How is it that BPDs can get away with smear campaigns

[onehoonose]

I was inspired by another posters thread about smear campaigns because that is what I am coping with right now. Here is my question... . what IS it about BPDs that they can convincingly get away with smear campaigns and they seem to get some level of support but if the rest of us criticize anyone WE are the bad guys.

Here is what I mean... . some years back Colorado State University (I believe) did a study that when you speak poorly about someone it tends to reflect badly on you rather than who you are speaking about. Which is fine, I can accept that bit of analysis and there is probably some justice in it. But somehow BPDs get away with their smear campaigns and seem to get the support they are seeking. To me, although it shouldn't matter, that is the most hurtful thing of all. They get the benefit of the doubt when they are the ones being malicious.

Anyone have any thoughts as to why this works for them? The only thing that even comes to mind is that they play the victim so well. But I would think otherw would tire of that quickly.

[Kwamina]

I think they get away with it because they put on a mask when other people are around. When I'm alone with my uBPD mother and/or uBPD older sister they often misbehave and rage like they're completely out of control. But when other people are present they never act like that so those people never see that side of them. I remember one of my mother's birthday parties, my cousin was really enjoying himself and told me that my mother is such a sweet person, sweetness was the only side of her that he had ever seen so he didn't know better. The evening before the party my mother had raged at me like a lunatic blamimg me for everything that she considered bad in her life. This side of her remains hidden to outsiders. People with BPD often have various masks, outsiders usually only see one of these masks and the close relatives are the only ones to see all of them.

[j4c]

 Not sure what my ex said about me after we split up but i can imagine it wouldnt have been at all complimentary! She is pretty intimidating, convincing and very believeable. Probably comes from years of compulsive lying to the point where she could represent her country if bullsh$tting ever becomes an Olympic sport!  

Her friends are a strange bunch, and for whatever reason they stick by her through every dramatic twist in her sad life & continue to feed her victim supply! Interestingly though, i found out that her so called 'buddies' arent as keen on my ex as they make out, as i heard a few of them dont like her but are fascinated by the continuous chaos in her life so they put up with her!

My honest opinion is pwBPD can only get away with their lies for so long if theyre living in the same town / small city before people get wise. Cry wolf type senario. Another tale i heard regarding my ex is that shes known to the police for making false allegations about previous boyfriends. Crazy when i think back to when i first met her when i believed butter wouldnt melt in her mouth!    

[chriskell]

Very thought provoking thread. I can only speak about my own uBPDm. She has had varying degrees of success with her smear campaigns. When I was 13, she divorced my father and engaged in a terrible smear campaign against him (to family, friends and in court). All her kids sided with her, largely because she had fostered an "us against him" relationship with us kids from birth. The interesting thing is that we grew up, realized she had problems and reconciled with our father. In my experience, most of her smear campaigns have not worked; this has caused her to escalate the accusations; and then, this has caused her to be less likely to be believed since the accusations become so unbelievable. The other thing that happens is that when she shares her smear campaign with someone for the first time, and they believe her, she gets confidence and shares more wild accusations, and then they begin to doubt her.

Every so often, I get a call from a friend telling me something like "your mom left me the strangest message." A few years ago an old friend from high school I hadn't talked to in years called and said my mom had been in her town and called for help sorting through some old belongings. My friend told me she had said I wouldn't help her, was very different since I married my husband, etc. My friend told me at first she was sad that I had changed so much, but by the third conversation my mom was talking about my husband being in the Irish mafia, so then she realized my mom had mental health issues. So, she called me expressing support and love for my struggles.

Also every so often, including right now, my mom decides to try to mess with my professional reputation (we live in the same town). I woke up early this morning in a panic over this, but then my husband walked me through all the reasons it will be okay. He's right and logically I know he is right, but it bothers me that she still can raise such fear in me. One lesson I have learned from the past is that I tend to want to get into it with her when she engages in a smear campaign, but this only causes her to be more aggressive in her tactics. If I ignore her, she calms down more quickly.

