Feelers ?

[wanttoknowmore]

After silent treatment and intense raging for 3 weeks and resenting my text contacts and shutting me out, I just noticed that she changed her FB cover photos and put pictures of the gifts I gave on Christmas of 2011. Also, wearing the attire I gifted that christmas. What does this mean? She knows

that I check her FB. Is it a way to lure me back so that she can rage more and insult me more OR

its her way to say I am sorry and I miss those good days when we were so happy together?

She is waif type. Should I continue NC until she reaches out directly? I dont want more verbal abuse.

[blecker]

Who knows what play she is planning to act out.

But it is certain she wants you in the theater.

Now, do you buy the ticket or not?

[Kwamina]

It's probably a bit of both. I don't think she's really sorry but she might be thinking about the past and miss the good times you've had. This is probably her way of dealing with her emotions as a result of those memories. She probably thinks you will reach out again after seeing this, but changing her photos to me does not equate to being sorry. To me this seems like a way of manipulating you in reaching out to her again, without her actually apologizing for what she's done. If I were you I'd continue NC, if she's really sorry she should reach out in a more mature manner.

[mitchell16]

mine did this exact same thing once with her fb on one of our many breaks. up she changed her Fb picture to a picture that I had taken of her hand in some water on a trip we went on. I had been staying steady on NC at they time. She had shut down her facebook page prior to this break up. Out of nowhere she open her facebook page and posted that picture. Of course in my mind it made me think that she was being sad, lonely and remincining about us. It worked I contacted her a few days later and the recycle continiued. and she didnt have to put herself out for rejecting, she could say (and she did) that I was the one who got her back that she didnt want us back togther but I talked her into. She got all control without risking any of her feelings. This was all before I ever heard of BPD.

[wanttoknowmore]

thanks blekker,kwamina and michell for your perspective. nI was wondering how much control do they have on their behavior when they are heavily dysregulated. This ugly side of her I never saw in last two years. These 3 weeks I saw so uncharacteristic of her... extreme fear of engulfment and sudden pushing me away. It caught me by surprize. I dont care if she say sorry or not but what I want is no more abusive behavior. I think I agree that continuing NC will give her some insight that she cant rage and scream without consequences. Funny... . now she is posting pictures posing with her girlfriends enjoying an outing in nice place... no man in the pictures only her close girlfriends.

Is it a message that ... . listen... I am not with any guy... I am happy with my girlfriends? Will anyone try to interpret and help me understand meaning of these new pictures.

By the way,michell ... was it a good idea for you to contact her or it would have been better to continue NC and let her reach out in direct manner?

[mitchell16]

honestly You may not want to hear this but I didnt matter because it repeated itself again about 2 months later over some oterh issue. That time I went NC and waited on her. She did reach out, recycled again. started back up and guess what It happend again only about 6 weeks later. again NC, she reached out, I responded and once again recycle. Only to happen again. In know  weeks NC and she has attempted contact 3 times and I have resisted it and stayed NC but its been hard. But what I guess Im saying I feel I have tried everything, NC, her call, me call, chase, dont chase, talk, write, argueing, therapy, ignoring and in the end it was the same results. Im not sayings its easy and maybe yours is diffrent then mine (high functioning) and she works in the therapy field herself. You would think she would know better to get some help. But after 2 years I have lost so much of myself in this relationship and Im still came up short. I wish you luck.

[wanttoknowmore]

Michell.

Mine is high functioning too. In last 2 years, I didnot have bad experience. This is first major episode.

I learnt a lot about BPD and now, i hope I might be able to handle it better. I feel like giving one more try as there is a lot of good about her when she is not dysregulated.

How long was your r/s? Did the dysregulation episodes became worse with time or stayed the same?

[Louise7777]

Who knows what play she is planning to act out.

But it is certain she wants you in the theater.

Now, do you buy the ticket or not?

LOL. Thats my approach to them from now on. Thanks! 

