparatus' is really good and interesting.  And 'Cut the Rope', 'Where's my Water', and 'Plants vs. Zombies' are pretty good, too.

Hang in there, Harm.

Failure at such a thing isn't making me feeling better . And yeah, as addition to the initial reason I started this topic.

I spoke to my ex again today and I asked her if she paid a debt she had outstanding which HAD to be paid tomorrow otherwise it would go to court(!). She said; "oops, i forgot, and told me she had not enough money on her account'. I was stupid enough to say ... i'll pay okay? I just want this mess to be over with. And then she forcefully told me, show me the screenshot that you paid it (the lack of trust was a needle through the heart).

And yeah, so I feel ~ again so i'll try the games you mentioned.

[Whatwasthat]

So sorry to hear about the flu Harm.

Have you tried mixing lemon juice, honey and some cut up pieces of root ginger - then adding boiling water and leaving that to stand for ten minutes before drinking? It's really good for flu.

Chinese people often boil up root ginger with water for quite some time - maybe half an hour - to make an incredibly powerful and peppery tasting tea which is excellent for any kind of virus. You could try that and then sweeten with some honey if necessary. (There may be some Chinese people here who could actually give you more precise instructions - but that ought to be enough of a guide to make something decent!)

Also have you been able - in a gentle way - to stick to the idea of having routine activities you do each day? They can be really undemanding things that can be achieved even when you're ill - making yourself a nice tea (as you described earlier) would count as the 'pleasure' activity for the day  for example.

One thing I've learnt is that it's small, gentle, daily changes and approaches that can - surprisingly - help most towards solving massive and seemingly insurmountable problems.

You talked about going to stay with friends/family. I know people are busy - so when you get to someone else's house they may not have a lot of time to spend with you. But I still think it's worth going. That could be a good idea when you get over the flu a bit. Maybe schedule two or three different short trips to see people... . making sure of course that you work around your GP and therapist appointments. I did this a lot when I was at my worst. And I can remember sitting on the train to make these trips feeling horribly vulnerable and zombie-like and sometimes not quite sure I could keep it together to make it to the end of the journey. But I did keep going. And being with other people really helped when I arrived. It was good for me I think just to see some different countryside - to be in a less familiar place - to think for a short while about other people's lives. And of course I STILL felt awful and very grim every night as I fell asleep (or tried to fall asleep) - but over time it really helped and the pain slowly lessened.

There is a road out of this - you should never doubt that - there are many people here who can testify to that. But we also appreciate just how horrible it feels - so keep posting because people here really do understand.

[HarmKrakow]

So sorry to hear about the flu Harm.

Have you tried mixing lemon juice, honey and some cut up pieces of root ginger - then adding boiling water and leaving that to stand for ten minutes before drinking? It's really good for flu.

Chinese people often boil up root ginger with water for quite some time - maybe half an hour - to make an incredibly powerful and peppery tasting tea which is excellent for any kind of virus. You could try that and then sweeten with some honey if necessary. (There may be some Chinese people here who could actually give you more precise instructions - but that ought to be enough of a guide to make something decent!)

Also have you been able - in a gentle way - to stick to the idea of having routine activities you do each day? They can be really undemanding things that can be achieved even when you're ill - making yourself a nice tea (as you described earlier) would count as the 'pleasure' activity for the day  for example.

One thing I've learnt is that it's small, gentle, daily changes and approaches that can - surprisingly - help most towards solving massive and seemingly insurmountable problems.

You talked about going to stay with friends/family. I know people are busy - so when you get to someone else's house they may not have a lot of time to spend with you. But I still think it's worth going. That could be a good idea when you get over the flu a bit. Maybe schedule two or three different short trips to see people... . making sure of course that you work around your GP and therapist appointments. I did this a lot when I was at my worst. And I can remember sitting on the train to make these trips feeling horribly vulnerable and zombie-like and sometimes not quite sure I could keep it together to make it to the end of the journey. But I did keep going. And being with other people really helped when I arrived. It was good for me I think just to see some different countryside - to be in a less familiar place - to think for a short while about other people's lives. And of course I STILL felt awful and very grim every night as I fell asleep (or tried to fall asleep) - but over time it really helped and the pain slowly lessened.

There is a road out of this - you should never doubt that - there are many people here who can testify to that. But we also appreciate just how horrible it feels - so keep posting because people here really do understand.