I'm sorry if your people seem to currently be successful in their smearing. I saw my mom succeed with this when she divorced my father and so sweetly played the victim and protector of abused children (my father never abused us). Fortunately for me, my mom has reached an age (68) and point where her mental instability is apparent to most people within a relatively short period of time. It wasn't always this way. I will never forget the unique pain I felt the first time I realized my mom was smearing me to other people. Sorry for your pain . . . .

[Sophie17]

I agree - this is a really thought provoking thread. I have been and currently am the victim of smear campaigns myself. I have talked with my therapist about this and how it makes me feel - he pointed out something that helps and I try to reflect on when I feel down about the successful smear campaigns.

Let's see if I can explain what I think he said: Unless I can read the mind of the "smearee" (the one who the BPD spreads the smears/lies to) then I really don't know what the smearee thinks. He cautioned me against inventing dialoge and to instead, be mindful of myself. He said for all I know, they could have tuned out when she was spreading these smear tactics and haven't given it another thought.

Yes, my unBPDMIL is successful sometimes, I know it - but like you said, chriskell, there is logic here that tells us "things" will be ok, regardless of this abuse and unfair treatment. The blame is both on the smearer and the smearee if the campaign is successful, which means I need to do a better job with boundaries (among other things!)

I am sorry for all of you who have felt this same pain. It is very hurtful and not right.

[mother in law]

I think my thread may be the one you are referring to. Maybe they get away with it because we as non BPDs find if we do  retaliate/try to put the situation right it escalates out of control like mine has and that if children are involved they become very confused and hurt and resolution of the problem never occurs. It  is  indeed frustrating that they never take responsibility for their actions which hurt many people.  I did ask the question though cause I am very worried about my son and  grandson as I cannot see any peace for any of us in the future because you cannot change the BPD.

[Louise7777]

I think they get away with it because they put on a mask when other people are around. When I'm alone with my uBPD mother and/or uBPD older sister they often misbehave and rage like they're completely out of control. But when other people are present they never act like that so those people never see that side of them. I remember one of my mother's birthday parties, my cousin was really enjoying himself and told me that my mother is such a sweet person, sweetness was the only side of her that he had ever seen so he didn't know better. The evening before the party my mother had raged at me like a lunatic blamimg me for everything that she considered bad in her life. This side of her remains hidden to outsiders. People with BPD often have various masks, outsiders usually only see one of these masks and the close relatives are the only ones to see all of them.

You are so right! I have been through the same too. Thats why I find hard to accept that they have "no control". They know when to rage (usually to family) so they keep a very nice image to outsiders.

[GeekyGirl]

There are some good points in this thread, and I agree that a high-functioning person with BPD knows how to project a healthy and positive image to others. That can help make a smear campaign more successful.

At the same time, I'm not sure if it's really "getting away" with smear campaigns. If you think about it, there are some definite repercussions, one of them being the damage done to the relationship with the subject of the smear campaign. At the time, the person launching the smear campaign may not consider that or care about it, but over time, it may come back to haunt him/her.

I also think that people are more perceptive than I give them credit for. People who know you well and know your mother can decide for themselves whether or not to buy into smear campaigns or criticism, and generally people understand that there are two sides to every story. We all know people who are constantly negative or critical; it's very likely that the people who consistently use smear campaigns are already perceived as overly critical.

[onehoonose]

@Mother In Law - yes yours was the one that got me to thinking ;>. I am sorry for you and everyone who posted who has been a victim of this. It hits a nerve with me because I've tried hard to treat them all decently. My crash course at the "University of Hard Knocks" on BPD shows me intellectually why it shouldn't bother me but my wiring to try to be a decent human being has yet to catch up with that.

One thought that keeps me afloat is that the people who can be influenced by this aren't the ones that are "real" in my world. These are people that I don't see very often or if at all. Still it makes me chafe to think how easy it is for BPDs to manipulate others opinions. In my case his folks always put on their best behavior for outsiders so their reputations don't necessarily take a hit. With mySIL some people get it with her and her antics.