[mitchell16]

its was two years. yes, its got worse the longer the r/s went on. The peaceful times got shorter and shorter. Since dec. to about 4 weeks ago she broke up with or pushed me away with NC four times. thast alot. Last years it was about 6 or so the whole year. see the diffrence. She had promised about everything that could be promised to get it going again. and I was always willing and happy to do so. But its just never stooped. The straws was after she agreeded she needed therapy and told me to make the appointment. She went once, they gave her homework to do books and stuff. She never fiished the homework, got drunk made a scene in public. cursed at me and the told me she was done with therapy and done with me. I walked away. attempted contact. she told me she was done and did want to to talk to me anymore. I stopped talking to her. She has attempted 3 contacts and  Im still NC. I havent heard anything in about 3 days from her. But I have to asked myself, what would really be diffrent this time then the other times. Nothing.  I to once I figured it out it BPD wanted to learn as much as I could. I tried commucation skills and numerous diffrent approaches and I still always came up short. Maybe I wasnt good  at them I dont know. But it seemed no matter what I tried, It never worked or if it did it was just for a short period of time. Like I said I wish you luck. These boards have helped me alot but more for helping myself. Becasue nothing i tried for her worked.

[findingmyselfagain]

Mine just wiped me clean from her FB. Any evidence of us as a couple. Who knows what is going through her head? I also saw 90% of the poor behavior after our wedding shower. We didn't marry... . thank goodness! I helped her raise her daughter for nearly a year and was basically her "daddy." I couldn't imagine how anyone could back out of something that seemed so strong at one time. That's when I learned about BPD. Sometimes these relationships "work out" but many times it is just extreme co-dependency. I tried to be friendly but I was either ignored for months, or she was somewhat friendly, or she went off the deep end. The last time she went off the deep end I called it! I was a very good mate and deserve a very good mate. So why did we go after the pwBPD is the real question? Why don't we feel we deserve someone healthier and NICER? Mine wasn't high functioning but was an expert at the poor me facade. Pity and guilt do not equal healthy love. Lesson learned!

[Kwamina]

Funny... . now she is posting pictures posing with her girlfriends enjoying an outing in nice place... no man in the pictures only her close girlfriends.

Is it a message that ... . listen... I am not with any guy... I am happy with my girlfriends? Will anyone try to interpret and help me understand meaning of these new pictures.

By the way,michell ... was it a good idea for you to contact her or it would have been better to continue NC and let her reach out in direct manner?

I grew up with two uBPD relatives and I've learned (the hard way) that there's no point trying to find the logic in what they do since there basically is no logic in their behavior. For us 'normal' people it's very difficult and maybe even impossible to understand what goes on inside a BPD's head, these people are wired in a completely different way. My advice would be to try not to give all those fb pics too much thought, I would just stop looking at them.

[SadWifeofBPD]

After silent treatment and intense raging for 3 weeks and resenting my text contacts and shutting me out, I just noticed that she changed her FB cover photos and put pictures of the gifts I gave on Christmas of 2011. Also, wearing the attire I gifted that christmas. What does this mean? She knows

that I check her FB. Is it a way to lure me back so that she can rage more and insult me more OR

its her way to say I am sorry and I miss those good days when we were so happy together?

She is waif type. Should I continue NC until she reaches out directly? I dont want more verbal abuse.

My sister is a T, and when I asked her questions like this, she would "nicely reprimand" me and tell me to stop being "on the defensive" reacting to whatever BPDH was doing.  She told me that I needed to be in control of my life rather than waiting/reacting to whatever signs, messages, etc that H is giving me.  That is giving him way too much control, control that he doe NOT deserve to have.

You're not married to this person, move on.  If I had had any clue that my H was mentally ill while dating, I would have moved on. 

[Louise7777]

Hi Sadwife! Your sister is soo right! We usually react to them and that turns out to be a big problem. I remember everybody backing off during the rage attacks, now I see we were reinforcing the bad behaviour. We let her have things her way to avoid the terrible tantrums and it only made it worse and worse... .

I suggest, if possible, run and never look back!