Ginger! Awesome idea, (even had to look up the word in my own language) I know how it looks like and i've bought it before when I lived in London but can't remember the Dutch translation :P

I realize if I want to 'move forward' I need incentive to move forward. An incentive is a meet up or a trip with people. Because the moment you don't do that, as i've done last days, you feel like urges to live are slipping away.

And that feeling you described of being in the train, seriously, that described me to utter perfection. Vulnerable, wondering if you could hold it together ... all of that. And the moment you are there, it feels good again and the moment you hit the train, you feel crap again. I do wonder or might I say worry if quitting my job was the best idea, however as I do think that work didn't gain me anything besides benjamins and short night sleeps I still hope I made the right choice.

However, deep, deep inside me, very deep inside me, it still feels I can make my first real step forward the moment I cut her of completely notifying her what she did to me and that I can't live with this charade anymore.

Btw, that list you made, that list of, boring/new/fun is awesome. i mean that, next time I will see my shrink I will tell him and let him know he should say it to others as it's an effective way of giving yourself(!) the feeling that you did something, although very little sometimes.

[LuckyEscapee]

Hi HK

I watched the video link, and it is really good. Thank you. Also it says it perfectly... . it isn't you!

I am definitely not a gamer, but I found that following a pc mystery game was like putting my brain on holiday. It was interactive enough for my mind not to wander, not hard enough to frustrate me, but seemed to suck me in. I much prefer reading, but I found that I would fall asleep more that I read in the hard early days and that would wreck my sleep patterns. TV made me feel like I was wasting my life.

Walks on the beach or in nature helped me by far the most. I remember taking one really long walk by myself and happened across a river where a mother duck had her ducklings in tow, lots of them, and watched in awe for ages. I sat down, and cried my heart out in the middle of nowhere in utter exhaustion, confusion, and resentment. I eventually wiped my eyes after I heard the birds around me chattering, and the wind blowing the grass, and realised the world is full of simple beautiful pleasures, and I am part of the bigger picture, one day at a time, one day at a time.

I also took sleeping tablets for months too, I figured that I was no doubt better with sleep, so it was the lesser of two evils.

Regarding contact with your ex, why are you bothering? Why are you bailing her out? 

I spoke to my ex again today and I asked her if she paid a debt she had outstanding which HAD to be paid tomorrow otherwise it would go to court(!). She said; "oops, i forgot, and told me she had not enough money on her account'. I was stupid enough to say ... i'll pay okay? I just want this mess to be over with. And then she forcefully told me, show me the screenshot that you paid it (the lack of trust was a needle through the heart).

I would tell her I'd unfortunately changed my mind, as I now don't have a job and have a few commitments coming up myself. That the court will likely be reasonable, and it would feel better to her not to be bailed out by her ex. Then go NC. Block your emails and phone. HK please nail the flamin' windows down and barricade the door if you have to. Hell I wish I lived close enough to bring you the nails

Look what contact with her has done to you so far. And now she wants a receipt! What the fruit-loop?

You seem a great, intelligent, caring guy with his whole life ahead of him. Once you are through the worst of these times, you will look back and shake your head at how bad it was for you. This girl is only out for herself and you deserve better. Much, much, much, much better.

[HarmKrakow]

Hi HK

I watched the video link, and it is really good. Thank you. Also it says it perfectly... . it isn't you!

Interesting video isn't it? I watch it over and over again when I feel suicidal tendencies coming up. Why? Because mostly when you go to friends and therapy you hear, it's not normal to feel depressed, but I like the attitude presented in the video. And I can relate to SO much in the video. Please god, let me die me in my sleep tonight. That thought was so much in my head last weeks, as a simple suicide ofc. is messy and would make other suffer, while dying in your sleep might prevent that. I use the video as my lucky charm in a way. It feels to me as well, that I have nowhere else to run. I can just, SO relate to it, I even feel ashamed for saying it. I also wrote a letter, just didn't send it.

I am definitely not a gamer, but I found that following a pc mystery game was like putting my brain on holiday. It was interactive enough for my mind not to wander, not hard enough to frustrate me, but seemed to suck me in. I much prefer reading, but I found that I would fall asleep more that I read in the hard early days and that would wreck my sleep patterns. TV made me feel like I was wasting my life.