This is one I ruminate on and I have to find a way to stop doing that. Thanks everyone for your thoughts ;>

[hithere]

It is simple, they actually believe the crazy things they say.

[TryingToLive]

Some really great points mentioned in this thread. I must admit, it is a relief to see that I am not the only one who has struggled with smear campaigns -- both against me and anyone who got too close to my uBPDm and I.

The pattern that I've noticed is that she tends to limit telling the smears to people who are not close enough to the target of it to know any better. She will say just enough that is believable, explain how much of a victim she was so the person feels sorry for her, then move on to the next person. She has gone as far as to rant to random people, like taxi drivers, about all of the people who have "wronged her." When it comes to joint friends of both, she will portray how much she wants to help the person she is smearing and how concerned she is for the person she is telling, in case the smeared person hurts them too. She makes it personal. She once sent my Pastor and a friend from church a message of panic, basically telling them I was acting out of character and that I had ran away and she was concerned I would either come back and hurt her or kill myself. She asked for them to pray because I was basically possessed and all this stuff. It ended in a friend calling the police to come check on our well-being! All I'd done is needed to go for a walk to de-stress a bit (the out of character behavior was largely because, at 22, I actually had a boyfriend and she couldn't accept it).

I've heard her call the police personally to smear people, as well, trying to press charges or do things like that. It gets pretty bad when she needs to prove to people that others are bad and justify her rightness.

From what I've noticed, however, the closer people get to her and the more frequent the smear campaigns, the less the believe... and the more they worry about her and I. They distance themselves. Then my mom blames ME for smearing her to everyone, causing them to doubt her and back away... . and she smears me to them all in return.

Endless cycle.

It's been driving me crazy. I'm sorry others have to go through this too.

[whereisthezen]

Kwamina got it right. BPD's get attention from so many people, many have friends that swear they are their BEST friend. They dont see their best friends rage, freak out, slander or habe tantrums thats only for partners and immediate family!

So they can get away with it but really it doesnt matter if you can get away from as much as possible and believe you are full of life and happiness to pursue. Good luck to you forget about the campaigns!

[onehoonose]

@Cristina I so agree with you. I struggle with the "they can't help themselves" idea. They seem to know how to try to control things to work in their favor (for a while anyway). I get that it is likely true that in the larger scope of things they may not be able to help themselves but in my heart of hearts I can't seem to accept that they are helpless regarding their behavior. Like any other human behavior, they are rewarded for it on some level so it continues to exist.

That is the crazy thing about BPD. I know at some level I should feel compassion for them, but they outrage my sensibilities so. For me, this is going to take some personal growth to accept.

[onehoonose]

@Trying to Live,

I think you hit the formula on the head. BPD's are nothing if not consummate actors. Probably because as one poster commented, they believe the lies they create. Acting as credibly as they can seems to be a tool in their arsenal. Sometimes it takes a really long time for it to catch up with them though. One of my husbands (ex) friends has gotten away with it over and over again. Same formula... . she doesn't like women unless she feels significantly above them in some way (how sick is that?) and for women she does see as being more "equal" she treats them like a threat and gets the rest of the (mostly male friends) in their particular clique to turn against them. There are some rather intelligent people in that group yet she transparently gets away with it over and over again.

I get a headache even thinking about BPDs... . it's like being trapped in a spider web that you just can't seem to brush off. Or to brush it off takes a lot of hard work and then often you are never 100% sure you did the right thing.

[mother in law]

This thread has made me feel so much better!. I too struggle with the fact they can control  themselves for friends etc but rage at their family. I do find it hard to come to terms with the statement they can't help it. I guess when you are on the receiving end of the smear campaign it does not seem right that they can keep on smearing with no means of sticking up for yourself. However  I do acknowledge confrontation leads to escalation. It takes a great deal of maturity to just walk away and sometimes that is hard to do.

[Ember]

I think what can make a smear campaign work is when it includes some truth and is told to the right audience.

For example: I work with seniors on estate planning and sorting out estates after someone has died.