[SadWifeofBPD]

Hi Sadwife! Your sister is soo right! We usually react to them and that turns out to be a big problem. I remember everybody backing off during the rage attacks, now I see we were reinforcing the bad behaviour. We let her have things her way to avoid the terrible tantrums and it only made it worse and worse... .

I suggest, if possible, run and never look back!

Exactly.  The more I've learned about how H was raised, he was very much indulged by his mom who wanted to avoid his outbursts as much as possible.  When he made up his Bday and Xmas lists, he was given EVERY little thing on the list (even tho he came from a large family).  I'm sure his mom was trying to avoid any outbursts.  H also says that his mom NEVER said no to him... . ever.  She always gave him whatever he wanted. 


H likes to brag that he was the one who "dumped" his previous girlfriends, but in truth, the GFs likely weren't waiting on him hand and foot, so he moved on.  In my mind, they really "dumped" him because they weren't willing to do things his way all the time.  I did meet one girl that dumped him after a couple of dates, H hated her because of that.  She probably picked up on his disorder because her own father had a PD.  I wish I had had such insight. 

[wanttoknowmore]

This is here first ever dysregulation in 2 years and I am ambivalent whether I should give her one more chance. The reason I check her FB is to find out what she is doing... if I get clue that she has someone else then it will be so easy for me to move on. But, she is giving opposite clues... . new FB cover with gifts and dress given as gifts by me over a year ago... pics of her with her girlfriends who I knew etc. No signs of any change from past and that is keeping me on hold. I am continuing with full NC until I know the new reality.

Why she would put pictures connected to me in some way if she doesnot want to contunue r/s with me? Why she is still giving me full access to me to her FB account?

[laelle]

What are you giving her a chance at exactly?  To be normal?

[wanttoknowmore]

I want to give a chance to get understanding why she is so unhappy due to her continuous push pull dynamics and then trying to repair the damage.

Also, insight about the fact that changing guys is not ultimate solution as this same cycle will repeat with each of the next guy.

I know this will be a herculian task. My only hope is that she trusted me and respected me enough for two years that if I am very caring and gentle and extremely patient ,she might slowly be able to accept that it is a disorder.

I want her to heal atleast partially from this disorder. She is in total denial.

She is scared as she texted me before going ST that "I have shared so much with you about me and my family that I feel afraid and I will never ever share my personal life and family situation with anyone else in the future."

I might try someone who doesnot know about my past to be safe.

How do I know if she has someone else or this was a dysregulated persons rant? Her FB pics are sending contrary messages as she is posting pictures of our good times and the gifts and dresses I bought for her.  But she doesnot contact me... is she waiting for me to make contact? what will be consequences of me contacting her first?

[Louise7777]

Its not an herculean task, its a lost case. Sorry.

[wanttoknowmore]

cristina,

why she is sending indirect FB messages to possibly wanting me to contact her. Pics are being posted by her now when we were in our best times.

Is this to beat me down further or to reconnect and try again to relive the beautiful past.

[Louise7777]

WantToKnowMore, I cant answer u, I can only assume. Anyway Ill add my 2 cents and also ask you questions.

Why is it so important to you to know her intentions? What about YOUR feelings, YOUR actions, YOUR goals?

It can be to beat you down further (revenge) or to reconnect (so you can be manipulated by her again). Neither of the 2 is good for you.

You mention "best times" and "beautiful past". Its normal to look at the "good times" after a break up, but from the distance I feel you are still in denial, theres no such a thing as beautiful past or best times with a BPD... .

As somebody said in some other show: shes putting a play on the stage, the question is will u buy tickets?

[Kwamina]

I know this will be a herculian task. My only hope is that she trusted me and respected me enough for two years that if I am very caring and gentle and extremely patient ,she might slowly be able to accept that it is a disorder.

I want her to heal atleast partially from this disorder.