Walks on the beach or in nature helped me by far the most. I remember taking one really long walk by myself and happened across a river where a mother duck had her ducklings in tow, lots of them, and watched in awe for ages. I sat down, and cried my heart out in the middle of nowhere in utter exhaustion, confusion, and resentment. I eventually wiped my eyes after I heard the birds around me chattering, and the wind blowing the grass, and realised the world is full of simple beautiful pleasures, and I am part of the bigger picture, one day at a time, one day at a time.

You know, I have tried that. I do run, I do work out, but I do it for the endorphines, to feel a high. When I stand still, in the middle of nature, and I see the sun, flowers, etc. I get sad, I seriously get sad. I start crying (although tricky atm due to the anti depressants). I can't stand it. I mean it .

I also took sleeping tablets for months too, I figured that I was no doubt better with sleep, so it was the lesser of two evils.

Regarding contact with your ex, why are you bothering? Why are you bailing her out? 

I spoke to my ex again today and I asked her if she paid a debt she had outstanding which HAD to be paid tomorrow otherwise it would go to court(!). She said; "oops, i forgot, and told me she had not enough money on her account'. I was stupid enough to say ... i'll pay okay? I just want this mess to be over with. And then she forcefully told me, show me the screenshot that you paid it (the lack of trust was a needle through the heart).

I would tell her I'd unfortunately changed my mind, as I now don't have a job and have a few commitments coming up myself. That the court will likely be reasonable, and it would feel better to her not to be bailed out by her ex. Then go NC. Block your emails and phone. HK please nail the flamin' windows down and barricade the door if you have to. Hell I wish I lived close enough to bring you the nails

Look what contact with her has done to you so far. And now she wants a receipt! What the fruit-loop?

Because when we broke up, she said I had a lot of work ahead of me to make sure we would have a great friendship. Taking care of her issues, is a great sign of responsibility as an adult (why do I want to show her that I can live for myself?)... she says and this is what friends do (or should do), is what she says. She also said she really wanted to remain friends and she soo appreciated all the work i've done for her and also the lessons i've showed her in regards of love and intimacy as she got sexually and fysically abused with her previous boyfriend and I never touched her with any finger nor raged at her.

The main reason why I have not the guts to close it off is relatively simple, I am afraid that the moment I say no, she says, well, **** of then as she has threatened me many many times to cut me completely off her life, completely. And it's 'finally' over. As in completely over. That, i'm afraid off. Also because she calls me all out of a sudden or mails me then and says i'm an awesome person, will have an awesome life and that i'm just cool to hang out with.

And yes, seriously, I know, I re-read what I just wrote and again when I think about her, it's so freaking dysfunctional . I let friends slip because of her man! I let friends slip, I said to friends, sorry, can't meet tonight because (ex) wants a dinner or (ex) wants to see me tonight. I so, so soo regret it.

I just can't understand how someone wanted 1) marriage & kids now 2) wants nothing with you anymore within a short period. I simply from a rational point can't understand it.

You seem a great, intelligent, caring guy with his whole life ahead of him. Once you are through the worst of these times, you will look back and shake your head at how bad it was for you. This girl is only out for herself and you deserve better. Much, much, much, much better.

Seriously, thank you If I get through this, my god, seriously, if I get through this, well, I just don't feel confident enough YET to say I will get through this. But if I will, IF, i'll make sure i'll be 1) fixed mentally and 2) when and if possible help others, however maintaining my own boundaries and making sure I don't get lost in the journey of helping others.

I keep going to T and hopefully the tendencies to end will decrease. I still feel, even as of this point, 25th of March 2013, the prospect of ending it today still feels more relieving than to battle this way for years and years to come. I just keep making appointments to make sure that I have a 'must' somewhere in the future where i'm expected preventing me from doing something stupid.

[LuckyEscapee]

Big hugs to you HK. 

There is no right or wrong when it comes to getting through the BPD minefield, whatever works is a very personal thing, but please keep trying the things suggested here, keep trying till you find your path and it gets easier 

But the longer you hold open that door to her, the harder you will get kicked, that is when she can be bothered to even kick you. Paying her bills is above and beyond. You owe her nothing. You owe yourself everything.

I always think what would my best friend tell me? Why would I want less for myself than that?

If I was you, what would you be telling me? Then what would you wish for me?