In my experience caregivers in seniors homes usually condem the families for what they call dump and runs.  It is interesting how often the caregivers can't even hide their relief at the death of a difficult resident, but then turn around and judge the family for not being more involved.  It doesn't even matter if the kids have explained that they were abused growing up.   Caregivers generally see the parents as the victims and the adult kids are the bad guys.  So in this respect the smear campaign works - the seniors can truthfully say... . "everyone here thinks you are awful because you've abandoned me." 

While I do meet some really unpleasant family members, generally when I meet the 'horrible children' they are good people who just couldn't cope with more abuse.  I do try to reach out to them and without going into my personal history, let them know that I understand and accept that they did the best they could.

[shutout]

I have always had smear campaigns against me instigated by uBPDm and NDad for as long as I can remember.  I have always tried to defend myself to no avail.  It absolutely baffles me as to how they can seem so convincing for so long. 

My "parents" have smeared others and told their whacked out version of events, alienating several friends and family but they ALWAYS seem to get away with it.  They really get people to believe they are the ones that have been wronged!

It is sickening.

Last year I was diagnosed with breast cancer and my parents have created absolute hell for me - I am now estranged from my whole family due to their lies.  I have even been confronted by a family member my "parents" alienated and refused to speak to for 8 years!

I have tried to speak with them but they refuse to acknowledge what they have done and what they continue to do.  I have now cut off contact with them.  Occasionally there is a niggle from them (ie a text "just remember we love you"  ) but more so they appear to be gathering together all their former enemies to form the worlds best enabler troupe for validation.

It is like they are now trying to create a tight unity in the family without/despite me (I had previously tried to help my family to heal a huge rift between my parents/aunty and uncle).  Once I was diagnosed they were up their previously alienated butts so fast it wasn't funny.  I believe they probably made good with these family members because then they would possibly look too bad as there would be too many they weren't speaking to at one time.  I don't know.

I sincerely believe this is all planned and plotted for best effect - none of this is accidental - none at all.

Despite facing my own mortality I have to stop asking myself "WHY do they do this to me?" and move on.

 

[Louise7777]

I sincerely believe this is all planned and plotted for best effect - none of this is accidental - none at all.

Despite facing my own mortality I have to stop asking myself "WHY do they do this to me?" and move on.

 

Shutout, I completelly understand your situation and agree with you. One of my two BPDs had "enemies" that suddenly became best friends, when it suited her. No surprise here. I agree with u, its not accidental at all.

I hope you recover soon. Please take good care of yourself and stay away from them, they are just toxic people. Move on, stay with friends that can support you. We are here for you anyway. 

[Kwamina]

Shutout, I completelly understand your situation and agree with you. One of my two BPDs had "enemies" that suddenly became best friends, when it suited her. No surprise here. I agree with u, its not accidental at all.

This is one of the main reasons I stopped taking my mother and sister seriously. For years they've talked about how they despised certain people, they frequently raged at me to get rid of their anger but guess what? Since last year they are best friends with those people, they went to their former enemies house on numerous occasions and had them over at their place too.

[Louise7777]

Kwamina, I feel they have a "chameleonic" personality in some areas. As I see it, they use people and also see things in black and white... . So, as long as a particular person serves them, its ok. If it doesnt, she is blacklisted. But that can change again in the future.

From my experience, they need many people around, they need an entourage to attend their needs. I call it "Maria Antoinette´s syndrome". I see it clearly on both my BPDs relatives. Once they discard somebody, they add a new member, by playing the victim card or by constant flattering.

What amazes me the most is the ammount of people ready to be part of this group... .

[Kwamina]

Kwamina, I feel they have a "chameleonic" personality in some areas. As I see it, they use people and also see things in black and white... . So, as long as a particular person serves them, its ok. If it doesnt, she is blacklisted. But that can change again in the future.

From my experience, they need many people around, they need an entourage to attend their needs. I call it "Maria Antoinette´s syndrome". I see it clearly on both my BPDs relatives. Once they discard somebody, they add a new member, by playing the victim card or by constant flattering.