I understand your desire to help her, you've known her for a long time so it must hurt seeing her act this way. The problem with trying to rescue someone wit BPD is, that often you'll get lost in the process and end up being the one needing the rescuing. BPD's are able to completely suck you in, if you're not careful you'll end up focusing all your energy on saving her instead of investing in your own life. It's good to point certain things out to people, hopefully they'll pick it up and start bettering their lives. But this ultimately is their own decision, you can't make people with BPD change if they don't want to. It seems like you're going around in circles trying to answer the 'why' of her behavior. In reality however I don't believe there is an answer to this question that can ever satisfy you, any rationale for her behavior is in essence irrational.

[SadWifeofBPD]

Please get away from her. 

I wish someone had warned me with my H.  I was so young and naive that I didn't understand the red flags that were waving.

When he was very unreasonable about an issue around the 6 month mark in our early relationship, my brother wrongly advised me that "well, no one is perfect. Every relationship will have issues."  At the time, my younger sister (now a T) was only a young undergrad, so not yet trained with insight (She is 7 years younger than me). 

My family had NO experience with mental illness, so none of us were "clued in" to any signs that were present during H and my dating years.  And since H's family lived out of state, I didn't have much access to them to learn about how H was as a child. 

[laelle]

They will destroy you in an effort to save themselves.  It doesnt matter how many chances you give her, she is mentally ill.  Your asking a duck to bark and she will fail because she cant.  At the very least spend some time on the staying board if you havent already and learn Radical Acceptance and some of the other tools that can give you a clear view what you are up against and help you in your endeavor.

She wont stop doing what she is doing, but you can control how you react to it.  Its the best you will get out of this.

good luck to you.

[wanttoknowmore]

Laelle,

Her not responding to my contact hurts my self esteem and I never felt this weak in the past... I wonder why I cant be the confident decisionmaker I was in the past. My head says I should move on... but my heart doesnot want to move on. Today, my heart won and I broke 10 days NC by texting her .As usual... no response and more hurt. I feel like I am stuck because of her mixed responses... Positive clues on FB and then,not responding when I text/call. She is not even saying its over.

What game is she playing and what does she want to achieve?

[laelle]

We all feel that way.  The addiction we have for them is likened to a heroin addiction.  Thats pretty tough stuff.  Instead of looking to her, look into your issues.  What were you getting out of this relationship that makes it so hard to let go of?   The reason we get involved with these one sided relationships has alot to do with our own FOO issues.

I know how it feels when you reach out and get ignored.  You are giving her all the control.  You have control of you, not her.

She isnt taking it from you, you are giving it away.  I know that I dont think I deserve to be treated badly.  What about you?

Read the posts on the staying board as well as the lessons, its vital in helping you get you back.

[wanttoknowmore]

Laelle,

I have  been trying to think about FOO and cant find any major problem. I was very loved and happy child raised by loving grandparent until age 12 as parents were busy earning money in big city. I have fond memories of chilhood. Always top grades in my class loved by my teachers. Achieved honor rolls and did very well in college. Never dated a pwBPD. This is first experience and I am surprised the way I got hooked. Thats not like me.

She has been very loving, caring and fulfilling friend and I was very happy for almost 2 years. Now, I recall she did some minor push pull earlier which got worse and worse in last 6 months culminating in ST/raging. I saw her raging at her son but I thought she was just angry. I really want to detach as it is bad for me. I have so much good going on in my life. Why I am stuck and cant move? I never before gave this kind of power to anyone. What it is about her? I feels angry being devalued like this. I know I dont deserve it. I must liberate myself but dont know how? Today, I asked her to block me from her phone and FB but she has not done it.

[laelle]

Have you read all the lessons from the staying, undecided and leaving boards?  You will learn so much about yourself and your ex from them.

Save yourself a bit of grief and speed your healing.   

[SadWifeofBPD]

Sounds like your FOO is one of stability and everyone sticks together.  That's how mine was.  The problem with that kind of FOO is that we're not used to "discarding" people.  Once you're in the family, you're in.  No rejections.  