What amazes me the most is the ammount of people ready to be part of this group... .

I agree cristina! They definitely have a "chameleonic" personality, always wearing different masks with different people. Maybe the reason people (initially) like being part of their group is because of their black and white thinking. At first they idolize you and that feels good... . at least for a while. Then they start clinging and making unreasonable demands and when you resist or refuse, you're out! Just like that.

[Louise7777]

Spot on, Kwamina! People feel "chosen", "idolized" or "appreciated"... . Too bad they cant see the storm forming in the horizon.

[GeekyGirl]

That is true, Kwamina. One thing that my T told me is that my mother is terrified of having real relationships with people--she's cool with having acquaintances or casual friends, but once things get deep or beyond the superficial, she gets scared and pushes people away. When she feels threatened, she uses the smear campaigns and/or silent treatment to make it look like the other person is the offending party.

That's why I don't think that the smear campaigns tend to work for long-term, though. For the short term, the campaigner gets the validation that he/she wants and the emotional distance that he/she is looking for from the campaign target, but in the end, the campaigner either isolates the campaign recipients or makes amends with the campaign target. It's sort of like an emotional sugar rush, IMO--a smear campaign works for only so long before it runs out of steam.

[Kwamina]

That is true, Kwamina. One thing that my T told me is that my mother is terrified of having real relationships with people--she's cool with having acquaintances or casual friends, but once things get deep or beyond the superficial, she gets scared and pushes people away. When she feels threatened, she uses the smear campaigns and/or silent treatment to make it look like the other person is the offending party.

Hi GeekyGirl,

This sounds just like my mother. She's totally unable to handle anything real. Just like she's totally unable to deal with stress. When things start to get real my mom starts to get stressed out of her mind.

That's why I don't think that the smear campaigns tend to work for long-term, though. For the short term, the campaigner gets the validation that he/she wants and the emotional distance that he/she is looking for from the campaign target, but in the end, the campaigner either isolates the campaign recipients or makes amends with the campaign target. It's sort of like an emotional sugar rush, IMO--a smear campaign works for only so long before it runs out of steam.

I think you're right when it's merely a smear campaign. But I've seen my mother take it a step further, not only smearing but instigating fights/bitter arguments between people (like her own children). Even when these people find out my mother has been lying, so much harm has been done by the fighting that the relationship gets soured. Basically all relationships get soured so in that sense the smear campaign has failed but in the process a whole lot of damage has been done.

[Clearmind]

Anyone have any thoughts as to why this works for them? The only thing that even comes to mind is that they play the victim so well. But I would think otherw would tire of that quickly.

Borderlines are adept at knowing who their allies are. The allies want to believe it - it says more about them than it does about the pwBPD.

I believe it’s natural to believe for a period of time – until enough data is collected to dispute it otherwise.

As kids we also believed or trusted that their word was gospel – it’s what kids do. As adults we now have the capability to use the data to decide for ourselves whether it’s the truth or not.

Onehoonose, have you been the subject of a recent smear campaign?

[healinghome]

i'm no stranger to smear campaigns.  BPDm alienated me from my entire family (immediate and extended) when i was 14yrs old, when i didn't get on with her NPD boyfriend.  its taken me years to work out why and even longer to start to heal the effects of it.

something i have found is that empathy and compassion takes energy.  ever been in counselling and noticed how exhausting it is, when all you've supposedly done is talk?  when energy isn't being directed towards the heart or has been cut off, the mind gets all of it.  the problem with that is that mind is corruptable, as we see with mental/emotional disorders. so while nons are thinking with 50% of their energy and feeling with the other 50%, BPDs are using 100% for their minds and 0% on compassion/understanding for others. 

which means that while their mind energy has been corrupted, its still capable of thinking 50% more than nons. hence our confusion because we can't keep up with them.  the solution?  don't.  remember that you are in the position of being able to feel compassion/empathy while they are stuck in their minds.

[SadWifeofBPD]

They're very good about smearing using "bits of truth" so the story seems real.  They'll "build" on some aspect that their listeners will believe.  For instance, my H's family thought I was a rich, snobby girl from Calif.  So, now that he's smearing me, he tells them that I thought that they were "lower class" and trashy. 

[XL]

I had an epiphany on this:

I think subconsciously they know they're wrong. They know they blew up and embarrassed themselves by being too emotional, and they know they said hurtful things. The smear campaign is a form of damage control, to soothe their own mind. They rewrite their version of the event so they can live with themselves. It's easier to feel persecuted than to feel guilt.

I think there's a lack of ability to accept blame or criticism. They can't genuinely apologize or reflect on their misdeeds. I've seen that mental wheel fail to turn, in that my mother won't let ME apologize for MY wrongs. If I say I was wrong and hurt someone, she counters with a speech about how I'm perfect.

[XL]

I also don't think they can judge how to fairly divide blame. I've seen this with my mom's bosses. One lady actually was a poor boss with poor social skills, and some unethical business dealings. My mother couldn't look at the situation like "Mary was 75% a bad boss, but I was also 25% a bad employee."

There has to be a 100% winner and loser. The smear campaign reinforces the black and white thinking. They have to build up a persecution myth to reinforce that the situation was clear-cut, and that their understanding of it was correct.

Life is rarely a clear cut case of right and wrong, and they have a disability where they can't think like that.

Edit:

I also wonder if this is what causes the never-ending arguments? Ending an argument demands a concession from both sides. I was wrong to do x, you were wrong to do y, we're both sorry and the argument is over.

I've been in horrific cyclical arguments that just couldn't end. She'd demand the terms (that the other person was 100% wrong, and agreed to do things her way) and couldn't stop. She had to win the argument in totality in her terms (usually insane terms that didn't make sense anyway), and would become enraged at attempts to concede and end the madness.

Is the biggest problem here the rock solid division of Black:White? Is that where the disability is happening? They can't conceptualize a scenario of blended blame?

[SadWifeofBPD]

Anyone have any thoughts as to why this works for them? The only thing that even comes to mind is that they play the victim so well. But I would think otherw would tire of that quickly.

Borderlines are adept at knowing who their allies are. The allies want to believe it - it says more about them than it does about the pwBPD.

I believe it’s natural to believe for a period of time – until enough data is collected to dispute it otherwise.

As kids we also believed or trusted that their word was gospel – it’s what kids do. As adults we now have the capability to use the data to decide for ourselves whether it’s the truth or not.

Onehoonose, have you been the subject of a recent smear campaign?

I agree with the above, especially the BOLDED part.   

Those with BPD will often smear you with people who don't really have much access to the truth or to people that have their own agenda.  My H's brother has an agenda that he WANTS my H to fail, but H doesn't realize it.  BIL has always been jealous of my H because BIL has his own disorders that won't allow him to work even tho he has a PhD.  BIL has extreme anxiety which won't allow him to even spend much/any time outside of the home.  BIL is also quite unattractive.  When my H first mentioned divorce to my BIL, BIL immediately was 100% for it and kept pushing for it.  This is odd because typically family members will want to save a marriage, but BIL is the biggest cheerleader of divorce.  My sister, a T, has told me that as soon as the divorce goes thru, H's brother will likely drop most contact with H because he'll have gotten what he wanted, his brother's failure. 

The rest of H's audience for the smear campaign are people that I've never met... .   mostly co-workers or his shrink. 

Years ago, H's first T said that he wanted to meet me because of all the crazy things H said about me.  After a few meetings where H yelled at me, called me names, and interrupted me constantly, H's T said, "your wife is nothing like you've described, and YOU are much different than when you're alone in my office.  Before, during meetings, you'd be calm and pleasant.  Around your wife, you're a bully and you're very needy."   H got very upset, mostly at being called "needy" since that isn't very masculine.  That was the T that first Dx'd him with BPD.  I don't think he ever would have gotten that Dx if the T had never met me.  The T admitted that he had a totally different opinion prior to these couples meetings.