My family is a very large, loving family with very few divorces... . very few!  And we have no alcoholism or mental illnesses except for one SIL (one of my bro's is dealing with a wife that seems BPD, but not as awful as my H).  So, we're not used to "walking away" because we aren't used to having marriages fail.   We're also the type to "pull together" whenever anyone has an illness (cancer, etc).

So, if you're from a similar type of family where people support and help each other, then "walking away" can seem counter-intuitive.  

That said, you have to get away.  You do not want to be me, in my mid-50s, and trying to get out of a marriage without total financial devastation.  I am blessed to have two adult sons who've promised to help me get thru this, but I don't want to become a burden to them.  

Plus, if you want future children, do this for THEM.  They deserve a healthy mother.  The mother is the more influential parent in a child's life.  As much as I tried to keep my H an arms-length away from our kids, he still "hurt" the family.  My kids emerged successful because of my efforts, but even with those efforts, they still have scars/memories of H's horrible rages.  They didn't deserve that.   I can't imagine how our kids would be if I had been the mentally-ill parent.  

Also, parenting with a BPD parent is facing life-long conflicts.  Because of H's immaturity, his "fall back" position in regards to parenting decisions was always, "what is easiest for HIM."  Well, as a real parent, that can't be the fall back position.     For him, "parenting" meant putting the kids in front of a TV, so he could do what he wanted.  The few times I left him with our kids while I ran errands, I usually returned to a huge mess because H would be watching TV while the kids were allowed to get into stuff.  There would be toothpicks all over the floor, food spilled everywhere, toys everywhere, Q-tips spilled, etc.  One time I came home and our 2 year old had cut his own hair (ugh).  H didn't even know it because he had been watching sports and had no idea where the kids were or what they were doing.   After that, I didn't leave him alone with the kids until THEY could be trusted not to get into stuff.  

I can't tell you how many arguments we had that were simply "his stupid parenting ideas" vs mature parenting.  His ideas for "punishments" were so ridiculous that I had to drag him to a T who promptly told him that his discipline methods were just plain wrong.  

So, do yourself and your future children a favor and find yourself a healthy woman.  




What is Radical Acceptance?  Is there a link for that?

[laelle]

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=89910.0

radical acceptance

[wanttoknowmore]

Laelle,

I am so thankful to you for this insightful analysis. It just clarified something so important to me. I come from a large family where there is no concept of walking away or breaking up even if there are big disagreements. They just dont believe in walking away. So my concept of r/s is that once we have a bond of any kind,its forever whether we are living together or not. Sudden completely discarding I have never seen in my life except in this r/s. I feels like failure. And, now I believe BPD runs in her family

based on her disclosures like her other sister had 4 marriages with one  with leader of a criminal organisation, lots of legal battles with her past husbands and arrests for money laundering,fraud and embezzling govt funds etc. Other sister is a lesbian and emotionally very volatile with multiple chaotic love relations. Her mother had a dramtic life and in last years of her life, her janitor was her last boyfriend as she discarded all good boyfriends.

My  pwBPD,s adult daughter had sudden rupture of her r/s with her b.f who she was very intimate with . She painted him darki saying he has no money and bought a car on loan so he is dumb. Her adult son, she suspects may be gay as he doesnot date any girls and keep shaving his head,coloring hairs in different colors, exercises all day long,dropped out of college. Wow... . lots of signs of BPD in the family and lots of drama. Her sisters children are alcoholics drug addicts and sue their own mother.But, my pwBPD is compassionate ,does lots of community service,liked by her girlfriends, very good in her profession but I clearly see other BPD symptoms. She has no criminal record and is in helping profession.She once told me she wants to marry a very wealthy 75+ years old man so when he dies she will be richer. She already has over a million dollars in savings.

Your analysis is so meaningful. It explains why I feel like a failure as I couldnot keep this r/s alive in some form ... atleast as a good friend. It explains my abandonment fear too as failure of any  r/s equals some lack of effort or inadequacy  on my part. Also, I was never rejected by any loved one so this feels like devastating blow to my self esteem. Thank you very much Laelle.